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00:12
Twitter’s head of product continues to have the life expectancy of a Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher at Hogwarts
@rightfold What does it do
@jaggedSpire sup bby <3
@Borgleader enjoying life, making soup. You? <3
@jaggedSpire Ate soup, enjoying twitch.tv :P
00:20
@Borgleader :D
01:10
@Borgleader Definitely a better idea than trying to eat twitch.tv as you enjoy your soup.
lrio is so washed-up lol
Okay well since I asked for a proof from the C++11 standard on a question tagged language-lawyer, and you flat out refuse to provide that specifically, and go so far as to berate me for asking for it, I must conclude that you have no intention of answering the question. If you like, I can ping you if I ever ask the same question about C++17, then you can post this answer there. Cheers. — Lightness Races in Orbit 2 mins ago
Hahahahaha
he downvoted my answer :D :D
What a god
I need a way to name a Function and a FunctionType
Right now I call the type Function,
and I call the definition of one a FunctionDefinition
user784668
@Columbo Par for the course.
01:31
> Il faut flexibiliser la révolution !
cc camarade @GundolfGundelfinger
01:43
@LucDanton Resilient revolutions resolve reliably!
@GundolfGundelfinger another French webcomic, another horrible and impossible to navigate website NSFW here, found via this
02:02
@LucDanton La CGT organise des cours de yoga entre deux grèves ?
Also I just realised in horror that Eric Lippert now works at Facebook, but that gives me a good comeback against people who would try to blame me for working in finance.
@LucDanton Je regarde après le boulot du coup
@GundolfGundelfinger ouais c’est sale
02:41
If shared_ptr::unique() returns true does that mean it's actually a unique_ptr?
user784668
@StackedCrooked No, it's an auto_ptr.
Ah. Good old auto_ptr.
user784668
03:01
Nice.
backwards_pointer
user784668
I manually vectorized some piece of code and now it runs slower.
Compared to automatic vectorization?
user784668
Compared to scalar code.
There is really good chance you did it wrong, although it might be a reasonable question for the SO website proper.
user784668
03:10
There's also a really good chance that AVX doesn't really like permutations.
user784668
The inner loop uses vpermq 130 times.
Biggest laugh I've had on SO so far: H.G's reply to this question.
@Fanael easy mistake to make, that is actually a haircare instruction
user784668
@LucDanton I have this 12×64 input [x0, x1, x2, …, x11] loaded into three registers. How do I extract [x7, x9, x1 x6] out of that?
otoh that is a hairy situation
user784668
03:17
Yeah.
user784668
Currently I use the obvious, i.e. vpermq + vpblendd.
user784668
Scalar code doesn't need to do this shit, it just reads a different register or stack slot or whatever.
user784668
Latency of vpermq is what, 3 cycles?
user784668
No wonder AVX code does 1.2 instructions per cycle.
user784668
OTOH scalar code achieves over 3.
03:27
Often the best performance improvements are obtained when relaxing requirements.
Just give up :P
It doesn't really need to be fast. Neither does it need to be correct. Or useful.
^ All problems solved.
user784668
hahaha wat
user784668
When compiled as 32-bit, the vectorized code stays about the same.
user784668
But scalar code is 5 times worse.
user784668
All two people who have a Haswell or newer and a 32-bit OS will be delighted, I guess?
A better troll would have told you to use a GPU
user784668
03:42
@Mikhail That's an option.
user784668
But there's no way in hell I'm going to implement that.
CUDA/OCL is way easier than x86 vectorization
idk, I've always wanted an excuse to use the halide language in my program.
@Fanael are you on 32-bit?
user784668
@StackedCrooked No, -m32
@Fanael latency has nothing to do with CPI. the processor will overlap multiple dependency chains. it has an effect only if you exceed the reorder buffer capacity
which is about 192 instructions or so on a modern processor
if the output of one iteration is the input to the next, then sure, it is one giant dependency chain and it matters
user784668
03:57
@doug65536 It is.
can you split it into multiple separate dependency chains and combine at the end?
i.e. instead of a+b+c+d+e+f+g+h do A=a+b, C=c+d, E=e+f, G=g+h, then funnel them down A+=C, E+=G, A+=E
+ is just an example to convey they idea
user784668
No.
that would allow more overlap
@Fanael Well then fix that first :P
(If possible, of course.)
user784668
@StackedCrooked It's a hash function. Running the rounds in parallel is not exactly easy.
04:09
Ask Intel to add an instruction for it on their next CPU.
@Fanael how much data at once? sounds like you'd be bound by memory access more than instruction latency
are you measuring and seeing what the actual bottleneck is?
user784668
@doug65536 Yes.
