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Xeo
3:00 PM
And I believe GCC will be even longer
 
Well, GCC is written in C.
 
Xeo
It's the linking that took most of the time, 1:10h
 
morning
 
user784668
@Xeo I wonder why it takes so long on your computer. Is it because binutils in Debian (IIRC) suck or because the file format sucks?
 
Xeo
I seriously don't know.
 
user784668
3:07 PM
I'm going to find out.
 
user784668
I'm soooooo curious I gotta do this.
 
Xeo
And I just want gcc-4.7
:|
 
user784668
Build it?
 
Xeo
Didn't I just say building big codebases sucks on my vbox?
 
user784668
Vbox?
 
3:09 PM
@Fanael Is it the computer? :->
 
user784668
Why on Earth you're building that on a vbox?
 
@Fanael cause native linux installs are a drag
 
user784668
@sehe That's another possibility. I think it's unlikely, though.
 
and Cygwin/MSYS is 10 times slower than VM linux
 
user784668
@rubenvb Any linux installs are.
 
3:11 PM
at least VM linux installs mostly work ootb
 
user784668
@rubenvb Maybe, but on my Windows, linking Clang took just over 20 seconds.
 
@Fanael Clang here never took less than a minute with GNU tools (on Windows)
I think
I should think before I speak more often
 
user784668
@rubenvb Maybe that's because your machine is slower than mine.
 
@Fanael didn't you mention this the other day and shock people with your seemingly impossibly fast linking?
 
user784668
@thecoshman Yeah.
 
3:12 PM
yeah, he has quadruple SSD RAID and dual octa-cores and shizzle
(guesswork and conjecture)
 
Xeo
@Fanael Windows host, and I just wanted to play around with linux at one point
 
user784668
No, a middle-end quad-core CPU and an average HDD.
 
@thecoshman haven't tried, but I guess my PC does the same. It is 'just' a Q9550 and you don't need no stinking SSDs if you work on tmpfs. 8Gb RAM is too much anyway :)
 
user784668
@sehe No tmpfs here.
 
(P.S. I do love my stinking SSDs but I spare them by not building on them. My /tmp is in RAM and I do most of my work there. Including ccache cache dirs and stuff: reduces wear on the SSDs too)
 
Xeo
3:17 PM
So, what to do now? :( Sort out the dependencies by hand or tinker with the settings?
 
@Xeo install ubuntu and enable the gcc snapshots PPA. That's bound to be faster
 
Xeo
No thanks, I'll stay with pure Debian :P
 
aharharhar
it workses!
 
Lovely 404s you've got there.
 
I know
 
user406009
3:20 PM
Nice "design" too.
 
but the point is that the DNS redirection actually worked
 
lolz
 
which is a first
fuck you shitty web shit, I am the winner once again
 
so now we need to hack www.wide-language.com
and get access to the to-secret wide-language specs
 
sorry, it's static
 
3:20 PM
and upload them to the piratebay or something
muhuhahaha
 
so I don't quite see how you're going to hack a static website :P
 
user406009
We find the hidden folders.
 
user406009
Which contain the fun.
 
no, we hack the pc which is running the website
which is bound to be at your place
or something
 
It's run by Amazon.
 
3:22 PM
damn
 
actually, I'm going to ditch amazon and go back to stealing Tony's hosting
now that I have a working CNAME redirect, it won't be too hard to point it to his domain
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Learn to hate build systems. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
CNAME sucks, it causes the lookup process to restart.
 
Is there a system behind the topic changes?
 
What about performance?
HUH?
 
3:23 PM
couldn't get A-record to work
else I would have used that
 
@John No.
 
FTR, the current CNAME record points to another CNAME record, so it's even worse.
 
o really?
 
www.wide-language.com.  80      IN      CNAME   elasticbeanstalk-us-east-1-973760226147.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com.
elasticbeanstalk-us-east-1-973760226147.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com. 80 IN CNAME s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com.
s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com. 80 IN A     72.21.214.81
This is what dig tells me.
 
Going back to goddamn build systems, I think I'll be stuck with make. Except now all Makefile generators suck.
 
3:25 PM
@Xeo You can manually install the dependencies, but that tends to open up further problems (i.e. some of those packages are non-installable for a reason).
 
@LucDanton You mean, non-installable, right? I think "uninstallable" already has a meaning.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Great. :( So, any idea how to get that to work? Or rather, how did you guys get that to work?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Good catch, was wondering why the spell-checker was chocking on that.
 
ok
now I have one single A record pointing to Tony's hosting
 
@Xeo Manual install = sudo apt-get -t unstable install foo_dependency by the way.
 
