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sbi
7:00 PM
@Shog9 Oh, that's someone else? Wow. I must have bumped into him before. I have definitely seen that twitter account. I thought it's that other Tomalak.
 
it's a Bin that's made of Win that counters all the Fail we put inside
 
Maybe we should rename bin.
As a bonus, it'll cause panic and chaos.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes I think Homo habilis is a cousin of Gorilla gorilla, not an uncle. ICBWT.
 
And to prevent the others from disowning Loungers from it in retalliation, we disown them first!
 
7:01 PM
I don't think we really need a disownership war on our hands
I've already committed my armies against the Meta Police and am not prepared to fight two fronts
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah, the good old "shoot them first, so they can't shoot at us first" approach. It has gotten this world really far, hasn't it?
 
@sbi It didn't work for Han.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Lost on me. Too obscure.
 
sbi
Ah, solo, huh?
 
7:03 PM
Yep.
Han shot first, but that didn't prevent Greedo from shooting first.
 
shoot at them first -> enemy absorb blaster bolt with hand -> be horrifically tortured
oh, yeah, and that :P
 
@ScottW mods have to do stuff
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Well, I was referring to it not having gotten this world far, at least not far into the direction it should go. Only I was being sarcastic.
 
@ScottW Man, doing stuff sounds like such hard work. I'm not sure I'm ready to commit to doing stuff.
 
Stuff is cool.
 
sbi
7:04 PM
@ScottW If you post whineys (:() isn't that an indication for you being blue already?
@ScottW Have you tried posting this: :( :( :( This should be pretty blue, actually.
 
There's no Unicode for "change text to blue" :(
 
@RMartinhoFernandes pwned.
 
Meh, another random downvote with no explanation.
 
@CatPlusPlus have you disagreed with someone lately?
 
I don't want to live on a planet where const_cast is used to violate interface agreement.
 
7:08 PM
yeah, I don't either
damn, I can't seem to convince Windows to enter the RTL override
 
@DeadMG You edited that to add a period? I have to admit I wasn't expecting that.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Eh, I was trying to use an alt code to enter the RTL override combination
 
U+XXXX BLUE OVERRIDE
 
but Chrome decided instead that I was trying to edit that, and added a period too
 
@DeadMG Copy-paste from char map. And it's tricky to write with it.
 
7:08 PM
and I was like, well, whatever
 
I can never know if I'm before or after the damn thing.
 
100
A: Can someone please explain move semantics to me?

FredOverflowI find it easiest to understand move semantics with example code. Let's start with a very simple string class which only holds a pointer to a heap-allocated block of memory: #include <cstring> #include <algorithm> class string { char* data; public: string(const char* p) ...

Oh cool, I got my 100th upvote on that answer today :)
0
A: Does any compiler support constexpr yet?

Acmovian PLUsage of "constexpr" is really easy. Look at this piece of code: constexpr int get_five(){ return 5;} This function returns always 5, so it can be declared with "constexpr" keyword. But factorial function returns value depending on argument, so its "output" is not always the same.

How does that answer the question??
 
‣ huh
not workin :(
 
You're a failure!
 
@FredOverflow not even slightly
 
sbi
7:11 PM
Hey, @Shog, we all assembled at your feet to hear you tell the enthralling fairytale of The Old And The New Tomalak, hanging at your very lips with our huge black watery eyes — and you just throw us a bone user profile and plop out of existence. Bad uncle!
 
it worked fine for some other character on char map
but it won't work for RTL override
 
@DeadMG pardon, but what is RTL?
 
Right-to-Left.
 
1
Q: How do I put items into a const vector?

DangerMooseI've been trying a bunch of different ways, but I can't figure it out. The declaration that I was given is: const std::vector<std::string>&, I've been trying to do this: gradeReported.push_back(firstEntry); I keep getting an error. I am pretty sure it has something to do with th...