I don't know if hash functions are inherently bad at ILP. It's something I've wondered about before.
user784668
49 mins ago, by Fanael
OTOH scalar code achieves over 3.
yeah, 3 instructions that do less. that do 1/4 the work, probably. but yeah, shuffling sucks
user784668
04:16
@doug65536 I strongly doubt that 1 GB of data per second is anything close to memory bound.
well, "memory" includes more than pure access-the-ram-chips time. it also includes coherency overhead, TLB miss, TLB shootdown, page fault due to memory mapped input file, and stuff like that
user784668
@doug65536 And none of these even show up on the profile.
@StackedCrooked Well, some are bad at ILP by design. I think there's no reason one can't be designed to be good at ILP.
Shit.
My grammar is utterly ambiguous when it comes to type qualifiers.
const& int // constant int
const& int[] // constant... int array? Or constant int ref, array...?
C++ solves this problem by saying you can't have an array of references
Which means the only thing you can make an array out of is pointers, which is a post-type decorator.
I could make it so [] can be pre-tagged,
and make that pre-tagging greedy
const& int const& []
Goodness gracious that's ugly as all hell.
int const&[]
By itself doesn't look too horrifying.
user784668
04:32
@ThePhD Then don't use C-style declarators.
Can your references be rebound?
user784668
They're the worst fucking thing.
user784668
Except for all other parts of C.
@Fanael My stuff looks like var x : ( type name here )
So var x : const int& is a ref to an int.
user784668
@ThePhD So what's the problem?
04:33
And just var x = ... is type deduction.
@Fanael My grammar expands on the left side currently. const& const& int [] is what constify-refs the integer, then constify-refs the array.
But that's ambiguous to a parser.
@MarkGarcia Haven't tackled that: answer is "No unless you use the Magic Function™" currently.
user784668
@ThePhD Magic Function™? How did you implement do_what_i_mean?
@Fanael rebind( dest, src )
I think I might introduce syntax for that but that's later.
@ThePhD if you have to use rebind then how is the array const? doesn't that mean you are mutating the array reference?
it means a const reference to an array of const int references?
@doug65536 fun rebind ( dest : &T, src : &T ) : void { ... }
idk if that is less confusing than how C does it
04:46
It probably isn't less confusing.
I think I see what you are trying to do there... like pointers but you can't ++ them off into nowhere land and it can range check, and aliasing is obvious to the compiler.
Right. There's no nullptr, and all references must be initialized to something that exists (checked by the compiler).
This means, though, that I need my type qualifiers (const and ref) to play nice with the array syntax too, which is... harder than I thought.
05:03
does anyone know how to use preview on macbook well?
I am trying to put a signature on the form, however there is already a text field there
the signature keeps on going into the background not foreground
it only goes into background whenever the form is re-opened :/
err, I can't delete it when it goes into background either
05:36
Buh. Function types are even harder to do.
fun my_func ( a: int ) : int { ... }
var func_p : (int)int = my_func ?
lol, just go back to C
@ThePhD You could perhaps use => or something other than : for the return type
@MarkGarcia Why is : bad here?
@ThePhD For the function declaration/definition, it's not. But when you want it consistent with your variable declaration syntax...
Ah. So (int)int should be (int):int ?
Or maybe I can drop the : from the function declaration type.
After all, nothing else goes between ) and the opening {.
06:02
Here is why @rightfold never finishes his projects:
06:44
Sup loungers
07:13
...after spending a whole day in front of monitor..
07:27
you are still in front of monitor?
 
2 hours later…
user1804599
09:20
@набиячлэвэли return a setter that appends
user1804599
@ThePhD stop bikeshedding get to the implementation
@rightfold You act like I'm not doing that right now and currently have a semi-working impl.
user1804599
> semi
performance vise which is better : if or if-else
13
Beep boop.
What kind of question is that.
What kind of hardcore code are you writing that you need to debate between the intricacies of if and if-else
09:30
Lol
v. hardcore code
Actually this is not my question
My calleague asked me this
Hint: if you were working on something important you'd dump a tiny bit of assembly from GCC or Clang or VC++ and see they're literally the same.
I replied that there will be no effect on performance
They're also semantically the same, so unless your compiler is new and/or stupid they'd generate virtually the same code no matter what.
That is: compiler writers are -- unless we're talking about PHP or Javascript -- not that retarded.
09:33
Do you mean PHP and javascript compiler will have difference between them?
Javascripts inliner (used to?) count comments as statements / lines and v8 would trash or accept an inline based on that.
PHP is.... PHP.
user1804599
@afzalex Imagine you were to write a compiler. You knew that one was always faster than the other. You also knew that you could convert one into the other without change in behavior. What would you do?
Hmmmm!!! So javascript compiler take comments as statement.
No, the metric for inlining was just line/charactercount that did not strip comments.
