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Ven
Ven
09:02
@Elyse that might be a bit exaggerated, no?
unless you have a really great page for that
user1804599
For what?
user1804599
Haskell syntax?
Ven
Ven
no, mathy syntax in papers
09:17
@Andy what made you unaccept that answer now?
@Borgleader No, but we are currently considering whether subbing for foreign students would be feasible.
I am so bored with life that I have started to stalk people on twitter. I am just glad to find out that their life is as boring as mine <3 HAPPY!!!
@Elyse How do you teach idiomatic Java without introducing mutability?
@Elyse You can download an MP4 below.
user1804599
@fredoverflow functionaljava.org :D
Isn't it the very epitome of sad when you admit you derive glee from other people's -perceived- sadness.
user1804599
09:19
@fredoverflow Don't teach idiomatic Java, for idiomatic Java is bad.
@Elyse I'm sorry, but it's not my choice.
TBTB demand Java.
user1804599
> Will teach idiomatic Java for food.
Boring != sad
I don't think they are sad, they are just doing what they have been doing since ... I have started to aware their existence.
I think it is sad
Probably, but I am happy. Full Stop.
09:22
Convincing
I should take a picture of me smiling, but it's hard to time stamp on the internet
user1804599
lol what does kernigger know about successful language design seriously
Like I said, I am on a run of happiness again these a few weeks. It's weird. But I am happy, I don't care.
user1804599
09:25
<B,C,D,E$,F$,G,H,I$>
Parser<I,I$,E> bind(Parser<I,B,E> pb, Parser<I,C,E> pc, Parser<I,D,E> pd, Parser<I,E$,E> pe, Parser<I,F$,E> pf, Parser<I,G,E> pg, Parser<I,H,E> ph, F<A,F<B,F<C,F<D,F<E$,F<F$,F<G,F<H,I$>>>>>>>> f)
user1804599
It's like C++, but Java.
not sure if you've ever heard of emily howell before
user1804599
@Ven one thing I don't like about OCaml besides equality is that it has three different mechanisms for grouping values that don't interoperate well: records, classes/objects, and modules/functors.
> after learning every Data Type the language offers, how it handles Memory Management, Garbage Collection and Floating Point Numbers — none of which seem relevant to his grand vision — he discovers that the book does not even begin to address any of the features his program is suppose to have.
09:27
@orlp a clunky rendition of a clunky fugue-derivative?
@sehe it's computer-generated
The most remarkable this is that the theme is so mono-morphic and short that there is no telling what is a divertimento and what is thematic material. It's really information-poor
like this one more
note that these are excerpts from the full thing
@orlp Hah. That's a bit of a reprieve. I hope no one actually studied that. What a waste of time
09:28
but the full thing is buy stuff
I love the top-left part :D
user1804599
> We like to offer you a free trial of LinkedIn Premium.
@sehe well, the music is generated, still played by a human
user1804599
Why would I want LinkedIn Premium.
How about ArrayIn Premium?
user1804599
09:29
@fredoverflow 99% understanding the code I just cargo-culted because I shouldn't be the one doing this job.
user1804599
> static Monoid<java.math.BigDecimal> bigdecimalAdditionMonoid
user1804599
Explicitly-passed type class instances! Eww!
@orlp this stuff makes me twitch a li'll.
Hahaha. Someone just assigned himself to a bug. That was reported in 2006 bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gst-plugins-ugly0.10/+bug/…
Ven
Ven
@Elyse also namespaces :P
user1804599
I like that forever in Haskell doesn't loop forever.
user1804599
09:34
> forever Nothing
Nothing
user1804599
@Ven Scala just has one mechanism that it uses for all three things.
Ven
Ven
wait, did they not accept namespaces for 4.02? :(
> Rewrite most of the answer to make it actually understandable
snarf @GregorMcGregor
anyone know the answer to this?
only clang complains
09:37
{{ stuff }}
huh
how does that work
also, why does it complain
= { /* construct std::array */ { /* construct array inside std::array */
it's a bogus warning
I'm not nesting arrays though
oh I see
Repwhore 101:
1. Watch sehe's stream.
2. Catch typos.
3. Edit them before he notices.
4. ... Profit!
you mean the array data member
09:39
yes
kk
now the more serious error
max_align_t is missing on clang
wat do
Ven
Ven
@Rapptz means std::array has no std::initializer_list<T> ctor?
it's an aggregate
user1804599
09:43
data Nat = Zero | Succ Nat
data Int = Int Bool Nat
user1804599
Is this a terrible representation of integers?
user1804599
> For example, for many Pascal compilers:
if i in [5..10] then ...
executes faster than:
if (i > 4) and (i < 11) then ...
user1804599
TIL many Pascal compilers are utter shit.
user1804599
09:46
@fredoverflow But what if you need lazy, possibly infinite, integers?
