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user1804599
4:03 PM
lol, my dad wanted to go to a fast food restaurant and then he complained it was disgusting
 
user1804599
like, what'd you expect
 
@rightføld What does it mean?
 
user1804599
Depends on the library/language.
 
That's my problem.
 
What does :: mean
What does : mean
What does + mean
 
user1804599
4:04 PM
@Jefffrey You can say that for every operator in every library/language.
 
It always fucking depends on the environment
 
+ means addition
 
user1804599
If you don't know what you're doing, you don't know what you're doing.
 
user1804599
And that's your problem.
 
: should mean "of type"
 
4:05 PM
lol
 
:: should mean preprend
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey Why? In elementary school : meant division.
 
There are about as many languages where they're opposite
 
It's not usually used as : in programming languages
/ is division
 
user1804599
Why not a horizontal bar between the operands?
 
user1804599
4:07 PM
@Jefffrey Many programming languages use :: for some kind of scoping resolution or member access.
 
yes
 
user1804599
Why should it mean prepend?
 
In Haskell :: is type operator and : is cons hth
 
and they use >> as bitshifting instead of the monadic >> meaning
so what?
I asked you what ::: means
 
user1804599
: for label master race.
 
4:08 PM
Can you find a meaning that is shared by at least 2 languages?
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey How can I tell? I don't know which ::: you're talking about.
 
lol
Operators are arbitrary hth
 
user1804599
There are many :::s like there are many .s and many ::s.
 
@rightføld The one which is shared between at least 2 languages
You pick the one that satisfies this requirement
 
omg who the fuck cares
 
4:09 PM
stfu cat
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey No idea.
 
It needs an operator and it needs to be similar to existing ones
::: satisfies both
Not like it would matter if it was anything else
 
Those are your requirements.
 
:cripes:
 
I'm happy you are able to meet your own requirements.
 
4:10 PM
Get an IDE
 
I don't even know why I picked up that topic, play obtuse on your own, have fun
 
for Haskell, with autocomplete, syntax highlighting and shit
 
+ has a universal meaning, it's addition between integers. then some other languages use it for something else, like string concatenation, array concatenation, etc... but at least it has a shared meaning
same goes for - or / or *
 
user1804599
like addition between floats
 
user1804599
or rationals
 
4:12 PM
It still fucking depends on the environment and the types and jesus christ
 
user1804599
or other numbers that may not be integers
 
user1804599
TIL the meaning of + depends on Jesus Christ.
 
Let the IDE figure out what library has this operator, and then read the manual
 
"It could mean anything, but WELL AT LEAST ONE ARBITRARY THING MIGHT BE THE SAME IF PLANETS ALIGN"
 
::: or the other shitty things like <<+>>, don't have any "universal meaning"
not a single one
 
4:12 PM
Because they don't need one
 
they are there two probably circumvent some language limitation
 
Your "universal meaning" means nothing in face of overloading
 
user1804599
I am homesick.
 
user1804599
Fuck Spain.
 
@CatPlusPlus so?
 
4:13 PM
lol
 
of course it depends on the environment
jesus
that's not the point
 
That's the entire point
Stop sperging about custom operators
 
user1804599
There are six points in :::.
 
custom operators are stupid
 
Every function is a custom operator hth
 
4:14 PM
depends on the environment :P
 
Whether it's called ::: and is infix or whargbrgl and is prefix makes precisely zero difference
 
it makes difference to reader
 
if the function name is well chosen the meaning can be better explained
 
user1804599
whargbrgl isn't a well-chosen name.
 
4:16 PM
compare vecAddition a b vs a !:><:! b
 
user1804599
Ewwwww make that a verb.
 
Remember that "similar to existing ones" bit
::: is deduceable, because : already means cons for lists
 
lol
Just call it. Vector.append a b
what's the problem
why do you have to stuff an operator there
 
user1804599
Make : overloadable!
 
