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10:00 PM
Greetings..
 
Also, my experience sounds wildly different.
 
Who cares about IDEs.
Compiler is a must.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus IDE users generally do.
 
Compiler doesn't "enhance" language.
Compiler enables you to actually use the damn thing.
 
Eclipse fucks up so often that "File > Restart" is one of the features I use the most. Yes, they have such a feature.
 
sbi
10:00 PM
The compiler.
 
I've heard Eclipse is bug laden
 
BREAKING: Eclipse is terrorism.
 
And Java APIs are the best?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Really? Never had eclipse break on me even once
 
I haven't used C# that much
 
10:02 PM
I had Eclipse choke on text rendering.
Twice.
 
@sehe It doesn't crash. That's the problem. It just treads along doing whatever it think it is doing, but isn't. (You know, the kind of symptoms you get from recklessly swallowing exceptions)
 
@CatPlusPlus Huh. How would you even know text rendering was the issue?
 
I mean it failed to render text properly.
 
Ah that way
 
Something as basic as the Java collection APIs show lots of lack of design.
 
10:03 PM
Without Jakarta Commons, the collections API is unusable in my opinion
 
I love C#'s concurrency objects... they are quite good.
 
@sehe Sadly, C#/.NET copied several of their mistakes. IEnumerable<T> is cool, but the rest are... subpar.
What annoys me the most is the lack of readonly interfaces.
 
Agreed. The fact that array lists are called lists, the fact that even readonly collections implement ICollection (complete with e.g. Add) etc.
 
Ell
readonly?
 
Hey I was typing that
 
Ell
10:05 PM
oooh right
 
They could have IList<T> without write operations and IMutableList<T> inherit from IList<T> and add them.
 
Precisely.
@chris gramer is the thing you violated when you typed 'wats'
 
Huh, apparently "wats" is an actual word: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wat
 
Still doesn't cancel out grammar issues, though.
 
10:10 PM
"gramer" is a word too, for some definition of "word": urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gramer
 
Because Urban Dictionary is the leading source on which words are real.
 
damn anti hotlinking business :) Here we go:
 
@chris That's why I mentioned it requires a special definition of word.
 
@ManofOneWay I like the D programming language.
 
@FredOverflow I like their range library.
 
10:12 PM
oh yes
 
I learned a lot about TMP when I tried to replicate it.
 
good find
 
"we"? Are you doing Kyrostat again?
 
In our respective off times, yes.
 
10:19 PM
EGGCELENT.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I thought that had IRC
 
that's too much effort
 
Really
 
There's also Google Group, but everyone sucks at using email.
 
Email sucks at being useful/convenient
 
10:20 PM
It's good enough.
 
@sehe my future's so bright, gotta wear shades...
 
Terrible protocols, but it's hardly visible from the client side.
 
You don't have to look at your future all the time :)
 
Anyone ever encountered an "error 2002" on Dailymotion?
 
inb4hi
 
10:32 PM
hi...
 
hi
You know.
 
kaasschaaf
 
I'm so happy I'm done with high school.
 
:)
 
Finally I'm free.
 
10:38 PM
Oh, the illusion
 
Now I know how leaked memory must feel…
It will never be free. Poor leaked memory.
@sehe the kaasschaaf is the best torturing device.
 
Oh you really haven't any real life job experience, do you?
 
Well, I have a job. 40h/week
 
You'd know that both "you're free after high school" and "kaasschaaf is the best torturing method" are blatant lies
> ... real life job experience ...
 
With free I mean that you are no longer forced to go anywhere.
 
10:41 PM
:)
 
You can go wherever you want. If I don't want to work, I don't go work. Nobody will stop me.
 
Because you love sitting in your pizza box. Boy, how long will it take for you to realize that it's just a new cage
 
I'd get into trouble, but that's my own fault then.
@sehe I'll stop near the end of the summer.
 
Yeah. I'm not saying it is all bad. I'm not saying there are alternatives.
 
I'll go on vacation in Friesland and then I'll attend school for a year or four.
 