 
‮right to left
 
7:11 PM
ah
 
Why do several people recommend const_cast here??
 
‮oh dear
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Reminds me of the Swans:
 
Also a TV channel.
 
‮I thnk I got the RTL override working
 
sbi
7:12 PM
> I am the fuel that fires the engines of failure.
 
@sbi lol... There's no story; just me (repeatedly) mistaking one for the other, and recoiling in horror at what I supposed a long-time user was saying.
 
sbi
@Shog9 Couldn't you have made up one then? Scowl.
 
@FredOverflow because it's obvious (I don't say it's right)
 
@DeadMG .mH ."edirrevo" eht tpecxE .taht tog I kniht I ,KO
 
@DeadMG No, you didn't!
You're cheating.
Oh, you did.
 
7:13 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Yes, I did.
hehe
‮you suck, buddy
 
FF is letting me select the text from left to right.
For some reason.
 
So, it doesn't break the entire chat.
I always wondered.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes chrome as well
 
@CheersandhthAlf ‮well, when you enter text normally, it's LTR for English, so the RTL override changes the direction even for LTR languages
 
I remember hilarious effects this had on IRC logs.
 
7:14 PM
@CatPlusPlus It breaks the starboard.
@CheersandhthAlf That's fake!
 
Someone on eBay has an item for sale I'm interested in. In fact, he has 10 of them. I asked him how old the article was, and he didn't know. Fishy?
 
sbi
@DeadMG You thnk, huh? I am sure you actually meant you suck, right?
 
> segaugnal
 
@sbi Hey, it's hard to type in the opposite direction to normal :D
 
@DeadMG Type it outside and copy-paste.
@FredOverflow I guess it depends on the article? Is it a fossil?
 
7:16 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes no, computer hardware
 
Reversing strings is when an interpreter comes in handy
 
You've got one in yer browser.
 
yep
F12
 
Xeo
0
Q: public field of a class not visible in its subclass

user1284240template <typename AType, typename OuterClass> class A{ public: A (AType a, OuterClass & b) : a(a), b(b) { } AType a; const OuterClass & b; }; template <typename T> class B { public: class C : public A<int, B> { C(const B & b) : A<int, B&g...

Close votes please.
 
So, there's no A Tale of Two Tomalaks? Disappointing.
 
sbi
7:18 PM
@ScottW I'm not sure "they rock" can be applied to the Swans. :-/ I came late to the party, anyway, I only have Amnesia and their best-of, Various Failures.
@ScottW Michael Gira?
 
argh
most of the other chat programs I'm trying won't recognize the RTL override
 
lol, kid got a new toy.
 
Ell
hi guys
 
Write an answer with RTL override.
 
sbi
@ScottW We're always pedantic in the C++ room. (Except for the puppy, who's silly instead, and @thecoshman, who's an orthographic failure.)
 
7:20 PM
lol
 
sbi
@ScottW Somewhere on YouTube is that video of M.Gira performing God Damn The Sun all by himself with nothing but an acoustic(?) guitar. That is truly incredible.
You know, one day, I'm gonna publish a book, Effective Child Raising — 50 Simple Rules to Make Life Bearable for You, Your Child and Everyone Else Involved, written especially for programmers.
Item #1 says "Never Blame Your Kid For Behaving Wrongly, Because You Raised It To Do So." And right among the first dozen is the item that says "Never Threaten You Child To Do Something If You Are Not Prepared To Actually Do It." Very close to "If You Feel Like Your Child is Testing Your Limits, Then It's Because You Failed To Make Them Obvious."
I ran across a mother today in the supermarket who was a complete failure on all of those and half a dozen more of the most fundamental rules of child raising.
 
@sbi sounds good
 
sbi
This always makes me so mad.
 
Don't forget "#23: Don't use pointers", and "#34: If they can think of it, there is porn of it."
2
 
Lol.
#50: don't have kids.
That's why it's the last one.
 
sbi
7:32 PM
I think Pratchett somewhere said something like there ought to be an exam you need to pass before you can have children — other than the practical one, or something along those lines, anyway. (Google failed me, even though I know it's out there.)
 