Because you can
 
4:18 PM
or make : overloadable
 
or whatever
don't let programmers invent operators, please for the love of god
 
"I CANT FIGURE OUT WHAT THIS OPERATOR MEANS, MAKE THEM OVERLOADABLE SO I HAVE TO READ EVEN FURTHER"
 
wtf are you talking about
 
user1804599
abot
 
4:19 PM
I'm sure you can figure it out on your own
 
class XContainer c where
    (:) :: a -> c a -> c a
    ...
 
user1804599
That makes no sense.
 
user1804599
Not all containers can be prepended to.
 
> XContainer
replace X with how you want to divide containers
 
user1804599
4:20 PM
What does the X signify?
 
all XContainers clearly can.
 
user1804599
Please choose better names for your type classes.
 
give it a useful name, who cares
it's a class
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey you care
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey Nice observation.
 
4:21 PM
no, the point here is not the name of the fucking class, it's the fact that you could overload (:)
again, missing the point by a mile
 
C++ can overload stuff too
 
I have no idea how to make proper container classes
 
user1804599
You can't.
 
because I have no idea what parts container shares
 
user1804599
There are no operations common to all containers.
 
4:22 PM
C++ seems to be doing a pretty good job with container conceps though
 
user1804599
Maybe isEmpty but that's about it.
 
@rightføld that's why you need to split properties into different classes
not a single container class
@rightføld size
elementType
and so on
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey Not all containers can have their sizes determined.
 
user1804599
It'd be a silly requirement; the function may never terminate for some containers.
 
then you go to random access containers, in which you can define (!!) or whatever you want for index accessing
maybe make it so it depends on Container.IndexType so it works with maps too
don't you think this is possible?
 
4:25 PM
guys
 
smarter people can figure it out, like they did for C++
 
happy New Year and shit
 
user1804599
happy shit to you too
 
Hope you had a great one and another even better one is coming to ya!
 
happy new year
 
4:26 PM
C++'s Container requirements are no paragon of greatness
 
user1804599
@rubenvb Given Jefffrey still exists, this year is already terrible.
 
:c
 
@rightføld lol. Be nice, he may just grow up this year XD
 
user1804599
c:
 
Crazy question:
 
user1804599
4:26 PM
no
 
user1804599
 
no
 
i dun wanna grow up
 
youre the new thephd :P
 
4:27 PM
fuck adults
well, yeah
 
user1804599
Crazy Train
 
user1804599
Great song.
 
never fuck non-adults people
 
@Jefffrey fucking adults is usually the safest way to fuck yes
 
that might get you in jail
THAT'S WHAT I FUCKING SAID YES
 
4:28 PM
YOU POSTED THAT WHEN I WAS READY TO PRESS ENTER
 
NO NEED TO YELL
 
I'M NOT YELLING
 
YOU STARTED
 
user1804599
puppy how do you resolve names in a compiler
 
user1804599
I'm so confused.
 
4:28 PM
@milleniumbug who's the kid now?
 
depends on what semantics you want.
 
@ri
 
@do
 
@rightføld yeah I added the endaddress and it worked
 
user1804599
I got it working except for forward declarations.
 
4:29 PM
you have declarations? lol
 
user1804599
Uh I mean use of things that haven't been declared yet
 
user1804599
like
 
declarations are so 2014
 
your AST is wrong.
 
user1804599
let foo () = bar ()

let bar () = 1
 
user1804599
4:30 PM
Currently impossible since bar hasn't yet been defined in the body of foo.
 
user1804599
But I wanna make it possible.
 
you should parse all functions into a hash table, THEN perform analysis.
when it comes to look up bar, just look it up in the hash table and you will find it.
 
user1804599
Oh, I see.
 
user1804599
Currently it's a list.
 
yep, that's bad and broken.
 
user1804599
4:31 PM
Thanks.
 
well
 
GPU's should be leveraged to run compilers.
 
strictly you could make it work with the list if you parsed them all into the list and then very slowly linearly scanned it for the thing you want to find.
but that's pretty dumb really.
 
lists make for fast lookup, everybody knows that
 
@rubenvb GPUs would make terrible compiler execution units.
 
