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10:01 PM
All test pass, but I was expecting a test failure because I didn't implement this feature yet. WTF.
 
Now that was odd
Some guy whining and raging at me on twitter because I told him off in a comment
 
shrugs
 
fuckdiddlyshitpissballs
2
 
@DeadMG i prefer dumbbullshitsauce
 
10:09 PM
@jalf Oh, that's the guy who hates C++ but loves Obj-C.
 
@jalf Linky?
 
twitter.com/jalfd How do I read twitter convos?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes H2CO3? Hmm, I recall seeing that name all over SO. It's like he's a commentwhore or something.
@H2CO3 See this paper from Stroustrup on why C++ is better than C as a "beginner language". — Etienne de Martel 56 secs ago
Oh, it's on.
 
Why don't you just invite him to chat?
 
10:14 PM
I could.
But should I?
 
Oh gosh, no.
Please!
 
What. The Hell.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Alright, alright. I won't.
 
i started with C
so i made a mistake? :(
I should have started with C++? :(
 
I started with C too.
 
Xeo
Likewise.
 
10:15 PM
C is worthless knowledge unless you have a really specific use case.
 
Me too! Me too!
 
and I also started programming in the C subset of C++.
 
I learned C++ and C using cprogramming.com and cplusplus.com
 
cprogramming.com, same here.
looking back on it, it's so terrible
 
Xeo
I learned C through the online edition fo a book, and then got the C++ book from the same author.
 
10:17 PM
Well, I didn't start programming with C. I learned C before C++. And not as a step for learning C++, either. I learned C about ten years ago from some random book from the library, and C++ about a year and a half ago.
 
user1804599
I started with Objective-C and then I learned C. :<
 
It probably wasn't a good site but I learned very quickly with them
 
yeah
I also didn't take too long to roll with it
 
@DeadMG You suck.
 
Xeo
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Were we all have the dark history of having learned C first. [beep] [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
 
10:17 PM
@Pubby Oh shit. I feel for you, bro.
 
@AlbertoBonsanto Only you can decide if it was a mistake. But you would likely have had an easier start if you'd picked another language
 
@DeadMG Why didn't you learn from codepuppy.co.uk?
 
@Xeo I didn't.
@R.MartinhoFernandes That would have required a time machine.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Fuuuuuu. If only I'd known it was available!
 
@EtiennedeMartel Look at him, all smug and shit.
 
10:18 PM
But every programming language is worth learning. C is worth learning too, I just wouldn't start with it :)
 
@Xeo Hey! You cannot !
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm writing this in my underwear, content with the fact that I did absolutely fuck all today.
 
Xeo
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Were we all have the dark history of having learned C first. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
 
Well i got my degree in Electrical Engineering now i started Computational Engineering and in the University they force us to use C
 
that's the second time you've made that joke, and you spelled "Where" wrong again.
how embarassing
:P
 
10:19 PM
I think learning C before C++ is good advice for certain types of people
It really depends on the reason of why you're learning C++
 
nah
 
If you are interested in how computers work then diving into C is what you want
 
there's little reason to learn C unless you've got a specific use case in mind.
@Pubby C++ offers exactly the same low-level view if you want it.
 
@DeadMG Is C that bad?
 
If you're interested in writing good and fast code (e.g. coming from C# or Java) then C++ is what you want
 
10:20 PM
@Pubby Andrew Koenig disagrees, and I agree with him.
 
@AlbertoBonsanto Yes.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes What did he say?
 
C is C++, but with almost all of the features worth using cut.
 
Can I use Koenig lookup to find Koenig quotes?
 
10:21 PM
@AlbertoBonsanto C is mostly a legacy language, now. You use it when you don't have any choice.
 
fuck you, worthless government people
 
> You've been busy! Looks like you've hit your 2 article limit.
???
 
Aug 29 at 13:39, by R. Martinho Fernandes
That's why I think bottom-up is a bad teaching approach for C++. It makes student experimentation worthless or even harmful.
 
