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23:00
@nightcracker Irrelevant. <iostream.h> was used before <iostream> was standardized.
Does that mean we should still use <iostream.h>?
@DeadMG am I being derpy at maths, or is not still the same percent error?
user1804599
@StackedCrooked Is ~' idiomatic? It looks silly.
@Griwes how is it irrelevant? a 1980 document stating "kilobyte" almost surely means 1024 bytes
@thecoshman No.
this is context
23:00
compare 10^9 with 10.24^9.
Idioms my have evolved by now. That was back in 2010.
user1804599
Ah, I see.
user1804599
Ah, ik zie.
@nightcracker We are in 2014. We are using the terms. A kilobyte is 10**3 bytes.
The fact that something 34 years ago called it kilobyte doesn't mean we should.
I never said we should
23:01
@DeadMG it's not 10.24^9 is it?
I'm just saying the meaning depends on context, one of which is age
@Griwes Well said! Now go forth and spread the word.
meaning of words changes of time, and you can't just say that "it means something different now, so old documents have changed meaning"
@thecoshman Well, 1000^3 or 1024^3, I think.
anyway
the real problem is that however standardized "kilobyte" is, the reality is different software, hardware, and specifications take it to mean different things.
IIRC Windows uses 1024 and hard drive manufacturers use 1000.
@StackedCrooked I wish I had the power to make it work.
23:02
@nightcracker It actually isn't just age.
@nightcracker If you are quoting? Sure.
Puppy is right.
well, at least they all agreed for it mean which ever way scams you the most
If you are using the term? Nope nope nope.
Only people who are bored argue about the pedantry of 1024 or 1000 for kilo/mega/whatever bytes.
23:03
@Rapptz You realize this is the lounge right?
@Rapptz It's not pedantry at all.
user1804599
@DeadMG OS X also uses 1000. Dunno what du and df use by default, though.
as the size factor goes up, the two diverge exponentially.
I'm sick of this discussion because it's been done a thousand times over.
@rightfold Back when floppy disks were in regular use, this kibibyte nonsense hadn't been invented yet.
23:04
@Rapptz Only people who want the English language at least quasi-formal and well defined argue about that.
@Rapptz Aren't you the one who is bored?
user1804599
Real hard drive manufacturers would define a byte as one bit.
But if you want your language not to be well defined... vOv
@StackedCrooked Not bored enough to argue about kibibytes or kilobytes.
Just don't be surprised people assume that you are speaking standardized meanings when you use standardized terms.
23:05
I hereby propose the kiwibite.
2
Because kiwis are yummy.
user1804599
I don’t like kiwis.
user1804599
They are terrible.
I mean the bird.
@StackedCrooked I think you have just won.
user1804599
I like tangerines and apples.
23:05
j/k
user1804599
Kiki.
@Griwes OTOH, the mere passage of 34 years doesn't mean that a perfectly good meaning should be abandoned either.
what about the wikibyte?
@JerryCoffin kilobyte is defined to be 1024 bytes. That meaning is not a perfectly good meaning anymore.
1000^4 is 10^12. 1024^4 is 1.1x10^12.
and as the factor goes up, the difference increases exponentially.
23:07
@DeadMG here we go. you're right, it does get more and more percentage difference
@nightcracker A wikibyte would mean whatever the most recent editor decided.
I hereby officially define the wikibyte as the number of bytes needed to represent the smallest set of URL's to get from the Wikipedia article of "kilobyte" to "philosophy".
if you're talking kibi vs kilo, then sure, it's immaterial.
but it's not going to stay that way.
user1804599
I would take 'kibibyte' more seriously if it didn't sound so much like 'Kibbles N Bits'.
2
we don't even agree on what a byte is.
23:09
it's 8 bits, realistically.
user3010322
Yeah.... just go with 1024. ._.
vOv hardware defined
oh lord, I've been AFK in MC for ages now :P
They could use mega-octet to indicate 1000*6.
And leave MB with the old meaning.
user1804599
I plead for 10-bit bytes.
user1804599
Easier to count.
23:11
I plead for bits that have 10 states.
user1804599
Quququququbits.
@rightfold Only for people who don't know their powers of two (who are obviously too ignorant to matter anyway).
decits cleary
we shouldn't talk about bits/bytes
8 bits should just be "a set with 256 elements"
user1804599
Indeed, we have more advanced abstractions than bits and bytes.
23:12
@nightcracker We should talk about trits and trites. But maybe the current conversation is sufficiently trite to make up for it.
user1804599
Let’s talk about hash tables instead.
