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18:00
@Xaade it's a ProxyAbstractSingletonFactoryBeanStrategyBridgeWidgetInterface
Java - The only language where the entire design of a program can be described in a random ordering of SO tags.
@CatPlusPlus I'm tempted although I'm not sure on tying myself to Boost.Format.
Oh and yeah. When I computed 10 trillion digits of Pi, I had to get around a few overflow problems too... No matter how hard I tried, I could not get 10 trillion digits to fit into a long long.
@sbi Told you TheresNothingWeCanDo!
FastFormat is supposedly faster.
18:01
@sbi It's like reincarnation.....
sbi
sbi
@Xaade No, you didn't tell me.
7 mins ago, by Xaade
Look.... Obviously.... There'sNothingWeCanDo.
@Mysticial What you were using was probably slow and bloated.
sbi
sbi
@Xaade Look, it wasn't told to me.
struct pi { char digits[10000000000000]; }
2
// no dependencies!11
18:04
of course, for superior non-slowness, you will want to declare such a structure on the stack
That's actually completely true.
bignums = slow by definition.
My implementation > 100,000 lines: that's more than bloated
@Mysticial At some point you have to just hand the loaded gun to the programmer.... protecting the trigger lock lock lock lock.... isn't going to help.
I think I now have my quote of the day.
Tin
Tin
hey guys! although, i received valuable feedback from some of you, i'm still struggling a bit with the generation of random numbers using TR1. could any of you have a brief look at the following pseudo-code? i.e.: doSomething's class functions => ideone.com/GB5lt@sehe
@Tin My heartbeat is pretty random enough at work....
Tin
Tin
@Xaade :-) mine too, especially if there are some nice girls nearby
18:09
@Tin Well, married.... once that happens you realize the rest are just eye candy.
Tin
Tin
@Xaade, ufff, i still have then some time to enjoy :-)
one thing that i didn't 100% understand is related to line #51, in the doSomething2() class function
@Tin Well, from experience, nothing's more enjoyable than a engagement that you put your whole heart into. Hint: If you're worried about being happy rather than making the other one happy, no one's happy.
Tin
Tin
more precisely, why do the generated numbers get repeated after a while?
is it because of the static engine in line 43?
@Xaade, i guess so, if you find the correct woman for you ... in my case, i'm still looking for her
@Tin How long is 'a while?'
@Tin Aha.... you see.... correct is focused on making you happy. Failed before you began. Try finding someone you can make happy. If after a while you aren't happy, then find someone else you can make happy.
18:13
@Collin if he's noticing, I think it's too short.
Tin
Tin
i can upload a print-screen of the output, does any one know a url to quickly upload a pic? something similar to ideone but for pics?
Click the upload… button.
If it's not there: imgur.com
@Tin MegaUpload.
@Tin why not just copy-paste that as text?
Tin
Tin
18:15
@daknokt, thanks, i didn't notice that button :-)
@Xaade You mean, the MegaUpload that was taken down by the US government at the start of this year?
@Xaade Oops... sorry. Forgot, any legitimate uses of that site..... were lies.
Tin
Tin
that is more and less what I wanted to illustrate in the link => ideone.com/GB5lt
Why not just SkyDrive then?
Tin
Tin
if I do ` static std::mt19937 engine(rd());` the numbers get repeated
18:16
@CatPlusPlus struct pi { char digits[ INFINITY ]; }
Tin
Tin
and i wanted to understand why?
@Potatoswatter as if 10 TB wasn't enough…
Government will eventually arrest the owners of imgur, once they find out I uploaded a song by compressing it into an image.
@Tin your random number generator is being recreated every time you call the function, that might be an issue. Make randGen take the Engine by reference, instead of by copy
(And the distribution while you're at it)
@Potatoswatter wouldn't that just cast down to the maximum int value or something?
18:18
I own the IP for an orange block... so gonna sue SO.
@Mysticial It would be invalid due to size_t not being able to represent infinity.
Tin
Tin
@MooingDuck, when I remove the static term, then it seems to be that the generated numbers are not repeated any more .... as in the doSomething3 class function
IP is so messed up, I'm serious, I came up with angry birds as a five year old. I even have a fridge drawing to prove it.
@Tin it should be static, even if it seems to fix your problem. THe problem is elsewhere
@Potatoswatter Well, C/C++ supports casting from floating-point type to int. So what happens if you give it an infinity?
