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12:03 AM
good evening gentlemen, i've finally joined via a 128kbit connection
 
@iksemyonov all your bits are belong to us
 
@Borgleader absolutely
ok, at least the messages arrive
i'm looking for advice on a general exploration profile in vtune, @Mysticial could you guide me?
sigh, i should work harder for 10k, to be able to read the gems
 
Yeah, I mean its fun being able to see dead posts, but I also admit that getting there is no fun. YOu have to go through the pile of shit questions every day.
Ive been coasting on passive rep since I reached 10k
Theres more bonuses at 20k but I cant be bothered
 
I've been mostly lurking, and only posting when I see an actually interesting question, or when I notice a question I know the answer to is getting an unexpected amount of attention
51 answers and 2.8k rep seems to indicate this is an okay strategy for high effort:rep ratios
@Borgleader hey, how've you been?
 
@jaggedSpire I extended my 3 day weekend to a 4 day one, so p- good. Just finished binge watching Stranger Things
You?
 
12:16 AM
@Borgleader noice!
@Borgleader I had an all right day. Spent some time making a presentation on my current progress on my project, and what I need to do to complete the present phase, then presenting it. Worked some on said project, went to a microcenter and discovered they don't have any of the HDDs I was hoping I could use to have an internal replacement for my laptop's broken HDD.
has anyone taken a screenshot of the 264 thread question?
 
@iksemyonov I can take a quick glance at screenshots. But I'm a but busy atm for anything in-depth.
 
@PatrickM'Bongo So I just filed this:
I'm just going to push for it in the next sprint, even though the 12.04 release is EndOfLifed "soon".
It has been the figurative straw
 
12:34 AM
@sehe :O
I'm sorry you've had to deal with that.
 
I find the new ios version annoying, but maybe I am just not used to it
 
@jaggedSpire I was actually very conservative about it myself. I thought I would just "have the discipline". However, it's proving to be a time waste.
 
@sehe alas
 
I can hardly believe I held off replacing our distro boost dependencies with our proprietary boost 1.61 packages.
So much simpler having to deal with only 1 version.
So much nicer to be able to configure it just the way we want, be sure of ABI configurations etc.
 
takes notes
 
12:40 AM
@Mysticial it's also showing up in the advanced hs, where the same sub-mul-add triplet is suddenly taking a few times as long as it does in the beginning
@Mysticial i.imgur.com/lCeTGnz.png this one: the red bars towards the end of the function where there seems to be a bottleneck building up; question is, why could it be
 
Is that the same as the one in your SO question? I've taken a look at that and I don't have an explanation. There's too much going on in the code.
 
well it is, though updated with some optimizations here and there
hmm ok i understand
i suspect a pipeline bottleneck or what is the correct word, too much fpu one after another
i have also redone the "tail" of the function with fewer multiplications and no stores, but it doesn't run any faster :(
 
@wilx I suppose next time people have kids they will hit them as soon as they start imitating little words. Because ~~cultural appropriation~~!
 
Back-end bound can mean any of these:
- No available execution ports because they're all busy.
- No instructions to issue because they're waiting for inputs. (either due to long latencies or cache misses)
- Probably more that I'm not aware. I'm not sure if mispredictions and various other conflicts fall in this category.
 
yep I am putting this into my dairy so I can point & laugh when further delay is ensued
 
12:51 AM
Hey, guys, question
 
can the stall build up a few instruction deep, i.e. i1 waits for i0, i2 waits for i1, in the end they all show up as bottlenecked?
 
Is there a language that has separate syntax for (re)assignment v. declaration?
 
@iksemyonov I don't know actually.
 
i see some memory bound stuff in that region using memory analysis btw
 
I know cache misses will show up on the load/store instruction itself. (or 1 after if you include the shift)
 
12:52 AM
I know C++ with int x = 20; but then also allows x = 19; later on. I was wondering if it would help to allow int x = 20;, but then make re-assignment specifically be x := 19; or something.
 
@Telkitty Don't poison yourself
Also. To ensue is not a transitive verb.
 
Not with that attitude
 
@Mysticial yeah now i know that too after Peter explained it in his answer :)
 
@ThePhD cobol maybe
 
@iksemyonov Peter probably knows more than me in this super low-level stuff.
 
