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12:00 PM
Americanise all the things!
 
Americanize all the things!
 
♪ I like to be in America ♪
 
glad I moved back to Europe ten years ago
 
My brother named his kid "Jay". Ugh.
 
What's wrong?
The jays are several species of medium-sized, usually colorful and noisy, passerine birds in the crow family Corvidae. The names jay and magpie are somewhat interchangeable, and the evolutionary relationships are rather complex. For example, the Eurasian Magpie seems more closely related to the Eurasian Jay than to the Oriental Blue and Green Magpies, whereas the Blue Jay is not closely related to either. Systematics and species See classification box for relevant genera links. Traditionally, the Crested Jay (Platylophus galericulatus) is placed here, but apparently this is not corre...
It's a bird.
 
12:05 PM
Lol!
I didn't know that.
 
IMHO, Jay is better than June, July, May, August, April, etc...
hehe, colorful and noisy
 
If Jay gets a sister, they should name her Magpie.
 
I'll tell him that.
 
Now I wonder if different kind of birds can mate?
Ah well, seems that Yahoo Answers provided me with a fairly intelligent answer this time.
 
12:09 PM
Probably, just like different kind of ungulates can too.
 
Carl Linnaeus (Swedish original name Carl Nilsson Linnæus, 23 May was a Swedish botanist, physician, and zoologist, who laid the foundations for the modern scheme of binomial nomenclature. He is known as the father of modern taxonomy, and is also considered one of the fathers of modern ecology. Many of his writings were in Latin, and his name is rendered in Latin as (after 1761 Carolus a Linné). Linnaeus was born in the countryside of Småland, in southern Sweden. Linnaeus received most of his higher education at Uppsala University, and began giving lectures in botany there in 1730. ...
Stuff you find on Wikipedia ...
It's addictive..
 
@StackedCrooked May I suggest some other wiki...?
 
Hi @jalf, It was recommended by another SO user to contact you about a question I posted yesterday on a locked-based STM designed by Nir Shavit. I went to your blog and attempted to read your thesis to see if there was any information I could glean from that to answer my question, but the link didn't work.
 
Haha, I think I know what you're going to link to.
 
12:16 PM
@Xeo Grabbing links directly from Google results pages sucks.
 
@Jason Which one? The link to my thesis?
anyway, will have a look at the question in a sec :)
 
Xeo
I know, but it conceals the target page!
 
When does winter start - like officially?
 
uh
I think it started
 
@jalf Yes, the link to the thesis on the blog didn't work ... I didn't want to bother you if I didn't have to ... I thought maybe I could find the answer to my question in your thesis since your STM targets C++ directly, where-as a lot of other STM designs seem to implicitly require a run-time or garbage collection system
 
12:18 PM
@KianMayne At the Winter solstice.
 
it's December
fuck, I need to buy gifts for my family
 
lol
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes sure
 
12:18 PM
@DeadMG Haha same
@RMartinhoFernandes Surely that's like the middle of winter though
 
@KianMayne December 22nd on the winter solstice
 
@KianMayne No, it's the start, at least in the Northern hemisphere.
In the Southern hemisphere, Winter starts at the Summer solstice.
Freaking Australians.
 
@R. Oops, didn't see you already posted that ... sorry ...
 
Winter starts when average temperature over 3 days is near 0.
If it's not, no winter!
 
lol
 
12:21 PM
So -20 is not winter?
 
Near or below, I guess.
 
Hah, I never get winter here then! :P
 
No winter here then :-)
 
Mediterranean climate FTW.
 
I want no winter. :(
 
12:23 PM
winter LIKE A BAUS
 
You know, just adding "LIKE A BAUS" after some random word doesn't make it funny.
 
I know
 
>Astronomically, the winter solstice, being the day of the year which has fewest hours
>of daylight, ought to be the middle of the season, but seasonal lag means that the
>coldest period normally follows the solstice by a few weeks. In the USA (and
>sometimes in Britain) the season is regarded as beginning at the solstice and ending
>on the following equinox [...] the period between 21 or 22 December and 20 or 21
>March.
I give up.
 
the purpose isn't to make you laugh
 
He's being Dead serious.
 
12:26 PM
You know what, I think that pimpl thing is too trivial for anyone to really care.
 
@KianMayne Markdown 1-0 Kian.
 
bah. i can't downvote chat messages.
lol
 
@jalf Thanks for looking into that ... off to work ... bye :-)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah
 
ok
this is seriously starting to piss me off
I wrote SFINAE to fix my problem, and it didn't work, but if you copy and paste it into a new project to make a SSCCE, it does work
 
Xeo
12:27 PM
0
Q: static_cast between 'unrelated types'

QuoVadisIf I have this class structure: class A { public: int a; void funcA(){a = 0;} }; class B { public: int b; void funcB(){b = 0;} }; class C: public A, public B { public: int c; void funcC(){c = 0;} }; Why can I perform this cast? A* pA = new A; C* pC = static_cast<...

 
Magic!
 
@DeadMG Compile it with SSCCE instead of MSVC then.
 
fixed
 
(Before I get berated at, I know what a SSCCE is. I'm being silly on purpose.)
 
