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12:03
Why the hell did I enable range-for for optional?
@RMartinhoFernandes I think it's the first time I wrote a range-for on an optional outside of the unit tests and the sheer absurdity of it only hit me now.
Soooo I wrote optional<T&> so that I could do void foo(optional<alias<T[N] const&> o = {}); foo({ t, t, t }); but now GCC segfaults :|
Mmmh that wasn't going to work anyway.
Wow, it's true. t.~T() is either a destructor call when T is of class type or a pseudo-destructor call when T is of scalar type. Arrays are right out. And the justification for the existence of pseudo-destructor calls in the first place is to facilitate writing generic code.
My mind just exploded.
So I can in fact placement new an array type but then what do I do later?
Oh I see. Placement new still returns a pointer to an element when used with arrays, not a pointer to the array. So arrays don't exist dynamically. I guess that does make sense in the end.
Well, I guess that means that new (&storage) T {}; followed by reinterpret_cast<T&>(storage) (elsewhere, due to aliasing rules) doesn't work with arrays.
12:34
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3
^ I wonder who makes this stuff.
@IntermediateHacker There are websites that let you convert jpegs to ASCII art !
@LucDanton Haha, it totally doesn't mean that.
@IntermediateHacker one of my first applications ever written was an ascii editor (terminal based), awesomeshiznit
woah!
damn, it isn't working.
12:49
@IntermediateHacker remember to reload chat. perhaps clear browser cache
13:06
morning
afternoon :P
silly dog, can't tell time
oh shit, I thought it was like, 10am :P
yeah... your just a little off
nah
I probably woke up prior to 10am and then fell asleep again
13:22
you trolled your self :S
@IntermediateHacker Someone who's horrible at pixel art.
@thecoshman It's morning over here.
@Xaade sigh, silly ... -_- fox? ... your in the wrong place clearly :D
oh, it's a wolf
His what?
penis
is bigger.
@CatPlusPlus who is => who's
13:36
You are => you're.
@CatPlusPlus ah, that's what you where on about :P
Were. I have an English class in two hours. :<
pip pip :{
so, is shitty work flow going to hound me for the rest of my professional career?
@thecoshman What work flow did you expect?
@Xaade one that flowed with the work
13:41
Education classes about workflow are pointless, because they typically have no reasonable understanding of actual work environments, and do not have reasonable expectations for the extreme pace of changing demands and circumstances (they also expect reasonable customers, which is naive).
gday
afternoon good sir
For example, they don't have a formal method that tasks correcting customer demands and making an educated guess at what the customer really needs. They put that decision in the hands of product management when often it's made by programmers in the line of fire.
@IntermediateHacker who the fuck stared that...
I'm blissfully ignorant of customer demands and only develop in-house stuff.
13:45
Who isn't?
@Xaade what I mean is, they like to make a 'report' for each shipment for all the bugs, or TRs as they call them, that have been fixed. AFAIK, you have to manual find all the TRs that need to be in this report (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
vcs log | grep fix
wait... are you making the assumption that source control and the bug tracker have any idea about each other?
@thecoshman Hmm.... Why a report? A single customer need is met, and the customer is informed on release. You don't have to inform all customers of all bug fixes that didn't affect them?
If you don't note tickets in the commit messages, your fault.
13:48
@Xaade I don't know. all I know is, I am expected to find all the bugs where fixed via changes to my area and list them in this freaky spread sheet
"Just to let you know, we had all this stuff broken that you didn't know about. I mean, it's good that we're making so much progress. " "Good??? As far as I can see, you're always corrected issues, so this great big list just proves how much you suck."
@CatPlusPlus oh yes, that's a very good idea, I bet every one does that ¬_¬
@thecoshman .... Seriously..... a spread sheet? That shit isn't automated?
@Xaade that's what I am getting at
so much shit that could and should be automated
Ideal setup is bugtracker scanning commit messages for ticket status messages (Trac-like, "fixed #xxxx", "closed #xxxx").
13:49
It's like one SQL database away for listing all the projects you did.
@thecoshman Everyone who doesn't want to do silly stuff by hand, yes.