12:55 AM
not that I know much about that language, only the very basic
 
how "nasty" are shuffps if at all?i've removed all the instances of roundps replacing them with various cvt
but somehow have a gut feeling that the other version with a few shufps is slow partly because of them
 
@iksemyonov Shuffle instructions aren't too bad as long as you use them sparingly.
 
@Mysticial oh ok, wish i could tlak to him as well
 
roundps is slow starting from Haswell.
 
which is exactly my rig for a while, i5 4300m
 
1:02 AM
I have seen one case where identical instructions in straight-line code had larger bars in the profiler later in the BB than earlier. In that case, it was due to an extremely long dependency chain where the later instructions were more likely to stall because they couldn't be issued until the 20-some instructions before it were done.
 
well, my code is pretty much linear, it first finds the density value via linear interpolation, which is 3 sub-mul-add packs, then proceeds to perform another linear interpolation and a formula update
all in a damn straight line. so right now i'm working on optimizing away a good deal of work at the algorithm level
 
wtf, it seems that I have lost all my exercise data because of the new ios update ...
Why do I have this feeling that instead of being a better tool for users, new OS becomes a better tool for tracking users
 
@Mysticial i.imgur.com/b6bcpZB.png see how the mulps is getting progressively slower and for some reason memory bound (sure when you have time)
 
1:19 AM
@ThePhD If you need temporary assignment, some languages like python allow an external-scope variable to temporarily be shadowed by local-scope variables with the same name. Rust uses an expressive variable binding syntax for match and let. I think you want consistent assignment syntax x = 5, x := 5, x: 5, w/e that has a type declaration for the first assignment, and for explicitly shadowing the variables from outer scopes.
So you'd declare x(int): 5 the first use, x: 4 to reassign, and then if you move into a loop and aren't using x, you can shadow any x (or reassign local x) by declaring x(int): 7. Presumably shadowing like this would only be permitted for x of the same type
 
@sehe Good idea :) Also, I had no idea some companies were still on 12.04
 
Just customers. Basically, because our company neglected to provide migration paths. But we're fixing that
It's LTS, of course. But time is running out.
 
But at the end of the day, it's an aesthetic choice. It's most intuitive to declare and bind in the same line when possible.
@Telkitty new OS always arise out of a need to make things easier. The question is for whom ;)
 
2:24 AM
@Mikhail
> CPU Utilization: 19193.12 % + 101.08 % kernel overhead
Multi-core Efficiency: 70.56 % + 0.37 % kernel overhead
 
2:42 AM
I was going to compare this question to a question such as 'would a large scale landslide from a very tall mountain increase the number of crocodiles in the river beneath'. But decide such a comparison is too deep for some people to comprehend. — Telkitty 2 mins ago
go me!
 
3:16 AM
yello
 
miao
 
@PatrickM'Bongo My school is still on 12.04.
 
hello
 
Or was it 14.04... ?
I think 4.8.4 means 14.04
 
is that git the princess comic where jon skeet got his new avy from
 
4:13 AM
Sure looks like it
 
@ThePhD seriously...?
My university had a policy to upgrade software/distros during summer break.
So everything was at worst 1 year behind.
 
@PatrickM'Bongo Not my school. I asked I think 2, 3 years ago for an LTS upgrade.
I think they said they'd "consider it".
 
4:48 AM
@Rapptz should give credit for it
 
 
2 hours later…
6:23 AM
Seems like the facebook enterprise project will be successful on the market!

http://venturebeat.com/2016/10/10/facebook-at-work-launches-as-workplace/
 
Ven
6:41 AM
Hi
 
user1804599
Hi
 
Hi
 
@ThePhD Yup. 12.04 is with 4.6
@iksemyonov starred for benchmark porn
 
Ven
7:20 AM
@JerryCoffin just what's your timezone?
 
@Ven Chronosynclastically infudibulated.
Okay, more seriously, US Pacific (UTC-8).
 
@JerryCoffin google says it's a "Military Time" :P
 
@ProblemSlover I'm definitely on ex-military time. Ex-military for a long time now, AAMOF.
 
So ...
 