user1804599
4:32 PM
I know how I will do it now.
 
user1804599
For top-level definitions I'll add them immediately to the symbol table before proceeding with function body analysis.
 
yes.
 
user1804599
Then the problem is solved.
 
precisely.
 
user1804599
And then suddenly recursion is possible too. :P
 
4:34 PM
right, because when you look up the name, you just find it in the table like any other name.
just be careful to not recursively analyze the function every time, leading to infinite recursion in the compiler.
 
user1804599
No, I don't do that.
 
it will be somewhat tricky if you have return type inference.
since the body of the function depends on the analysis of the called function.
 
user1804599
I currently don't.
 
fair enough.
but you should know that I had to completely re-architect Wide to support that kind of feature.
so you might wanna think about whether you want it before settling on the design for your analyzer
 
user1804599
Scala requires explicit return types for recursive functions, which I think is quite reasonable.
 
4:36 PM
eh, the compiler can still figure it out in many situations.
 
@Puppy just convert every string into floating point representation, then massively parallel compile everything XD
 
user1804599
I don't like return type inference anyway.
 
Wide can handle various kinds of recursive function as well as return type inference even in the case of mismatched return statement types.
 
user1804599
Except for very short functions (i.e. a single line body).
 
4:40 PM
lol
 
"fuck you mom im jesus lol"
 
"dont u no who i am"
 
I keep swallowing saliva at a much faster rate than I use to
why
 
You're making more than you used to
It's probably just cancer
 
oh, I thought it was something serious
thanks god
 
4:48 PM
> The error seems to have happened because the national rail operator RFF gave the wrong dimensions to train company SNCF.
so an unfair meme ;p
 
bah
at this rate I'm gonna be eating custard and custard for dinner.
 
custard looks yummy
 
eat bread with buns
 
user1804599
Eat mustard.
 
mustard with bread is good
if it's good mustard
 
user1804599
4:58 PM
Just pure mustard.
 
user1804599
An entire jar.
 
spicy horseradish mustard
not that dijon + honey shit
 
user1804599
Compilation is a bid trickier though.
 
user1804599
Macros and functions can't depend on each other.
 
user1804599
So def foo() = bar!(); macro bar() = foo(); is illegal.
 
5:02 PM
are you making a language?
 
Hello
 
Hi
I feel like I should watch Lost again
 
@Gal1988 You may asj you question in English in my personal forum in ths section for beginners at www.cpp.forum24.ru if you need a help. — Vlad from Moscow 1 min ago
 
@Jefffrey seems you're feeling Lost
 
Just had to flag another rude (contains swearing) @Puppy comment. Guess, once again, I wasn't the only one as it vanished immediately.
 
5:09 PM
What rude comment?
"contains swearing" doesn't necessary imply "rude"
 
It does if you're not housetrained.
 
omg, is it only me, or the number of shitty questions/answers is larger than usual today? :0
 
it's just you
i have to go buy butter
 
then I should stop browsing them
 
@Jefffrey Comments on SO are no place for swearing at OPs and their code. Writing "this code is shit" is not acceptable.
Also, how can it be so difficult to find just five questions to answer ... gees
 
5:14 PM
@BartoszKP In particular meta is full of crap, (no - I mean even more so than usual).
 
@MartinJames :o I don't even wanna look at it
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit What do you use if the code is, in fact, shit?
 
the more you learn, the more SO becomes crap
 
@MartinJames "No offence but this code is currently of a rather low quality"
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lol
 
5:16 PM
but it is an offence
 
: D
 
@Jefffrey So are many of the questions.
 
everything is offensive, didn't you get the memo?
 
it's not an offence
 
@MartinJames at least they don't prepend the question with "no offence but"
which manages to be even more annoying than overused custom operators
 
5:19 PM
@Jefffrey :+=:
 
no offence
 
@Lightness Races in Orbit The spam is your comment because there is no any usefulness of the comment. You only bother others. As for me then I try to help and nothing more. — Vlad from Moscow 3 mins ago
lol
 
:DDD
 
HI VLAD! HAPPY NEW YEAR!
 