3:27 PM
now give it another decade to propagate across the Internets
:(
 
lols. MediaUpload made ROM sites go dark.
 
You mean MegaUpload?
 
hmm
do you really think it's necessary to have member variables be destructed in a specific order?
I've never seen or written any type which had dependencies between it's members in that way
 
@DeadMG Just use an elastic IP - that way you can haz fixed IP even if you switch EC2 instances
 
3:35 PM
Or don't care.
After the first lookup the A record gets cached.
 
@DeadMG I'm not sure if it's necessary, but it'd consistent with order of construction/destruction of base subobjects I think. Not sure if that's a compelling argument, but there is always something to be said for consistency.
 
true
but there's the advantage of least surprise when constructing, because you can pick the order in which you construct them from constructor to constructor
 
@DeadMG It's nice to have a deterministic initialization order, and I think it's good to be consistent and make destruction have the opposite order of initialization.
@DeadMG Oh, that complicates thing then :S
 
@DeadMG I was assuming at least 'reverse order of construction', as Martinho has pointed out.
 
In C++ you can't pick different orders for different constructors.
 
3:39 PM
well, exactly, because if you allow people to construct things as written in the init list, which is the most natural and intuitive way to go, then you can't know in what order they were constructed in the destructor to destruct them in said reverse order
perhaps I should default to C++'s behaviour but allow overriding it?
 
The cost of overriding being the loss of deterministic destruction order? Sounds good, as long as said overriding is explicit.
 
You can specify 'order of init-list' and make programs that have inconsistent order across constructors ill-formed.
 
I mean, logically, if you don't have a required order of construction, you shouldn't have a required order of destruction either
 
user784668
1
Q: Windows vs. Linux memory allocation performance

Doron YaacobyI'm porting C++ code from Linux to Windows. During this process, I found out that the following line takes ~10 times slower under Windows (on exactly the same hardware): list<char*>* item = new list<char*>[160000]; On Windows it takes ~10ms, while on Linux it takes ~1ms. This hap...

 
user784668
Anyone else feels that it's going to be a flamewar?
 
3:42 PM
@LucDanton That's dumb. The compiler can perfectly well cope with mixed.
"By default, member variables are constructed in the order they are declared, and destructed in the reverse order. However, if a type has any user-defined constructor which calls the constructors in a different order in the initializer list, then the order of destruction is unspecified."
that's what I have right now
 
@DeadMG I'm still assuming reverse order of destruction.
 
user784668
@Xeo: I just build Clang on a vboxed Arch. It took... well, you're not going to believe me, I guess.
 
Xeo
:(
 
user784668
So the reason is that Debian sucks.
 
hmm
 
Xeo
3:52 PM
any special flags to ./configure or make?
 
string : immutable_string?
 
--go-faster
 
user784668
Other than enabling optimizations, disabling assertions and enabling only selected targets? No.
 
user784668
../llvm/configure --enable-optimized --disable-assertions --enable-jit --disable-docs --enable-threads --enable-shared --disable-timestamps --enable-targets=x86,x86_64,arm
 
Mutable strings suck.
 
3:53 PM
meh
user choice, as far as I'm concerned
 
@Fanael something is wrong in that statement, I wonder what it is
 
hmmm
 
@RMartinhoFernandes anyways, I was off course, since it obviously not under hist control (I forgot he linked to a bucket, not an EC2 instance)
 
different things to put in the Standard lib
 
user784668
@sehe I know. Debian sucks the big one. Sorry for omitting that.
 
3:56 PM
IO, concurrency, containers, algorithms
 
@Fanael I wonder what doesn't suck, then. Gentoo (?!?! Lol)
 
user784668
@sehe Everything does more or less.
 
That's what I think.
In my opinion, Debian sucks way less than many other things in my daily life.
Debian Dev culture is another matter, but there isn't much you cannot do to avoid running into that
 
Vacuum cleaners suck very much.
 
(loving a double negative)
@RMartinhoFernandes Suck puppets, especially when the kids haven't picked up their toys
 
4:02 PM
I find Gentoo the least annoying.
 
user784668
@CatPlusPlus Except when you have to install something, right?
 
I was keen on Ubuntu ¬_¬ but then they went all funky with it. Debian is stable (they say), so I might give it a more long term try
 
user784668
@CatPlusPlus Then you must have helluva lot of time on your hands.
 
Not really.
 
