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sbi
6:00 PM
@TheBlueCat A C question? Wrong room.
 
Sorry, C++ is the largest most applicable room.
Is there even a C room?
 
You can't even C if there is one?
 
well did you see if it's the "geline" vs "getline"
 
PeterT: I don't understand your statement? I implemented my own function if that's what you're asking.
 
you declared "geline" but defined "getline"
there's a typo
 
6:02 PM
@TheBlueCat Ewww C
 
the top answer tells you so
 
@sbi Just an idea, but if f take its argument by value, and f_impl takes it as a non-const reference, then no implicit conversions are possible.
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked The problem is with enum/std::string::size_type. And the T/std::string argument I need to take per reference, as that will be read from/written to.
 
C is a lovely language
 
6:05 PM
For a very twisted definition of lovely, yes ;)
 
Implicit conversion is not allowed for non-const reference IIRC. Because that would effectively be a reinterpret_cast, I think.
 
Xeo
@sbi Take those by reference too! :P
@StackedCrooked Implicit conversions usually create rvalue (except for derived-to-base and const-qualificaiton conversions)
 
PeterT: I tried earlier, it's still not printing to cin.
 
sbi
Ah, fuck this, I'll go home and deal with that tomorrow.
 
@StackedCrooked Yes, there was a question about that recetly
 
6:06 PM
I find C easier to understand than C++. Besides, I don't think a language war is the best of ideas.
 
Xeo
@TheBlueCat C sucks as anything but the most fundamental protocol for comminucation between different languages.
 
@TheBlueCat yeah... it's funny that you can't print to your keyboard
 
@TheBlueCat did you actually input all 1000 or whatever MAXLINE is lines into the program
because it's not printing anything until you do
or well until you input an empty line
 
PeterT: it's from K&R, I'm 99% sure it's correct.
 
@StackedCrooked /cc @Xeo whats the reason for not allowing implicit conversions of non-const references?
I wanna write it down for future reference
 
Xeo
6:09 PM
@Borgleader huh?
 
sbi
BTW, I have approached HR about my problem with that idiot admin who stole 4 working days and two weekend days from me. That woman took that rather seriously, and escalated it to the managing director that is the boss of the IT. I'll have a meeting with him tomorrow where I'll explain my position. I am rather looking forward to that.
(The bad news is that this meeting will be at 8:30, while I only managed to get to work before 11 twice this week. But that's worth it.)
 
5 mins ago, by StackedCrooked
Implicit conversion is not allowed for non-const reference IIRC. Because that would effectively be a reinterpret_cast, I think.
 
Xeo
@Borgleader Oh, that. int& i = 32.0;
4 mins ago, by Xeo
@StackedCrooked Implicit conversions usually create rvalue (except for derived-to-base and const-qualificaiton conversions)
 
Xeo: C++ is pretty big. There's template, object, procedural, meta, generic. I like my languages to be small - I can concentrate on the logic instead.
 
sbi
@Borgleader The result of a conversion would be a temporary, and you cannot bind temps to non-const refs.
 
Xeo
6:11 PM
@TheBlueCat And on reinventing the world. Have fun.
(FWIW, I can concentrate on the logic in C++ too. Without having to reinvent the world.)
 
Ahhhh thanks for the explanation sbi/Xeo
 
Xeo: What do you mean by that? My getline function? It's simply practice.
 
@TheBlueCat if you have "hello\0" and reverse it to "\0olleh" then it will not print out anything?
 
Xeo
I see you're a typical C programmer. Explaining won't help in that case.
 
PeterT: great suggestion, thanks
Xeo: Please don't be so aggressive.
 
6:14 PM
You think Xeo is aggressive? Oh boy, wait 'till DeadMG shows up, you'll be in for one hell of a treat xD
 
Xeo
I'm not aggressive. However, if you don't see the problem with reinventing the world, there's nothing I can do. Also, yeah, fuck manual memory management. And fuck arbitary ~magic numbers~ (MAXLINE)
 
Amen to "fuck manual memory management"
 
@TheBlueCat shut up bitch
 
Xeo
@StackedCrooked lol
 
Xeo: I'm not, it's a damn K&R exercise. Do you fail to comprehend that?
 