10:43 PM
But, I am saying that if you thought you weren't free during high school, you will never feel free
 
leerplicht! plicht!
 
words!
Freedom is in the mind, you know. The rest is...
I'm sure I could spell a nice Matrix references, had I ever seen even a single one of the Matrix movies
 
sentences?
I won't get in jail or whatever if I don't go to school now.
 
Ell
@sehe is there a speech or something about "freedome is in the mind"? I need to show it to a friend :L
 
So. Your free from school now. Meh. Doesn't make you any iota more free on the essential level
@Ell Not that I know. But yeah, it sounds like a topic that should have been reiterated quite a number of times. Google?
 
10:46 PM
It does. I am not forced to do anything specific anymore.
 
@RadekSlupik You never were, quite literally
 
Ell
@sehe hmm. I don't think you can use "iota" like that - "Doesn't make you any more iota's free on the essential level", but I could be wrong
 
3 mins ago, by sehe
But, I am saying that if you thought you weren't free during high school, you will never feel free
 
Oh wow, paying taxes and house and food. What a big deal.
@sehe leerplicht
 
@Ell Yup you are. You could use 'tittle' too, IIRC
@RadekSlupik words. Don't be fooled by common jargon and appearances
 
10:47 PM
If Internet relay chat.
 
Does anyone know why this works without the include? ideone.com/WqBHG
I can't seem to find anything on it
 
@chris Ideone maybe includes headers by default?
Oh. Right printf
 
@chris C before C99 doesn't require function declarations.
 
It's called an implicitely declared C prototype
It's evil
 
Ell
@sehe oh o.O In to kill a mockingbird, atticus finch says "The state has not produced one iota of evidence". An Iota is 10 or something?
 
10:48 PM
Compile with -Wall -pedantic!
 
Oh, I get it.
That makes sense, thanks.
@Ell, An iota is a miniscule amount.
 
@Ell A iota is like the dot on the letter 'i'. It's the smallest particle in written text in ... Hebrew I think (IIRC)
 
Also don't use C. Use Haskell.
 
Ell
I thought it was greek for 10?
 
Iota is a greek letter (the ninth)
 
Ell
10:50 PM
Don't know where I got that from
 
I think Hebrew was written with iotta and tittles (dunno about English spelling).
@RadekSlupik Or python. Or haskell.
 
Hebrew was written with PHP, with their paamaayim nekudotayim.
 
@RadekSlupik haha. you maybe reversing the logic just a little
 
PHP is reversed logic anyway.
 
10:53 PM
No. Because, reversed logic would still make sense. Inverse sense. Which PHP doesn't
 
PHP is so hilarious. xD
How could something like PHP even exist? It makes less sense than a potato wearing a hat and sunglasses.
 
And it is still less funny
 
The problem is that PHP fans never used anything other than PHP, so they don't know any better. >.>
The “PHP hammer” explains the problem.
It's still of use, but so cumbersome, which people don't realize since they have never used a real hammer.
The claw on both sides…
 
who're you preaching to? :) that picture was unrelated to php, and of course some php programmers have used better tools. Some of them just don't care. Happens all the time
 
Good programmers can write good code in any language. Except PHP.
:P
 
11:01 PM
Ok, we get it. PHP sucks. This is getting boring.
 
The word “cumbersome” always makes me think of cucumbers.
5
 
The hexapoda logo looks a bit like that hammer
@RadekSlupik Deep
 
What? xD
How does the Hexapoda logo look like a misformed hammer?
That's deep.
 
@sehe @jalf is a penguin.
 
cucumbersome
 
11:02 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes polar bear trumps penguin :)
 
Polar bears don't live on the same continent as penguins.
 
Lion trumps polar bear :P
 
Human shoots lion, polar bear and penguin.
 
/cue: lions don't live on the same continent.
 
11:04 PM
Humans are incontinent
 
fuck continents, I'm a multi-continent Lion
 
Humans are often great.
 
Ah. That's for whiners. Try Ursa Maior!
 
@RadekSlupik Except for the ones that aren't
 
I am a European human.
Een humaan.
 
11:05 PM
what.
that's not a Dutch word, is it? Humaan?
Een mens
Homo Sapiens
 
@TonyTheLion It is. Adiective, though
@RadekSlupik Humanist? I'm pretty sure your not of the antroposophical side :)
 
Ew humanism.
I am a realist, materialist, nihilist and hedonist.
Some call me a racist, but that's because I +1 Wilders.
Though I think I'm going to vote for de Piratenpartij if I'm 18+.
 