Parenting 101.
 
@ScottW I once saw a 200 page book titled something like Everything men know about women that cost ~30€. All 200 pages were blank.
3
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus That's about as pointless as if Meyers's 50th rule would be "Do Not Program In C++".
 
@RMartinhoFernandes The rule has a number now? (the pointers one) Awesome!
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph I was wondering about that, too.
@ScottW Get. Out. Now.
 
7:34 PM
@sbi Whenever I encounter really annoying brats in public I want to hit their parents … even without having read your book ;)
 
I usually want to be somewhere else.
 
I think C++ would be nicer if one could just hint about the desired effect.
 
@sbi Hey, it’s an awesome rule. There’s a whole powerpoint presentation about it
 
int main() please_dont_crash {}
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph Yeah, but it's like with stupid questions on SO: They need to be educated, not closed down.
@KonradRudolph What are you talking about?
 
7:35 PM
> “Sometimes I really think people ought to have to pass a proper exam before they're allowed to be parents. Not just the practical, I mean.” ― Terry Pratchett, Thief of Time
 
The thing he invented, obviously.
 
@sbi Took a while to track down.
 
@sbi Well, my presentation, obviously ;)
@sbi But violence is so cathartic.
 
@KonradRudolph i think you should have kept the original formulation ;-)
 
7:36 PM
Coding is fun.
Mostly.
A bit.
I've no idea why I keep doing this.
 
@CatPlusPlus Coding is fun when you win.
When the compiler wins, it isn't.
 
@CheersandhthAlf OK. Rule #23: Don’t use f*cking pointers.
 
Don't use f*cking pointers, wait till they finish.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Ah, thanks! (TBH, I hoped you would step in.)
 
pointers are awesome... :-P
 
sbi
7:38 PM
@CheersandhthAlf #pragma do_what_i_want
 
#pragma shut_up_and_compile_it
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph You have a presentation about getting out now? I'm confused.
 
@CatPlusPlus do want :(
 
Warren Teitelman originally wrote DWIM to fix his typos and spelling errors, so it was somewhat idiosyncratic to his style, and would often make hash of anyone else's typos if they were stylistically different. Some victims of DWIM thus claimed that the acronym stood for ‘Damn Warren’s Infernal Machine!'.

In one notorious incident, Warren added a DWIM feature to the command interpreter used at Xerox PARC. One day another hacker there typed delete *$ to free up some disk space. (The editor there named backup files by appending $ to the original file name, so he was trying to delete any back
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph I will not look this up. I will not look this up. I will not look this up. I will not look this up. I will not look this up. I will not... Oh. Interesting.
 
7:40 PM
@sbi … about f*cking pointers … I thought that was why you were kicking Scott out
lol, ah
OUT!
Now that is just bad: zoom-out.co.uk
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph What's wrong with you guys? Is that really so hard? How can you program in C++ if you're so unable to iterate over a simple singly-linked list of references to postings?
8 mins ago, by sbi
@CatPlusPlus That's about as pointless as if Meyers's 50th rule would be "Do Not Program In C++".
 
@sbi :p Apparently C++ is too hard for me
 
Right, the report.
 
sbi
Rule #34 is boring anyway. (Where's that tiger, BTW?)
 
7:43 PM
So boring time warps when I think about it.
 
sbi
I propose we introduce Rule #7: If you can think of it, it can be implemented in C++.
 
@sbi I almost contradictided this, and then realized you didn't say "efficiently"
 
#8: But you won't be able to compile it.
 
sbi
@MooingDuck If "efficiency" couldn't be misinterpreted (like applying to the efficiency of programming, rather than running the program), I would have added it.
 
My Internet is slow today and I don't like it.
 