@CatPlusPlus Do the numbers first, then status.
Ideal set up, is that when you close the bug ticket, you have to select what version it is fixed in
@CatPlusPlus Then group by numbers, and order by date.
It can be inferred from VCS metadata.
13:50
then it is just one nice search.
@thecoshman No, then it's just one nice search that someone else does.
@Xaade Group by numbers what?
@CatPlusPlus "#xxxx fixed" instead of "fixed #xxxx"
either way, it's just i.imgur.com/T7iUn.gif
Doesn't make much difference.
And looks unnatural.
13:52
@CatPlusPlus hmm.... no database experience.
Well, a bit.
VCS changelog is not a database.
I'de say <id><status> makes more sense, but it's a moot point really
@CatPlusPlus But you wanted to search it.
Sure, one might want to look at all fixed, but it's more likely they want the status of all projects.
You scan it on remote push, and note the changes in the bugtracker.
oh, wait to till I tell you about 'virtual binders'
13:54
@thecoshman Don't
Seriously, nobody ever seen Trac-like integration?
You people live in caves.
In my PMG, I have to setup a "task" on a "project" to denote which "files" need to be pushed.
@Xaade lol, suffice to say "email attachment"
Even though files are keyed to projects.
The editor for the file list, is under a task
...
You know how many projects I have that only have one task..... "file"
@CatPlusPlus is that the 'bug tracker messages in commits' magic?
13:59
@CatPlusPlus Doxygen for project management, through commit logs?
I think it is a handy system to have, but it sounds a bit risky and error prone to relly on it
in terms of FOSS bug trackers, is bugzilla the way to go?
@thecoshman Kinda as error prone as a manual typed list in an excel document as an email attachment.
If you like to have Perl on your server.
@Xaade indeed
14:01
@thecoshman What's error-prone about it?
@CatPlusPlus bugzilla requires perl?
@CatPlusPlus IMO, it's as error prone as a comment built with expectations of Doxygen.
Relying on humans to remember to close tickets after committing is more error-prone than closing them automatically based on the commit message.
@CatPlusPlus just seems easy to accidentally tag the wrong bug
@Xaade Eh?
@thecoshman Bugzilla is written in Perl.
14:02
@CatPlusPlus TIL
@CatPlusPlus 1. Rely on Doxygen to build your documentation. 2. Incorrectly format comment. 3. Lose documentation.
feature wise, what is it like? or are there 'better' solutions
@thecoshman You're not using these manual lists to determine who to release to?
@Xaade Never had any such problem.
@Xaade I'm not even sure what this list is for, I think it is for internal use... may be
14:04
As for project management, Trac or Redmine are nice.
@CatPlusPlus Then Trac-like integration won't have any such problem.
not heard of Redmine
by project management, do you mean something more then just bug tracking?
I think source control integration would be an improvement.
You check files out under project, when all files are checked in under project and pulled down into production to release, the project is cleared.
14:06
Branches.
When the branch is merged to release, project complete.
I've never seen a completed project.
Eh?
There are only differing stages of abandonment.
3
lol
I need a superstar.
Star is not enough for that.
@CatPlusPlus That can be used for other things too.
@CatPlusPlus I've never seen an employee brought to competent by his education.
There are only differing stages of abandonment.
Undergrad, grad, post-grad.
I've never seen a politician fix the economy.... there are only....
14:11
so... is Trac ~= bugzilla ~= redmine
Define ~=.
ZOMG.... you invented the technical version punchline comparable to "here's your sign."
approximately equal
@Xaade you lost me
@thecoshman Is that an associative operation?
Bugzilla is just a bug tracker. Trac and Redmine are more complete project management software.
14:13
Ok, there's a comedian that remarks about the stupid things people say, and then offers a "stupid sign" with the phrase "Here's your sign."
Example.
@Xaade also written as (so I am lead to believe) =/=
I was traveling down a highway and exited to find an 18-wheeler stuck under a bridge. Curious, I stopped to overhear the officer ask the driver if he was stuck. The driver replied, "Nope... I was delivering this overpass when I ran out of gas."... Here's your sign!
