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11:00 PM
Does it in Rsd e.o.?
 
@JimNorton Native code isn't supported on Windows Phone 7, for one example.
 
That sentence doesn't make sense to me, @sehe.
say hey
 
@RadekSlupik Heerst het ook in Roosendaal en omgeving
 
@JimNorton I think if you're doing indie xbox stuff, it has to be managed, and c++/cli is poop. I'd rather do c# than bastardized c++.
 
@RadekSlupik Do it your bloddy self, radish!
 
11:01 PM
@sehe it does not, afaik.
 
@keith.layne I think the mix is pretty win.
 
which mix? "managed" c++?
 
@RadekSlupik It does near Zoetermeer.
 
I'd rather do C# than C++ anyway. :P
 
@keith.layne Yup. Beats the crap out of meddling with interop
 
11:02 PM
@sehe kinky
 
what does "ook" mean? Is that monkey talk?
 
ook is Dutch for too or also.
 
@keith.layne It's Dutch, link kinkhoest. Sorry about that
 
Ell
aaaaahhhh fly invasion
 
I've never tried it...my impression (from others in here) is that it's not really c++, as in, no real templates.
 
11:03 PM
@keith.layne That's untrue
 
I figured that, it just seemed like the funnest word that I didn't understand.
 
@sehe That's true
 
Well, I'd love to be enlightened.
And I don't know how to read or google.
 
@keith which country are you from?
 
I was surprised to find you can actually go and template C++ classes, only when you do a gc class, it will have CLR semantics (obviously). but the way you can mix these (in good old pimpl style) is really neat
 
11:04 PM
Try to pronounce “rijbewijs”. >:3
 
If I gave you one guess, you'd get it right.
 
America US
 
sehe FTW
 
@keith.layne Well, ok so maybe C# has a place in game development. I'd personally rather spend time writing a game that can be platform independent. Seems like a waste of time to spend a lot of time writing a cool game engine and game and only be able to use it on one platform.
 
11:05 PM
Shudda said Merkistan :)
 
Somebody once asked me where Verwegistan was…
 
Ell
I don't know how true this is, but with existing engines almost all of the work is art/content
 
@JimNorton I resisted learning C# at all until this year...then I realized the progress of the Mono project, MonoTouch, and the droid version, and that C# was the easiest way to target all of what I consider the most important consumer platforms.
 
@RadekSlupik Near St. Juttemus
 
surprised me big-time
 
11:08 PM
Trying out mobile version of this chat
 
@keith.layne Is Mono really that far along and useful?
 
@sehe she asked many more dumb things too.
 
@n2liquid It sucks
 
Looks surprisingly good
 
@JimNorton At the same time, I'm pretty darn sure all AAA development is in C++, unmanaged.
 
11:08 PM
For example if babies eat moederkoek. :/
 
@RadekSlupik So you ignored her? Or was she hot (that seems to happen in combo)
 
Mono isn't that bad.
 
@JimNorton It is surprisingly good, if you don't want WPF.
 
@keith.layne I have a friend who worked for iD. They did C++ unmanaged.
 
@sehe both.
 
11:09 PM
@sehe it just doesn't have lots of features, but at least it's not.. Buggy
 
@n2liquid True dat.
 
@JimNorton I can't imagine it any other way...
 
@keith.layne Jim could imagine plain C :)
 
@keith.layne Yeah, that's why at first I was thinking WTF to game dev in C#
@sehe Actually I could lol.
 
@sehe so did you mean mixing managed/unmanaged c++?
That wouldn't be an option for XNA I don't think.
 
11:10 PM
@keith.layne Huh. A bit before, yes, not now
@keith.layne I don't know/care about consoles :)
 
Are you referring to my laziness in responding to specific messages? I do that to piss off sbi.
I don't think XNA is strictly for consoles, but I guess that point is moot.
If I actually owned an XBox I might have messed with that at some point.
 
XNA works on Windhoos too.
I have an Xbox, but I like my PS3 more.
Heck, even Wii games are more fun than Xbox games.
 
I rarely play games any more anyway. I have adult responsibilities. And shit like that.
 
@Mysticial, I have the Rule of Three question at the ready for when it turns out to be the problem why some data from the vector is lost :p
 
@RadekSlupik The PS3 has SO MUCH power, but I don't think developers really know how or haven't bothered to really utilize the 7 cores.
 
11:14 PM
The PlayStation 3 is a supercomputer.
 
@chris haha yeah.
 
@JimNorton, only 3 or 4 of those are for gaming IIRC
 
Ell
anyone know how Xbox360 graphics compare to tegra 3?
 
isn't that the chip on the open-source gamey thingie?
 
@keith.layne It would help if you reply-to the message, yes. It can become tricky to see what you're responding to. Hover this message to see what I mean
 
11:16 PM
@chris six are for games, one for the OS, one is unused.
 
You can't teach an old dog new tricks or something.
 
Also, seven of eight are vector processors, one is scalar (the one the OS uses).
 
@RadekSlupik, Ah, thanks. I never actually looked to see why one is unused...
 