18:19
@Mysticial At runtime, UB. At compile-time (as here), ill-formed.
All integral overflow is like that.
besides, you couldn't allocate an infinitely large array
You don't say?
I meant
even if you had infinite memory
@DeadMG what does INFINITY come out to?
@Potatoswatter that statement is not entirely correct, but I'll assume that you're right for most cases.
Tin
Tin
18:20
@MooingDuck, mmm, why should it be static?
@DeadMG Not true.... quantum computer.... allocate every byte at O(1) time.
@Potatoswatter Even for unsigned integers?
no, that's irrelevant
It would suck if the compiler went and ordered hard-drives on amazon.
2
@Tin because it might not give you evenly distributed random values if you recreate it every time.
18:21
@Mysticial No such thing as overflow in unsigned integers, since they obey modular arithmetic.
you can't allocate an infinite array from infinite memory, because then you would have to find the infinite + 1th cell to allocate, say, the stack pointer or something
which is impossible
@Potatoswatter So if I did: unsigned x = (unsigned)(1. / 0.);
gonna try that...
@DeadMG Use rest of memory, move pointer to top of memory block, point backwards.
@DeadMG we need a multidimensional memory model to handle that. TIME FOR A NEW PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE
@Mysticial UB I'd assume
@Xaade There is no top, it's infinitely large.
18:22
@Mysticial A prvalue of a floating point type can be converted to a prvalue of an integer type. The conversion truncates; that is, the fractional part is discarded. The behavior is undefined if the truncated value cannot be represented in the destination type.
Tin
Tin
@MooingDuck, thanks, an alternative would be to define the engine at high-scope and then instantiate the distributions inside of the class function, so as to allow different ranges (a,b), right?
@DeadMG It's not directional?
@daknok_t Yeah, you're right, it gave zero.
@Tin I think your problem is caused because you are creating a new Generator every time, inside the randGen object.
Honestly, infinite memory could be allocated, if the memory were had a real number as a direction.
18:24
            randGen(Generator & eng, T low, T high) : m_engine(eng) ...
            Generator& m_engine;
Allocate infinite memory means moving to a new block, allocating to the end, then turning some fraction.
Tin
Tin
@MooingDuck, i'll check now your advice on passing the generator as a reference
@Mysticial That's not overflow unless you take IEEE 754 to define the desired result. Division by zero is mathematically undefined.
Tin
Tin
@MooingDuck ok, i'll test the code now, thanks
@Potatoswatter There's a reason it can't be infinity, because you can't multiply 0 by infinity and end up with 1.
Division is defined by inverting multiplication.
18:25
@Xaade Even in 754, 0 * INF = NaN.
@Potatoswatter More precisely, the angle on the complex plane is undefined. But the magnitude is infinity. (I think... not sure if that's pedantically correct)
@Potatoswatter 0*INF = 0.... which is why x/0 != INF.
@Xaade say what?!?!
Can someone then explain how to get BigInteger libraries working? stackoverflow.com/questions/10077532/…
@Mysticial Any number * 0 = 0
@Mysticial So what do you multiply INF/0 to get INF back?
18:27
INF is not a number
@Xaade Same argument: Any number * INF = INF
@Xaade See IEEE 754:1985 7.1
0 * INF is indeterminate
@Mysticial If you : x/0 * 0 => 0, which is not x.
there are mathematical ways to handle indeterminate forms
18:28
unfortunately I can't copy paste since it's a scanned document :( hold on a sec
@WhatsInAName substitution...
Does anyone know how you get DevCPP to compile and link multiple .cpp files? Apparently that's been "WhatsInAName's" problem this whole time.
@Xaade Are you familar with the concept of a "limit"?
x/0 = u; u * 0 = 0. u = 0/0. x/0 = 0/0. LOL
"The result, when the exception occurs without a trap, shall be a quiet NaN provided the destination has a floating-point format. The invalid operations are … 3. Multiplication - 0 x ∞"
18:30
@Mysticial In mathematical theory infinity * 0 = 0
They define x/0 to be undefined
@Xaade ???
but any number * 0 = 0;
@Xaade So you're telling me that (5)/(x + 2) (2 x + 4) evaluates to zero when x = -2?
@Mysticial No... it's undefined.
infinity * 0 = 0;
x / 0 = undefined.
@Xaade ∞ × 0 is undefined.