Ven
Ven
@Elyse you're elysing a bit too early in the morning
@Elyse TYL don't believe everything you read.
You can have positive and negative zero here as far as I understand
I don't believe the claim in the first place
09:47
Which is bad
elyse you hurt my head
Ven
Ven
@milleniumbug well..
user1804599
@milleniumbug Ohh, I see! Easy to fix, though:
user1804599
data Pos = Succ Nat
data Nat = Zero | Pos
data Int = Int Bool Pos
Ven
Ven
@Elyse you're not supposed to use church numerals in real code, y'know
but you're probably only doing that for Agda?
user1804599
09:48
These are Peano numerals.
user1804599
Church encoding uses lambdas.
Ven
Ven
you're not supposed to use peano numerals either
yeah it's kinda retarded
user1804599
@Ven No, just wondering what's the best way to implement integers when all you have is user-defined ADTs and no primitive types.
No best, all are equally terrible
09:50
Nothing like having to copy data to a thumb drive because OS X can't natively talk with NTFS partitioned/formatted disk physically located 1 cm above it.
if I have two namespace A and B, is there any way to call A::f() if it exists, otherwise fall back to B::f()?
user1804599
You can mix C code in Pascal code!
@ElimGarak lolsx
user1804599
program hello; {
    printf("Hello, world!\n");
}
begin
    writeln('Hello, world!')
end.
user1804599
Really works. :D
09:51
amazing
not really
user1804599
@orlp No, because you can't pass namespaces to templates.
user1804599
And you need templates to do this kind of checks.
@Elyse printf is wrapped in a comment
user1804599
:D
09:54
Pascal is better than C++
At least it has modules
Ven
Ven
#include <shots.hpp>
shots::fire();
@CatPlusPlus can't argue with that
@Elyse actually you're wrong
if you can extend the namespace
delete A::f and you'll see it falls back to B::f
user1804599
Lewd, but only works for functions that don't take user-defined types as arguments.
user1804599
You have to wrap the callee in parentheses to disable Koenig lookup.
Ven
Ven
09:57
@orlp ...that's pretty ugly, though. but well done...
@Rerito you're blocked from my stream now
@sehe lol
@ElimGarak livecd and just use linux
hrm
user1804599
Integers in Haskell don't have a total ordering. :(
10:00
sadly in this case A is std so I can't extend this namespace
@Elyse do you think there is a way without extending A?
user1804599
I don't think so.
user1804599
Ask on Stack Overflow and farm rep!
by the way, IEEE754 doubles aren't total ordered either
@CatPlusPlus I liked those
call std::sort on arrays containing NaN
UB fun times!
user1804599
10:01
@orlp Booleans don't have a total ordering either, in Haskell. :O
@Elyse wat
user1804599
The ordering operators aren't defined for ⊥ arguments.
that's silly though
user1804599
error "fuck" < True is not defined.
10:02
sorting booleans is a big thing in CS
Real tragedy
14 hours ago, by fredoverflow
auto it = std::partition(v.begin(), v.end(), std::isnan);
std::sort(it, v.end());
if you prove a sorting network works for booleans, it works for every type
@sehe Actually, my company's firewall does it's job pretty well to that end :(
Back on Win10, man. Always feels awesome.
user1804599
10:03
⊥ looks like a square butt if you squint hard enough. I guess that's why they decided to call it "bottom".
@Rerito I told you. I wasn't kidding
user1804599
:-)
| |
|⊥|
|_|_
@ElimGarak What did you use before?
@fredoverflow OS X 10.11 El Capitan
@orlp Just use countsort?
10:04
it's basically a restart for me
el cuntpitan
cuntsort
1 min ago, by orlp
if you prove a sorting network works for booleans, it works for every type
2 hours ago, by sehe
Stop it potatohead
@sehe ?
10:04
@GregorMcGregor u need 2 g@ l8
@sehe Yeah I knew it! You're behind this
bartek cuntachewicz
disclaimer: photos for reference only
yeah there's cuntless such jokes we could make
@AndyProwl No, you cunt.
geddit h3h
10:06
std::cunt
I'm binning the tab now
is it that bad
"This file has been created by a newer Zbrush version [4.7]"... Looks up... "Zbrush 4R7"...
I am... Annoyed. Oh, an update on Windows. Well, crap.
Commit message mishap: Used std::cunt instead of...
HR asked to see you.
10:13
Kids, don't do green text
color d best color.
how does that even work
Morning.
@Morwenn Hi
10:15
morwening
Always start the day with a cup of coffee.
Watching the last Bonjour Tristesse
I don't watch that.
Snob
10:18
@ElimGarak WTF?