How can you understand UB if you don't grok the low level stuff?
 
@Pubby It's not about understanding it. It's about not being able to play around.
 
user142019
10:23 PM
I’m preparing myself for doomsday. I’m learning Java. ;_;
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes What does that mean?
 
Because you will hit UB at every corner, and without someone around to tell you otherwise, you may draw the wrong conclusions.
 
user142019
@Pubby common sense. “Undefined” is a word with a meaning, and so is “behavior”. If you know C++ is defined somewhere (the Standard), it shouldn’t take more than a minute to learn what UB is.
 
more relevantly, there is a complete shitbunch of UB which has absolutely no low level correlation whatsoever.
 
10:24 PM
@Pubby Doing your own experimentation, without constant guidance.
 
If you grok the low level stuff then UB just comes naturally
 
wich is better C++, C# or Java?
And wich are the weaknesses of C++
try to be objective
 
@AlbertoBonsanto That would be asking which is better between a hammer, a drill and a buzzsaw.
 
Visual Paradigm is SO FUCKING ANNOYING
 
10:25 PM
Well obviously a drill.
 
@CatPlusPlus OH YEAH? TELL ME MORE.
 
user142019
@AlbertoBonsanto they are all terrible so it doesn’t matter.
 
@AlbertoBonsanto Since this is the C++ chatroom everyone is going to say Java
 
i said try to be objective :)
 
@Pubby That's fairly immaterial.
 
10:26 PM
i was wonderding they say objective-C
;)
 
@AlbertoBonsanto I think C++ is the best, C# is in second place, and Java I tend to shit on and then throw in the bin.
 
@DeadMG Java was good in 1995.
(I'm not serious)
 
C++ is the most flexible and won't stop you from doing what you want to do, C# is ... OK ... but it's easier to use. Java is just terrible in every way imaginable.
 
Java would have been good in 1960
 
@DeadMG You waste shit on Java?
 
10:28 PM
Java's main problem is it's not updated often enough.
 
user142019
I’ll have my first Java class in four days and I’m preparing by learning Java.
 
user142019
It’s really a fucked-up piece of junk.
 
@EtiennedeMartel That's mostly a problem because it started out as a crock of shit.
@Zoidberg'-- I wouldn't bother. You won't have to prepare to learn Java.
 
user142019
Not even private inheritance. Lambdas are overly verbose.
 
@DeadMG The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
 
10:29 PM
not the Java Hell
 
I wonder what is more newb-friendly, an invalid pointer dereference or hitting a 100 page template error.
 
@AlbertoBonsanto context man, it all depends on context
 
the road to Java is paved with "I think operator overloading is too tough, so FUCK EVERYONE ELSE, BANHAMMER!!ONE!1".
 
@Pubby Depends on what happens when the pointer de-reference goes wrong.
 
10:30 PM
@Pubby The latter is clearly wrong. The former may "work" and lead you to wrong conclusions.
 
because if it's "Fifteen minutes later the app corrupts all the user's data" or "Appears to work", then I'd absolutely go for #2.
 
why almost all games in windows are coded in C++ and not other language? :P
 
@DeadMG it is if you are trying to use Java
 
@DeadMG !!!twelve!
 
there are no other languages which really work for writing games
 
10:32 PM
@AlbertoBonsanto mostly history. C++ was one of the best languages you could have for games
 
user142019
Haskell.
 
I mean, you can write a game in most languages, but C++ is easily the best fit.
 
@DeadMG well, C# is not bad, if you can stick XNA
 
@thecoshman Or SlimDX and stuff like that.
 
user142019
Not to mention JavaScript.
 
10:33 PM
the problem with hardware-accelerated C# is that you really, really need deterministic destruction- real deterministic destruction, not their IDisposable shit- to deal with GPU resources.
 
@thecoshman You mean that 32bit-only thing with the worst asset pipeline in game development history?
 