7:46 PM
How can you not like the Internet? It's full of porn.
(Trying really hard to summon Tony)
 
sbi
Anyway, it's close to 9pm, there's stuff I ought to do before I go to bed, and I need to be up before 6am. Goes offstage.
 
@sbi C++ has a hard time with some things, like arbitrary precision multiplication on a 32 bit machine.
 
Tony's mad at me. :(
 
@MooingDuck And by C++, you mean you, right?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes er, I guess so. I have yet to find a library for it where that part wasn't (A) slow or (B) assembly though
 
7:48 PM
@sbi That book already exists. It's called De gouden regels van de opvoeding in Dutch (Die goldenen Regeln der Erziehung (or: des Elternseins?))
 
GMP/MPFR? Also define slow.
 
Slow: some grammatical classification, characteristic speed of snails.
 
It is really refreshing in it's simple, common sense logic. It can come across as a little pedantic, but hey, that's frequently the case when people are having to point out common sense :)
 
@MooingDuck They rejected multiple proposals for adding that to the standard.
 
Afternoon, everybody.
 
7:49 PM
@JonPurdy Evening
 
sbi
@sehe I have read many such books. Some even are somewhat good. None is as good as mine would be. Now please stop pinging me, or I'll be tired tomorrow morning...
 
@sehe It’s always sometime somewhere. Except when it’s nowhen.
 
@sbi Ok
 
I’ve got a minor ADL problem that bugs me.
 
@CatPlusPlus three+ multiplications to calculate int*int
 
7:50 PM
@JonPurdy Pray tell
 
I can see why they rejected bignum floating-point since it's hard to agree on an interface, but for integers? come on...
 
You are having a conflict between std::ref and boost::*::ref? Or some other classic (std::begin, perhaps)?
 
@MooingDuck Oh my. Tragedy.
 
@CatPlusPlus GMP uses ASM
 
@MooingDuck So?
 
7:51 PM
@MooingDuck Depends on what you're compiling it on. It it uses the single-operand multiply, it's fast - very fast.
 
namespace n { template<...> iterator(...) { ... } }
std::vector<...> v{...};
{ using n::iterator; do_something_with(iterator(v)); }
Conflicts with std::iterator. :(
 
@CatPlusPlus to do it in (the obvious way) in C++ requires 4 multiplications, 3-8 additions, and many bitwise operations. To do it in ASM is one multiplication and 2 moves
 
GMP works, and who cares about internals.
 
@JonPurdy There's a std::iterator?
 
7:53 PM
@CatPlusPlus I was merely saying it's something C++ can't do efficiently without ASM
@RMartinhoFernandes yes, it's a class template
 
@MooingDuck §7.4.
 
I'm so tired.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes oh that was to me? I'll check it
 
@MooingDuck The C++ committee has rejected a few proposals on the grounds, that it's "too difficult to do a good implementation"
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It’s a utility template for defining iterators with the typedefs the STL expects.
 
7:54 PM
Oh, that thing.
 
@JonPurdy In general terms, you need an ADL barrier
 
Are you using namespace std or something?
 
Boost.Iterators is better.
 
I mean, ADL doesn't pick up constructors, does it?
 
shrug
 
7:55 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes oh, I was aware of that. That doesn't make the code in it C++, but I usually said "without assembly" because of that bit.
 
iterator shouldn’t have anything other than a default constructor.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It think it is a function template instead of a constructor
 
@sehe What does the function do?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Don't ask me, it isn't shown: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/3021727#3021727
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I am using std::vector, but that doesn’t cause a problem.
 
7:57 PM
@Mysticial Sorry to have been ignoring you Mystics, but I didn't understand the first thing, and the second wasn't really relevant to my point (though it is good information)
 
Sorry, there is no std::iterator function.
 
@MooingDuck lol what were the two things?
 
@JonPurdy do you have a small selfcontained sample?
 