Xeo
6:17 PM
FWIW, I didn't even look at your question until now. I'm talking about C in general.
 
Xeo: you quoted a define fro my program.
*from
 
Xeo
> until now
Also, please read the newbie hints for how SO chat works.
 
Ell
Off to the quiz, bye folks!
 
Xeo: Please learn how to treat other people over the internet.
 
Xeo
6:18 PM
lol
 
lol
Welcome to the lounge! (aka you came to the wrong neighborhood)
 
Here is our internet.
 
uh, I know this, the answer is "with contempt", right coach?
 
Xeo
@TheBlueCat I think I'm treating you just fine. Where is your problem with my responses?
 
(Hello ppl.) I am again this guy with weak english and weird function syntax proposal. Want to give me another 3 minutes? wrttn.in/feab7e
 
6:20 PM
Xeo: you're aggressive towards me, coining myself as a 'typical c programmer'.
When you failed to even read my question.
 
Oh no.
Not the function proposal again. D:
 
...
You want C to adopt this proposal too?
You're out of your Mind. C isn't changing anything.
Let alone C++.
 
@ThePhD I am not hurry.
 
@ShadowsInRain It's not about a hurry. C will never change its function declaration syntax.
never ever ever ever ever.
 
6:22 PM
Has C change anything in the last uh 10-20 years?
 
> For maximum efficiency, this syntax must be also adopted by C, so old syntax may be removed without totally breaking language compatibility.
Ahaha, you have no idea what compatibility means.
 
Xeo
@TheBlueCat Ahahahaha. You call that "aggressive"? Wow. Just wow.
 
It's not about compatibility between current C++ and current C revision.
 
It's about backwards compatibility with code that already exists in the ecosystem for your language.
 
Xeo
I highly recommend not staying in this room if you consider that as "aggressive".
 
6:24 PM
@CatPlusPlus What's wrong here? If old syntax will be replaced in C++ alone, it won't be compatible witc C because C++ compiler won't be able to parce C function syntax. Right?
 
C adopting that crazy new syntax or not is irrelevant.
 
Xeo: Yes, you had no reason to attack me. I stated C++ was a federation of programming paradigms and yet you still attack me. There was no need for that tone.
*attacked
 
Xeo
Ahahaha
 
Old code must work, so old syntax cannot be removed. It's that simple.
 
6:25 PM
Keep at it guys, this is definately going somewhere
 
14 mins ago, by TheBlueCat
Xeo: C++ is pretty big. There's template, object, procedural, meta, generic. I like my languages to be small - I can concentrate on the logic instead.
:laffo:
 
yet the linux kernel is the biggest opensource project on Earth.
 
Typical C programmer indeed.
 
@CatPlusPlus Well, may be it is time to "fork" C. :p
 
@CatPlusPlus: is there anything wrong with the above quote?
 
6:27 PM
Yes, implying that primitive, unhelpful languages like C allow you to concentrate on program logic.
When in reality they make you concentrate on irrelevant boilerplate.
 
no pizza for anyone.
 
@TheBlueCat Stripping language features does NOT allow you to concentrate on logic. Stripping language features means you need to focus more on how to accomplish a simple set of goals in your language using a limited feature pool. The code may be more consistent because it's primitive, but it certainly doesn't mean you get to be more logical about anything.
 
Oh yes! Let's try to remember the rules for auto or decltype - does auto or decltype return the compound type? /s
 
Buffer sizes, freeing memory, propagating errors.
Forget about C++ jesus.
It's not about "C is horrible, C++ is perfect".
They're both terrible.
But C is miles behind C++ on being a programming language that doesn't get in a fucking way.
 
Dunno, I love C++.
 
6:30 PM
@ShadowsInRain People tried that on C and C++. One turned into D. The rest were lost into the Abyss of Unuse.
 
can I multiply and divide and crap in SQL statements?
 
@ThePhD Trying multiplied with expirience = cnahce of new successive language. So, more trying at least.
 
New language for new projects is viable.
Trying to brand it "C++" is pointless.
 
Xeo
@TheBlueCat That question doesn't make sense.
 