Ven
7:31 AM
@JerryCoffin i didn't expect an actual answer from you :p
You're the one who talks like a politician, dodging questions about breakfast and such.
 
@Ven Politician? Okay, I think I'm going to go to bed now. I don't have to take that kind of insult!
 
I had forgotten about this, though I wrote the answer linked to :) — sehe 5 secs ago
 
@sehe ;_;
Is gravatar.com broken only for me?
 
7:51 AM
@wilx doesn't load for me either...
 
Ven
"Tu l'as fait sous Paint ?" version 2016 (Spoiler : c'est devenu cool). https://t.co/Ni4AcFjSHW
Paint now can into 3D
 
@ratchetfreak OK. So it is not just our corporate network. Good. :)
 
@wilx well I'm also on a corporate network...
 
¬_¬ can we get that nonsense cleared of the starboard please
 
Ven
8:10 AM
we did
 
user1804599
hmm
 
curry on
(not a typo btw)
 
Hi folks
 
Ven
hi hi
> Parce que si on peut éviter de passer par du TCP/IP et manger l'overhead reseau alors qu'on pourrais utiliser les socket Unix ce serait pas plus mal
@Rerito ^ tu peux me traduire ça ?
 
8:28 AM
Unix sockets are basically mmaped files.
Low overhead.
 
@Ven You mean in english english?
 
Ven
@Rerito no I mean, why would you say this. You're not gonna use unix sockets on network
 
#TIL: July (the seventh month) is an hour behind July (the zero-seventh month). In #JavaScript-land at least. https://t.co/cwXGIgMDNc
7
 
Oh, reading it I assumed the guy didn't need the network and highlighted how silly it was to use TCP/IP for local stuff
That's basically what they did at my previous place... IPC through tcp sockets and using xml shit
Awful
 
user1804599
Humans are trivial knots.
 
8:38 AM
anyone can help me with java code ?
 
no
Jan 30 '15 at 2:30, by Borgleader
"Hi I have a question about my retirement fund"
"Sir this is a convenience store..."
"I know but it's the only thing open at this hour"
 
no-one is online in other java chat rooms
 
Ven
wow, nice pre-shot
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes can't you say that about most things in *nix?
@jagdish Because people never go there... go there and be sociable
 
user1804599
@jagdish Yes, on Stack Overflow. Not here.
 
8:56 AM
i don't have enough points to ask question that sucks
8
 
Oops, remotely turned on firewall with "deny all".
 
I would totally concur, @M.Stramm. It seems my intuition didn't include that yet back in 2011. <foot-in-mouth/> Will delete in a few minutes (so you can read this comment) — sehe 13 secs ago
Hehe.
The public version of "I hate my younger self"
@jagdish Maybe, ask a question that doesn't suck
 
user1804599
Haha Jon Skeet changed his avatar
3
 
user1804599
Jon Skeet, Reading, United Kingdom
899k 486 6526 7456
 
I'm pretty sure he just forgot a comma
 
9:06 AM
@jagdish questions and answers don't need points.
 
user1804599
WTF LOOK AT MY POINTS
 
my points are amazing
2
 
@BartekBanachewicz lol JS Date
 
@rightfold Am I bad for not having a clue what his avatar used to be like
 
user1804599
Can I hint the compiler that certain memory will not be read from anymore until it is written to first?
 
user1804599
9:08 AM
 
Oh. Yeah. That makes total sense
Thanks for the memory jog
 
@rightfold free it?
 
user1804599
Nah, that won't work. It's a subarray of an array.
 
user1804599
A stack of void pointers.
 
So, what good would it be to tell the compiler that
 
user1804599
9:10 AM
@sehe So it can eliminate redundant writes.
 
@LearnHowToBeTransparent Wrong room, I guess
1 message moved to bin
@rightfold ?
The compiler doesn't usually go around just doing unnecessary writes.
 
user1804599
Say you do: *++stack = x; --stack;. Eliminating this code won't change the behavior of the program. But the compiler doesn't know that, because it can't tell whether someone else will read beyond the stack pointee.
 
In fact, that's the reason for frequent security fuck ups, when memzero/memset are just ignored (because memory is not read from anymore)
@rightfold Have you looked at the compiler's optimization? I wager that if stack is std::array<X, n> then it already can optimize
 
user1804599
My entire program consists of functions that take a void ** and return a void **.
 
