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8:00 PM
What is terrible about CSS?
 
user142019
Nothing except everything.
 
user142019
First of all, no nesting. a { .foo { … } } is no no.
 
no variables
 
user142019
Second of all, you cannot select parents. a > b > c:hover:parent /* nope, sorry */. Will be fixed in CSS 4, though.
 
@Doorknob What would one use variables for?
 
user142019
8:03 PM
No expressions.
 
user142019
I cannot do width: 50% - 42px;. Will also be fixed in CSS 4 AFAIK.
 
 .something { background-color: myCol; }
 .somethingElse { background-color: otherCol; color: myCol; }
 /* etc. */
 
@Doorknob I can see your point... is this a big issue? Never made anything large.
 
yes, no expressions also
 
CSS 4 is planned?
 
8:04 PM
@Pawn kinda. It becomes hard to manage colors eventually
 
yes
 
user142019
@Pawnguy7 There's a draft already.
 
user142019
@Doorknob LESS has variables and also functions to manipulate colors (such as lighten, darken, mix etcetera). :>
 
yes, yes, I know. I just like to use normal non-librariaic (is that a word) stuff.
 
8:05 PM
Are they also planning HTML 6? I feel like both of those were supposed to be the final versions (you know, again). Or maybe it was just HTML 5.
 
user142019
Probably.
 
Ahaaa!
I've got a BRILLIANT naming scheme going.
 
user142019
I don't really give a damn about web development.
 
@ThePhD ?
 
Region will be for Rectangles that are defined by a location and a size.
 
8:06 PM
ok
 
Rectangle will be for items that are defined by a minimum and a maximum point.
 
Well, there is certainly much potential for it - take this chat, for example. Going forward with good HTML, CSS, Javascript, etc would be useful.
 
Both Region and Rectangle will have templated versions that take a T.
Then I will typedef the common ones.
 
@Pawn "good?" 1.) What's not "good" about it now? 2.) What does that even mean
 
Yaaay, it's coming together in my head~
 
8:07 PM
yaaaay clap :P
> No work is currently happening on HTML6 but feature request that are not planned to be addressed in HTML5 are available at listed under HTML.next. We're encouraging the group to begin discussion of requirements for future versions of HTML after May 2011.
 
@Doorknob You and Zoidberg just pointed out shortfallings of CSS. Javascript DOM is... well, not the best.
 
html5readiness.com <-- I hate you IE8. Always making me add support for you. >:(
 
user142019
IE is retarded and FUBAR.
 
user142019
No, IE 10 won't be good. No, IE 11 won't be good either.
 
user142019
IE makes front-end developers want to kill themselves.
 
8:14 PM
yaaaay more people who agree with me :D
 
user142019
Everything works great and awesomely in all browsers.
 
user142019
Until you check in IE.
 
user142019
lolwot
 
GASP
IE IS THE WORST WEB BROWSER EVER kills self :P
but it's good for jokes:
27
Q: Stack Exchange sites look TERRIBLE in Internet explorer

Kalamane Possible Duplicate: Which browsers are officially supported? And what else do I need? ...Three. It even causes a General Protection Fault! Please fix this.

 
user142019
 
8:16 PM
yeah, browsing through that tag is :P
 
user142019
Meh movie is over.
 
sbi
My current understanding of how the compiler finds candidate functions (is that their official name, BTW?) for unqualified calls 1) in the current namespace, 2) in the namespace surrounding that, 3) in the namespace surrounding that, if any, and recursive up to the global namespace, 3) in the namespaces of the arguments and their surrounding namespaces. Is this (somewhat) true?
 
user142019
@sbi Look it up in the 19 pages in the standard that specify it! With a thousand references to other sections in the standard!
 
user142019
@ScottW Bellicher: cel.
 
sbi
@Zoidberg See, that's why I drop in here and annoy you guys with this.
 
user142019
8:20 PM
c:
 
how to post a message and wait for its execution in (boost.)asio? i.e. I want something like auto token = io_service.post(message); token.wait();
 
user142019
@ScottW Goed. Heel goed.
 
user142019
One of the bestest movies I have seen.
 
user142019
It's in Dutch so I hope you're still good at it. :P
 
well, I can do it with condition_variable and mutex, but I hope there is a simpler way
 
user142019
8:23 PM
@ScottW You can watch it for free here. It's five episodes.
 