I think you got your terms wrong somewhere. There's nothing non-deterministic about IDisposable.
 
user142019
I keep putting semicolons after class definitions in Java. :<
 
@EtiennedeMartel yeah, but it is technically an option
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Depends on what you want to dispose of and where it is when you need to dispose of it.
 
10:35 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, it's probably not deterministic enough for him.
 
I mean, you'd have to roll all of your own containers so they'd properly Dispose() of stuff, your own smart pointers, everything, and God help you if you need to use a third-party class that won't Dispose() of your stuff, and even after all of that is done, you still have to manually using every new stack variable
 
still, C++ is one of the few, if not the only, language that combines both low level performance with enough age for high level convenience and libraries, in particular those that lend them selves towards game development
seriously, just try using OpenGL in Java, it will make you bleed out your arse
 
@DeadMG Yes, I can agree with you that it's a bit annoying. It's perfectly deterministic thought: when you call Dispose, it's gone.
 
user1804599
Use Python and write performance-critical parts in C or C++.
 
@Aardvark lol
 
10:40 PM
I didn't say it was non-deterministic, I said it was shit.
 
@thecoshman Don't remind me of that. I still remember that question you had around.
 
@Aardvark you mean write a launcher in python :P
 
Well... "real deterministic destruction".
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oooh yes, that was a 'fun' two weeks
 
as in, deterministic destruction it's actually remotely feasible to use.
 
10:41 PM
Hey guys... anyone familiar with databases?
 
2
Q: Error when trying to use VBO "array vertex_buffer_object must be disabled to call this method"

thecoshmanEDIT I have effectivley re-wrote this question in order to greatly imrpove its quality - see revision logs if you must I have narrowed down my problem to the initialisation phase of my program, when I am trying to create my vertex buffer. The code that I am currently using is... vaoID = new in...

I still want that 100 rep back one day :P
 
FFS, my RPi doesn't show up on the network.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm going to blame your router/switch/dhcp server
 
Seriously, who wrote this shit aaaaaaaaaargh
Worse UI than fucking OSX.
 
@CatPlusPlus evening
 
10:45 PM
And that's telling.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Thanks, seen that before. — H2CO3 25 mins ago
And he's still recommending C over C++?
Fuck this shit.
 
@CatPlusPlus Any specific shit?
 
Visual Paradigm
 
> You will be required to provide a supporting letter.
wtf does that mean?
 
How does one make a database into 2nd normal form?
 
10:48 PM
Just use an A.
 
By changing the schema to be 2NF.
 
@Crowz don't worry about. Just try to remove as much duplication as you can
@DeadMG covering letter I would guess
 
How about 3rd and 4th
 
wat dafuq
 
Do you know what they are, or are you just asking us to do your homework
 
10:51 PM
I have to have some prick at my university sign off on me telling them to go fuck themselves?
 
Ell
somebody just needs to make an awesome build system, then convert a load of libraries to it
 
I have to give them some form telling them to fuck off so I can be done
but some dick at said university has to sign it
 
Ell
if I was a multi millionaire I'd pay people to do that
 
Nah I'm studying
Making a cheatsheet
in 9pt text, no margins, double sided. YEAH.
 
Ell
10:53 PM
the build system shouldn't be the thing that stops you using s library/language!
 
all build systems suck
this I believe to be a universal rule
 
Normal form is all about database optimisation, so there really is no one answer fits all
 
Ell
@deadmg is that current build systems or all possible build systems?
 
hmmm
former for sure, latter certainly possible.
 
I think you need a build system that is part of the language it self, and well designed
 
Ell
10:57 PM
I think the languagei t
needs abi compatibility for it to start being good
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes what you up to with your Pi?
 
that's never gonna happen
 
@thecoshman I was (trying to) use it as a build server to test stuff on Linux and clang.
 
@Ell Yes.
@Ell What.
 
But now it disappeared off the face of the network. Maybe the crappy network cable died. I hope.
 
Ell
10:59 PM
building the same libraries for different compilers/ versions makes it annoying
 

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