18:33
In current mathematical theory, division is defined by multiplication, and [x/0 = infinity] is not true because [infinity*0=0]
@Xaade "infinity*0=0" no it's not
Tin
Tin
@MooingDuck, it didn't solve the problem, i'm using the static engine static std::mt19937 engine(rd()); and passing the engine as reference, but the generated numbers are repeated again
If you're dealing with particular infinite quantities like aleph-nought, then maybe. But you have to specify that and not just say "infinity."
I think he has a different definition of infinity. There are actually multiple flavors of infinity. Like you can have multiple flavors of ice cream. In other words, "All infinities are equal, but some are more equal than others."
Tin
Tin
any suggestions?
18:35
The definitive answer:
wolframalpha.com/input/?i=∞+×+0 just copy and paste; markdown sucks.
How do I add .cc files to my .cpp file
@Tin can we see your latest code? Are the "repetitions" from the same function, or different functions?
@WhatsInAName you don't, you add them to a project. I linked you two pages that show how to do that
@Mysticial ...
18:36
where?
1
A: Installing Big Integer libraries for C++?

Mooing Duckcommented: @WhatsInAName: Alright, that means the .cc files are not being compiled and linked with your program. So that means you need to learn how to compile and link multiple files with DevCPP. According to gidforums.com/t-20907.html, "You will need to create a project file & add only the *.cpp files to it." uniqueness-template.com/devcpp is a tutorial on the details.

@Xaade No, I'm serious. There's "Complex Infinity", "Directed Infinity"...
@Mysticial That's a lame argument.... You can't finish multiplying infinity*0?.... yes you can.... infinity*0 means 0 of infinity.... so.... zero.
@Tin Why does each function in myclass have it's own generator? You want as few generators as possible. Make it a static member of the class
18:38
@Potatoswatter Now they're just getting lazy.
They don't know how to define x/0, so they say it's easier to understand if you leave infinity*0 undefined as well.
@Xaade no, it's an infinite number of 0s, so undefined
...
@Xaade I also disagree that "indeterminate" is a mathematical answer, but for the sake of argument, ∞ x 0 isn't a valid expression. "∞" can only occur as the argument of a limit.
@MooingDuck no it's not.... and even if, even an infinite number of 0s would add up to 0.
18:39
W|A is better in maths than you, trust me.
@Xaade Every person (who spoke) in the room and Wolfram Alpha disagrees with you.
no... math is controlled by a few people who think a certain way.
Tin
Tin
@MooingDuck, here's the latest code: pastebin.com/7dia8x0f
i tried including them in my project
it's still overflowing
even under bignum
Tin
Tin
line 128, more precisely
18:40
@WhatsInAName it... but...
@WhatsInAName can you edit the question to show the line that's overflowing, and the declarations and values of the variables on that line?
Tin
Tin
@MooingDuck, lines 21, 115, and 128
conversion from int64_t' to BigInteger' is ambiguous
One of the two have to be undefined, x/0 or 0*infinity, but they don't have to both be undefined.... damn... they've turned graphing exercises into a minefield.
is there no way i can translate between the two here?
@WhatsInAName no. You can't have an error message and "it's still overflowing" at the same time. That's impossible.
@WhatsInAName of course there is
18:41
i tried a separate test
x/0 as undefined makes sense when you consider the graph y/x.
where i int the bignum to something large
and it shows up as a negative number
or y = 1/x
@Xaade Graphs represent functions. Math doesn't represent graphs.
@Xaade That why 1/0 it evaluates to "Complex Infinity". The magnitude is infinity, but the angle is indeterminate.
18:43
@WhatsInAName don't discuss it here. Put it in the question, or people physically cannot help you.
@Mysticial fair enough.... I like that better than undefined.
BigInteger num = 123456789*123456789*123456789;
cout << num;
honestly.... math used to be concrete... now it's just bullshit...
You have to be using the set of complex numbers plus complex infinity, in that case… what's that, an affine number system?
@WhatsInAName IN THE QUESTION, NOT IN CHAT
18:44
Now that they've gotten to things they can't represent in a useful way, it's turning into quantum mechanics for math.
Seriously.... what's next.... the calculation of this expression isn't defined until it's observed.... at which point a cat jumps out of a box either dead or alive, but neither until we draw it on a chalkboard.
@Xaade You can say the same about complex numbers. sqrt(-1) is undefined, until they invented complex numbers.
@Mysticial complex numbers >>>>>>> undefined.