@RadekSlupik 'if'? 'when', I suppose
 
Whatever. :p
Stupid English language.
 
Yeah sure. Piratenpartij. Let's make government about one issue.
 
11:10 PM
Dutch > English.
 
als vs. wanneer, same difference
 
In Dutch you can use both.
 
@RadekSlupik In English too. But they still don't have the same semantics
In Dutch, many things are just stamped "Ok for use" when everyone uses them the wrong way
Like "mits" and "tenzij".
 
Both are allowed.
If you get mits and tenzij wrong, you really fail.
They are like, the opposites of eachother.
 
@RadekSlupik Many people do use them wrong. News anchors, talkshow hosts, papers; nobody even corrects them. One of my biggest pet peeves
 
sbi
11:17 PM
@sehe They are about many issues here, although transparency might be called the main issue they're after. I have a hard time to see that as too single-minded, actually.
 
I always correct people when they make a linguistic mistake. :P
They deem me annoying.
 
@sbi In holland, they do a lousy job of getting their profile out then
@RadekSlupik Programmer pigs :)
 
I can't stand the misuse of “hun”. It's a word you learn at elementary school in year one.
 
I can already tell my daughter will not fall to any of those traps. She's just so big on language, at her age.
Yeah. Mostly, the abuse of it :)
"Hun leren het je verkeerd aan" - ouch lol
 
Does she use “hun” only as a bezittelijk voornaamwoord?
 
11:21 PM
@RadekSlupik She uses it correctly. And happily corrects others. She's not a grammar nazi like me, quite yet though
 
I also can't stand it when people make such basic mistakes all the time—d/t/dt, “Rembrand”, hun/hen.
 
My son... different story. Luckily, she has a lot of patience and like to explain things. So, we will get my son asking away about words he doesn't know, and my daughter, only 6y/o herself patiently explaining the subtleties of them, and also mentioning the English words if she knows them :)
 
“Hun hebben meer geld als jouw.”
 
@RadekSlupik BURN IT
 
The funny thing was in year two of high school.
 
11:23 PM
There was a funny thing in high school? Damn. Missed it
 
A classmate kept claiming that her usage of “hun” was correct. After half an hour of discussing, we went to our Dutch teacher. She got me a Mars afterwards. :)
 
It's really a joy to hear those kids going, amongst themselves. You can easily spot whose behaviour they're copying. And you can already see what 'roles' they love to play.
 
Betting with me when it comes to the Dutch language is something you should not do.
 
@RadekSlupik Brabos will be brabos :)
(must not think of gauntlets, just now)
 
I want to do Het Grote Dictee der Nederlandse Taal once, but each year I'm too lazy to get a piece of paper.
 
11:27 PM
Hint, you don't need to actually write it down :)
 
Last year I got “jip-en-janneketaal” right. Many people wrote it with capitals, lacking hyphens or with spaces.
 
Also, I largely think HGDdNT is entertaining, but irrelevant. Hell, I hate how spelling rules get changed every 6 months (or so) and HGD always zooms in on the pedantic changes
 
@sehe I don't have such a great kortetermijngeheugen.
 
short term memory, for any onlookers
 
HGDdNT is great. (Pun intended.)
Pedantism is good when it comes to such quizzes.
 
11:30 PM
I think the English rules for word composition are vastly superior to the rule soup that is Dutch. Sadly, the logic in English spelling is absent
Pedantry, perhaps?
 
They also don't allow end-of-line-hyphens.
 
You mean, line-wrap hyphenation? As, in, you know, hyphenation?
 
The thing I dislike about English the most, is its pronunciation (not pronounciation :)).
@sehe whatever, pedant. :p
 
Poet and pedant (or what was it again)
 
Code is Poetry
Wordpress is Shitty
 
11:32 PM
Icebergs are Cool
And we are so Witty
 
daknok is Awesome
 
(leaving the rest of the stanza for you)
 
Talking to the Dutch in English FTW.
I often vergeet bijzinkomma's. >.>
Especially on Facebook, requiring me to delete my post and reposting it.
 