4:05 PM
@DeadMG did you get my email?
 
let me check
 
@thecoshman I've been used a stripped down version - Lubuntu - quite good without all the bloatware (I prefer to sudo apt-get XXX stuff I want). Lxde faster than kde and gnome (and uses less memory)
 
you is wrong, blud
 
that on my hosting?
 
@kfmfe04 yeah, thought about Lubuntu. Isn't it lxfe?
 
4:07 PM
no, Amazon's S3
 
ah k
but do you still want to use my hosting space?
 
but when the DNS update happens, it will be your hosting
yes
 
ah right
 
I think, anyway, that it should be just fine, and I just didn't leave it for long enough for the DNS to propagate
 
@thecoshman http://lxde.org/lxde
isn't all that pretty, but it's fast and is memory-efficient
which is all I need anyways (don't play games on it - just do development via ssh)
and a meld, once in a while, when I don't commit to git as often as I should
 
4:10 PM
@kfmfe04 will have to give it a go via virtual box :P
 
@thecoshman exactly how I am running it right now 8^)
 
hello
 
@kfmfe04 I also want to look into playing with using virtual box and headless servers
 
hmmm
I need to improve my specification of the ranged integer type
things get funky as soon as you start involving multiplication or division, for example
 
4:12 PM
there is a lot of extra doc for vBox that tells you about so many features the GUI manager just doesn't offer
 
well
imagine that I had a C++ type ranged_int<int min, int max> for example
 
@thecoshman well, you could turn off X if you like, but these days, most of the wm's are so light-weight, it doesn't hurt too much to have them around. With Lubuntu, I use it headless 95% of the time, but it's really nice having the windowing system during that last 5%...
 
how could you implement operator*? you can't just expand the range because not all the intermediate values are valid results of that operation
 
Oh, there's a new C++ proposal with similar intent. Maybe that can be of help.
Gimme a sec to find it.
 
@kfmfe04 you can always just start the GUI when you really want it
 
have you seen nomachine? it's sort of like a remote desktop.
 
i have a static lib that uses crt /md the people using my static lib are using it with MFC and say i need to use crt /mt which i do but then i guess MFC libs need to be linked in a specific order. I guess they using a MFC dll (assuming) that is linking to this static lib but they get a lot of compile errors LNK2005 xxx has already been defined and lnk1169 symbols are already defined.
 
They use exponents as the template parameters.
 
@thecoshman aye - with *nix, you can configure it whichever way you like
 
I made sure that recompile my static lib with the /mt crt
 
4:15 PM
eh
they don't really solve the problem that I have in mind
 
and created a basic MFC DLL that uses it and from what i have read on google they say that MFC ned to be linked in a certain order
 
they have limited resolution whereas I don't
 
LIBCMT.lib seems to be the majority of the cases in the MSVCRT.lib file.
 
I had a thought, though
 
Well, ranged_int<10,20> is not a type suitable for multiplications and divisions.
No result of a multiplication or division ends up in the same range.
 
4:18 PM
what if I altered it so that instead of min, max you had a boolean predicate?
 
Als
@kfmfe04: Just so u know i settled for this: freedownloadmanager.org
 
something like, in pseudo, pastebin.com/Qq0aXVht
 
@thecoshman why sort of? FreeNX + related rock. Although I must admit that I haven't found any use for graphical desktop connections across the internet lately. This might have a lot to do with the fact that my current job has firewall/proxy that isn't too easily bypassed
 
user784668
Is template <typename T, T something> okay?
 
user784668
Assuming that all Ts will be integer types.
 
4:20 PM
Yes.
 
@Als nice!
 
std::integral_constant uses that.
 
@sehe indeed that is the one. It's rather nice. Though tunnelling X works rather well too if you are only playing with the odd thing
 
+1 @sehe - I also use FreeNX
 
4:22 PM
@DeadMG Are you sure you can make that work in the general case?
 
no, that's why I asked you :P
 
Als
@rubenvb: I downloaded i686-w64-mingw32-gcc-4.6.3-1_rubenvb but seems the MinGW folder under codeblocks has different files/structure from this. I remember you saying just replace it, replace what?
 
I mean, I have the power to introspect the predicate and make up new ones whenever I wish, so the language power to do such a thing wouldn't be a problem
it's whether or not the concept is viable
 
@Als it would seem to make sense to address that message to @rubenvb
 
I suppose it would have a restriction of requiring a pure predicate, or something like that.
 
Als
4:23 PM
@sehe: I had already done that, I dont know why you didn't see it
 
oh yes
 
Because otherwise I don't think you can mix them easily like that.
 