-2
Q: WYSIWYG Designer

user2180214I'd like you to check this web designer created using Knockout.js, JQuery JQueryui and other cool js plugins. It's part of a Javascript framework WUIC, i developed in the last year. You can create pages and dashboards using HTML, SVG, 3D primitives (for 3D your browser need to support WebGL and...

 
sbi
Hey, is none of you standard-reading mad men here to answer my question? @R.Martinho, @Xeo, @Dead?
 
user142019
 
user142019
Maybe in form.
 
Oooooh, you want @Xeo. I stay away from overload resolution as much as possible.
 
Xeo
8:24 PM
@sbi I really recommend watching the first three Core C++ videos. It's all explained there. Or atleast skip through them :s
 
user142019
So basically you have to watch three videos in order to understand overload resolution in C++.
 
user142019
:P
 
Xeo
STL just explains it really well
Overload resolution is relatively complicated
 
sbi
@Xeo Damn you! I need to tell them something about this by noon tomorrow! I know the topic is complicated, last time I looked (about a decade ago, really) the C++ Primer spent 20 pages on this, and I had forgotten most of the first 15 when I finished those. That's why I need to boil it down to "not quite true, but true enough, and much simpler".
 
user142019
@ScottW you can select Flash if you click "Instellingen".
 
Xeo
8:27 PM
@sbi Should the explanation also include the template parts?
 
sbi
@Xeo Nope. No templates at that point.
 
If I have this, where wordList is a vector...
 
user142019
lol
 
index %= wordList.size();
How does index get out of range?
 
Xeo
k, then atleast you don't need to deal with template argument deduction and associated namespaces of template arguments..
 
user142019
8:27 PM
@Pawnguy7 size is zero and UB.
 
@Pawnguy7 Maybe index is negative?
 
TIL %= exists
 
@Zoidberg UB?
 
@Pawnguy7 Undefined Behavior.
 
Undefined behavior
 
8:28 PM
ah
 
sbi
@Xeo Oh, are those (the latter ones) in that, too? No, I don't want to deal with that. I'd say that, if what I say is 90% of the truth when you omit templates, then it's well enough.
 
Xeo
@Borgleader I have ++_cur_player %= _players.size() in my code somewhere :)
 
size is always 3
 
user142019
68
A: Is delete[] equal to delete?

sbiWhether this leads to a memory leak, wipes your hard disk, gets you pregnant, makes nasty Nasal Demons chasing you around your apartment, or lets everything work fine with no apparent problems, is undefined. It might be this way with one compiler, and change with another, change with a new compil...

 
user142019
^ Good explanation of UB.
 
8:29 PM
I know what it is, I just never saw it abbreviated. Didn't occur to me.
It has bit me more than once.
Funny explanation though :D
 
Xeo
@sbi Well, if you have namespace X{ struct A{}; void f(std::vector<A>); }, an unqualified call to f(some_a_vec); from outside X will find X::f.
 
user142019
Aren't there special cases with friendship too?
 
Xeo
heh, those are fun. A function that is only declared as a friend declaration can only be found via ADL
 
sbi
@Xeo WTF is that even? Hell, I am at the end of a 60hr slide-making rage, and I am in no mood to discuss funny corner cases.
 
Xeo
@sbi I think it's pretty useful.
 
sbi
8:32 PM
@Xeo Not for newbies, dammit! Can you please tell me if what I said up there is mostly true?
 
I was cout debugging, and I had std::cout << "index"; Apparently my version of finding index :\ sigh
 
@Ell All I saw of that was "Thhttp://" and "webgl cubes" before it disappeared...
 
user142019
> C++
 
user142019
> I am in no mood to discuss funny corner cases.
 
Ell
But it's not that interesting :P
 
user142019
8:32 PM
@Ell renders quite smoothly.
 
Ell
It certainly does
150,000 cubes is a fair few
 
user142019
42 FPS
 
user142019
On a crappy Intel GPU.
 