@WhatsInAName Those literals don't have the type BigInteger and the operations on them (here, multiplication) have the same caveats as usual.
@Mysticial i is much better behaved than "infinity" as a single entity.
Infinity isn't a value, it's an abstract notion used in inductive proof.
@Potatoswatter Then, my infinity is called Fred.... and Fred * 0 = 0
18:47
@Potatoswatter that's definitely true. The point I was making is that math is constantly being "extended".
it doesn't let me even translate
i either have to use EVERYTHING biginteger
or nothing at all
so stupid
@Mysticial So is science... until it hit the Quantum mechanics dead end.
@Xaade Well, you can use aleph-0 (or any well-defined infinite value) and your equation is true.
@WhatsInAName Actually, translating is very easy. You just did it completely wrong.
In set theory, a discipline within mathematics, the aleph numbers are a sequence of numbers used to represent the cardinality (or size) of infinite sets. They are named after the symbol used to denote them, the Hebrew letter aleph (\aleph). The cardinality of the natural numbers is \aleph_0 (read aleph-naught, aleph-null or aleph-zero), the next larger cardinality is aleph-one \aleph_1, then \aleph_2 and so on. Continuing in this manner, it is possible to define a cardinal number \aleph_\alpha for every ordinal number α, as described below. The concept goes back to Georg Cantor, who de...
18:48
@WhatsInAName that has nothing to do with the library, the way you did it doesn't work for long long either.
Heck... what if I told you that `1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + ... = -1/12`. Say what? So says the [Riemann Zeta Function](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_%2B_2_%2B_3_%2B_4_%2B_%C2%B7_%C2%B7_%C2%B7).

Or should it be infinity?
BigInteger = (BigInteger)a;
where a is of type int64_t
how is this incorrect
@WhatsInAName don't blame the compiler/library/us for you not knowing how to program and/or use your IDE
that's why I am asking questions
@WhatsInAName that line is correct
18:49
people here are so incredibly rude
Okay, then if it's correct, why is it throwing errors?
@Mysticial Not sure how much you'll find that interesting, but I've had complex numbers taught via the identity 'i^2 = -1', with great care being put on that 'sqrt(-1)' is non-sense (at least until you define a complex square root). Apparently it's a divide in the traditions for teaching math.
FRED * 0 = 0, X/0 = FRED. Proof. FRED/0 = FRED*FRED. FRED*FRED*0 = 0. FRED*0/0 = FRED*FRED*0 => FRED*0/0*0 = 0.
@WhatsInAName you're asking questions in a public chatroom. Try asking on a question and answer site instead.
I did. You even replied it in
0/0 = 0*0/0 = 0. 0/0 = FRED.... whoops....
18:51
the line BigInteger a = (BigInteger)ma; where ma is an int 64
So, x/0 = FRED for all x except 0.
I think FRED just became a quantum number... cause FRED*0 = any number you choose.
@LucDanton i^2 = -1 is definitely a better way than i = sqrt(-1). That's because sqrt(-1) (and by extension, all radicals) have multiple values unless you define it to return the one with the smallest angle on the complex plane.
@Mysticial Which would be tricky to define without having i in the first place :)
Which is why cuberoot(-1) doesn't evaluate to -1 depending on how strict you adhere to mathematical standards.
@Mysticial um... you mean... reverse extension... or intension.....
all radicals have multiple values.... which means by extension so does sqrt(-1).
@Mysticial +/-i = sqrt(-1), is what I learned.
18:54
So math programs will resolve this ambiguity by always choosing the root with the smallest positive angle in the complex plane.
*at least Mathematica does
@Mysticial or out of +/-i, they pick i.
but +/-i is the correct answer.
@Xaade i has an angle of 90 degree, -i is 270 degrees, so Mathematica will return i.
@Mysticial for less win.
It's +/-i.... dumb infinity != 0/0
@Xaade Well, what you would expect it to do? Return an array holding all the possible values?
@Mysticial YAY.... I like that.
What would you not expect it to do... display i,-i?....
i+5,i-5
18:58
@Xaade If you did Solve[1 == x^2]. Then yes, it will return an array of all the values.
Tin
Tin
@MooingDuck, sorry again, i defined the engine as a static member of the class, i'm also passing the engine as a reference to the struct, but now again i'm getting repeated random numbers
@Mysticial Since these angles are defined in terms of i, isn't it just as proper to say that it returned the one without the minus sign, and that decides the handedness of the complex plane?

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