Translation doesn't make a lot of sense
> A woman who left him naked chased around the house and asked for sex
what does that maen?
"Where is sex??"
Even the local title is a bit dumb, but the gist of it is... They're separated, but still living under the same roof. Dude chased her around the house naked asking for sex, anyways. Got arrested and stuff.
oh, ok
Note to self: Her saying yes at the altar is not guaranteed to std::forward.
user1804599
10:20
@Ven eww, I found a special case in PureScript.
Ven
Ven
@Elyse did you?
user1804599
(&&) and (||), when called directly with two arguments, short-circuit.
Ven
Ven
:P
user1804599
So id (&&) false (g ()) nonterminates when g () nonterminates, but false && g () doesn't.
10:23
@GregorMcGregor The way of the butt
user1804599
They should've made (&&) and (||) language structures instead of functions.
Ell
Ell
Jimmy wales is pestering me for a donation again!
user1804599
Like and then and or else in Ada.
Ell
Ell
10:25
@chmod666telkitty very raunchy
@chmod666telkitty Buttatoe
2
user1804599
What's wrong with social inequality?
[NSFW]
That second one is uhm... Wow.
10:27
you know what OS these run
potatoes are NSFW?
user1804599
PotatOS.
@Elyse Did you know that Perl6's mascot, the butterfly, is called Camelia?
I have some process that generates some files
if it doesn't change a file, it doesn't touch it
Camelia starts with Camel...
10:29
is there some way to make ninja understand that "no, these files haven't been touched, but yes, they're up to date even though their input is newer"?
That doesn't seem to make sense.
@fredoverflow my parser generator generates a header file with token ids
@ElimGarak what I got from the translation is that they were apart, agreed to meet at family house (parents?) and there he pressured her she must have sex "one more time". And got violent. She escaped. Is there so much wrong with the translation that the gist doesn't even work?
I often change the grammar without adding/removing new tokens
...
10:30
so that header file is still up-to-date, even though it's input is newer
@orlp Do people still use parser generators? Do people still write parser generators??
@orlp You should probably split the sources and attribute dependency correctly
@fredoverflow I didn't write it, it's called LEMON
Ell
Ell
Sehe uses boost spirit all the time Fred!
@orlp Or fix the parser generator step to only update the file if changed
10:31
@orlp What version of LEMON do you use, 8? lol
@fredoverflow parser generator generator technology is still too far out of our reach
@sehe that's what it does
@Ell And CoCo/R
@orlp Apparently not
Mmm. Ok
ninja looks at grammar.h and grammar.y
sees that grammar.y is newer, so regenerates grammar.h
LEMON sees output is unchanged, so doesn't touch grammar.h
next time I build the exact same thing happens again
So, what's not good? It the output of LEMON too verbose?
10:32
I googled "suggestive potato", and it came up with this NSFW picture. WTF?
Does it take too long? Because in that case, go back to (A)
@fredoverflow write them for homework, probably
Ell
Ell
@orlp touch grammar.h after doing LEMON
As a workaround
@Ell I do that right now, but that's wrong too
@fredoverflow That's exactly what you were looking for
Ell
Ell
10:33
Why?
that means that even though grammar.h didn't change, anything that builds from grammar.h gets rebuild
@fredoverflow I don't see the potato, but her hand positioning is about right
because it got touched
Ell
Ell
Ah yeah you're right
user1804599
@fredoverflow Yes.
10:33
@fredoverflow I am reminded of a potato so I think it’s accurate
> Note Misuse of this function can lead to a buffer overrun. We recommend the use of the safer PathCchCombine or PathCchCombineEx function in its place.
note that all of the above isn't wrong because it doesn't build stuff
user1804599
@fredoverflow Perl 5 de facto mascot is a camel.
it's wrong because it builds unnecessary stuff
> PathCchCombine Minimum supported client: Windows 8 [desktop apps only]
duh thanks microsoft
user1804599
10:34
Because of this:
@Elyse My message was a reply to orp :)
user1804599
@orlp At this point, you either fix LEMON, your use of it, or you accept the status quo
totally going to drop w7 to protect from buffer overruns
user1804599
@fredoverflow Oh.
10:35
@sehe the problem really isn't with lemon
@orlp Try modules :D
@Elyse But thanks for the explanation, anyway ;)
user1804599
I wish I were a camel.
in fact, it's cool that it doesn't touch unchanged files
How do O'Relly series match those animals with programming languages?
user1804599
10:35
I would have a life without worries.