@TheBlueCat What?
 
6:33 PM
Also seriously, using type inference (which is one of the top most useful things added to C++ recently) as an example of bad feature just says it all.
 
@ThePhD Presumably you mean "other than C# and Java."
 
Xeo
Wat. FF7 on Steam.
 
@Xeo FireFox 7? That's...pretty old.
 
Meh, it's basically the same FF7 re-fresh that was on the square enix store for a year now
 
@Xeo Since when?
 
Xeo
6:34 PM
@Borgleader Today, it seems.
 
oh cool
 
Xeo
> Release Date: 4 Jul 2013
 
backgrounds in FF7 are still ultra-low res
 
C is 'miles' behind C++ to an extent. Although, C has practical applications where C++ does not stand a chance (ie: system programming). More, C has been tested time and time again, similar to pascal in that sense. Both have advantages and disadvantages, it all comes down to the specific project.
 
Xeo
> (ie: system programming)
 
6:35 PM
@TheBlueCat Why are you trying to defend C in the C++ lounge?
 
Xeo
lol
 
You're better off trying to be a missionary in some atheist meeting
 
@TheBlueCat What wrong with Symbian, fro example?
 
hahaha
 
@TheBlueCat Actually, C++ stands a perfectly good chance for systems programming. Though they've mostly been experimental (i.e., not mainstream, nor ever intended to be), there have been a fair number of OSes written in C++.
 
Xeo
6:36 PM
@JerryCoffin Isn't Windows written in C++ by now?
 
user142019
@ShadowsInRain Symbian is best mobile OS.
 
The shell is.
 
@rightfold Written in C++
 
Xeo: that's not my point. The language is already huge, the extra rules are harder to remember as time goes on. K&R is 200 pages long - how long is a C++ primer? 1000-12000 pages?
*1200
 
@TheBlueCat The only practical application of C where C++ can't be used is environments where there is no C++ compiler.
 
user142019
6:37 PM
@ShadowsInRain Still best mobile OS.
 
user142019
Even though C++ sucks.
 
Xeo
@TheBlueCat That just shows that C is not simple, but primitive.
 
I wish I could use the CAD (Adesk Inventor) for drawing wpf paths
 
Trolls be trolling
 
Look at Java specification. Surprise awaits.
 
Xeo
6:37 PM
@CatPlusPlus Hey, I was just about to say that!
 
@Xeo I dunno. From the beginning, it had parts written in C++ (especially the graphics subsystem). There are definitely serious limitations on C++ features you can use in device drivers though, so I'd guess most of the kernel is (at least) equally constrained.
 
C is not much simpler than C++ anyway.
There's still shitloads of quirks and undefined behaviour at every turn.
 
C strings are horrible
 
Xeo: Why is C++ so complicated?
 
Also VLAs. Tell me this is simple.
 
6:39 PM
@CatPlusPlus C is mostly for people who like deluding themselves that they know the whole language (but ask them what a "tentative definition" is, and they'll give you a blank stare).
 
user142019
@TonyTheLion C++ strings are horrible
 
Everything is horrible
 
user142019
Horribleness is horrible.
 
C spec is 700 pages fyi.
 
user142019
Go is simple. :>
 
6:40 PM
C++ is 1300.
 
I hate the #include directive for C and C++ - it's awful.
 
Xeo
@TheBlueCat What's especially complicated about it?
 
And that's mostly because C has useless standard library that lacks everything, and has less features in general.
 
user142019
@TheBlueCat Use D.
 
@CatPlusPlus C++ is the worst offender. iostream is much bigger than stdio.h
 
6:42 PM
ahahahahah
 
user142019
@TheBlueCat And they're both equally terrible so it doesn't matter.
 
So? It's also generally type-safe and less prone to misuse.
 
comparing file sizes, lol
 
Also it's generic and extensible.
 
don't tell you like functions like strstr or strlen or strchr
fuck me, I can never tell what they do
 
6:43 PM
Bugs. :v:
 
@TonyTheLion strpbrk and strcspn :)
 
you can't even pronounce the damn things
 
Having a huge binary is not 'great' for AVR/other microcontrollers.
 