@Als Me neither :) Oh well
 
I'm not going to allow something like ranged_integer< [&](int i) { return IsIntInDatabase(i); }>
 
Als
@rubenvb: nevermind :)
happens
 
4:27 PM
Interval arithmetic is not complicated, so I think the original one with two limits would be doable. This more general one also seems doable, but with lots more work.
 
Consider ranged_int< [](int i) { return i % 2 == 0; }>.
 
hmm
ow
I admit that whilst I can see the logic, I can't see the code for the general case of multiplication with such a thing
hang on a minute
that's not really a range at all
no wonder I can't imagine what the range would look like, because there isn't one
 
Ah, so there are more restrictions.
 
well, I may have to add additional restrictions
the purpose of the type is only to guarantee the validity of arithmetic at run-time, it is not designed to hold arbitrary predicates
 
4:34 PM
But what kind of range can you express with a predicate that you can't with ranged_int<lo, hi>?
 
meh
I hate complicated complications, that only lead to more complications
 
well, the
when you multiply by another value, then not all of that range is actually valid
you can't just do lo * 2, hi * 2 to multiply by 2
 
Interval arithmetic, interval mathematics, interval analysis, or interval computation, is a method developed by mathematicians since the 1950s and 1960s as an approach to putting bounds on rounding errors and measurement errors in mathematical computation and thus developing numerical methods that yield reliable results. Very simply put, it represents each value as a range of possibilities. For example, instead of estimating the height of someone using standard arithmetic as 2.0 meters, using interval arithmetic we might be certain that that person is somewhere between 1.97 and 2.03 mete...
[a, b] × [c, d] = [min (a × c, a × d, b × c, b × d), max (a × c, a × d, b × c, b × d)]
 
I have more specific limitations, though
that stuff is over the reals, and I'm only on integers
also, I do not allow infinite ranges
 
I believe the same rules with small modifications apply for integral intervals.
 
4:42 PM
also, I was looking for something with more precision
 
The thing I hate the most about AI, is that it was invented by the guy who invented Lisp.
 
@DeadMG Example?
 
sbi
How do you spell the safe-bool idiom in C++11?
 
explicit operator bool() const
 
well, if you do ranged_integer< [](int i) { return i >= 3 && i <= 5; } > multiplied by ranged_integer< [](int i) { return i == 2; }>, then I'd want a ranged_integer that would barf on being given 7
 
sbi
4:44 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Thanks!
 
@DeadMG So, a range with holes?
 
yes
I want to keep all information available at compile-time, including the existence of holes
 
Well, that will only be feasible if you place the right restrictions on the predicates.
 
I know
the question is which restrictions?
 
If you allow them to be too arbitrary, it will get out of hand quickly.
Only elementary arithmetic and comparisons?
 
4:47 PM
yes, that's what I was thinking
does elementary arithmetic include modulus?
 
user784668
Do you think I should tell the asker that even I was among the people who flagged this question as a duplicate?
 
no
 
user784668
Darn it, wrong link.
 
user784668
0
Q: How can I recover the memory from a std::vector?

bobobobo Possible Duplicate: How to downsize std::vector? C++ vector::clear When I call vector<double>::clear() on some vectors with large sizes, I do not see the memory returned to the system in Task Manager / Performance. Apparently this is because the container expects you will use ...

 
closed as exact duplicate by Wyzard, larsmans, Benjamin Lindley, Grizzly, Xeo 22 mins ago
 
user784668
4:50 PM
See comments to the question.
 
don't see your name on the list
 
He probably flagged since he doesn't have the rep to close?
I don't see the point of mentioning it.
 
user784668
@DeadMG I have 836 rep. I can't close questions. Flagging is all I can do.
 
Unless you have some kind of conscience thing that nags you about it, there's no reason to do it.
The ideal solution would be to ditch the conscience.
 
> Hey, closers, did you know that the answer provided here is better than in the linked question?
That guy needs a slap to the face.
 
4:54 PM
lol
 
user784668
@RMartinhoFernandes What conscience? I sold mine when I was young.
 
sbi
> If you suspect the answer(s) here to be better, I suggest that you propose in the chatroom to merge this into the other question. If the users there agree, it can be flagged for merging. (In fact, if you get enough support, you might even be able to reopen this and close the others as a dupe of this one.) — sbi
@EtiennedeMartel ^
 
Well, well. I wasn't aware you could merge questions.
 
@EtiennedeMartel you can't. Mods can, I think.
 
