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5:00 PM
@Xaade M!!tendo
 
I love WcDonalds
 
@kbok M!!*#&@#@#*garbled text*@$#*&@
 
what?
 
@StackedCrooked Bah Bah Bah.... Bah, BAAAAAA!!!!!!! Sheeple lovin it.
@kbok M!! in ASCII = 42
 
This room is broken.
3
 
5:02 PM
We're all sheeple.
 
Would you like Apple slices instead of fries....
 
Why does conversion from const char * to const unsigned char * require a reinterpret_cast?
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Please pull forward to the next window
 
@Xaade I'm sorry, I still don't get it.
 
5:04 PM
@Xaade It's Lounge < C++>
 
There is also portable assembly language called C--. True story!
 
I found out that the Golden arches used to be a single golden arch..... so if you compress the McDonalds logo throughout space time.... it reads as NM (NOM!!!)
 
How fascinating.
 
Yeah, and in the game FFXI.... NM = Named Monster.
So, Squaresoft is quietly trying to advocate healthier eating.
 
5:08 PM
I finished FFXIII tuesday or wed i dont remember
good game. not spetacular
 
XIII was a dissappointment.
Once again, instanced battles
 
I liked the battle system, honest
 
Going back to all the features that sucked in previous games.
I was ok with Paradigm shift. However, I was totally ticked at the break system.
Or rather... the break system was fun.
I was really disappointed in summons.
WTH is the summon used for....
 
yes, so was I
You basically used only one summon the entire game
 
As of yet, all I've determined was that summons was an emergency heal best used whenever the boss recovered from break.
They hardly did any damage at all.
Then worse yet, they reset everything but the enemies health.
 
5:11 PM
and if the boss entered break while in the summon, when it was finished so was the break
 
So all that work you did shifting between recovery and break-building was lost if you had to summon before you break.
 
that was bs
when i finished the game, i didnt even bother to go back and do missions. i just stashed the game
 
Honestly, if the summon is supposed to deal damage during the last leg of the break, it should have been less accessible and did a ton more damage to 'break'ed monsters.
 
Ok, I get it, it sucked. What I don't get is: WTF are you guys talking about?
 
you should also be able to at least use your party's summon
 
5:13 PM
Ok.... here's how it works. You have a team, and then you have shifts which is a layout for the classes of the team.
 
@MartinhoFernandes final fantasy I think
 
So, you're shifts may be, healer healer healer, fighter mage healer.... etc.
So you can't change a single characters class, but you can change all of them at once to a predetermined layout.
 
don't try to explain the system, its too confusing
 
The monsters have a break gauge. If not in break status, you hardly do any damage. If in break status you do a lot of damage.
Fighter attacks keep break gauge from dropping. Mage attacks increase break gauge.
So you use fighter mage mage to build break. Tank fighter healer to recover. Mage mage mage during break.
Healer Healer Healer if you really want to recover fast....
But there's no point in having more than one tank.... because tanks are practically undefeatable.
So the difficulty wasn't in surviving... because you can survive forever.
The difficulty was in balancing survival with progressing in the fight.
Kinda like, block parry thrust.
It was designed to feel like a real fight.
Because of break.... in FFXIII you can't simply outlevel fights anymore.
 
Ok, I'm out.
 
5:18 PM
It's simple. The game made it to where you had to react and plan, instead of button mash.
The problem is that a lot of the "fun" stuff like summons and such feel like they're in there to be in there, instead of actually do anything.
They didn't want a player to circumvent the difficulty by just calling an uber summon to do the work for them.....
So summons are useless.
I did like the on the edge feeling you get in every fight for the whole fight. Much better than the lax system of FFXII.
 
the second part of XIII ought be out at the beginning of 2012
 
 
1 hour later…
6:31 PM
@hexa I'm saving myself for FFXIII Versus
 
@Xaade MGS: Rising!
@MartinhoFernandes i disagree with that
 
The title read: "It's called learning" (thisisindexed.com/2011/07/its-called-learning)
@hexa Can you elaborate why?
I'm curious.
 
I might have understood the Y axis wrong
 
So... you changed your mind?
 
6:42 PM
lol
"your" there means the guy that is reasoning or the guy that is listening to the guy reasoning?
 
Both axes refer to the same person.
 
"Ability to change one's mind"
 
You can't reason if your ideas are rigid and inflexible.
 
YOU are full of bullshit.
just quoting one of my recently favourite quotes by Linus
;)
 
Nicely done.
 
6:48 PM
i meant no offense, honest. harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/linus
 
It's ok, I know that discussion. I recognized it immediately :)
The italics were a dead giveaway.
 
lol
"We will add support for non-Windows virtual machines running on our Virtual Server, including Linux," - Steve Ballmer
 
Well, that's not exactly an application for Linux. It's more an application for Windows that runs Linux :P
Dammit, Silver Bird is broken.
 