@CatPlusPlus "We all grow up with "subliminal programming", stuff that can make us think badly of ourselves automatically, even years later. Some of these ideas were put into our heads by our family, by accident or design, while others float around in society. These ideas get stored in our subconscious and will come back and bite us when we really don't need them to."
 
7:59 PM
"Depends on what you're compiling it on. It it uses the single-operand multiply, it's fast - very fast."
and "The C++ committee has rejected a few proposals on the grounds, that it's "too difficult to do a good implementation""
 
error: ‘template<...> struct std::iterator’ is not a function,
error:   conflict with ‘template<...> ... n::iterator(...)’
error:   in call to ‘iterator’
 
@JonPurdy ah. nice. Wasn't expecting that, really
 
@sehe Can I perhaps convince you to take another look at my PEG question, now with linked sample code?
 
@KonradRudolph will do now
 
0
Q: STL library vs JCF framework

FredOverflowWhy is the STL considered a library, but the JCF a framework? What exactly is it in their respective designs that causes/justifies this distinction? Can you give a code example that illustrates this?

I was bored again :)
 
8:00 PM
@JonPurdy Rename it and don't waste time?
 
Thanks :)
 
@CatPlusPlus Hmph. I hate having to make inconsistent names to get around language problems. :(
 
@FredOverflow "Although it is a framework, it works in a manner of a library."
 
@CatPlusPlus That doesn't scale. Since ADL defies namespacing, renaming it won't solve the issue if you want to support a general-purpose library
 
A.k.a. Java people getting all enterprisey again.
 
8:01 PM
Sounds like a compiler bug.
 
@CatPlusPlus Hu? Ah.
 
ADL doesn't pick up constructors.
 
@FredOverflow On wiki.
 
Unless you want to go and document the names that users of your library can't use :)
 
Compiles fine in GCC 4.8.
 
8:02 PM
@sehe Eh?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It's probably getting pulled into a namespace (using std::iterator; somewhere in a namespace that is visible at the time of template definition.)
 
@sehe Nope, not an issue either.
 
@JonPurdy Is it MSVC? MSVC is known to have trouble with the exact rules of template instantation vs. name resolution
 
You can have both n::iterator and std::iterator visible without conflict, because there's no type deduction for class templates.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Then my only guess is: this is MSVC and the call gets resolved as potential constructor call erronously (bug)
 
8:03 PM
@sehe Nope, g++ 4.4. I’m on my laptop where I’ve been too lazy to upgrade.
 
@JonPurdy Interesting. But old.
 
lol, I just tried to upvote an answer related to iterators, but I couldn't, because... it was written by myself :)
 
@JonPurdy It's been fixed in at least 4.6.
 
Buh. Guess I’ll just spend the few minutes to figure out how to upgrade.
 
@FredOverflow EgOverflow
 
8:05 PM
@FredOverflow Good sign :)
 
And 4.5 too.
 
At least I know I’m not completely crazy.
 
@JonPurdy You can never be sure of that!
 
After all, you're here.
 
8:07 PM
> [The JCF] reused many ideas and classes from Doug Lea's Collections package, which was deprecated as a result.[4] Sun choose not to use the ideas of JGL, because they wanted a compact framework, and consistency with C++ was not one of their goals.
Interesting, Doug Lea once "ported" the STL to Java?
 
And reproed on ideone with 4.3. ideone.com/mvmMD
You're sane.
@FredOverflow That's the dude from malloc!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Also Java fork/join I believe.
Must be one smart guy. I don't think I've ever seen him on youtube or such.
 
If you're on YouTube, you're stupid?
 
nope, definitely unfamiliar
@RMartinhoFernandes The sentences weren't related.
Oh wait, Doug Lea has an x86 assembly instruction as his last name. How cool is that?
Doug Lea should write a book titled "Effective Address Loading".
 
8:11 PM
probably not the same Doug Lea
 
You're a stalker?
 