The more you know.
 
user784668
5:00 PM
@sbi Quite likely he'll ignore this.
 
@Fanael It's not like we got anything to lose.
 
user784668
@EtiennedeMartel Except the time spent to write this comment?
 
@Fanael It was @sbi's time, not mine. Baha.
Anyway, at best, he comes here, we have a healthy discussion, and hopefully SO becomes a better place. At worst, he doesn't, and we can keep talking about sex and templates.
 
user784668
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah, of course.
 
user784668
@EtiennedeMartel Sex with templates?
 
5:03 PM
@Fanael If that's what you like, sure. I'm not going to judge you.
 
user784668
@EtiennedeMartel Well, complicated templates certainly fuck with your mind.
 
user784668
While we're at it, how does Loki::MakeTypelist template work?
 
Loki? The lib that's overkill for any practical application?
 
user784668
Yes.
 
5:09 PM
@Fanael Recursion.
 
Yeah, TMP is essentially functional, it's probably recursion.
 
user784668
@LucDanton No shit. I see that it uses recursion.
 
@Fanael Then why ask?
I'm guessing that TypeList<T, U> is a cons cell.
 
It does kinda look like it might be recursing indefinitely.
 
user784668
5:12 PM
@LucDanton Because I don't know how it works. To me it looks like it'd recurse forever.
 
Poor man's variadic templates.
 
    template<>
    struct MakeTypelist<>
    {
        typedef NullType Result;
    };
This is the recursion base case.
 
Beautiful, magical.
 
TypeList is the cons cell, NullType is the empty list.
 
user784668
@RMartinhoFernandes Yup, but I don't see where it reaches the base case.
 
5:15 PM
@Fanael When all non NullType parameters are taken.
It recurses every time without T1 and with one extra NullType at the end (added through default arguments).
When all arguments are defaulted (MakeTypelist<>), it ends.
 
Ooh.
Still, variadic templates.
 
user784668
@RMartinhoFernandes And the question now is, why MakeTypelist<> is used when all parameters are NullTypes?
 
src\base\ftsystem.c:30:10: error: #include expects "FILENAME" or <FILENAME>
 
Because all parameters default to NullType?
 
Stupid Freetype.
 
5:18 PM
        typename T1  = NullType, typename T2  = NullType, typename T3  = NullType,
        typename T4  = NullType, typename T5  = NullType, typename T6  = NullType,
        typename T7  = NullType, typename T8  = NullType, typename T9  = NullType,
        typename T10 = NullType, typename T11 = NullType, typename T12 = NullType,
        typename T13 = NullType, typename T14 = NullType, typename T15 = NullType,
        typename T16 = NullType, typename T17 = NullType, typename T18 = NullType
 
user784668
So <> matches "all-default" case?
 
user784668
Weird.
 
user784668
Makes sense, but it's weird.
 
anyone know of a smooth curve with a nice analytic solution for the length? NURBS/Bezier have horrible integrals
 
5:27 PM
for member function pointers, it's const part of the type? class foo { bool one() const; would have type bool( foo::*)() const?
 
user784668
@MooingDuck Yes.
 
@MooingDuck Yes.
 
5:40 PM
Did @Als fix his problem?
 
@rubenvb: Thought I'd let you know: When I had a "dll not found" error you implied it was because I got the mingw.org version. I (later) got the same with your version. The cause was C:/minGW/bin wasn't on the system path.
 
@MooingDuck yeah, you can "fix" that by linking libgcc/libstc++ statically, by using "-static", but you'll lose the ability to throw exceptions over dll boundaries. This is comparable to a missing msvc[r|p]XXX.dll
you can also just add the bin directory to PATH, or copy the dll's alongside your app
 
@rubenvb yeah I just added bin to the path. Far easier, and solves more problems
 
Just remember to copy the dll's when sharing the result of all your work ;)
 
5:49 PM
@TonyTheLion there's a lot of information missing from that sentance
 
right
 
Distributing the source is so much easier than distributing working binaries.
You can let other people worry about how to get that crap working!
 
@CatPlusPlus when working with programmers? yes. When working with roommates, or the people on the internet (those who leave youtube comments)....
 
5:52 PM
Don't work with them.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes *when distributing to
 
actually finding and obtaining the source to begin with requires enough of a skillset to begin with, so there's already a small barrier to entry into that exclusive club ;)
 
It's called natural selection.
 
@TonyTheLion that's an interesting link on running a DB off the GPU - I would think there would be bottlenecks in copying results back to RAM...
 

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