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8:02 AM
@Feeds whoa, epic:
> Can't able to enter in chat rooms even I have more than 20 reputation
Fraid can't anyway able to chat in possible effective do communications
 
@sehe Impressive.
 
LOL
 
@thecoshman adverbs can modify adjectives, unlike adjectives (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
@DomagojPandža Reminds me of Boa Hancock's extreme looking down pose.
 
@StackedCrooked She's looking up though
I don't get it
Is that supposed to be artsy, because that looks like it could be because it's artsy
 
8:25 AM
@Neil My thought exactly
 
-4
Q: How can I request for close of chat room?

NinjaTurtleI entered in lets-get-philosophical chat room and I saw this message which might be correct at some user place but not fit for public chat rooms as developers are mainly on meta stackoverflow who are sitting in their offices. As chat room is not contributing for meta stackoverflow. How can I req...

 
8:40 AM
@sehe Lol, perhaps without context it does.
 
8:52 AM
Damn this Ninja turtle is really putting on a show
Soooo. You just gained access to the chat and already you want to be granted power to (vote to) delete whole rooms? Makes sense, makes sense. — sehe 41 secs ago
Can't help but notice you may have better things to do with your time. Low rep users don't often get to be the captain of the ship, but when they do they usually take the time to edit their posts into intelligble Engrish. A thousand screenshots aren't worth a single well written sentence, contrary to popular verbiage. — sehe 17 secs ago
 
9:09 AM
Call me amber lamps!
@StackedCrooked Brillijunt
> Munster estimates .... Google search results from 60 percent down to approximately 48 percent after iOS 6 is released
approximately 48% - what a gem
 
I wonder how to fix such a bug. Define hard-coded answers on a case-per-case basis?
 
@StackedCrooked No, just prioritize possible 'emergency' words
 
I see.
 
It's ok to get the wrong interpretation, just in a few situations that would be rather harmful
 
In Apple's defense: Siri will never call 911 (by design).
 
9:14 AM
In fact, I think the interpretation by Siri is wonderful
 
It's not incorrect. The speaker could have meant that :p
 
sbi
I love this one, as it is such an obviously plain programming error:
> the most common error that Siri made was answering a new question with the response from the previous question
It's got nothing to do with voice recognition.
 
@StackedCrooked And it picked up on the subtle redundant use of 'me'
@sbi My point exactly. It is about the difficulty of natural language querying / classification
Also, about the usefulness of such a service :)
 
I wonder if it will ever advance to the point that it will understand my suppressed mumblings.
Given a period of learning.
 
sbi
@Feeds Now look at this guy. He's still wasting precious human resources for his pranks.
 
9:21 AM
@sbi that post is taking the piss a bit - its some knitting FFS
 
sbi
@Flexo I am not sure I understand what you are trying to tell me.
 
@sbi I'm struggling to understand how knitting can be NSFW
 
@Flexo Add boobs.
 
sbi
@Flexo That's not his point. He's out there to prank, that's all he is.
I mean — why else would you set up an account named Feeds, of all possible names, with the correct avatar and all, and gather the necessary rep to post using that account through suggesting numerous dubious edits, enough of which somehow get accepted?
I still can't believe the meta crowed all bought his "oh, but I didn't know!"
How dumb is that?
 
mawning
 
9:40 AM
Am I the only one in here using VS 6.0?
 
sbi
@sehe: If that was all, it was bad enough. But this is the guy who used to come to the chat under the name of Feeds, including the avatar of the real Feeds pseudo user, causing quite a confusion. Further, if you look at his SO profile, you'll see that he didn't ask or answer a single question. Rather than that, he acquired the necessary rep to chat my a multitude of stupid edits (including wiki edits), most of which apparently got rolled back I pointed it out. — sbi 21 secs ago
@sehe
@RageshChakkadath I very much hope so.
 
@RageshChakkadath why do you use it?
however... is it VS2003? I used it about a year ago
its compiler, as a part of a toolchain for WinCE
 
@Abyx All in my team uses it. I don't know why they aren't porting it to vs 2010
 
quit that job then, they are weird people
 
sbi
Wow, how hilarious:
I have the right to roam around the Internet without being offended. In fact, I have sent 1.2 million deletion requests to the owners of a site named RedTube. I expect their response shortly. — Discount Gucci Handbags 58 mins ago
I think we should refer to this line of reasoning the next time some idiot is complaining about this our room here.
 