@Xaade oh, when people ask obvious questions. isn't that funny ¬_¬
Or like the lady that fed her kid ant poison to kill all the ants the kid ate.
so have you used Trac?
14:25
just started working with bitbucket (hg) for the first time (not the first time with hg). Uploading my repo... it's taking well over 5 minutes with hardly any traffic after 1 minute. Is this normal!?
how big is your repository? ;)
lemme see
du -shc .hg
49M	.hg
49M	total
I guess it's not small. But it's still fucking running. Wihtout considerable network traffic. What's taking so long...
Gimme git!
Uploading over HTTP or SSH?
ssh
Consumer-grade DSL gets terrible upload rates over here.
14:28
I have 2mbit upload
VDSL, yay
Whew. That was close to 9 minutes
remote: adding changesets
remote: adding manifests
remote: adding file changes
remote: added 3412 changesets with 22467 changes to 2539 files (+3 heads)
remote: bb/acl: sehe is allowed. accepted payload.
Maybe you've hit a slow server.
is this an initial commit?
> 3412 changesets
o_0 you expected me to read it?
> Remote repositories are currently not supported
@thecoshman yes and no. I forked it on the github side, then pushed from my local repo which contained way more branches
14:33
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
@sehe ah, git confused me too much. svn is a lot simpler, and for just me, it does that job nicely
@thecoshman toes curled up here
all these fancy features people talk about for git are pointless for just me
@thecoshman no they're not
@thecoshman ...
@sehe your not a svn man are you :P
14:34
but fuck git, it's about DVCS'es in general. You don't have to use the least user-friendly of them
Hg/git beat SVN at everything.
You don't need to use Git, but you definitely benefit from a DVCS
@thecoshman used to be. until something better came along. Used darcs on linux - but the requirements are tto stringent. Used bazaar because python would run on AIX (git at the time didn't compile on AIX). Then switched to git. Happy ever since
except, I know how to use SVN, and considering all I really use is revision control for when I fuck up, I see no reason to WASTE hours trying to learn a new tool
darcs, a.k.a. you have way too much time on your hands.
14:36
@thecoshman you don't feel the need to do merges?
In simple terms, SVN doesn't actually solve your problem. It's not version control. You can't use it to track your changes while you're working. You can use it to make a version once you're done working with it. But that's dumb and useless.
The real benefit is in versioning your changes as you work
Learning Hg: hg init, hg add, hg commit. Done.
With SVN that basically means breaking your trunk every single time
I rarely do branches on my own code. and from my experience, branches in svn are easy to manage
@thecoshman When do you usually fuck up? While coding, or while not coding?
14:37
With SVN you have to setup server or deal with file:/// URIs and all that silly stuff.
2
@CatPlusPlus on that note, how to add a remote, rebase some changes off another branch in hg? (I think I'll just convert this hg to git for the moment)
If the latter, you're weird. If the former, then you need a tool that enables you to keep version control while you're working, which means a DVCS
We at Hg don't believe in history modification.
@jalf what do you mean by 'whilst I am working'?
If you really want, there's Mq and rebase extensions.
14:38
@CatPlusPlus No need. I just need to apply a series of patches. From a remote branch. How to do such ?
Patches are usually managed via MQ.
@thecoshman I mean that with svn, you have one trunk, one repository, one view of the your code. That's fine for describing your code when you're not working on it (this is my latest version). But while you're working, you effectively have several versions: the last "working" version, the code as it looks now, and the code as it looked 10 minutes ago, before you changed that class over there and broke everything
@CatPlusPlus No need for fancies. I can do without extensions. Do you say the only other way is to save patches, apply and commit? I'm talking about 20-30 commits here
32 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
There are only differing stages of abandonment.
strangely related
@sehe "This extension is currently being distributed along with Mercurial."
You want to be able to version all those in-between snapshots too: You want a commit storing the code as it looked while it was unstable and you were working on this new feature, but before the last couple of changes to it
14:40
hg import applies and commits.
I don't know in what form you have those commits, I can't tell you anything less general.