7:06 PM
yawn
 
-2
A: Learning C++: Example of Stack Underflow in C++

ZéychinAn underflow state occurs when there are no items left in the stack. As far as I know, for the runtime stack, this is impossible. If possible, it is at least extremely uncommon. It's more likely that you mean a stack overflow. This occurs when you attempt to push more data to the stack than the ...

How much fail can you pack into a single answer?
 
Bob: How do I get to the bus station?
Guy: I don't know, but I the gas station is two blocks down.
 
You forgot the part where you go two blocks down, and there is no gas station.
 
And the 'directions' are given in another language
 
Bob: I went there and found no gas station.
Guy: You need to take your gas mask off.
 
7:25 PM
I'm eager for the next episode of Advanced STL to come out. He said "July 1"...
 
Does 'Guy' stand for the word 'guy', or the french name here?
 
my Guy was a random guy
 
Guy is also an English name, right?
 
@MartinhoFernandes Is it pronounced differently than the french name?
 
The French name is pronounced /gi:/ and the English name /gai/.
 
7:27 PM
I am waiting for the Effective Concurrency book by Herb. It seems to be forever in progress.
 
guy in french is like: guee? (as in glee)
 
so its like Gui as in short for Guilherme in portuguese
 
Yes.
And in English there's also Guybrush.
 
Treepwood
 
7:29 PM
Threepwood.
 
Fourpwood
 
I assume all of them (well not Guybrush) are related to Wilhelm/Guillaume. So the pronunciations change with the language but it's the same names.
 
Aka Fancy Pants.
 
Is it really with that 'h'?
 
7:30 PM
damn, i've written it wrong all my life
 
It's okay, mispronouncing/misspelling his name is a recurring joke in the series.
 
C++ in Japanese is pronounced as シープルスプルス (shii purusu purusu)
 
@MartinhoFernandes Are you portuguese or a brazilian living in portugal?
 
Portuguese.
 
Portuguese is called the last wild flower among European languages.
 
7:38 PM
What does that mean?
 
Wait, it is?
 
@MartinhoFernandes I think it means that Portuguese is less influenced by other languages.
> Spanish author Miguel de Cervantes once called Portuguese "the sweet language",[5] Lope de Vega referred to it as "sweet",[6] while Brazilian writer Olavo Bilac poetically described it as a última flor do Lácio, inculta e bela (the last flower of Latium, wild and beautiful).
^ Wikipedia
 
Can 'última' be used with a meaning close to the Latin one, making this a geographical pun? :)
 
What is the Latin meaning? Like ultimate?
 
or last?
 
7:42 PM
Yes
So travelling westwards, portuguese would be the ultimate Romance language.
 
portuguese is like C++, overly complicated and full of bloat
 
@hexa are you Portuguese?
 
Brazilian
 
@LucDanton In that sense, yes, it's a correct use.
 
@hexa San Paulo?
 
7:43 PM
@hexa Like C++, I like it.
:)
 
São Paulo, yes
 
Dutch is like Visual Basic.
Not worth mentioning.
 
@MartinhoFernandes Then again a Brazilian wrote that, not so sure about the pun thing :(
 
lol
 
@hexa that's usually a good guess :)
 
7:45 PM
What I don't like about it is the genderness of everything.
 
Which programming language would you compare to Sanskrit?
 
asm?
 
I don't know enough about it to say.
 
I don't know much of it, but it seems to considered as the one language that rules them all.
 
It's old and obscure, very few still know it.
 
7:48 PM
COBOL!
 
:P
 
@StackedCrooked Have you read his waitfree queue implementation?
 
@KerrekSB not yet
 
@StackedCrooked I copied his final implementation and tried to run some tests on my CoreDuo laptop. Unfortunately, anything I can come up with is way slower than a single-threaded push-first pop-second queue.
 
@KerrekSB did you find it good?
@KerrekSB hmm.. interesting
 
7:51 PM
@StackedCrooked I thought the idea is fascinating, and you really really need a synchronized queue in any sort of multithreaded network application. But I wonder if it's efficient, and if it's the best one can get, and if it's better than mutexing.
 
hey
hey
 
Did you compile with optimizations enabled?
 
hey
has anybody studied in UK computer science?
 
Our friend the puppy did/does.
 
hey
sorry?
 
7:54 PM
It's @DeadMG. His avatar is a puppy. He's not around right now.
 
@StackedCrooked Yeah, -O3. I guess I don't know how to write a good test framework to measure the throughput of such a datastructure.
 