9:46 AM
@Abyx I've worked in both versions previously. feeling nostalgic :D
@Abyx anyway, visual assist gives some power to the editor so its somewhat ok, no need to quit the job :)
 
@sbi one complicated situation. Raising about as many red flags as will fit in my mind at any given tuesday. — sehe 11 secs ago
 
sbi
@RageshChakkadath You are using a C++ compiler that was published almost 15 years ago (most of this room's regular were still wetting diapers back then!), before even the C++98 standard was published (and by a C++ vendor that had by then lost its right to vote on the standardization committee, because they were absent from meeting way too often), which was considerably behind C++98, never got updated to even C++03, and you think that's Ok, because you have VA?!
3
 
@RageshChakkadath since when is it about the editor? Doesn't it count that you're on buggy, old, unsupported versions of the C(++) runtime libraries, SDKs etc. That you have a compiler that hasn't got full support for generic programming? It won't probably support modern C++ libraries without modifications (think Boost)?
@sbi Hey, I relegated the wetting of diapers to my children. Sadly, they both started refusing the duty since a few years now. Good thing the youngest occasionally wets his bed instead. Don't know how I'd be making up for the omission otherwise. I feel too young to start wearing my own diapers again
 
@sehe @sbi Huge code base 7-8 years old project :)
 
sbi
@RageshChakkadath Damn, that compiler chokes the very moment the token template comes up in any given translation unit, unless you administer it very carefully, and in small doses — but even then expect endless setbacks. It downright fails to implement such basic C++98 features as member templates and other rarely ever (initializing a vector from a list? — forget it, baby!) used stuff, and there's no C++03 support for the damn thin in sight. FFS, the community abandoned the damn thin in 2003!
@RageshChakkadath I have worked in a several MLoC project that got ported, over the years, from VC6 all the way to VS2008 (by I then I had quit the company). Yes, it's a pain to do that, but a necessary one.
Once you're sitting on a codebase that hasn't been ported to a newer compiler for 15 years, all you can do is run and let them die without you attached.
@sehe You're simply not representative for "most of this room's regulars".
Anyway, stupid meeting coming up, afk.
 
10:01 AM
Wow, so many bad answers
2
Q: Working with interfaces

BazI have functions of the following form in the code I'm refactoring: A f() { if(existing) return A(); else return A(handle); } The Safe Bool Idiom is later used to test if A is associated with a handle or not, i.e. if we should call the class methods for this object whic...

 
@RageshChakkadath lol yes you are the only one
In fact right now you are better off with open source compilers/editors than old VS versions.
 
> Is that where you watch Canadian custody proceedings?
love it
 
@sbi @Nils Now I know why I become totally clueless when I see people talking about c++11 :D
 
10:21 AM
@RageshChakkadath Well, it is possible to keep up-to-date in spite of your job. I've been doing Java and C# for about 50% of the last 6 years. I still keep up to date with C++
 
@sbi Most of this room's regulars are older than 20.
 
They just don't always act like it :)
 
@sehe Awesome job. But how? I mean, check this question
4
Q: Should every C++ programmer read the ISO standard to become professional?

KimShould every C++ programmer read the ISO standard to become professional?

 
Answer suggests using it for reference only, which in case is needed mainly when applying it in real rt?
 
10:29 AM
Well there are books explaining how to apply it
Scott Meyers, Stroupstrup, Josuttis, etc have written such books.
 
@Nils cam u pls suggest some? would love to read :)
 
@RageshChakkadath How about, just read the questions daily/once in a while?
 
1283
Q: The Definitive C++ Book Guide and List

grepsedawkThis question attempts to collect the few pearls among the dozens of bad C++ books that are released every year. Unlike many other programming languages, which are often picked up on the go from tutorials found on the Internet, few are able to quickly pick up C++ without studying a good C++ book...

 
@RageshChakkadath Why of course. And you're going to need to be certified in information engineering technology. I can make you a deal for 20% off a certification for just under 300 dollars.
 
New C++ Standard Library - Nicolai M. Josuttis lies currently on my table
2
 
10:30 AM
@Neil ... just don't :)
@Nils Is it all lies ?
 
@RageshChakkadath but I think @sehe recommendation will do
 
@sehe What? That's basically how it works already.
Only difference is that people actually take the certification seriously
 
@sehe ya I used to read but the new terms (even boost libraries, unique_pointers etc ) etc made me thing this is not what I was looking for untill this point :) stupid me!
 
@sehe?
 
@sehe And normally I AND the c++ tag with MFC that in most case filters out c++11 if I guessed it right!
 
10:33 AM
Ah. I usually evaluate 'what it is that I'm looking for' using two simple criteria:
1. Do I think it is cool (variadics? Yay - std::regex? Yay! - move semantics? Yay! User defined literals? - Meh, explicit type conversions? Yay! etc. etc.)
2. Do I think it adds value (IOW: can I apply this in the software business)
@Nils "C++ Standard Library - Nicolai M. Josuttis lies" - a pretty grim accusation :)
@RageshChakkadath Yup
 
It is grammatically correct I googled it.
 
@Nils I know. I interpreted it :)
:4364901 On the table - meh. In the park, maybe
 
I should probably check out that book though.
My knowledge of the standard library is severely lacking.
I know nothing about locale. I know nearly nothing about streams.
 