You suck
 
user1804599
9:13 AM
They all propagate stack pointers.
 
And, what does it matter. If that's the case and it comes between the stack push and the pop, you're NEVER going to be able to optimize it.
 
Call a destructor between them?
 
Unless the compiler statically knows what function is actually behind the void** and can devirtualize
 
Well, before --
 
user1804599
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hmm, interesting.
 
user1804599
9:14 AM
LLVM also has lifetime intrinsics.
 
user1804599
Maybe I can sneak those in somehow.
 
Even a trivial one is guarantee enough that nothing needs to be written.
Question is whether current compilers will pick up on that.
And if it is nontrivial one it is probably desirable to call it for correctness
 
Ven
@arcaderage I'd love to use "me on a chair" as my Gravatar if you'd be amenable. Could you email/DM me?
looks like he asked to use the avatar
 
user1804599
It's #AdaLovelaceDay, #DayoftheGirl, and #comingoutday. :/
 
llvm also has undef and poison values that it can optimize on
 
user1804599
9:19 AM
Hmm.
 
user1804599
Assigning undef.
 
user1804599
I don't know if that works.
 
user1804599
> The string ‘undef‘ can be used anywhere a constant is expected, and indicates that the user of the value may receive an unspecified bit-pattern.
 
user1804599
#ifdef NDEBUG
#define assert(x) __builtin_assume(x)
#else
#define assert(x) /* usual stuff */
#endif
 
if you store undef into the popped position then it can assume the value written before that (and not read since) is a dead store
 
user1804599
9:23 AM
huh cool, clang has builtins that check for arithmetic overflow e.g. __builtin_add_overflow
 
though I have no idea if it actually detects it that way
 
Ven
@rightfold stop doing C++ you badlet
 
user1804599
I'm doing C.
 
user1804599
I'm generating C using Haskell.
 
Ven
oh
you should generate B instead
 
9:25 AM
or go straight to llvm IR
 
user1804599
or Fortran
 
user1804599
No, generating C gives an instant FFI.
 
user1804599
An FFI that supports C inline functions and macros.
 
user1804599
So you can call shitty libraries.
 
does anyone of you know anything about monitoring?
I might sorta need a camera outside
pondering over ethernet/PoE vs WiFi vs analog+separate recorder
 
9:31 AM
You mean like CCTV stuff for your home?
 
yea
I need it outdoor though
 
so a rPi with camera module connected to wifi is not going to work I guess
 
Isn't it illegal if a public space is on the camera view?
(It is in France IIRC)
 
@Rerito I don't care
@ratchetfreak could. But I doubt it would be cheaper than a dedicated wifi camera
a PoE one costs about 50€
the opinions about the cheap ones are obviously that they are unreliable crap
this one looks much better
I could use something like that
 
9:52 AM
We have new coding guidelines starting today. There is only one style rule: indent with 4 spaces.
 
user1804599
    if (x) {
    f();
    } else {
    g();
    }
 
> We trust each other that no one writes code like this
Quoted from the doc.
 
user1804599
:(
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
( x ) ? f() : g();
learn to write better code
 
Ven
10:00 AM
yeah because x totes needs parentheses
 
hmm I'm wondering about getting a 48-port panel
it's fairly expensive, but the price per 8-port unit goes down
I doubt I could buy those modules cheaper even if I bought them w/o the enclosure
 
@Ven for readability of course
 
user1804599
I'm so sad.
 
is it common for optimised intrinsic-using code to span mutiple pages? i mean, i'm not sure if it's possible to factor out pieces of the code into functions, no idea if they are going to be inlined - can that be relied on?
 
I think I'm gonna buy this one
 
Ven
10:13 AM
@rightfold why?
 
it's fairly expensive, but no soldering should make it a lifetime investment
OTOH well hmm is it really worth it here
 
Woah, a hobby project using panels? It's like a 5 minute repair every few years if the solder goes bad. Will you be playing serious KSP in 10 years?
 
