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10:00 PM
But it is really just a bunch of .bat files.
Jenkins is just a front really.
 
Oh I'd assumed Jenkins was a python thing for some reason
 
Jenkins/hudson is written in java.
:)
 
the thing I really want is an easy way to re-run things in the state it was when it generated some results table 2 years ago, but that included system libraries and all sorts
and even keeping results table=>svn revision mappings is non-trivial
 
sbi
@mantler Jenkins here. First hudson :), then something commercial at my last job. A self-hacked thing approaching CI in the job before, and woes only :( before that.
 
@sbi nice to hear! Then I am not alone with jenkins and C++ :)
@awoodland yes, I see.
@awoodland we keep, for example 3rd party libs in a separate repo.
 
sbi
10:08 PM
@mantler No, jenkins isn't bad. It's very easy to setup, and scales well enough. Some features are badly missing, though: cross-platform support (building the same job on different platforms), building each checkin, rather than the latest, binary approximation to build-breaking checkins...
 
so we can "tie" them to our releases.
 
@mantler that's tricky for things in /usr/lib on linux though unless you put all of /usr/lib in there
 
@awoodland that would be kind of bad i guess :)
 
sbi
@awoodland We ran into that, too. We decided to keep the old binaries, including debug builds with symbols, and a virtualized development system for each platform we used.
Anyway, I'm outta here. It's 11pm, I need an hour to commute home, and I need to leave the house at 8am tomorrow morning.
Yawn.
 
@sbi yes, I have read about that issue with each checkin. We have been satisfied with just the latest.
 
10:10 PM
@awoodland Quick question please, let's say I wanted to have +128 in a signed 2's complement representation something whatever, I have to drop a number in the positive set to keep the number of signs (+/-) symmetric?
 
Ok, I'm off aswell! Bye.
 
@LewsTherin in theory you could design a system where you had +128 and -127 as the range, but I'm not sure how you'd adapt normal two's complement systems to work like that sensibly, it's not something I'd considered before :)
 
Maybe that'd probably require a new system for it to work.. you guys must miss me and my idiotic questions xD
 
@awoodland Just treat the sign bit as inverted.
:)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Hey, what does that mean?
 
10:17 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I don't think that's the best way to do it because then you break the additions don't you?
 
@awoodland No.
(-x) + (-y) = -(x + y).
Maybe on the boundaries.
 
Ah, what am I missing here?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes yeah overflow would be weird wouldn't it? I need a pen and paper to figure this one out
(also what would you name it?)
(I got a bit distracted by wikipedia's base -2 and excess-k articles)
 
Hey, it seems to work perfectly fine :)
@LewsTherin In two's complement the most significant bit is the sign.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah
 
10:27 PM
All you have to do to get a range from -127 to +128 instead of -128 to +127 is to interpret the sign bit the opposite way.
So, instead of negative being 1, negative is 0.
You get a negative zero instead of a positive zero, but since you only have one, that's not a problem. Negative zero is still zero.
 
Oh yeah, I see what you mean. It makes sense that should work
However what if you had +128 to -128... in the set of possible values. Wouldn't we need to remove a positive number?
 
That's 257 numbers.
You can't fit that much on 8 bits, so yeah, one of them would have to go.
 
How would we represent 128 though?
It takes the place of the number to be replaced?
 
Well, there are only two numbers that make sense to drop: -128 and 128.
You don't want to drop one in the middle.
That would not be sane.
 
you could drop both zeros
that would be weird though
 
10:33 PM
Why'd that be insane?
 
and awkward for normal arithmetic
 
@LewsTherin You think that you can get arithmetic to work nicely with holes in the middle?
 
in that system -1 + 1 = NaN
 
@RMartinhoFernandes mmn ok
 
(and a boat load of circuitry to handle it as a special case)
 
10:35 PM
mind = blown
 
@awoodland It's not really a special case, because you can't represent it! There are no slots left.
It would be an overflow, perhaps.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes yeah but then you want to raise some kind of hardware exception probably
 
@Maxpm That's what the S is for - "Stop" xD
Is there any books that I can learn all this binary stuff without going mad at the balls?
 
What binary stuff?
 
10:39 PM
Ones.
 
@LewsTherin I don't have one to recommend. I'd suggest getting something like tkgate and implementing it from first principles all with transistors/nand gates
 
And zeros.
 