Obviously I will chose the faster way
09:36
@ThePhD I think it was character count without stripping comments.
user1804599
Yes, so in the end the compiler picks whichever is faster, and the programmer doesn't need to worry.
Can I get assemply code for java code?
user1804599
@ThePhD PHP got a breaking change recently to facilitate optimizers.
Ghosh!! It is pretty easy to see assembly code of java classes.
user1804599
@afzalex You can view Java bytecode with the javap tool. If you want to see the output of the JIT compiler (that is, machine code), you can pass the -XX:+PrintOptoAssembly flag to the JVM.
09:39
@rightfold That was nice of them.
user1804599
@ThePhD It also solves a segfault with one of the existing optimizers.
user1804599
function test() {
    $i = 1;
    array_map('extract', [['i' => new stdClass]]);
    $i += 1;
    var_dump($i);
}
test();
user1804599
Would segfault because line 4 thinks $i is an integer.
user1804599
Now it errors because you can't do an indirect call to extract anymore.
Ven
Ven
Hi
09:42
@rightfold kek
user1804599
@Ven What would be a nice untyped target language for PureScript? I want to write a --dump-corefn demo blog post.
Ven
Ven
@ThePhD yet again you've read something on the internet, understood half of it, and now are criticizing based on that :|.
@rightfold lisp? So that you don't have a target bias
user1804599
What do you mean by target bias?
Ven
Ven
@ThePhD it was unrelated to inlining - at all. It was character count to decide whether to JIT or not, which did include comments, and it's been removed by now.
@rightfold not like "i come from a python background but you're targeting perl"
@rightfold also generating lisp code means you don't need to deal with the boring bits of writing a pretty printer
IIRC you have a Sexp PS module
user1804599
Yeah but it always quotes atoms. :P
user1804599
09:45
I still have to fix that.
user1804599
Like, (foo bar) would instead print as ("foo" "bar").
user1804599
@Ven Which lisp should I target? Deffo need lexical scoping.
Ven
Ven
@rightfold all of scheme racket common-lisp and elisp have that ;-)
@Ven What a colossal difference.
user1804599
Ok, I'll target Racket.
09:48
Oh my that starred ~purrformance~ question
user1804599
@Ven Racket also has match so it'll be a piece of cake. :p
user1804599
Converting case expressions is the most difficult.
I think to make all my semantic types it'll just be all the AST types but with a capital S in front.
Expression -> SExpression
user1804599
And Racket has TCO so I need not worry about that.
Glue some type information in there and shit.
Ven
Ven
09:51
@rightfold see, racket is love, racket is life
I think you'll have to do a lot of match compiling still
(And all the CL impls I know have TCO)
user1804599
@Ven Why?
user1804599
Yeah the only lisp that laks TCO is Clojure lol
Ven
Ven
Notice how I didn't list clojure earlier :P
@rightfold type shenanigans and others. I'm sure how you get the match
user1804599
--dump-corefn output is untyped.
@JackDeeth You've been ... on SO for less than a week then
Ven
Ven
09:55
@rightfold oh, okay.
user1804599
The only tricky thing in that regard is data constructors.
user1804599
You have to tag their return values in some way.
user1804599
(define (Just x)
  (list 'Just x)) ; lol
user1804599
Probably using structs is better.
user1804599
match works with structs IIRC.
10:03
Ven
Ven
@rightfold correct
With lambda's it becomes easy to create fast delegates. However, I wonder if they actually could be slower than the old pointer-to-member-function approach. (Code explains why..)
I used my hammer on the wrong one (the one)
Ven
Ven
@sehe did, do – done.
Thank you veeeeeery much
Ven
Ven
10:04
alas I'm a not-even-15k-pleb so it needs more VTC :P.
(Off to get typing lessons)
@sehe Woohoo! It's been a long time since I've done that.
I started to watch the TV series Zoo
It's so bad I'm hooked
Ven
Ven
@Griwes you don't even say hi? :P
what a lurker.
I know you're reading, you just closed that question :).
lol
I think that counts as stalking. :D
Ven
Ven
10:12
why, I voted to close it as well.