@StackedCrooked Both parts of the std library are best avoided :)
 
Is the streams library badly designed?
> I read the entire "Standard C++ IOStreams and Locales" book -- the only book seemingly available on the topic -- twice -- and I still don't know what's going on.
Hm...
 
10:45 AM
yeah I don't like the streams lib either
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes So?
 
@ScottW Alright! I'll book a flight right away! :D
 
sbi
@sehe You interpreted it wrong, though. The way he said it, Nicolai Josuttis on his table in a horizontal position. (As to how Nicolai got there, however, I can only speculate, and I'd rather not do that.)
 
I wonder too. I can't remember ever lying down on a table.
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked Nobody knows anything about locale, really. (FWIW, there used to be an appendix to TC++PL, 3rd, explaining locale downloadable from Stroustrup's website. Have you looked at that?
 
10:50 AM
No, I was planning to see if Josuttis' book could enlighten me.
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked You were missing out, pal.
 
Dammit.
I always miss out on the good stuff.
 
@StackedCrooked I have read that book. It is just a clumsy interface and locale ids are non-portable
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked I haven't seen this new edition, but for the first one, he explicitly mentioned that basically the whole chapter about streams was by @Dietmar. I think this includes locale, and from what I remember, if the subject was dealt with at all, it was just skimmed over. No, if you want to learn something, go with that PDF (if still available), and if that didn't get you to turn away in disgust, try Langer/Kreft.
 
@StackedCrooked I was too lazy to read the stream parts yet.
 
sbi
10:55 AM
@StackedCrooked Let's say it's been designed 20 years ago. I believe the language wasn't just "C with Classes" back then, it even still had this name! And for good reasons.
Have you seen this?
 

sbi's gripes with IOstreams

Nov 20 '11 at 22:25, 34 seconds total – 9 messages, 2 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked Nov 20 '11 at 22:27 by R. Martinho Fernandes

^ nicer display :)
 
@sbi So, most of them weren't wetting their diapers 15 years ago. I hope.
 
sbi
Oh my, robots are stupid! Can't even grasp the simple concept of rhetoric overstatement.
 
@sbi roughly 30 80-char lines in 34 seconds. Good average speed
 
:(
It's called hyperbole, btw.
 
11:00 AM
@sbi hyperbola
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes My estimation is about 10-20% off regarding their diaper status. That's not bad for a date thrown across one and a half decade, really.
But how would you guys know that, having grasped the concept of a decade barely a decade ago?
 
Now you're just being mean. Throwing your age around like a mallet.
 
The question is, mean to whom
 
sbi
@sehe I was asked to list my gripes with streams. Rather than injecting them randomly into the discussion, thereby smearing them all over the transcript, I secluded for contemplation, and just dumped that into the chat when i was ready.
 
well, IMO, one of the biggest problems with IOstreams is that they simply violate SRP
 
11:04 AM
@sbi I know how it works. But, like you, I like to distill random/useless stats from that. Diaper status, anyone?
 
they do I/O and text formatting and buffering and localization all in one go?
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes In this context, it's all about experience, not _age. :)
Also, how often have you guys smirked about my age? You should be able to take for yourself what you hand out to others.
@DeadMG No, they do it in two goes.
Which is still too few. :)
 
lol
 
Good point @DeadMG
 
they should not have modifiers like std::hex at all, and all their buffer stuff should be implementation detail, except flushing.
 
sbi
11:06 AM
@Nils He says "lol" and you find he made a good point?
 
I wonder, could boost asio be considered an alternative to the iostream library? It's actually a very general IO library.
 
@StackedCrooked I believe that it can't actually deal with files.
 
@sbi I was referring to the streams.
Ah and another point is that they use operator overloading.
 
sbi
@Nils No, you weren't. You were referring to a person, rather than to a message, and the chat makes this appear to refer to that person's last message.
 
Smile @sbi :)
 
sbi
11:09 AM
@StackedCrooked If you read the transcript after that bookmark, you'll get to the point where @jalf and I were discussing what we'd think would be an ideal streaming interface. IIRC; we both preferred heavy templatization, but agreed that this might be too much of a burden to put on the average operator<< overloader.
Oh, lunch. afk again.
 
@DeadMG It's not built in, but it can write to POSIX file descriptors and Windows HANDLE objects.
 
@sbi I've specified one for Wide, and it is lightweight.
 
Hello friendly people, my question --> How can I encrypt a 32 digit hexadecimal number to 5 digit hexadecimal number such that when the reversed process is applied the 32 digit hex is retrieved ?
 
you can't
 
@Failed_Noob sure, if you have only 0x10000 numbers
 
11:15 AM
You can, for a limited set of numbers
 
what about encrypting it into a 10 digit decimal number?
 