Xeo
So, back to finding out why my SFML window doesn't show anything.
 
@awoodland Sounds like fun lol
 
@LewsTherin it's a pretty good way of learning it - build an ALU
 
10:42 PM
@awoodland I'm not smart enough ha ha.. an ALU? lol!
 
It's not that hard.
 
you start with the simple things and built it up from there
so start with a half-adder
(which sounds like a lame super villain for batman)
 
What's more lame than an adder? A half-adder.
 
@awoodland lol
Sounds like a fun project either ways
 
I highly recommend it for "number representation" and low level computer knowledge
 
10:47 PM
Ok @RMartinhoFernandes I was thinking about it before deciding whether to ask it. You said +128 -128 is 257 numbers which is right, but i always assumed that to mean we can't represent a number greater than the number of possibilities
 
You certainly can.
You can represent 512 in 8 bits.
All you need is a bias of -256.
 
@awoodland That's why I need it.. I get confused all the time
@RMartinhoFernandes ?
 
That is, if you're willing to, for example, represent only numbers from 257 to 512, you can represent numbers greater than 256 in 8bits.
There are only 256 bit patterns, but you choose what you want them to mean.
 
So it isn't actually the number we represent but the amount of numbers we can represent?
 
10:50 PM
usually, that is 0 to ((2^n) - 1) for unsigned, etc for signed
 
Never thought about it that way :O
 
but you can shift the range arbitrarily
or, for example, define a completely different interpretation, as in floating-point
 
The tricky part is to pick one interpretation where: 1) you can represent enough interesting numbers; 2) you can do meaningful math with them.
 
Why wasn't I thought all this in college? Ha, maybe this was the initiative bit
brb
 
11:07 PM
back
Is it necessary to know how data is represented?
 
not strictly necessary, but it's interesting and enlightening I'd say
 
It'd make us (me) better programmers though, wouldn't it?
 
so long as you don't get trapped in the micro-optimising world yes
I'm of the opinion that knowing how you could implement a complete system from the bottom up (even if it's not as awesome as real modern systems) gives a deeper understanding in general
 
@awoodland I'm afraid I need to asap. I've been looking at assignments I've done to see if I could optimize it or make it run just 1% faster, but I don't know how to make it faster or know if it is faster. It makes me frustrated :O
Btw are you still teaching Java?
 
I'm only doing tutorials at the moment
which are more algorithmic thinking stuff
 
11:16 PM
That's sweet.. I will like to read it. Have you got a link?
@awoodland Even better!
 
not sure how much doesn't require login
 
Damn
Must be a student of your college, I see
 
the one I liked best last term was on gamedesign.jp/flash/nim/nim.html
so the challenge is to figure out the winning strategy (and spot the cases where you can't win without a mistake from your opponent)
it's like noughts and crosses (tic-tac-toe) but more complex
 
Looks very cool, playing it :D
Lol just won!
 
there's an optimal strategy to it
 
11:22 PM
Looks like the trick is always to leave 2 muffins at the table during your turn
It's a shame there isn't algorithms for dummies
Looked everywhere for one
 
if you left two on just one pile it wouldn't work
or one each in 3 piles
it's nim-game on wikipedia
 
Leave 2 muffins each from a separate pile - 3 wins in a row xD
Damn lost
Did you write it?
 
no
just a cute flash applet for showing it off
I got the students to play it with pennies in the tutorial
 
Can I be in your class?
You should've bought them real muffins though :D
 
They could buy them with the pennies!
 
11:28 PM
I did it with crisps in the pub for a bet
 
Does the winner get to keep the pennies?
@awoodland Say you won
 
"I won"
 
@awoodland Lol
 
too much naked gun/police squad
 
11:32 PM
 
Lol related link ha ha @ the ending
 
police squad and sledge hammer are definitely on my list of under-appreciated TV series
 
@awoodland I dunno, not my kind of genre. And looks ancient :(
 
yeah it's 1980s
 
Wow, no chance of me watching that for sure. I can barely stand 90-95
 
11:42 PM
it's better than the 90s
 
I refuse to believe that
Only Doctor Who would be worth watching imo
 
how does one disable Javascript in Chrome?
 
@DeadMG Tools > Options > content settings : Javascript
 

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