@CatPlusPlus i thought so but I can't figure out how to tell it what source repo/branch to take from
@thecoshman branches in SVN are a thousand times more painful to manage than in sane tools
@jalf yeah... I want to work with MY version, usually the latest. if I want to play with trying something out in a older version I would branch at the version I want to play with
The other branch is in an unrelated (not my work) Hg repo of the same project.
@thecoshman Why would you spend hours on it? 5 minutes should do. A good DVCS is simpler to use than SVN.
14:41
@jalf With fewer WTF corner cases too. Deletions, moves, renames, branch, merge tracking, offline working
@thecoshman and yet you don't want a tool which allows you to work with those branches in a robust manner?
If it has common ancestry, you can just pull that branch. Hell, you can pull even if it's completely unrelated.
@jalf I know how to use SVN for everything I want to do... why spend any time learning a new tool. all I will gain is a new tool to do the same job
hg pull -b branch remote
@CatPlusPlus Example (say, i'm in /tmp/a, and the remote is in /tmp/b (branch X))?
14:42
You can check with hg incoming if it pulls only what you want.
@jalf what can I say, I've never had any issues with SVN doing what I do
@CatPlusPlus gee, that one was new for me, looking into it
@thecoshman no. You would gain a new tool to do the same jobs faster, more robustly and more easily. And it would allow you to use a much more natural workflow
except the work flow for svn makes perfect sense to me. it already fits me like a glove
@thecoshman Hg has a similar command set to SVN.
14:43
@thecoshman Sure, and if you asked a peasant 600 years ago, he'd never had any issues doing what he did either. That doesn't mean a tractor wouldn't have helped him
With the difference of not requiring any remote stuff.
@thecoshman no it doesn't
> abort: repository is unrelated
... seems too unrelated
How is it a branch, then?
@jalf I think I am in a better position to say how well a tool suits me
14:44
I've already described its shortcomings. You have no sane lightweight way to track intermediate unstable changes. You have to pull out some complex, inefficient, error-prone and heavyweight tools to do the same
You can use -f to force, but it might pull more than you need (-r limits what revisions you want).
@thecoshman Yes, sure. If you think a slow tool is better than a fast one. If you think typing two complex commands is easier than one simple one
There is nothing SVN does better than DVCS'es, except wasting developer time
Just remember that pulling rN:X pulls every ancestor, too.
Heck, even the SVN developers have said the same thing
If changeset IDs differ, then it'll be messy.
14:46
ok, so lets say I want to try working on improving the way a function works. I make sure I am uptodate, I make my changes, test, like the result, check it back in. or perhaps I am not to sure if I really want to commit this back to the main, so I commit to a branch. letting me carry on development in the main.
I see nothing wrong with this...
@CatPlusPlus not with git. Just a regular rebase, being just a series of cherry-picks. Or a format-patch --> apply on the side
@thecoshman how do you commit it to a branch?
You can cherry-pick with transplant extension.
And how do you carry on development in the main trunk? Those are fairly heavy-duty operations in SVN
hg export creates a patch.
14:47
@CatPlusPlus looks like what i want. sadly no time now, have to go
@CatPlusPlus multiple commits together?
@CatPlusPlus should do it too then
well, for the most part I used tortoise, and creating an managing branches was not a problem with it
(°□° )=~︵ ┻━┻
No need to throw, I fart them over.
SVN makes those operations so painfully slow and cumbersome that you tend to avoid them wherever possible. The threshold for "when is a good time to branch" is artificially raised because "ugh, SVN is so slow at branching, and switching between branches is a pain"
14:49
Really quite simple, I'm just too lazy to hg diff -cREV > /tmp/patch.REV repeatedly
Anyone would be. :P
I fail at English.
@thecoshman TortoiseHg > TortoiseSVN.
@CatPlusPlus Thanks for now
@jalf what can I say? I had no problems managing branches in SVN, perhaps I was not using enough branches to make hard for my self?
or perhaps I was committing often enough to not get into any real problems.
(╯^□^)╯︵ ┻━┻ Happy Throwing!