Now you're making up terms. They're just comma
 
Facebook's editing capabilities are so cucumbersome.
 
11:34 PM
@RadekSlupik Poor you. I have the solution: log out. Permanently
 
That's a good idea.
 
Anybody here come from a C background and learn C++ by reading "Accelerated C++"?
I know the book is on the recommended list...
 
@JimNorton Sorry. I come from a Pascal/C++ background, actually. Not counting BASIC 'experience' haha
 
C++ is, like all other languages, learnt by writing code.
 
Is it the Koenig/Moo book?
 
11:36 PM
@sehe Yes
 
I should get it, once
 
Ell
hi guys
 
Hey Ell
 
I have a pirated version of Accelerated C++ on my hard drive in PDF format.
Never opened it.
 
@RadekSlupik BitTorrent?
 
11:37 PM
But I second the motion, learn by doing. I learnt C++ by doing (and watching others), and reading just 1 book: Stroustrup 2nd edition. I have since then made up for lost time, but that was after I already got C++ down comprehensively.
 
@Jim what else? :D
 
@sehe Oh I fully realize you can't learn just from a book, you have to write code. A book is just a tour guide... Some better than others.
 
It's hilarious how blocking TPB in the Netherlands actually increased the number of Dutch people who use TPB.
 
do the book's exercises and you should come out pretty well.
then post your problems here while you do, and you'll get good practices drilled into you
 
@chris That is my intention. :-)
 
11:41 PM
@JimNorton What are you learning C++ for, anyways?
 
I'm going to fall asleep now.
It'll be a waste of time.
 
@sehe To improve my knowledge base and for fun. It might come in handy when I next look for a new job.
 
Good reasons, I was being curious, not inquisitive :)
 
Später.
 
Understood.
 
11:44 PM
Which languages other than C++ and Java are major ones for getting a job?
 
Don't fall asleep now
that would be a waste of time
 
@chris Ruby, for sure.
C#
PHP
 
Later Radek
C# is pretty good for the CV ( resume )
 
lol who looks at CV in the IT world
 
I could get used to C# windows applications
 
11:45 PM
Only stupid big companies where I don't want to work anyway
 
@chris I've done a bit of C# this year, I've really enjoyed it.
 
I did like a day of it once.
 
C# is a good tool to have
 
while at school
I'll have to go through it thoroughly sometime
my friend's good with it, I can get help from him if I need it
php, they give you a lot to work with, correct? And then Ruby, I haven't looked into at all.
 
I'd pick C# and Python for real life productivity. I'd pick C++ and Haskell for general self education
 
11:50 PM
When I went to college, they only taught Pascal, and then later expected you to learn C on your own as the rest of the classes used C. This back 1990..
 
Yummy
 
^ Norwegian fishcakes, I think without flash.
 
Oh looked like eggs to me
 
I learned Turing on my own LOL, that's what the grade 10 programming class (there's no grade 9 one) uses, and it's really bad, and not used by anyone.
 
11:51 PM
^ I think this one was with flash, but not sure.
Maybe C++ source code also looks different with and without flash.
 
The only real turing reference is what they give you in the chm and this, but it's slow, badly made, and unused. I don't know why the school still teaches it.
 
So I found a PDF version of Accelerated C++. I guess I will still buy the book.
 
@chris I think every Brit here should sign the petition to award Turing a medal for his war services.
 
@JimNorton I hate PDFs for reading. I so love to have actual pages in my hands
 
@sehe Same here.
 
11:55 PM
@sehe, Yeah, I like an actual book best, but a chm does almost just as well.
 
ew. chm as well
 
oh it's not open any longer
"The petition has over 34,000 signatures,[111] but the request was declined by Lord McNally:[113]

A posthumous pardon was not considered appropriate as Alan Turing was properly convicted of what at the time was a criminal offence. He would have known that his offence was against the law and that he would be prosecuted. It is tragic that Alan Turing was convicted of an offence which now seems both cruel and absurd—particularly poignant given his outstanding contribution to the war effort. However, the law at the time required a prosecution and, as such, long-standing policy has been to acce
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf, Yeah, I think the language is a disgrace to Turing's name.
 

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