8:14 PM
Going home, have a nice weekend everyone
 
hey @Als
 
Als
@TonyTheTiger: Hola precious
Hows the US of A treating you??
@TonyTheTiger: looks like you were just peeking, Anyways hope you are having a good time, tc..
 
8:31 PM
@Als sorry, was doing something else
yes I'm having a good time, US is treating me well :)
what's new in this room?
 
8:56 PM
wow, it's gone real quiet in here... :P
 
I'm concentrating really hard on the food I'm making. Then I intend on concentrating really hard on the food I will be eating.
 
hahah :P enjoy :)
 
I just came in from dinner.
 
@MartinhoFernandes, oh that kinda makes sense :)
 
Ugh, I think I'm suffering from rewrititis.
 
9:10 PM
@MartinhoFernandes huh? That's a disease I ain't never heard of
 
I'm looking at code I wrote two weeks ago, and I have a strong urge to rewrite it from scratch.
 
oh i totally know that feeling :)
I have that a lot, but I resist most of the time, esp if the code actually works
lol
 
That's my problem.
The code works perfectly fine.
 
so why change it?
 
It doesn't feel... right.
 
9:13 PM
hahaha
but it can't possibly be that bad
lol
 
9:29 PM
I think I'll settle for a couple of minor refactorings. I want this to be solid before I start adding asynchronous stuff.
 
yea
do you happen to know a good intro to lock free synch mechanisms? Like how it works etc?
I never really understood it
 
Hmm, nope.
 
I'm not even sure what lock-free means.
Wikipedia says:
> An algorithm is lock-free if it satisfies that when the program threads are run sufficiently long at least one of the threads makes progress (for some sensible definition of progress).
This seems not to exclude algorithms that use locks.
 
hmmm, that's interesting
funny that it's called 'lock-free' when algo's using locks aren't necessarily excluded from it
 
9:38 PM
Maybe I'm not understanding it correctly, but I can't see why that definition would forbid that.
As long as you design the algorithm properly.
 
yea, but there seems to also be 'wait-free' which is more of what I thought lock free would be
wait free ensures that there is always per thread progress, from what I understand
 
10:02 PM
@MartinhoFernandes I think that defines deadlock-free rather than lock-free.
> (for some sensible definition of progress)
So an insensible definition doesn't count? :D
 
@StackedCrooked That's what I thought.
I'm tired, I'll hit the sack now.
 
I'd say deadlock-free would be the absence of deadlocks. How do you account for livelocks if you don't accept that definition of lock-free?
 
Hit it hard!
@LucDanton I'm not smart enough to give a good reply :/
 
Ah well. Perhaps that was what missing then: lock-free is the absence of deadlocks and livelocks.
 
In that case, I don't see how useful are not-lock-free algorithms.
Given that they huh, have deadlocks or livelocks.
 
10:09 PM
Code without exception guarantees can be useful as long as there are no exceptions :)
 
@MartinhoFernandes I you mean what I think you mean, then I think you are reversing an implication wrongly here
lock-less => no deadlocks and no livelocks
does not imply
non-lock-less => has deadlocks or livelocks
 
"An algorithm is lock-free if it satisfies ..." this would make the implication be the other way around: stuff => lock-free.
 
Sometimes a simple 'if' is used in definitions.
 
I think the Wikipedia definition is wrong though.
 
I wouldn't be surprised. I've been suspicious of it since the beginning.
 
10:19 PM
> I use the term lock-free to describe a system which is guaranteed to make for- ward progress within a finite number of execution steps. Rather confusingly, a program which uses no mutual-exclusion locks is not necessarily lock-free by this definition: in fact the term applies to any system of processes which is guaranteed never to experience global deadlock or livelock, irrespective of the progress of individual processes.
 
That's the same as Wikipedia's definition.
 
It is
 
More fleshed out and addressing the confusing naming issue, but the same.
 
We were confusing lock-freedom with lockless I think.
Found here: google.be/…
 
"mutex & locks" vs "atomic" is a software point of view, but not a CS one
It's a bit of an accident that the software people use terms like "lock-free data structures" I suppose. But "wait-free data structures" wouldn't necessarily be more correct in the general cases. The simple use of such data structures is not enough to make guarantees (but it sure helps).
 
10:24 PM
Ok, I think that settles it. And @Luc made me see how the non-lock-free algorithms could be useful. I can sleep in peace now :) Bye.
 
It's a bit of an accident that the software people use terms like "lock-free data structures" I suppose. But "wait-free data structures" wouldn't necessarily be more correct in the general cases. The simple use of such data structures is not enough to make guarantees (but it sure helps).
I need to stop yanking my network cable.
 
10:41 PM
I think the idea here is that without lock-free data structures, you can't write lock-free (or better) algorithm.
 

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