@thecoshman or perhaps you didn't realize they were problems
If you don't know they can be avoided, then you don't perceive them as problems
It's not a problem that it takes me 30 minutes to get to work. Except when someone else points out that they can get to work in 3 minutes
It's not a problem that SVN takes a minute to switch between branches. Except when you realize that even a slow DVCS can do it in a second
14:53
@jalf in my final year of three of us burned through two course works in about three weeks. we where flying the commits around, branch and merging. all whilst really learning how to use SVN. We never learnt how to branch and merge untill we did it, and it took no time to learn.
You should not assume that the process of learning a DVCS is similar to the process of learning SVN tbh.
coffe break
@thecoshman So you were willing to spend 3 weeks learning SVN, but won't pick up a better tool because it might take half an hour?
...
SVN is slow
I saw it try to pull everything down once...
It got Intellisense style lost...
14:55
I mean
Why is it so slow to copy 100 files.
but anyway, my problem with SVN is that it is slower, harder to use and less flexible, while also being harder to set up, harder to maintain, harder to share and harder to take backup of
even I can use Mercurial, somewhat
in other words, "why would you use it?"
Oh yeah.... pull from back on SVN.... woohoo
Want to go to the movies during work hours....???? Delete your repository and restore SVN from backup.
Besides, if you're scared of GIT, what will you do when cloud data storage takes off. When where data is won't matter anymore.
Backups???? We have 100 other copies on the net somewhere.
15:10
how can I in pure C/C++ create high-dimensional arrays at runtime of program?
@user1131997 C or C++?
I'd suggest creating a one-dimensional array, and just write wrapper code to treat it as a multidimensional array
I'd also suggest being really careful with "high-dimensional" arrays. You very quickly end up eating absurd amounts of memory
@jalf if i might to work with matrix caclulations, and matrix has 10k members?
for example
@user1131997 Isn't a matrix generally two-dimensional?
Do you just mean a large two-dimensional array?
@EtiennedeMartel because this forum is about C++ , so C++, but will be glad if and pure C version
@jalf thnaks for admitting my error, you are correct a large two-dimensional array, but the task with runtime creation still exists
15:15
So, do you want a 2D array, or an ND array, where N is determined at runtime?
@user1131997 I'd still do as I suggested: if you want to create an array with a width of w and a height of h, then create an array of w*h members. And to find element (x, y) just access array element x + y*w
2D array is a piece of cake; std::vector<std::vector<T>>
Maybe with a simple wrapper class that keeps all std::vector<T>s of equal size.
@jalf what? my point was learning SVN did not slow us down. it just worked
@thecoshman and yet you're assuming that learning, say, Hg or Bzr woudl slow you down?
that it wouldn't "just work"
@daknok_t 2D array, but witn N of (i, j) of matrix and the count of members must be generated in runtime as the values of this members
15:18
@jalf because trying to learning them DID slow me down
@thecoshman But you didn't
you tried to learn Git
or at least, that's what you said before
@user1131997 then you should go for a vector of vectors. Let me give you an example…
I don't quite see how hg init is harder to learn than svn init. Or hg commit vs svn commit
@thecoshman How did they slow you down?
I don't see why this seems so hard for you @jalf I tried SVN, was able to use it straight away with any problems. I tried to use git, I took me ages to sort out just getting a copy to work with
15:21
for example, I want to generate 1000 members in two matrixies and multiply these 2 matrixies and get 3-rd the result-matrix, then override them and set to 10000 member to each two matrixies and then gain the new result matrix

of course, it's must be in runtime && setting the values in each matrix must be in runtime too
@thecoshman I used SVN, and it fucked me in the ass every time I tried to merge a branch. I tried Hg, and it "just worked". SVN can go suck a donkey for all I care.
@thecoshman Seriously, learning SVN didn't slow you down and learning bzr does? You can use bzr in a central-repository scheme with almost exact the same commands as svn
@thecoshman Because I am not talking about Git
to google I go!
That was literally the first thing several of us said in this discussion: Git is a pain in the ass to use. The world is bigger than SVN and Git
15:23
ah, I see
Yeah, try Hg.