@rightfold word
@JerryCoffin tits? tites?
@nightcracker teats.
@JerryCoffin ternary logic, or tristate electronics?
user1804599
23:13
Malbolge runs on a ternary machine.
std::forward<Args>(args)... expands to std::forward<T1>(t1), ..., std::forward<TN>(tn). Shouldn't std::forward<Args>(static_cast<Args>(args))... expand to std::forward<T1>(static_cast<T1>(t1)), ... std::forward<TN>(static_cast<TN>(tn)) ?
user1804599
0 exactly enough backticks.
@thecoshman Ternary. In tri-state the third state just means a hi impedance state that has minimal effect on a bus so you can support higher fan-out.
@DeadMG you've heard about those weird platforms that have 18-bit bytes. I wonder what they use a MB.
@JerryCoffin I know, hence I asked
23:14
they probably couldn't even dream about what an MB looked like.
The only thing we agree on is bits.
D used to have a bit data type i think
Maybe they use megabit in the networking world to save the headache of the MB discussion.
and bit iterators
LLVM has one.
23:16
@StackedCrooked Most such used relatively arbitrary units of storage. For example, the Control Data machines (both 36-bit and 60-bit) used "system resource units" (SRUs) for disk storage and "primary resource units" (PRUs) for processor time. One SRU was around 700 bytes, if memory serves.
@StackedCrooked ...and they normally refer to "octets" rather than "bytes" to prevent any possible confusion.
I can imagine.
@StackedCrooked It is good to know you have a functioning imagination. :-)
lol, that took my by surprise
It was not an assertion of ability.
@JerryCoffin ¬_¬ and then came endianess
what is cam?
23:20
I ca typ
@thecoshman ...and so it did.
Well, gotta go for a while. Have fun while I'm gone.
lol template<class... Args> inline auto swallow(Args...) {} and then swallow(std::forward<Args>(static_cast<Args>(args))...); works but without swallow it doesn't, in the other context expansion is not allowed -.-
23:36
dat moment when you write a minimal boost::any from scratch stackoverflow.com/a/21197931/85371
i cant have a function taking void arguments :(
indeed
@sehe do you know hold_any ?
@gnzlbg no. In what context?
boost::spirit::hold_any has SBO, boost::any hasn't
23:39
support/detail/hold_any.hpp
for the rest they are practically equivalent
It's a detail. Still, good mention. I half forgot about that
> Recently released NSA documents revealed the existence of SILKPATH, a network-based attack that copies consumer-grade routers. Senator Dianne Feinstein assured the public that the program is authorized by a section of the PATRIOT Act.
> Recently released NSA documents revealed the existence of SHIFTINGBROKER, a exploit toolkit that decrypts communications satellites. Senator Dianne Feinstein assured the public that the program is only used to combat terrorism.
This is is funny nsa-o-matic
I want to f(Ts())...; the trick with the empty function doesn't work because it cant take void arguments and my f might return void :/
back to square one
A bit of sfinae :)
i can't change f
is client code
23:44
Same difference
@gnzlbg IIRC you can do auto l = { (f(Ts()), 0)... };
Please always copy code as text into your question. — Nabla 26 mins ago
gosh
@AndyProwl yes you can :)
@AndyProwl make that f(Ts()), void(), 0)... then, in case f() returns something with overloaded operator, :>
@sehe Right, forgot about that. Thanks :)
23:46
lol, mean clients doing that deserve death
user406009
@sehe Someone should do that for a code-trolling question.
Most TMP solutions to even simple tasks look like code-trolling
user406009
Something like a picture of a coffee table with a printout of a screenshot of code.
lol @sehe thanks, someone might return a proto expression captured with auto which might have operator , overloaded
@Lalaland I did something very similar once:
11
A: any better way to implement this

seheFor fun, here's a constexpr version! template <int... denomination> static constexpr auto change(int amount) -> decltype(make_tuple(denomination...)) { typedef decltype(make_tuple(denomination...)) R; return R { [&]() { auto fill=amount/denomination; amount-=denomination*...

@gnzlbg (psst. if it's returned, it doesn't matter whether it was captured with auto). Also, many more ETs leverage operator,
23:51
i mean that instead of doing something like int f() { return ET; } someonecan write auto f() { return ET; }
@sehe Beautiful
Actually I don't understand how it can work in C++11, isn't the lambda's call operator non-constexpr?
It is not just a return statement
user1804599
@sehe this is already implemented for you, silly.

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