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6:00 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Yes, there should also be other things, like algorithmic complexity, algorithms and data structures, etc. But what there should not be is completely random theory only useful for a very specific field.
 
@DeadMG Or friends
 
I like forgetting theory
 
@DeadMG What I meant was that "school" is about a whole lot more than just programming computers
 
I also like calculations on paper
 
i assert that template metaprogramming is a science that is only very specific for the c++ community
 
6:01 PM
Sooooooo much
 
There's a whole world out there!
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That's just not worth exploring 90% of the time.
 
Ell
@Zoidberg so whats wrong with going tabs->spaces in your editor?
 
@ThePhD Have you seen 90% of the world?
 
Nope.
 
6:02 PM
@ThePhD Then how do you know?
 
MY GOD D3D IS DRIVING ME FUCKING INSANE.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit By my AMAZING INTUITION.
 
@CatPlusPlus I don't get it
 
Really, I was just trying to make a cynical joke. :c
 
@CatPlusPlus "Black babies are effort"?
 
user142019
6:03 PM
@CatPlusPlus Please make that text white. It's unreadable. :D
 
Too much effort to push the butan
 
I didn't make it
 
user142019
You can modify it.
 
6:03 PM
@JohannesSchaub-litb girl
 
user142019
@JohannesSchaub-litb guy
 
guis
 
stop insulting me :(
 
@Zoidberg As can you.
 
It's an emoticon that says "too much effort fuck it"
 
user142019
6:04 PM
@ThePhD are bad.
 
cmdlines?
 
God I miss when the web was mostly like this
 
I don't
 
Angelfire!!!
 
user142019
6:05 PM
The web is bad.
 
gifs, smileys, times new roman (read: font unspecified), white-on-black
"Made up name's realm"
FrontPage
 
I have no ideas on how to improve my Brainfuck parser :(
 
oh those pioneering days
@Zoidberg Your life is bad and you should feel bad
 
user142019
I don't.
 
user142019
@CatPlusPlus /bin/rm
 
6:09 PM
I'm really bored you see
 
user142019
Oh language extensions.
 
What there's no extensions
 
user142019
Brainfuck only has +-<>.,[], not :().
 
Oh, Brainfuck extensions
Yeah that's Procedural Brainfuck
With procedures
 
user142019
Cool.
 
user142019
6:11 PM
Maintainable Brainfuck.
 
Not really
 
I wish I could remember my old Geocities URL
 
I need to add position tracking and better erroring out
 
user142019
Write a JIT for it.
 
Also, I have a completely new project on my mind
 
user142019
6:13 PM
@CatPlusPlus I have that multiple times per day.
 
CPCC, Cat's Powerful Compiler Collection (or Completely Pointless Compiler Collection)
 
user142019
CCCP, Сою́з Сове́тских Социалисти́ческих Респу́блик
 
Yeah we get the picture
I need to monadify this parser
 
Ell
Hmmph. localObject cannot be resolved :'(
 
Does that code even compile
 
user142019
6:16 PM
No.
 
user142019
Nothing compiles.
 
user142019
If it compiles, it's broken.
 
Ell
@CatPlusPlus Nope
it's decompiled from a .class file
I'll try something else :L
 
user142019
Wat are you doing.
 
user142019
Stop using Java.
 
Ell
6:20 PM
but... I want to learn to inject bytecode n shiz :(
 
Yeah that's very useful
 
user142019
Using Java is a sin.
 
user142019
Using Haskell is a cos.
 
user142019
So use Haskell.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit No, it isn't. Or more accurately, that's all I need from it.
 
user142019
6:22 PM
TERRIPUN
 
Ell
6:    astore_0
7:    ldc		"appdir" (16)
9:    invokestatic	java.lang.System.getProperty (Ljava/lang/String;)Ljava/lang/String; (71)
 
user142019
Stop posting Java.
 
Ell
:3
 
user142019
Move it to the Java room.
 
Ell
it's not java, it's java bytecode (doesn't scala look the same?)
 
user142019
6:23 PM
IT SAYS JAVA SO IT'S JAVA :D
 
Ell
haha
can you get haskell for the jvm?
 
user142019
@Ell I wouldn't be surprised if there was an implementation.
 
user142019
39
Q: Haskell on JVM?

jehaI'm wondering if there is some way to make Haskell run on the JVM (compiled or interpreted)? There exists JHaskell on Sourceforge but this one seems to be empty and dead. GHC uses LLVM as compiler backend. Would it be a good idea or possible to compile LLVM to Java bytecode? Or maybe use a diff...

 
user142019
@TonyTheLion lol
 
user142019
6:27 PM
I WANT TO PROGRAM IN HASKELL
 
@DeadMG That doesn't sound terribly arrogant when you read it back?
"I can't learn from anyone, I don't need you, I don't need school, I know everything, except the things that I know that I don't need and will never need, ever"
2
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Because tabs don't have fixed width. Some places like pastebin, I think, have 8-width tabs and you really can't use many, whereas VS is 4-width by default and you can stack more. You just can't tell how many tabs you can use.
 
And still forgetting the meta factor
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That's not how it is.
 