Properly lounged. I feel powerful that I was able to dupe-hammer and reopen single handedly before that
Ven
Ven
It takes five loungers to properly sehe it out.
the power of lounge
user1804599
slehe op skivakantie
> "I don't believe in astrology; I'm a Sagittarius and we're skeptical." - Arthur C. Clarke
12
I'm so using that
10:28
lol
I'm not one thing but TWO
Pisces (♓) (/ˈpaɪsiːz/, pis'eez; Ancient Greek: Ἰχθύες Ikhthyes) is the twelfth astrological sign in the Zodiac, originating from the Pisces constellation. It spans the 330° to 360° of the zodiac, between 332.75° and 360° of celestial longitude. Under the tropical zodiac the sun transits this area on average between February 19 and March 20, and under the sidereal zodiac, the sun transits this area between approximately March 13 and April 13. The symbol of the fish is derived from the ichthyocentaurs, who aided Aphrodite when she was born from the sea. According to some tropical astrologers, the...
beat this
2 fish
@sehe Great line
Ven
Ven
@sehe works for me
@AlexM. I always thought you smelled funny
laugh all you want
but once global warming kicks in hard
you'll want to have been my friend
And I am cancer, just pray I don't pop in your testicles ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
10:30
Ugh.
tbh I'd totally be cool with cancer showing up in anything I can just cut off
as opposed to brain cancer
for example
Someone returns a const char* nullptr.
@AlexM. You'll still be eating plastic your whole life.
And std::char_traits<char>::length doesn't check for null first and return 0
@ThePhD It's about finding problems not browsing bub
10:31
so it just explodes
Au fait kho @Ven, tema youtube.com/watch?v=y0UnlgGiYb0 /cc @GundolfGundelfinger @LucDanton
Bisect is worthless if your history is garbage
is this about the commit squish
or squash
commit sasquatch
Ven
Ven
@CatPlusPlus my code is garbage
Plus incoherent diffs (not amount) make it hard to know what was changed
Ven
Ven
10:33
@Rerito c'est un fake :P
I rarely care about squashing because maintainers can choose to squash my PR themselves
via the github ui
@Ven Ofc, still funny
Ven
Ven
tru tru
as for my own stuff I don't generally feel like any of my commits are junk or w/e I only commit when I feel I reached a checkpoint w/e that may look like
e.g. build passing, linting passing, test passing etc.
Having invalid state commits makes bisecting hard too
10:36
yep
only commit when things work by that time's definition of working
Or use branches.
if it's a long experiment I do branching
if it's just sth I want to try out now
I don't commit what I have now lmao
I just stash
try it, then stash pop
I have a serializer. Someone wants to pass it a nullptr const char*.
anyway back to emberjs :(
The serializer has a concept of Nil.
10:40
the first project I contributed to was written in plain JS with angular and it was so pleasant to work in compared to this one
const char* has been defined to be a string in terms of the serializer.
which uses such an advanced and insanely productive framework
Do I serialize Nil, or do I serialize an empty string when I see nullptr?
and it's just a fucking CRUD app
My gut says do A.
10:41
@AlexM. Name's very fitting for what you're going through.
Ven
Ven
@AlexM. if it makes you sad, why do you contribute?
you have no obligations right? it's just to contrib' to open source?
it's an useful project
@ThePhD nullptr and empty string are two very different things.
I'm sure the sadness will be momentary
@ThePhD abort
Ven
Ven
10:42
@AlexM. don't make fun of JS-induced PTSD
@MarkGarcia name?
An empty string is an empty string - the string exists, but there's no characters inside.
A nullptr is an absence of the string.
@AlexM. You're now constantly burned.
@MarkGarcia o lol
@Ven not really he's just making sense
10:43
@Ven Nah, I'm just right /cc @GundolfGundelfinger
Ven
Ven
@AlexM. and i can't make fun of him for that¿
check you griweslege
it would be best if languages had constants like
VALUE_MISSING_BUT_EXPECTED and VALUE_MISSING_HOLY_SHIT
so nulls and such wouldn't be up to anyone's interpretation
Stashing is poor man's branches
Rebasing and amending a temporary branch is strictly superior to stashing
Ven
Ven
I just don't want to commit mayn
#neverreset
10:46
@AlexM. Basically segfaults.
@AlexM. ...this will sound silly, but JS is kind of there - with null and undefined. :P But it'd be best to just have this at the type level and not in magic values.
@Mikhail Huh, I realized you could use a URL shortener for that.
@AlexM. Oh, I now get what you mean.
Ell
Ell
altering history is bad
even if locally :P
but what if you alter it by stopping hitler
HUH?
@Ell Tell the Polish govt that.
Ell
Ell
10:50
I can make an exception for changing author/email if oyu forget to set it up on a new machine
(Though soon you'll probably need to tell your own govt that. :P)
Ell
Ell
@Griwes wouldn't be surprised tbh
you know the politicians are granted some immunity to the snoopers charter
I would be surprised if the UK govt didn't go the way the Polish govt is currently going.
Ell
Ell
the polish government doesn't have a mass surveillance programme though right?
so that's one good thing :P
10:59
> Organized Government
> Thinking there's no surveillance
LUL
Maybe not a single mass-surveillance program in place, but the law pretty much allows it to setup one.
@ThePhD mass surveillance, bby
There's a difference.

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