@MartinJames :<
 
5:20 PM
Oh shit. I forgot to run my new year's 'VladSpotter' competition.
 
:DDDD
Lightness was so lightening-fast that he won even before the competition has started
 
welp, butter and broth time
brb
 
@Jefffrey enjoy!
 
We're still bloated here from the post-Christmas discounted turkeyFest.
We've got through 2 large jars of cranberry sauce.
My spicy mustard is also looking a bit low.
 
I'm so sick of my phd project, that all my commits from the last 3 months are described as: "asdf" :o
 
5:30 PM
what happened?
 
@BartoszKP lol. you need a new project in your life. Dump the old one, get out more. Play the field a bit:)
 
@MartinJames hopefully that's the last weekend I'm working on it :)
@Jefffrey I've been working on this for the last 3-4 years, so I'm a bit bored with it, I guess ;0
 
what is it all about?
 
Hi all together. Thought I'll stay around here this evening a bit (even if I don't love chat very much). May come in handy. We have so much of robo upvoters araound seemingly
 
Hello
 
5:34 PM
wat
 
@Jefffrey broadly speaking, feature selection in reinforcement learning
 
@πάνταῥεῖ You can compensate for that by doing some robo chatting in here ;)
 
@BartoszKP reinforcement learning?
 
@honk Yeah s.th. like this ;-P ...
 
You can say "sith", we are all adults here.
 
5:36 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ Your reply "looks OK" ;)
 
@Jefffrey it's a small branch of AI - unsupervised learning, where the algorithm learns to control given environment by itself, through random interaction. Good actions are reinforced by rewards, bad are inhibited with penalty (heavily inspired by biology and psychology)
 
That's p interesting.
 
It's super interesting, but still these algorithms are too primitive to be broadly useful. Hopefully, some day ... :)
Well, they're quite elaborate in the mathematical sense, but they converge slowly for real world problems
 
@BartoszKP You just have to write a program based on reinforcement learning that improves your algorithms until they are broadly useful ;)
 
@BartoszKP Are you an expert in AI?
 
5:40 PM
@honk yes, that's an interesting concept known as the singularity point in AI development - we're still quite far from it ;)
 
@Puppy perhaps with broken MSVC?
 
@Cat found a .Task property on dispatcheroperation
 
Ah, and not to forget: A happy new and healthy, productive year 2015 for every one!
 
@Jefffrey Do you mean an expert in this AI?
 
@sehe Turns out that I was just incorrect.
 
5:43 PM
@Jefffrey Not in general I guess :) I studied some of its concepts, but in practice I've been doing only classification with neural networks/SVMs/decision trees etc. (work & msc project) and reinforcement learning (current phd work).
 
Jesus spent whole day on this stupid thing, what a waste of time
Shoulda played Dungeonmans
 
@Puppy I see you had some old-fashioned DeadMG fun there :)
Anyways the Live Coliru link told me it wasn't outrageously silly code anyways
 
I worked all day and had a great session. Taking monday off cos it is sprint meating & life reasons. Profit.
 
@Jefffrey Could you be more explicit about this joke. I'm no native speaker, and I'm eager to learn ;-) ...
 
@CatPlusPlus Blasphemy. If Jesus spent a whole day on this stupid thing, it just means that "blessed are the stupid things, for they shall inherit XXXXX"
 
5:46 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ I'm doing my best. I've only upvoted one question over the Christmas break - I was stunned to see code, inputs, outputs and error messages. I upvoted in a shock response:( I promise not to do it again.
 
@sehe That's literally not a joke repeated 100 times a day
Still very funny
 
@Jefffrey I wanted to see my AI knowledge in a broader context when the AI proposal was starting on StackExchange, but unfortunately it was closed down ;o
 
where's my fucking hat
 
@MartinJames I'd certainly not consider you being a robo upvoter. Sorry to make my 1st message more clear: I didn't mean the <c++ lounge> but that tag queue of course!
 