If you choose to try only the two suckiest VCS systems then yes, you're going to get weird results
28 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
http://hginit.com/
that's why you should compare the good ones
And yes, I'm aware that there are even worse ones than SVN, but they haven't been relevant for the last decade
I really like how hginit starts with "Subversion reeducation"
15:26
@jalf case in point... clearcase (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
I am sure we can all agree, it's utter shite
or PVCS
or CVS
or SourceSafe
Do not talk about VSS here.
point is, Git is notoriously hard to use, and it pretty much requires you to understand its internals
Bzr and Hg have all the added flexibility of a DVCS, and because they're more general, they're easier to use than SVN IMO. Fewer special cases, and fewer artificial limitations
@wilshipley git gets easier once you get the basic idea that branches are homeomorphic endofunctors mapping submanifolds of a Hilbert space.
@user1131997 here is a simple demo of a matrix class that uses vectors. The size can be passed to the constructor, but you can easily add your own resize functions if you want to.
15:29
@EtiennedeMartel Are they?
@LucDanton I don't even know what an endofunctor is.
@daknok_t thanks, it could be used not only in C++0x ?
Well obviously a functor where the domain is the same as the codomain.
SVN requires you to have one checkout and one server, and they have to be distinct. Why? That's just how it is. You have to set up your goddamn server! You can't have two servers, and you can't just have everything stored in one place. It's a silly, and needlessly contrived architecture. A more natural approach is that you have your code and its revision history together. And you can copy either or both around freely and safely
@user1131997 you should be able to use it with C++03 too.
15:30
@LucDanton "Obviously".
@EtiennedeMartel I kid, I kid. Seriously though, 'endo-' means 'inside'. You know, endothermic vs exothermic, endoskeleton vs exoskeleton.
So a functor which 'stays inside'.
A functor who's scared of the world? That's sad.
class endofunctor { private: void operator()() {}; };
@daknok_t thanks
@daknok_t Not the same type of functor though. Not that the pun doesn't work!
15:34
@user1131997 no problemo
hmm... is it possible to carry over revision history from svn to bzr?
ah, it seems so
Anyone here?
I'm trying to pass a multidimensional array to a function
My array:
string properties[MAX_LINES][NUM_FIELDS];
My function:
nevermind, might have fixed the problem.
heh
15:50
What the fuck is wrong with std::vectors today?
@Moshe string (*p)[NUM_FIELDS]
@daknok_t because, it's 13th day )
just realised that this company does not develop in a waterfall style after all, not even agile. nope, this company is using 'Buckaroo programming'
Can we please get a few fast reopen votes before the doofuses delete this?
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Q: Coding with an encrypted Souce Code. Possible or Not?

mohamed maacheI created a simple SFX application which works on Compressing / Packing files. When someone click the output file he will be prompted for a password, if password entered correctly the file decrypt it self following a specific routines. A customer said that my file was a virus, so i scanned the ...

legitimate question, even if it’s a bit weird
I would vote open, but don't have enough rep for that :(
16:02
how much does one need here on SO?
@bamboon more rep = more priverallages
HERE you only need 20
@thecoshman sure, but I mean for cast close/open
@bamboon there is a magical page some where
@thecoshman it's 3k
16:04
thanks guys!
wait, I just cottoned on to the fact that was a C# question :P
clearly, chat was created for C++
@thecoshman Well, this is one of the more active chats and at any rathe the only chat I frequent
so I asked here ;)
This is a rather nice chat room :)
16:16
wut?
oooh, you no undah-stand meh
solly, I stop now
I just read functor as fucktor. I must not attempt to work after playing squash.
well then, to those few about, good night
see ya
16:24
@thecoshman baaai!
I'm bored like a dwarf in a fun park.
boredom is the advent of inspiration
combined with chemistry homework
oh, that sucks. If it would have been physics, then the above still stands.
but then again, you wouldn't have been bored in the first place.
Yay, soon we’ll have @sbi back
16:44
@user1131997 use a proper array and calculate indices. Works wonders to create views/slices by ref as well. Also, don't. Use Blitz++, Eigen or some other existing library
Xeo
Xeo
16:59
Yay, I'm awake again

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