@DeadMG Tabs do have a fixed width. Each tab is one tab wide.
 
6:30 PM
I know what I want to do, I know what problems I face currently in achieving those goals, and if school doesn't offer a solution to those problems, then it is useless.
 
user142019
@LightnessRacesinOrbit you know what he means annoying prick.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That's quite useless when "one tab" is not a fixed amount of screen space.
 
@DeadMG You don't know what problems you could face in the future, and you don't know what you don't know!
@Zoidberg Yes that's obviously why I asked. Because I knew the answer!
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Problems I face in the future are for future me to face.
 
@DeadMG How is it "useless"?
@DeadMG Future you will wish he paid attention at school, and then it'll be too late!
dude, dual-wielding conversations. this is awesome
 
6:31 PM
If in five years it turns out I really, really need to be able to prove the formula for a rotation matrix, then I can pick it up then. There's no need to study it now just because I might vaguely want to know it at some undefined point in the future.
 
@DeadMG the META FACTOR!
school teaches you more than just a series of facts and topics
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit It's useless because when you're done paying your huge sum of money and large time investment, you still have the same problems as when you started.
resource investment: large, return: zero.
 
o.o
You're just like Zoidberg. :(
 
Ell
@LightnessRacesinOrbit most of them are :(
 
6:32 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit It also teaches you that lecturers are worthless cocks.
 
that people who are supposed to be looking out for you have only their own best interests at heart
 
@DeadMG You don't think that's a tiny bit libellious?
 
that government regulation is meaningless
 
6:33 PM
that the reputation of an institution is probably inversely proportional to quality, rather than the other way around
 
This is brilliant stuff. Do you write your own material?
 
do you have any counter-arguments to offer?
 
Sorry, you don't need to know.
 
IOW, no.
 
resource investment: large, return: zero
no, that's not what it means.
An argument from silence (also called argumentum a silentio in Latin) is generally a conclusion drawn based on the absence of evidence, rather than the existence of evidence. In the field of classical studies, it often refers to the deduction from the lack of references to a subject in the available writings of an author to the conclusion that he was ignorant of it. Thus in historical analysis with an argument from silence, the absence of a reference to an event or a document is used to cast doubt on the event not mentioned. Some scholars such as Errietta Bissa flatly state that argument...
^ Try not to do that.
That might not be quite the right link actually. hmm
 
6:35 PM
well, if you think about it for two seconds, then it would be obvious that I would, in fact, benefit from a more rose-tinted hindsight of university.
so there's no reason to to conclude that the return would be zero
not to mention that there's really no resource investment on my part (or either of our parts) at all
the only reason you quoted me is to throw it in my face, rather than any sort of constructive message
 
@DeadMG I didn't realise that wasn't okay in this room!
hmm I'm not sure I can find the fallacy I'm looking for. Anyway, it's the one where you conclude that no evidence or argument exists simply because I am not providing it
 
user142019
Argument order of Data.Functor.<$ y u no make sense.
 
user142019
Or maybe it does, depending on how you look at it.
 
Ultimately, you can't explain to someone the "fringe" elements of a beneficial school-based education. Until you've actually had one, you just won't get it.
I could try to put it into words but I freely admit I'm not sure how to atm
@Zoidberg Java?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I have had one.
 
user142019
6:38 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit No of course not. Why would I use Java.
 
I attended university for three years
 
@DeadMG You should have got a better one :P
1 hour ago, by DeadMG
I went to university to make programs, not friends.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Right, except how the fuck could I possibly have known which is better?
 
This shows me that you did not pick up on what 50% of the reason of being there actually was.
 
you learn nothing useful about a university before you attend it.
 
6:38 PM
@DeadMG Agreed
 
Hey, quick question. Is there a way to get like, the actual maximum number of primitives a D3D11 device can handle?
 
@ThePhD It's probably not capped.
 
Right now it just seems like I'm going to have to write my own table for each of the feature levels...
 
or
 
@ThePhD check out the maximum size of a vertex buffer :p
 
6:39 PM
primitives per what?
 
Primitives Per Draw Call
I.E. DrawIndexedPrimitives, etc.
 
@ThePhD limit of the size type?
or limit of the index size type
 
@melak47 No, because D3D9 hardware can only do like
not a lot of primitives.
 
@ThePhD Well, there are a max of 32 streams per draw call, so now all you need is max primitives per stream.
 
@ThePhD std::numeric_limits<int>::max() and go from there :P
 
6:40 PM
Like, D3D9-level hardware is 65535
D3D10-level is like 1048575
Above that is around 2^32 - 1
 
I just want to get the right one at runtime. That's all, really. :c
 
man, it's almost 7pm and I think I'm still drunk from yesterday. that was amazing
 
> Keep in mind there is a feature-level based limit on the maximum number of primitives in a single draw call, so the overall batch size needs to be under this limit. To support all feature levels, this should be 65535 or less lines or triangles in a single 'draw batch'.
Does that help?
Ah, @DeadMG's link is best
 
6:43 PM
I understand those limits. I do. What I need to know is if there's a D3D API method where I can say "MaxPrimitives = D3D11GetMaxPrimitivesPercall()".
or am I just going to have to write a table myself?
 