@BartoszKP I think so, too. Reminds me of this XKCD.
 
5:48 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ lol, yeah:)
 
@Jefffrey are you a mathematician?
 
he deleted at +0
 
lol, that was fast
 
Oh god @πάνταῥεῖ is here
look it's Saturday UTC and I've answered five questions. FFS
 
5:54 PM
right then
Puppy goes shopping, round two.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Yeah, as mentioned, I though I give it a try :-D ...
 
this time I shall bring my wallet so that I may actually purchase goods and/or services.
 
only @Puppy could go shopping and forget to take his wallet
probably considered it to be an arcane cultural something, or something
 
money/credit card is enough, no wallet needed ;o
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I've been tidying up my messy flat the whole day, instead of trying to tidy up that messy c++ queue (which sometimes seems to be much of a waste of time).
 
5:59 PM
@BartoszKP Put the money/credit card in a wallet.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit now, that's an arcane cultural something, or something
 
user image
2
 
@BartoszKP nah
@BartoszKP What book would you recommend for a broad look at AI?
lol
 
lol
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Don't worry about it. ;)
 
6:10 PM
@Jefffrey don't recall ever reading one book on the whole AI topic, but give me a minute
 
> A farm where you raise dogs
Dogs doing shopping
keep it going lounge
 
@Jefffrey But´I''m just eager to know. Well, I'm just a nerd (as all of the others around here I'd suspect). I know the term sith only from the Star Wars context. Is there any subtle beyond this?
 
my next game idea is building around dogs it seems
 
@AlexM. You mean, like, boarding kennels?
 
No, explaining jokes is terrible, sorry.
Especially when the joke itself is terrible to begin with.
 
6:17 PM
@Jefffrey OK, I spottet your 1st explanation just for long enough ;-) ....
@Jefffrey Typo of course ...
 
@MartinJames Already exists...
 
@Jefffrey And another one :-P (too drunk for keyboard it seems)
 
@AlexM. Edogexploded on line #4138: in-heat Yorkshire terrier bitch caged with Irish Wolfhound dog.
@honk lol, is he in here?
 
@MartinJames Don't know. Ask him ;)
 
@Jefffrey I recall this book is commonly recommended: Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach - I didn't read it, however looking at the table of contents it indeed covers most of the (if not the whole) AI field. In fact, I think that I'll order it myself now :) I know some of the first author's publications and he is a well known expert in AI.
@Jefffrey In the context of Machine Learning only (which also seems to be covered in this book) I really recommend free online course Learning From Data - this guy is great! His lectures are also available freely on youtube (and he also has his book on the subject).
 
6:30 PM
lol, 'I copied an assembly program from the web and it does not work'. What a surprise:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/27758135/assembly-program-for-boot-loader-wont-work
 
@BartoszKP danke :D
 
hf! :)
 
@MartinJames he couldn't even copy it without typos
 
6:46 PM
@Abyx Yeah. It's ORG'd in the wrong place and it's not a bootloader. It doesn't load anything from anywhere and execute it.
 
@MartinJames a farm with dogs that plays like the sims but with dogs
 
@AlexM. Sounds like fun. Try not to make it sound like a puppy-farm. They have a bad rep.
 
Puppy Sim!
@honk Puppy Sanctuary sounds like beastiality porn
 
omg, this book sure isn't cheap if you want hardcover :|
 
@CatPlusPlus I wasn't aware of that.
 
6:53 PM
All right, another part of Hellraiser. Hope it won't get worse than the previous one I saw :|
 
user1804599
 
> JavaScript is a powerful and flexible dynamic programming language with a beautiful simple associative model at its core.
what
 
user1804599
That's irrelevant.
 
user1804599
The library is good.
 
perhaps, but writing stupid things on their front page isn't very encouraging to use it ;0
 
6:57 PM
when you tell someone "mori" in Romanian you tell them to die
 
@rightføld Aaaw ...
 
"du-te si mori" = "go (and) die"
 

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