(I can always touch (it) myself)
@Mr.kbok PatchCinchCombine
@orlp it's the way you organize your source dependencies. And if LEMON doesn't dictate the single .y your just doing it wrong :)
4 mins ago, by sehe
@orlp You should probably split the sources and attribute dependency correctly
@sehe I'm not certain what you're saying I should split
@chmod666telkitty Maybe they just use Google image search? If you type "Perl" into Google, you will get lots of camel pictures ;)
10:36
there's a single grammar .y that generates grammar.cpp (parser) and grammar.h (token IDs)
You are saying you change things that do not affect the tokens. Make it clear that you have token defs and other stuff so your build system can actually know the diffrernce
Hey, I just reduced some error messages from ~75 obscure lines to 4 lines with a meaningful error message :D
@R.MartinhoFernandes TutorialCinchCombine
@orlp Read my previous message then
user1804599
@fredoverflow I think Option#get should return Option[T], for consistency with Map#get:
user1804599
10:37
def get: Option[T] = this match {
  case Some(x) => Some(x)
  case None => None
}
@orlp OT: in make-land I usually solve warts like these with fake targets (.grammar-stamp, .tokens-stamp etc. And make it not trigger a recompile unless .y is newer than .cpp)
Ell
Ell
@orlp have you looked at restat in ninja?
restat
if present, causes Ninja to re-stat the command’s outputs after execution of the command. Each output whose modification time the command did not change will be treated as though it had never needed to be built. This may cause the output’s reverse dependencies to be removed from the list of pending build actions.
@Ell oh hey I need to use that for some things
perl 6 ... but applicable to many other languages
@Ell that's it!
cool thanks
Ell
Ell
10:42
No problem
I just read the manual ;)
@chmod666telkitty lol
@chmod666telkitty Nice one :D
not exactly pressing because ccache avoids a lot of redundant work but still
user1804599
10:45
What is this. :(
You got yourself a fan
user1804599
What a moron.
@orlp please post the question/answer combo on SO. There's no need to keep this info in the lounge because it was asked in the wrong place ;) /cc @ell
Ven
Ven
it's rambo!
user1804599
@GregorMcGregor may like the guy as he's from India.
10:48
@sehe I dno
I don't know how to succintly ask this
Rembo & Rembo was een absurdistisch televisieprogramma voor jongeren van Theo Wesselo en Maxim Hartman. Het programma werd van 1987 tot 1995 uitgezonden door de VPRO bij Villa Achterwerk. De bijbehorende slogan was: "Rembo & Rembo; bovenmaatse humor van de 1 na bovenste plank". == ProgrammaomschrijvingBewerken == In het humoristische kinderprogramma presenteren Rembo en Rembo, twee bijna kaalgeschoren mannen in blauwe pakken en felle overhemden, vanachter een klein geel tafeltje een veelheid aan verschillende sketches. Ze kondigen de fragmenten aan, leveren commentaar en vertellen ondertussen zelf...
and in the end it was a case of RTFM
user1804599
> VPRO
user1804599
IRTA "VARA" en schrok al.
Ven
Ven
@sehe i don't speak voor jongeren, sorry
10:48
wat een nederlands hier zeg
@orlp ... you asked it in the bloddy lounge. How was it not succinct enough
@jaggedSpire :P
@sehe because I rambled and you guys guessed stuff and at some point we hit the jackpot
cough
Just admit you're too lazy. Which is a shame because the question could have been there in the first place, and as you can see it's a thing that people frequently run into. I might do it myself later.
nah I'm working on it
I have an idea
10:51
:D thank you
the core issue is the multiple outputs
basically
@orlp But you can even gear the question to .y grammars (LEMON is not crucial here). This is a googlable entry that is bound that help many people out in the future
@orlp If you make it too abstract, people will just not find the question when they're looking for a way to fix their parser generation in ninja
10:53
@sehe I'll add an example
-3
Q: Finding average after replacing a value

RamI am trying to finding a average after replacing a character with a value, e.g. which is as follows:F Replace(Replace(Replace(Replace(Replace(Replace(Replace(FirstGrade,'A*',8 ),'A',7),'B',6),'C',5),'D',4),'E',3),'F',2) I need to find out the average after replacing this value. Many Thanks in...

that recursive function call on Replace ...
dammit. That's not recursive noob
think abstract!
just, think!
^
i love how the fact that she was frong is flying not over her head, but over the moon right now
10:58
0
A: Prevent ninja from rebuilding every dependency of multiple outputs

orlpAdd restat to your rule. From the documentation: restat If present, causes Ninja to re-stat the command’s outputs after execution of the command. Each output whose modification time the command did not change will be treated as though it had never needed to be built. This may cause the outp...

@sehe done
Ok, it's not strictly speaking recursion ... but it's the same principle with the stack
@orlp ow you posted @Ell's answer too
I guess that's fine for SO. The important bit
I can make it community wiki
or if ell really wants to I can delete and he can repost
IDC about rep, just wanted it done and correctly
@chmod666telkitty no, not at all.

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