From wikipedia:
The PlayStation 3 uses the Sony, Toshiba, IBM-designed Cell microprocessor as its CPU, which is made up of one 3.2 GHz PowerPC-based "Power Processing Element" (PPE) and eight Synergistic Processing Elements (SPEs).[47] The eighth SPE is disabled to improve chip yields.[48][49] Only six of the seven SPEs are accessible to developers as the seventh SPE is reserved by the console's operating system.[49] Graphics processing is handled by the NVIDIA RSX 'Reality Synthesizer', which can output resolutions from 480i/576i SD up to 1080p HD.[41] The PlayStation 3 has 256 MB of XDR D
 
@keith.layne Oh - I can sure try
 
Ell
11:17 PM
the ouya has a tegra 3 and also nexus 7 and HTC one x
 
Yeah dat PS3 emulator's gonna take a couple decades
 
@sehe When they make a keyboard interface for selecting messages to respond to, I'll be all over it. And then there's the problem that you can't say "hey dude! I'm talking to you!" without an implicit reference to some message that is meaningless in context.
 
Not to mention how fucking big PS3 game ISO's are.
 
Ell
Xbox has 522mb
 
The only problem with the PS3 now is the RAM
 
11:18 PM
MGS4 just fits on a dual-layer BD.
 
Who on earth's idea was it to put 256MB
 
Ell
512*
 
@chris Yeah that seems like an oversight
 
@keith.layne There is a keyboard interface -- just type a colon followed by the message number at the beginning of your message.
 
@JerryCoffin I concede.
 
11:19 PM
@keith.layne Nicely done.
 
The PS3 could have had 4 GB of VRAM, but it would have costed like a thousand dollars. Even $600 was too much for most people to even consider buying one.
 
If you guys would just wait to type until I was done typing my messages in reference to your previous messages, I'd be good.
 
I'm almost tempted to say that anybody who enters the PHP chat should be instantly banned for life, on the principle that they will undoubtedly annoy us with stupid flagging...
 
Ell
who would spend $600 for a gaming only thing?
 
My father.
 
Ell
11:21 PM
you could get a good enough gaming computer for that
 
@JerryCoffin No, because we occasionally troll them. :P
 
@Ell All american professional athletes.
 
He called “I bought a PS3.” :P
 
@Ell Seeing what some people spend on PC gaming rigs, apparently quite a few.
 
@RadekSlupik, Not as much of a problem if our internet speed catches up and Tbs/s hard drives get to a reasonable state.
 
11:22 PM
@Ell Well, the PS3 is awesome Blu-Ray player and media player...
 
Ell
I understand computers, consoles not
 
@Mysticial Oh, okay...
 
I would pay €600 for a PlayStation for Metal Gear Solid alone.
 
@keith.layne ??
 
Ell
my build costed £1,000
 
11:22 PM
@JimNorton It's an adequate netflix box. Which is all it's used for here.
 
Ell
and what do I play? minecraft.
 
But at the time (especially a year or two later), you had a monster computer for just around $400 if you bought a PS3.
 
@JimNorton At one time, it cost about the same as a simple BD player, but now you can get a BD player with net connectivity to play media for <$100US.
 
@keith.layne That's what I use mine for, Blu-Ray, movie DVD's and NetFlix, Hulu... games are for the PC
 
I just "don't have time" to play games. Says my wife.
 
11:24 PM
@JerryCoffin Yep I have one of them... I can tell it doesn't have the power of the PS3, but it is quite useable still.
 
MGS3, Mario and DKC are the only reasons I have game consoles, really.
Though I still don't understand why I have an Xbox.
 
I tried to play FPS on consoles, but I can't get used to using the controllers... I'm more comfortable with mouse and keyboard.
 
I can not play FPS' on a PC.
FPS without a controller is horrible.
 
@JimNorton Try this controller.
 
DualShock 3 is the best controller ever.
Fits perfectly in the hand and the button placement is top-notch.
 
11:27 PM
I'm amazed that people spend buttloads of money on "gaming" laptops. I just don't get it. Get a netbook or something. My 3.5yo netbook is good enough to program on if you're not in a hurry. Other than that, email, web, whatever. The bang for buck is just not there with laptops, save that money and get a usable laptop and good desktop for less total.
 
@JerryCoffin That looks cool. Do you have one?
@keith.layne Totally agree.
 
lemme guess, started on kickstarter.
 
Meh. I still need to buy a laptop.
 
what was that? "concentrated brainwaves"?
 
I've only got ~€700.
 
11:29 PM
what's that in $?
 
@JimNorton Nope -- I don't play games enough to justify it. If i was still single I'd probably have one though. Disclaimer: I know about it largely because I'm a personal friend of a VP at OCZ.
 
Ell
800?
 
@keith something like 800. I dont know. Google it.
 
Yes! Now my CairoImage thin wrapper class is using two unique_ptr ... thanks for the help everybody.
 
If the battery on my android tablet wasn't garbage, I could use that for most interweb stuff.
 
Ell
11:31 PM
@jimnorton how is that going? finished?
 
MacBooks are so expensive. xD
 
@RadekSlupik I think I have clearly expressed that I do not know how to read or how to "google". I'm not 100% in love with your tone.
 