2 FPS :(
 
@ScottW Yeah I know about those, Ive seen them before, but I had never seen %= before today
 
Ell
8:33 PM
65 fps
but it stutters o.O
 
ah, right, I can use that std::promise thing
 
Ell
I wonder what's causing the stuttering
 
I have the worst GPU in existence. :P
 
Xeo
@sbi ADL only looks at the exact namespace of the argument.
 
sbi
@Xeo Ah, no going up into surrounding namespaces? Thanks, that would have been a major blooper.
 
8:35 PM
@Zoidberg I get 60 in chrome but i think it's vsynced
 
Xeo
Otherwise, I think the explanation is ok.
 
user142019
I should try on my iMac.
 
user142019
It has a superior GPU.
 
Ah. I typed "wordList" instead of "words"... but they should be the same size O.o
 
sbi
@Xeo Thanks. If only I still had the energy to make half a dozen slides out of this namespace shit. But I am totally tired, and have to be up by 6am, and on the bounce from 9am to 5pm, and really need to stop worrying now-
 
Xeo
8:36 PM
@sbi: Note that overload resolution will not prefer functions found via ADL.
They're equally considered with all the others.
 
Also... I am making text-based hangman. I have three test words... I have to keep looking back at the source code to remember what they are when guessing :D
 
sbi
@Xeo Oh, is that true?
Really, the C++ lookup rules are so bad, they should be renamed to "fuckup rules".
8
 
user142019
@Pawnguy7 Use a debugger.
 
sbi
@Xeo No way I'm going to look at that.
 
Xeo
8:38 PM
@sbi I don't think so. They try to model an intuitive result as close as possible, and I think they achieve that most of the time.
@sbi It's just a simple example snippet!
 
@Zoidberg Ah. I was, actually... not sure why I didn't look.
 
@sbi @Xeo What is a polite way of thanking someone who invites you for dinner in Germany? Offer something in particular?
 
Xeo
Before or after dinner?
 
sbi
@Xeo That they really do. But where they diverge from my intuition, all hell breaks lose.
@Cicada That really depends on whether it's a students, your professor, or Mrs Merkel. You might want to spend a few words on describing the occasion and how you know the person who invited you.
 
Xeo
heh
 
8:40 PM
@sbi A superior
Probably for analraep
 
sbi
@Cicada That's a bit meager. Are you looking for actual German phrases? A gift to bring? Whether you are supposed to invite the person reciprocally?
 
user142019
@Cicada Dankeschön. :v
 
ARGH why won't stuff work >:(
 
Obviously your stuff sucks :P
 
sbi
8:43 PM
@Cicada Google's first page is inconclusive about "analreap". It seems to be a meme, but it escapes me.
 
user142019
@Doorknob Because you use inferior tools.
 
@StackedCrooked That is extremely true :P
 
sbi
@Zoidberg You consider his head a tool?
 
@Zoidberg don't start about this again XD
 
user142019
You don't hammer in nails using a screwdriver, so you don't write programs in HTML 5.
 
8:43 PM
@sbi It's an intentional misspelling of analrape.
 
@Cicada oh god....
 
@Zoidberg I'm making an HTML5 thing. I don't know C++.
 
user142019
Anyway. Time to sleep.
 
sbi
@Cicada See, girl, this is where my interest in your social problems suddenly dwindles, and I remember that I am tired and that there's going to be a lot of demand on me tomorrow. Good night.
 
@Cicada WTF is wrong with you.
8
 
8:45 PM
I now realize why it is a bad idea to have variables wordList and wordListCopy. Or, I am not thinking straight currently. Not sure which.
 
Xeo
No Chatroom For Old Apes.
 
Aw.
 
Xeo
@sbi G'night, silver hair back
 
@sbi Schlaf gut! ;)
 
@sbi Niiiiight. <3
 
8:46 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Schalven?
 
@sbi You're getting too old
 
@Pawnguy7 I realized (when I first started programming) that naming variables "a," "b," "c," etc. "to save typing" was a terrible idea XD
 
:)
@Cicada Get out
 
I just downloaded most of Smooth McGroove's stuff. ._.
 
@Cicada Pff you're not even trying
 
8:47 PM
@Doorknob I never did that myself, but I have like five variables starting with word - which is correct, they are related to variables, but I keep using the wrong ones in the wrong places.
 