And that's a conclusion about what, exactly?
And based on what?
 
@CatPlusPlus He's implying C++ === ~~bloat~~
 
6:44 PM
@TheBlueCat we have a very large code base where I work, yet the binary produces isn't that large, a few 100k, IIRC
 
Yet you're still implying that C++ is a system programming language to the extent of C.
 
@TheBlueCat Complicated C++ templates may collapse to zero butes of code, still providing high-level abstractions.
 
so that's irrelevant
 
@TheBlueCat You're yet to prove it's not.
 
@JerryCoffin Oh, yes. C# and Java survived.
 
6:45 PM
Anecdotal @TonyTheLion
 
But hey, feel free to write in C.
It's your time and energy you're wasting.
 
Java because it was steroided by Oracle. :3c
 
Just never ship any code, ok?
It's bound to be terrible.
 
@CatPlusPlus Sometimes that's not an option to choose against C. =[
 
Already writing a driver in C, sorry.
 
6:46 PM
For example, the Microcontroller I'm working with doesn't compile C++. ;~;
 
@TheBlueCat Are you just dismissing valid examples because they don't stack up with your beliefs?
 
@ThePhD And no way for cross-compilation?
 
@Borgleader C programmers are bad at programming.
 
@Borgleader No, it's anecdotal and baseless.
I don't think AVR provides a C++ compiler (they use gcc, so perhaps).
 
@ShadowsInRain No, because no cross-compiler would know the instruction set for my specific microcontroller except the C compiler that they're shipping with.
 
6:47 PM
*a
 
@ThePhD You can always write back-end for LLVM. Theoretically. xd
 
still getting used to editing comments
 
I can't express with words how much I don't care about shitty microcontrollers.
 
@TheBlueCat Yeah, and have it useful. ONly for one microcontroller.
@CatPlusPlus If I'm gonna make my automatic door opener, I have to. x3
 
@CatPlusPlus You're being sarcastic, correct?
 
6:49 PM
But I agree with you. I wish more low-level providers used Clang or something, like PS4 is going to with its Dev Kits.
 
Thanks a bunch, loungers. I've pizza'd myself up to 92.5kg.
 
@TheBlueCat Not really, no.
 
92.5 kg sounds really high.
 
user142019
If an architecture has no LLVM back-end, it's nonexistent.
 
I can't believe you called a microcontroller 'shitty'.
 
6:50 PM
Isnt that like... borderline 200 lbs? That's pretty big. Then again, I don't know how old you are, how tall you are, etc.
 
@ThePhD no you don't
 
@TheBlueCat Microcontrollers are shitty to program on.
@thecoshman Okay, I'll use VHDL. >_>
 
@ThePhD There are C++ compilers that produce K&R C as output (e.g., Comeau).
 
@ThePhD python on a pi
 
I have an Arduino (ATmega) that I program on, it's a different style to writing C/C++ code on a desktop machine.
which I like.
 
user142019
6:51 PM
@TheBlueCat All microcontrollers are shitty.
 
user142019
All microcontrollers are shitty.
 
user142019
All microcontrollers are horribly shitty.
 
user142019
@StackedCrooked Perfect.
 
Gool 'ol bit-twiddling.
 
6:51 PM
@JerryCoffin I don't have Comeau. :c Is it free?
 
@ThePhD 57, 192cm.
 
user142019
@TheBlueCat Good ol' bit-twiddling in a language that has no binary fucking literals.
 
user142019
Yes, really fun.
 
Xeo
@StackedCrooked What's that detail::return_type for? :s
 
You've distracted me from writing my driver.
 
6:52 PM
Usually, I'm under 80kg in summer.
 
How do you avoid obvious mistakes, like not clearing the screen?
 
user142019
 
@ThePhD No, but it is fairly inexpensive ($50). There is one not so minor problem though: they haven't responded to my emails in quite a while, so I'm not sure it's really still available.
 
user142019
And never come back ever again. Go work on your driver instead.
 
@Xeo hm.. not sure anymore.
 
6:53 PM
@JerryCoffin Oh. So it's another company that died...
@JerryCoffin My guess? export killed them. :3c
 
I'll be making more appearances, au revoir Xeo.
 