@Aaron3468 but but
I could hook up all of the individual modules using LAN
@Aaron3468 I even picked this one because it has 90 deg connectors so that I could route the SPI "bus" cables through all of them
 
But I suppose if your intent is to have a reusable console controller for any game, then you can look into more permanent solutions. At that point I'd just make independent (soldered) pcb modules that communicate over ribbon cable. Then you can unplug them and reuse them/recompose them if you need to.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Seriously, that should be enough for all style issues. We trust that no one is a fucking idiot.
 
10:27 AM
you should not make someone to feel bad just because he writes bad code, hahahaha
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes As a project grows in scale, the likelihood of having to clean up after an idiot grows Q.Q
 
@Aaron3468 No, it doesn't.
 
just do code reviews
 
Selection bias acts against that.
@Aaron3468 That is only true for a random population.
But the population of programmers at this company is not random.
 
10:31 AM
idoits have to work somewhere ...
 
A bias doesn't remove probability. Only reduces it. But indeed, some places are very good at identifying bad workers. Unfortunately it's hard to generalize without making small exceptions, and just as hard to speak specifically and become irrelevant to most readers.
But I'm happy to hear you don't have those issues :D
@BartekBanachewicz That looks nice
 
Argh, fucking App Store.
I don't want a fucking Apple ID. Fuck this shit.
 
Apple has also erased my year worth of activity data when upgrading my OS last night
 
10:49 AM
@BartekBanachewicz oh, KSP controller is it?
 
@thecoshman well the plan (to utilize the patch panel)
@Aaron3468 yeah I thought so too
it's just the panel itself is not a critical component
e.g. one display costs about 10 PLN
and the panel is 50 PLN
even assuming cabling and ethernet plugs are free, that's still significant
 
You could look to get the rj45 sockets that you would get mounted into walls/desls etc...
you know like when you get trunking around an office?
 
@thecoshman that defeats the nicety of having the "bus" lined up
 
hang on...
 
@thecoshman real photo of the panel connectors shows what I mean together with the pic
 
10:56 AM
 
yeah that's a single keystone
they'd still require me to do the bus splitting myself
maybe I should just order the bus board
 
you'd have to do that anyway if you used rj45
Ethernet isn't designed with having some wires bussed in mind
 
@thecoshman no, I could just press the cable into those panel grips
@thecoshman at a few Mhz over a couple dozen cm it doesn't really matter
 
@BartekBanachewicz you could do it with those too, they still use a punch tool for terminating the wirse
 
@thecoshman I don't want to terminate the wire in the middle
just on the ends
 
10:59 AM
keep in mind though, punch tools for those (at least all that I've ever seen) have a cutting tool that trims the cable on the one side
 
I know. You can still punch them in without cutting them though
 
usually when you don't want to :P
 
I'd just cut it on the left side of socket 0 and on the right side of socket 7
linking 4 pins of them all together, forming my bus
 
yeah I get you
you'd still need to push the cable down though
but yeah, you could still get that using those single units I sent you on
plus they have a nice spot for you to add a label :P
and you can buy the trunking that they mount into, along with end caps and stuff, so a box for it would be rather simple
any way, lunch time :P
 
@thecoshman I have one like that w/o the cutter
@thecoshman nah, they don't have the slots so nicely lined up
well I mean technically you could zigzag through all of them somehow maybe but
too bad my store didn't have those
i have to check this one here
 
user1804599
11:21 AM
hi
 
user1804599
If you can name your variables something more descriptive than 'f', 'a', etc., your code is insufficiently polymorphic & probably broken.
 
user1804599
Discuss! /cc @Ven
 
wrong by simple fact that you quoted it
 
user1804599
1 min ago, by Patrick M'Bongo
wrong by simple fact that you quoted it
4
 
1 min ago, by rightfold
1 min ago, by Patrick M'Bongo
wrong by simple fact that you quoted it
 
user1804599
11:29 AM
I want to learn about temporal logic.
 
@rightfold nice one
egh apparently no shop here has stripboards
 
Ven
11:53 AM
@rightfold that was nice :)
La cigale a chanté tout l'été, mais nous sommes maintenant en hiver.
@rightfold that doesn't mean a single thing
I mean, Mysticial gets along just fine with variables named qwe234234
Dismiss trolling – if I'm allowed to look at the code, it might be enough. It will, 90% of the times. The names are here for the 10% were it's just better to spell it out.
 

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