No, but I've always wanted to play S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
only 15 € for three games on amazon
Also, I'm afraid to play S.T.A.L.K.E.R. because of the radiation.
 
> I have a double converted to a unsigned signed char array.
Find the mistakes.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes That sentence hurts.
I made an array of chars, but I didn’t know whether they were signed or not, and I figured that you can’t make something unsigned that’s not already signed, so I made them signed so I could make them unsigned so I could convert them to double.
:|
 
@RMartinhoFernandes > I have a double converted to an unsigned signed char array
lol
 
8:29 PM
lol
Maybe he should try with a signed unsigned char array instead? :)
 
@JonPurdy where did that come from?
 
@MooingDuck Just something it seems to me the person who said that might say.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes The array is unsigned, the element type is signed char. :D
Negative array is one occupies the stack backwards.
 
@StackedCrooked I always thought it would be handy to have an array of unsigned, where the last element is signed.
 
@MooingDuck It's ok. Everyone has perverted fantasies from time to time.
:p
 
8:40 PM
0
Q: What is the performance penalty of operator overloading STL

ajayI like STL a lot. It makes coding algorithms very convenient since it provides you will all the primitives like parition, find, binary_search, iterators, priority_queue etc. Plus you dont have to worry about memory leaks at all. My only concern is the performance penalty of operator overloading ...

lol stupid question
 
std::Xstream is deprecated?
 
maybe conceptually :)
 
@Pubby Is assume you mean istream/ostream? What makes you think it is deprecated?
 
cppreference told me so
 
Link?
 
> I saw it on the Internet, so it must be true!
 
Also, does GCC not support move construction for streams?
 
@Pubby Xstrstream is deprecated, not Xstream
 
> Missing move and swap operations
Damn you GCC!
 
Heh, I never used istrstream and ostrstream.
Didn't even know they existed..
 
8:46 PM
@FredOverflow Oh, I never heard of those before
 
Also, don't confuse std::strstream with std::stringstream from <sstream> :)
 
<stringstream> == <sstream> ?
 
sorry, error, corrected
 
There's a <stringstream>?
 
@manasij7479 <stringstream> should not exist
 
8:47 PM
I know..
 
@Pubby there was a typo, but it has fled
 
No, <sstream> shouldn't exist ;)
 
really
 
@StackedCrooked But you know about std::valarray, right? ;)
 
Yep. Never used it though.
 
8:49 PM
I know the name, and that's about it.
 
I discovered it by accident and was a little shocked that I never stumbled upon it before.
 
I just did :D .. seems useful.
 
@manasij7479 you'd be surprised at how not-useful it is :/
 
"not-useful" is also spelled "useless" ;)
3
 
8:51 PM
There's even a song about std::valarray.
2
 
@StackedCrooked lol, can't watch here luckily
 
@MooingDuck: Why?
 
@manasij7479 it's only "useful" for doing parallel math, and there are C++ libraries out there that do the parallel math faster.
 
completely OT, but, I learned about 10 years ago that if you're going to help someone (IRL) and that someone is female, don't start off by reassuring that "it's simple". instead of reducing her fears (it will be simple for you) she apparently started thinking of me as very arrogant (it's simple for me, ha ha). just apropos nothing.
 
8:55 PM
@CheersandhthAlf having seen your comment wars I assure you: you are arrogant. :P
 
@CheersandhthAlf Never thought of that.
 
I'd say.. that much arrogance is good for health.
 
You should briefly mention "even babies understand this" during the explanation.
 
Nice idea..
 
8:58 PM
@CheersandhthAlf The last time a female asked me to help with her computer, I said "It's complicated. I can't promise any results. But I'll try, anyway."
 
@MooingDuck it's true that i've been involved in quite a few such wars here on SO. because I believe in free discussion and free expression, and argue against closing and anonymous downvoting and such. i think you're wrong about me but i totally understand the perception.
not to mention, i am aware that such perceptions is part of the price for taking the stands that i do
 

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