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11:01 PM
TIL @LightningRacisinObrit works in a clothing store
 
 
TIL Rapptz is a grad student
 
@Borgleader I didn't get it :(
 
@Cinch Used to be. Having successfully defended his dissertation, I think he's pretty much done with that (unless he decides to do some post-doc work, get another doctorate, etc.)
 
@JerryCoffin He's a PhD now?
Impressive
Um, but I'd like to ask: is there a great networking solution for C++?
I'm learning towards learning Boost.Asio, Boost.Filesystem, and maybe Boost.Thread soon
 
11:08 PM
@Cinch Depends on how you define "great". Opinions on Boost asio are somewhat mixed, but probably more positive than negative overall.
 
@JerryCoffin Idk I've been reading the opposition to both STL and Boost on the Game Dev SE and SO and the verdict seems to be that the endgame defaults to something similar to Boost
as in, Boost and the C++ Standard Library begins to become THE answer the farther you go
 
@Cinch It probably defaults to Boost, yes. If you want something else, you need to produce something with advantages over Boost's that you can clearly and directly explain (though that certainly can be done--for example, I think Eric Neibler's ranges library stands a much better chance of adoption than Boost ranges).
 
@JerryCoffin Sounds interesting
I'm just wondering whether there should be a stronger "canon" for C++ as it is now
Boost already is a sort of proxy standard library for C++ and it seems only right to raise awareness about Boost as a reliable and productive library
I'm not sure but as a beginner, I'm sort of floating in space, not knowing what to dive into and really use once I come across a problem; the process could be greatly accelerated if the community had a stronger opinion of "what people should know" or "what people might use"
 
@Cinch Raising awareness, improving the code, writing documentation, writing sample code--all sorts of ways people can contribute.
 
C++ is my only programming language so far and I've read some of the recommended C++ books but I would like to learn more about design patterns, what should I check out first for that subject?
I'm considering to start either by Alexandrescu's Modern C++ Design or GoF's Design Patterns. Does anyone recommend one of those, or something else entirely?
 
11:20 PM
I don’t think Alexandrescu’s book has much to do with design patterns at all.
 
@LucDanton Implements a few, but that's about it.
 
I'm wondering if I could aggregate a bunch of code examples and then put it on the website
i.e. make a giant repo and then ask people for code examples
"C++ Community Canon Code" = C4
C4++
 
@Cinch Boost is already a giant code repo. If you write some good examples, you could submit it to boost.org to get it included there.
 
@JerryCoffin I want it suited for beginners
 
@Cinch if you did that some day in the future where would I find it?
 
11:28 PM
@Cinch Yup. Tutorials generally should be (at least beginners in that particular library, if not necessarily C++ in general).
 
@AlexM. Wanker
 
OOOH
 
@arthropod probably Compact C++
 
@Borgleader Considered starring, but if I did, I'd undoubtedly be accused of still more hatred and such...
 
@JerryCoffin I know that Boost has fine code snippets but the purpose is to create a smooth er curve from 0 knowledge tI something maybe okay
 
11:35 PM
@Cinch My point is that keeping the tutorial together with the library it attempts to teach about seems to accomplish more than separating them would.
 
As in, a code repo people can download without any prior experience and go through it and learn from example
I'm sure an excellent online resource would do a lot of good for beginners
 
@LucDanton Something I've noticed in Niebler ranges is just how hard it is to make them.
Seems like a step down from iterators in a way.
 
@Rapptz what do you think?
 
Making new iterators is already noisy
@Cinch About what exactly?
 
Having a standard code Canon for beginners
a GitHub repo or something
 
11:41 PM
why
 
To make learning C++ easier of course
I.e. we organize several modules to download
 
@arthropod YDNDP -- You don't need design patterns
That's the only design pattern you'll ever need
 
I don't really like it either
 
@Rapptz What do you mean?
 
Just a C++ specific version of Rosetta Code
 
11:44 PM
Thats not really suited towards complete beginners
 
That has nothing to do with design patterns
ow
 
I mean it should really be suited towards complete beginners.
 
stupid idea
complete beginners are supposed to learn concepts, not languages.
 
@Rapptz Oh hey Dr. Rapptz. First-hand experience on the repo?
 
lol
I was looking over the repo yeah
I don't really like it tbh
 
11:47 PM
@Rapptz what do you mean?
 
@Rapptz Sure
 
user3010322
I thought neibler ranges would be easier?
 
Oh boy are you guys trying to convince Cinch not to do something stupid?
 
But the specific solutions vary a lot
 
user3010322
I know in the case of making iterators for sol is should be easier.
 
11:48 PM
@Jefffrey good point
I'll just do it
 
It's a waste of time. He'll do it anyway.
 
lol
 
Just plonk and move on.
 
@caps have you seen the repo
 
@Rapptz Nope.
 
11:49 PM
so GTA V got released on PC
 
I just read some of his pieces about it.
 
everyone's crazy downloading it and shit, some frustrated that it doesn't work
 
@Rapptz Anything in particular that stands ous?
 
@Rapptz The ideas seemed cool.
 
I'm talking about making ranges, not so much making algorithms that use ranges btw
Just making that bit clear
 
user3010322
11:52 PM
The only idea I'm interested in is PolyIterators.
 
@ThePhD I think the emphasis (so far) has been on ease of use--but probably at the expense of being on the more difficult (or at least verbose) side in implementation.
 
Oh hang on.
@Rapptz Did you mean writing/defining new ranges? First thing that sprung to mind was creating instances of types that are models of a range concept. Which doesn’t seem right on second thought lol.
 
Yeah.
 
user3010322
template< class InputIt, class T >
InputIt find( InputIt first, InputIt last, const T& value );
// becomes
template< class InputIt1, class InputIt2, class T>
InputIt find( InputIt1 first, InputIt2 last, const T& value );
 
user3010322
^ The only thing I care about, at all.
 
11:53 PM
You have to write a cursor and inherit from range_facade etc.
At least, all of Niebler's ranges do.
 
From what I remember this stuff is not part of the concepts proper, so you could endeavour to write a model without that stuff.
It kinda begs the question 'why isn’t this stuff baked into the concepts', no? 'What you write is what you get', so to speak.
 
@ThePhD so-so
 
It would be interesting if they are not as easy to use for cases where iterators are already easy to use.
 
user3010322
@Rapptz That's the one reason iterators don't compose and stack well: end not being some end_iterator_t means you need to bake "finished" information into your iterators, which almost always bloats implementation ridiculously.
 
@ThePhD But... yeah, that.
 
11:57 PM
well they have to be comparable
and possibly convertible
 
@LucDanton Right--I'm pretty sure he doesn't (for example) depend on inheritance, so you're obliged to inherit from range_facade and such--that's just an implementation artifact.
 
The range_facade takes care of a lot of boilerplate though.
I don't see how it's any better than iterators as-is.
 
user3010322
Most of the algorithms don't actually care about being convertible to the value type for the end iterator, though: just the bit you begin iterator that gets worked on. There's a number of algorithms where just "loosening" the type requirement would have huuuuuuge gains.
 
@ThePhD er
most do
what are you smoking?
first != last is so common
 
@Rapptz Does look like it (though I haven't tried to implement any, so it's hard to be sure how things work out in practice.
 
11:59 PM
return last; too
 

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