@DeadMG so basically...screw feature levels lower than 9_3 :)
 
that's .. surprisingly useful for Microsoft.
 
Ell
I would go to uni just for the social experience
 
6:44 PM
@Ell The horrendous amount of money you'll be indebted with forever really isn't worth a few beers.
 
I have to call THAT function to get information about the different capabilities. That's what I meant.
 
@Ell Yeah it's enriching far beyond what facts and tools you learn to use in some single topic. You can't just decide what is and isn't useful, without limiting yourself from expanding your knowledge of what is and isn't useful. As appears to be evidenced!
 
Ell
It's not a horrendous amount of money, nor is it just a few beers
actually I say social experience, but it's a whole life experience
 
@Ell Uh, it is a horrendous amount of money.
if you think it isn't, then I have news for you.
 
@Ell It can be
@Ell It can also be very inexpensive
 
6:45 PM
@ThePhD that's not a function
 
@Ell A whole life experience of getting massively screwed over for reasons far beyond your control.
 
Ell
Okay, it is a lot of money, but it is affordable
 
@DeadMG or, alternatively, he's in a different place to you, or not going to #1 institution
 
@melak47 The function associated with D3D11_FEATURE enum.
 
:)
 
6:46 PM
But even then.. ... that doesn't allow me to figure out the max number of primitives at runtime.
What the hell, Microsoft. There should be a GetCapabilities ( featureLevel ), and I should get a massive fucking structure with all the capabilities all wrapped up.
 
@DeadMG well, there's ~200€ fees per semester here. I'd say that's affordable :)
 
@melak47 Lucky you.
 
> Now when you create a device, you can attempt to create a device for the feature level that you want to request. If the device creation works, that feature level exists, if not, the hardware does not support that feature level. You can either try to recreate a device at a lower feature level or you can choose to exit the application
 
Yes, I've read that. THat's not what I'm talki- Oh, nevermind. I'm just not explaining myself right. :c
 
@ThePhD I linked a table a bit back that shows the primitive capabilities of each feature level.
 
6:47 PM
That's how you do it: start with the feature level you want, and if device creation failed then fall back on a lower one. Then use the data you have for the feature level you end up using.
 
@ThePhD D3DCAPS9 tells you the maximums you mentioned
 
@ThePhD I'm sure I've seen a capability lister in one of the D3D11 samples..don't know if it was from MS or from nvidia
 
@ThePhD Nah, that's what documentation is for.
 
@doug65536 There's no call for that from a 10level9 D3D11 API.
 
@ThePhD I do get why you want it, though.
 
6:48 PM
@DeadMG ok, thought I saw d3d9 mentioned
 
@DeadMG Okay, that answers my question. Now I'll just write the table myself in code-format.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit so he doesn't have to hardcode the table :)
 
@melak47 Pretty much. /cc @LightnessRacesinOrbit
Pfff...
God I have to code this whole table.
Regex replace, to the rescue.
 
@ThePhD It's really not that big.
 
@ThePhD if you download the dx sdk, I'm sure you'll find the capability listing thing in there
 
6:50 PM
@melak47 Really?
 
@ThePhD I looked and didn't see it in the nvidia samples, so it must've been from there
which is quicker, doing the table yourself, or downloading this? :)
 
@ThePhD The maximum isn't important. It's nicer to the driver to keep your buffers between 1MB to 4MB
 
@melak47 Yep I said "do" not "don't" ;)
as in "I do get why you want it, though."
 
derp.
 
6:52 PM
derpderp
 
@doug65536 The maximum is important. I create mega-sized buffers, and then splice the draw-calls down by sending the maximum number possible to the Graphics Device.
 
@ThePhD oh, heh. I also recall one that spits out the stuff from code, but that thing works, too, I suppose :)
@ThePhD megabuffers, megatextures....megaeverything? :)
 
@ThePhD rendering one big buffer using multiple start/length ranges of max size?
 
@doug65536 Yes. It's fast.
I've used it to render millions of triangles IRT with over 200 frames.
 
@ThePhD is the IASetVertexBuffers overhead that big?
 
6:56 PM
@melak47 I don't know. I never tried it. I just do it my way. That and, model-loading is kind of automated so bunch up as many triangles as it can into the ModelMeshPart's Vertex and Index buffers.
 
@ThePhD I suppose you don't change the GPU memory allocations much so the recommendation to keep your buffers a reasonable size may not apply
 
eat ALL the vertices!
 
OMmmnomonomonomonomnom
Buahahah SHIT this si why I HATE spacing
 
?
 
If this table was tab-delimited, I could reg-ex it easy
But no, when copy-pasted it's all SPACES.
 
6:58 PM
try pasting into excel first - then copy that
 
so match any number of spaces?
 
I've seen excel parse it out
 
@ThePhD That's why tabs suck~
 
Tabs are bad because they encourage the use of regexes.
 
DirectCompute / Compute Shader Yes Yes Optional Optional N/A N/A N/A
 
6:59 PM
@CatPlusPlus do you like noodles?
 
^^^ Spaces are terrible.
 
@melak47 What
 
I also need to make my own TriState enum.
 

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