@TheBlueCat It's an adjective, but yeah, in general they are.
 
@ThePhD Maybe -- their web site is still up, so I'm hard put to say they're really dead.
@ThePhD how would export have killed them?
 
@CatPlusPlus To which post was that aimed at?
 
@JerryCoffin All that implementation time to make export work.
@JerryCoffin Maybe "comatose" is a better word?
 
To the one that's linked duh.
 
@ThePhD Most of the time was done by EDG, not Comeau themselves.
 
Xeo
@StackedCrooked mh
 
I forgot why I stopped using VS2013.
There was some glaring error I couldn't deal with...
... OH YEAH. That elevated some stupid -1U warning to a compiler error for some shitty reason.
 
@Xeo Although it's pretty pointless code.
 
6:56 PM
@TheBlueCat When replying to someone you can use the little arrows that appear to the right when you hove over the message. When you reply in such a manner if I hover your message it will highlight the one you are replying to.
 
Xeo
@StackedCrooked mh
 
TIL Americans celebrate the wrong day
 
That is new news?
 
user142019
@ThePhD Warnings don't exist.
 
user142019
There are only errors.
 
6:57 PM
I mean, ugh, unsupervised environments with less than 1GB RAM. It's like 2000 all over again.
Time to stop using plain text files all over my HDD for TODO lists.
 
@Pawnguy7 today I learned
 
Oh. I was pretty sure I heard that here before.
 
@CatPlusPlus Make an app to write them for you. :D
@rightfold Well, VS2013 elevated -1U to an error for some dumb reason and now lots of code is freaking out, along with other small things that are apparently illegal in the VS2013 preview.
 
@thecoshman No real "right" or "wrong" involved -- the basic idea was proposed on the second, but wasn't approved until the fourth. You could make perfectly reasonable arguments for quite a few other dates as well. What of it?
 
user142019
@CatPlusPlus I use Tasks in Gmail, works pretty well.
 
user142019
7:07 PM
Requires Internet connection though.
 
Wunderlist.
 
@rightfold ...and as Sony educated us all to know, that means it's evil!
 
Also Toggl for time tracking.
 
@JerryCoffin well, according to my one source, independence was granted on the 2nd, but not officially signed about until the 4th. I can't really see what other dates you could consider. Still, it was an interesting video non the less
 
look at that advert... ^
Vim's official website LMAO.
 
7:10 PM
What about it?
 
@thecoshman Independence wasn't "granted" on the second at all. Great Britain didn't recognize independence until the Treaty of Paris was signed in 1783. They even treated that as sort of provisional though, and didn't consider it truly finalized until the Treaty of Ghent, in 1814.
 
how many times am I going to get bit with Foo() vs Foo before I brighten up...
 
@CatPlusPlus it’s a company that sells lingerie and sex toys … not very targeted on a programming tool website
 
@KonradRudolph ads aren't only targeted to the site and you have no clue whether he got served that ad based only on the site or based on other things he searched
 
@JerryCoffin huh... red tape huh :P
 
7:15 PM
@PeterT Are you trying to say searched for that stuff?
 
@ShuklaSannidhya you don't have to, clicking one link that has anything related to it on the site, along with a doubleclick ad will do that
click the little blue "i" in the corner
to read more about it
 
@PeterT Normally ad providers give you some degree of control over what’s displayed on your site, though …
 
Like it?
 
@KonradRudolph well then maybe they didn't exercise that degree of control, maybe the company that made the ad just set it to "adult male youths"
 
7:21 PM
@thecoshman You could equally make arguments for the real date being earlier: the rebels had taken control of essentially all the British colonies by June. The British navy invaded New York, and at times various other cities along the coast, but most of the "country" was effectively independent before July.
 
@JerryCoffin and oh, if we are getting anal about these things, america never got independence from 'Great Britain', as that island never had a claimon America. It would have been the British Empire.
well...
actually I am not so sure about the state of the term 'Britian' during that time period...
 
@thecoshman Nor am I. The current situation is confusing enough.
 