@keith not my problem.
 
@Ell Well one of the classes is finished and integrated into the application. I have one or two more classes to create I think. That should be pretty easy.
 
@RadekSlupik Well, you can just think about what you've done while I cry in the corner, young man.
 
11:32 PM
The whole unique_ptr thing was rough this morning... but I'm glad people here helped me through it..
 
@keith :D
 
@JimNorton makes you think c++ is pretty okay, doesn't it?
 
> To cry is to know that you're alive. — HIM
 
@Ell Want to see what I have so far? I don't really think I'm giving any company secrets if I share the code.
 
Ell
yes please :)
 
11:33 PM
@keith.layne Yes, I'm excited to really learn it now that I have an application for using it.
 
No..... not at all... ;)
 
@Ell Ok just a secnd...
 
Company secrets are…
 
> 700 British pounds sterling = 1086.5400 US dollars
 
secret.
@keith it was euros not pounds.
 
Ell
11:34 PM
my build was pounds, his euros
 
dangit, I got confused because Ell made that fancy L symbol
 
Bitcoins ftw.
 
> 700 euros = 848.8200 US dollars
 
Almost enough to illegally import the cheapest MacBook.
 
Ell
bitcoins? I don't think they will take off anytime soon
 
11:36 PM
spend a third of that. Then if you spend the same amount next year, you won't feel bad.
It helps if you have small hands
 
I never feel bad, I'm not that kind of person.
I never regret anything.
 
"sociopath"
 
Ell
+1
 
Regretting is thinking of the past, i.e. a waste of time.
 
@Ell
http://ideone.com/lJv9n - class implementation
http://ideone.com/F5qnq - class header
http://ideone.com/dqf3r - main code
 
11:37 PM
says the young man
but I don't really disagree
 
I still have to convert the rest of the main code to C++, I think one or two classes should do it. It's just a small part of a much larger C++ application.
 
Imma sleep. I have to work tomorrow!
 
@RadekSlupik cya
 
Später.
 
Later
 
11:40 PM
What sucks is that barring a natively C++ library, the next best thing is a well-written c library with a well-written c++ wrapper. Unfortunately, I haven't seen many that have both.
 
Ell
it is looking good Jim
I wish I could understand function pointer syntax though :L
 
Not that I have any clue what good C code looks like.
 
@Ell thnx
 
@Mysticial, Well, I think it is indeed Ro3 infecting the missing vector data :p
 
@chris that question is a mess...
 
11:42 PM
tell them it's the "splicing problem". That should make for some fun.
@Ell you just have to stare at it long enough that you see the sailboat.
 
@keith.layne lol
 
be sure to tip your waitress.
 
Is the C++ typedef the same as the C typedef ( ie processed by the pre-processor and has the same behavior )?
 
Ell
no
it is not processed by the pre processor
it is its own type - not textual substitution or anything
 
@Ell Ah ok... got it.
 
11:50 PM
typedef is not processed by the preprocessor. That's easy to demonstrate, too. E.g. typedef void function(); function* p;.
 
Duh! And typedef in C isn't pre-processed... sorry... long day
So then they are the same...
C typedef == C++ typedef ?
 
I don't know of any difference.
 
Ell
I think so
 
@JimNorton yes
@LucDanton I don't think that would be valid even if it were processed by the preprocessor
wait, yes it is, nevermind. Stupid function pointers.
 
That was a codereview one posted here
 
11:54 PM
what the
that's a prank right? A troll?
 
I couldn't even scroll down
I was already blind
 
So if I wanted to write really confusing code I could take the following:

	typedef std::unique_ptr<cairo_surface_t, void(*)(cairo_surface_t * )> surface_type;
	surface_type m_surface;				// Current surface

and use:

std::unique_ptr<cairo_surface_t, void(*)(cairo_surface_t * )>

everywhere in the code in place of the surface_type alias?
 
Yes.
 
@JimNorton yes
 
@MooingDuck great.... thanks
 
11:56 PM
I suggested the alias in the first place because if you wanted to change the type of m_surface then you'd otherwise need to change several places (like SetSurface).
 
@chris Good god man! That makes me cry
 
@JimNorton std::string is really a typedef for (from memory) std::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char>>
 
@LucDanton right, makes more sense to me now than it did this morning... Now that it's working I'm going back over the code to make sure I understand it.
 
0
Q: C multiple definition error

cjBucketHeadi'm currently doing a simulation of adt in c, and i'm supposed to make a binary search tree invloving strings, i'm currently starting coding but i get this error and it doesnt say where the error comes from, here's the code, can somebody help me. http://piratepad.net/RfsGdRTJcN

 
hmm, I bet if I made a std::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<wchar_t>> it would be exactly the same in every way, except it would refuse to interact with std::string in any way. I should find out.
 
11:58 PM
piratepad.net ???
wtf?
 
Damn it! Proof read JIm! For some reason I get to typing fast and I always think my fingers typed what my mind said to type... And I nearly always skip a word or two.
 
@Mysticial multiplayer ideone apperently
 
@Mysticial It's kind of cool.
 

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