:P
 
@Pawnguy7 That means your types suck
 
"Let me see... ah, yes, wordList.size(). Runtime error? Oh, yes, words.size()"
@CatPlusPlus Types?
 
user142019
In computer science and computer programming, a data type or simply type is a classification identifying one of various types of data, such as real-valued, integer or Boolean, that determines the possible values for that type; the operations that can be done on values of that type; the meaning of the data; and the way values of that type can be stored. Overview Data types are used within type systems, which offer various ways of defining, implementing and using them. Different type systems ensure varying degrees of type safety. Formally, a type can be defined as "any property of a progra...
 
8:50 PM
@sbi ADL can actually look in many, many places, like the namespaces of template parameters, and such things. Also, don't forget member functions.
 
Xeo
Btw @R.MartinhoFernandes, what are your thoughts about the compare_by code?
23 mins ago, by Xeo
k, then atleast you don't need to deal with template argument deduction and associated namespaces of template arguments..
 
@EtiennedeMartel: Holy shit, Flash vs Innovation, was good. And now (MC vs Life) vs Flash.
 
Well, if it is THAT kind of type, I did not make types. Just using std::string and a vector of the former.
 
@DeadMG Flash OP
 
user142019
@Pawnguy7 std::string and std::vector<T> look quite a lot like types to me.
 
8:52 PM
@Borgleader Honestly, I watched the games, and Innovation had a serious chance of beating Flash.
he just made a couple of critical blunders
 
Yeah, they're both OP he 3-0ed everyone else
 
Ok, technically, I made a type. But I didn't make the template :D
 
I'm not saying that Flash did not deserve to win, but I am saying that Innovation could have won it.
 
I want Life to win. FOR THE SWARM :3
 
I just moved two lines of code and ALL 3 problems that I was having disappeared. >:( I HATE MYSELF :P
 
8:54 PM
javascript?
 
yes
 
user142019
Use CoffeeScript or Fay.
 
Also... wtf 107k viewers o.o
 
user142019
Also LESS.
 
user142019
I can't imagine myself doing front-end web development without LESS and CoffeeScript anymore.
 
8:55 PM
I don't like javascript. It silently dies. Ok, so I was representing a grid with types using characters, say 'w' for water. Well, why was it screwed up? Because one of the characters passed to the method was undefined, so it literally inserted "undefined" into it...
 
@Zoidberg Why not dart?
 
@Pawn Lol
 
user142019
@Pawnguy7 use a decent browser you fool.
 
user142019
One with a console and developer tools.
 
Define decent browser.
 
8:56 PM
@Zoidberg all browsers do that
 
user142019
@Borgleader what is dart.
 
I used chrome.
 
imo chrome's the best
(F12 and Inspect Element)
 
user142019
@Pawnguy7 Chrome has Web Inspector.
 
user142019
So JavaScript doesn't "silently die".
 
8:56 PM
@Zoidberg dartlang.org
 
user142019
You can view error messages.
 
(F12 -> Console)
 
There was no error message.
 
user142019
You probably used == then.
 
user142019
Use Fay if you want a decent (and I mean really decent) type system.
 
8:57 PM
yes, always use === (unless you have a very good reason)
 
user142019
Use CoffeeScript and is or ==.
 
user142019
Both translate to ===.
 
Don't think so. === when needed. Anyway, the problem was the weak type system. Since a variable can be a character, undefined, or an image, - and you cannot make parameters choose which - and it is not actually an error, but a nasty logical error.
 
@Zoid what if you need == in CoffeeScript
 
user142019
Always use === in JavaScript.
 
8:58 PM
You can find it using debugging, but it was not because it spat out an error.
 
user142019
ALWAYS.
 
@Zoid sometimes you need a ==
 
user142019
Weak type systems are terrible.
 
user142019
@Doorknob No you don't. You convert types before doing conversions.
 
like 0 == ''
but I agree that weak typing is terrible
 
user142019
8:59 PM
@Doorknob zero is not the empty string.
 
0 is equal to an empty string?
 
@Zoidberg You convert types before doing conversions. lolwat?
 
I hope not.
 
user142019
0 == '' should be a type error.
 
@Pawn with == it is
try 0 == '' in JS
 
8:59 PM
is "null" also 0?
 

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