@JerryCoffin gcp?
 
was my guess too
 
Great Britian is a simple enough term, it is an island. job done
 
7:25 PM
and it actually is
 
but yeah, I suppose I am English, British and European all at the same time :P
Though I have sort of defected :P
¬_¬ template classes work better when you do not put the template line in the right place
 
@thecoshman what?
 
Right now, I'm very tempted to walk to the convenience store and buy a packet of cigarettes
 
Xeo
Ahh, the smell of Vla is fucking amazing.
@TonyTheLion Don't give in!
 
@TonyTheLion don't so stupid. Rum is the solution.
 
7:32 PM
Must not be tempted
 
@melak47 I put the template<type T> by the constructor rather than the class definition
 
@JerryCoffin I have a migraine now
 
@thecoshman I'm not sure that's actually true. At least as I recall, some colonies were British Empire, but others were "Crown Colonies", which (if memory serves) means there were claimed on behalf of the country of England rather than on behalf of the empire. Didn't mean much at the time, but the inheritance rules were complex enough that in theory, at some point one person could have inherited as King of England, but somebody else as Emperor of the British Empire.
 
o_0 it's not that bad... try the one on the EU
 
7:36 PM
@JerryCoffin Crown Colonies is the 'modern' term for those places
 
Just for example, Duke Ferdinand (whose death triggered WWI) was the son of the man who was King of Austria and Emperor of the Austria-Hungary empire -- but because of different inheritance rules between the "kingdom" and the "empire", if he'd lived long enough he'd have been king of Austria, but not the emperor -- somebody else had a better claim to rule Hungary.
 
But that is not England / the UK (of GB and NI) / the crown etc.
 
user142019
> /b/
 
user142019
@TonyTheLion Spitfire is worst pony.
 
7:40 PM
@thecoshman No, it's not but roughly similar situations applied -- he was emperor by "virtue" of inheriting as king of each of England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland, but each had slightly different rules about who should inherit. It was (at least theoretically) sort of happenstance that the same person happened to fit the separate rules for all four (though in reality, it was sometimes a matter as much of murder as happenstance).
 
okay, I finished The Wasp Factory. Whoa.
 
I did not come from a factory!
 
@JerryCoffin The factory isn’t where wasps come from … [spoilers]
 
7:45 PM
@TonyTheLion what about @BartekBanachewicz
 
my computer idles at 85C :(
 
@JerryCoffin yes but the ruling monarch of England is also the monarch Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland ... and the the rest of the Empire. AFAIK There is no dispute over who is the Crown and who is the Emperor... other than when there is a problem with who is the monarch... but it's been some times since such problems
 
@KonradRudolph Did you like it?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes, enormously. After not really liking Consider Phlebas I was extremely surprised how well-constructed, well-written and just all around likeable (if weird) this book is
 
I have all his sci-fi, but The Wasp Factory convinced me to get his other stuff too.
 
7:51 PM
@Aboutblank Those radially arranged aerofoils are supposed to spin round.
 
@thecoshman didn't know he was into ponies
> That cats are secretly forming an uprising
of course we are (@CatPlusPlus)
 
Too lazy, don't care.
 
Uprising? What is rising up, exactly?
 
@TonyTheLion he's the hipster bronie IIRC
 
@MartinJames You don't want to know.
 
7:53 PM
@CatPlusPlus Yeah - especially if it invoves cats AND ponies.
Maybe I should go now.
 
@CatPlusPlus oh you!
@thecoshman orly
 
Xeo
@KonradRudolph The synopsis does sound crazy.
 
@TonyTheLion meh
 
I only ate half my pizza, so I think I've earned a beer. BFN.
 
@Xeo Oh, trust me, the synopsis does not even begin to show how fucked up the main character is.
 
7:55 PM
@Xeo It is. Totally.
 
Well, every important character is fucked up.
 
@thecoshman It has been quite a while, but the ruling houses of England and Scotland weren't united until 1603. In the 1700's, I believe (at least on an official level) the pieces were still more autonomous.
@MartinJames Far too harsh a punishment for merely leaving half a pizza uneaten.
 
@TonyTheLion That is one of those gifs that has sound.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes o_0
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes What?
 

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