That's lossy
Google pigeonhole principle
 
@Failed_Noob Still no.
you cannot get a 1:1 encryption where the output is of less size than the input.
 
what if I convert it to a string value with 10 or less alphabets?
 
11:18 AM
Read that link. Seriously.
 
ask again when you actually understand why you cannot perform the conversion you asked for first
 
so sites where md5 is decrypted , they use a database ?
 
it is not decrypted at all
they simply provide one of the many inputs which give the same MD5 hash
 
Yeah they use some kind of database called rainbow tables
 
you cannot use MD5 as encryption
 
11:24 AM
And it's not decryption at all
 
meh... another how-to-decrypt-hash guy
 
There's an infinity of inputs that have the same MD5 hash
 
@Cicada Not an infinity. It has a limited input size.
that size is, of course, still massive compared to the output range, and there are still many, many inputs which have the same MD5.
but not infinity
 
Hm. Isn't it arbitrary length?
 
11:26 AM
nope
huh, maybe MD5's input is unbounded
 
13
A: Maximum length for MD5 encryption

Mark Byers The length of the message is unlimited. Append Length A 64-bit representation of b (the length of the message before the padding bits were added) is appended to the result of the previous step. In the unlikely event that b is greater than 2^64, then only the low-order 64...

 
I know that the SHA-2 hashes and all the others I looked at were capped
so I guess there are infinity inputs which hash to the same MD5
 
@DeadMG you can hash arbitrary amount of blocks and then combine their hashes somehow
 
@Abyx Right, but that's not SHA-2 anymore.
 
It's not SHA-2 anymore, absolutely, but the end result is the same.
 
11:36 AM
right, but that does not change the fact that there are not an infinity of inputs which SHA-2 to the same result.
just because there may be an infinity of inputs which are SHA-2-then-combine-somehow to the same result
 
Yes that's what I said
But, the end result is the same
 
no it isn't
 
Of course it is
 
I could also get the result of infinity inputs hashing to the same value by simply going hash(x) { return 0xDEADBEEF; }.
but that has no meaning
 
That's a terrible hash function
 
11:39 AM
and nor does SHA-2-then-combine-somehow
 
Uh.
So how do you hash a value larger than SHA2 input size? :)
 
dunno
find some other hashing algorithm?
 
So it's undefined?
 
no, it's defined to be impossible.
the precondition of SHA-2 is that the input is less than 2^64 - 65 bytes in size
 
That means the infinity of values larger than SHA2 input size share the same, impossible hash.
 
11:42 AM
@Cicada No, it means that using SHA-2 on them has no meaning.
 
Same difference
 
no, it's not at all the same difference.
 
I'd argue
 
it's the "same difference" as "UB happens to work on my system". Sure, maybe, but that doesn't make it the same as well-defined behaviour at all.
 
There's no UB involved here, you said it was defined
 
11:43 AM
there is no such thing as applying SHA-2 to an input bigger than 2^64 - 65. It does not exist.
@Cicada Yes. Defined to be nonexistent.
and a nonexistent thing has no properties. Because it does not exist.
like trying to compare the run-time behaviour of programs that do not compile, or multiplying two matrices whose sizes are not m, n and n, o
it cannot be done, it has no meaning, and there is no outcome
 
can anyone suggest a good book on multithreading?
for windows
 
@user1220811 msdn?
 
It may work but I would prefer a book
 
what do you want to know about multithreading? reading API reference may be enough
 
just basic console windows threads but I know very little about them
 
11:48 AM
btw, "books" are for people who can't read references, manuals, etc
 
@sbi Ok, fair enough.
 
like "multithreading in 24 hours"
 
ok I will scower the 'net if you hear of one please let me know
 
also, the chat is a good illustration for multithreading
 
O'Reilleys aren't. My animal books are my right arm.
 
11:52 AM
It's funny because despite sha2 being defined for < 2^64 or 2^128, the IETF sample code accepts arbitrary length bit strings.
 
@Cicada 2^64 is several factors larger than all the data on the Internets, I believe.
making it somewhat unlikely that this boundary will actually be hit
 
@Failed_Noob google "Perfect hash" as well. And "losless compression"
 
@DeadMG but you can't make sha2 of file
 
@Abyx Of course you can? Just treat the file's bits as the input?
 
@DeadMG What.
Explain yourself
 
11:57 AM
@DeadMG read that again. Think. Facepalm.
 
@DeadMG but file is longer than block size
The chat is not a place for thinking. We talk here.
2
 
user784668
@rubenvb Why should he? 2^64 what? For example, 2^64 Suns is several factors larger than all the data on the Internet.
 
2^64 suns? wat
 
@rubenvb I don't see it.
 
@Fanael lol. Good point.
 
11:59 AM
Wait. You're actually comparing an amount of suns with an amount of data? egad
 

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