I had some code that looked like template<typename T> class x : public crtp<T> instead of template<typename T> class x : public crtp<x<T>>
so the SFINAE didn't exclude it when it should have done
 
Xeo
12:30 PM
Damn. I'm starting to believe that there is no way to test if a template has been instantiated without instantiating it.
Fuck.
 
Why do you need that?
 
Xeo
9
Q: Is it possible trigger a compiler / linker error if a template has not been instantiated with a certain type?

XeoFollow-up question to [Does casting to a pointer to a template instantiate that template?]. The question is just as the title says, with the rest of the question being constraints and usage examples of the class template, aswell as my tries to achieve the goal. An important constraint: The user...

 
@Xeo didn't mean to bother you, finished "Effective C++" and had some comment that I've already forgotten
 
Xeo
heh
 
I wonder if it's possible to use MPL to construct an LL parser entirely at compile-time
oh well
 
12:42 PM
You mean a parser that runs at compile time?
 
no, I mean, where the whole construction occurs at compile-time
I spotted some irritating holes in my current parser
 
What do you think that crazy gigantic type name you posted here yesterday is?
 
a lexer
 
lol
unless some crazy person invents infinitely recursive types, that approach can only work for some subsections of parsing
 
Xeo
12:44 PM
tail-recursive compilation is needed!
 
I could probably write quite a few parsing constructs in it, I guess
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I will shoot you with my lazer if you keep making fun of me
 
What do you mean "infinitely recursive types"?
 
Xeo
@keithlayne *laser
 
Does a Boost.Variant count?
 
12:46 PM
no
 
@keithlayne Exactly, "laser". You can't americanize that one either because you don't say "ztimulated".
@DeadMG Can I get an example then?
 
I mean, look at the definitions of expression and primary_expression
 
A primary_expression can have expressions in it.
 
@DeadMG If it didn't work, you didn't write it to fix your problem
 
yes, exactly
 
12:48 PM
but that was ages ago
 
you can nest them arbitrarly
 
@DeadMG You can do that with boost.variant.
 
sure, I doubt they achieve it entirely at compile-time though :P
as that would require an infinitely-sized type
 
Er, unless you want your parser to run at compile time, you can certainly have that with a boost.variant.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG They're getting around it with recursive_wrapper and dynamic allocation
 
12:49 PM
well, I could work around it with judicious use of std::function, I guess
 
In my P2P client, I have a "bvalue" type that can be: an int, a string, a vector of bvalues, or a dictionary of strings to bvalues.
 
You're not constructing the AST at compile-time, why would Boost.Variant have to be entirely compile-time?
 
Dictionaries and vectors can nest arbitrarily.
All with boost::variant.
 
because I want to generate the generating function at compile-time
ooooooh, I could use a lambda for that, I guess
or a function object!
 
Xeo
"But I want it too!" - sounds like my cryout for checking whether a template has been instantiated. :(
 
12:53 PM
the main reason is because I wanted proper errors, like "Expected ..." but my current lexer can't do anything like that
 
Xeo
Oh well, there, now it got a bounty :(
 
Cool, now I can post my solution and reap the rep!
I don't have a solution.
 
Xeo
:(
I hope it attracts some answers, I'd really like to know if it was possible. Especially without the user having to do anything else
 
My plan was flawed.
I incepted the idea of the bounty in you yesterday, and waited patiently until you did to post the solution, but forgot to find the solution first.
 
lol
 
1:00 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I feel very ztimulated right now. I don't know what you're talking about.
 
hmmm
should I have a generic "utilities.h" for stuff like make_unique?
 
@keithlayne Ok, maybe you're hopeless.
 
clearly
 
@DeadMG I have mine in make_unique.hpp.
 
clearly you use boozt too much
 
1:01 PM
hmm, fair enough I guess
 
I have this for that.
 
@keithlayne Oh boy, I'm starting to fear I broke you.
 
Ohh, it has docs!
 
1:05 PM
lol, "dropping msvc support". I wonder how many times an open source project does that :)
 
Sorta.
 
Am I correct in guessing the docs are way out of date?
And many are missing.
 
Sorta.
 
What I mean is, "the docs are just like normal docs".
 
I'll write them when there's more in the lib.
But there are Doxygen comments in headers!
 
1:07 PM
It also has docs for things that don't exist!
 
Xeo
It also has non-existent docs for things that exist :)
 
enum was bit useless, and it needs rethinking anyway.
 
Yep, just like normal docs.
In any case, it has infinitely more docs than my utilities lib.
0
Q: Swapping Variables (C++, processor level)

CLASSIFIEDI would like to swap two variables. and i would like to do it through the pipeline using a Read After Write hazard to my advantage. Pipeline: OPERXXXXXX FetchXXXXX DecodeXXXX ExecuteXXX WriteBkXXX STORE X, Y ---------- ---------- ---------- ---------- STORE Y, X STORE X, Y ---------- ----------...

 
hmm
inner types of local types can't have member templates?
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes I once wrote a class templates that constructed a parser (and writer) for an XML format depending on a compile-time list you passed as a template argument. Would that count?
 
1:13 PM
@sbi Seems like not.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Well, it was worth the application...
 
Xeo
@sbi *worth ?
 
sbi
@Xeo Yup.
Amish dating online? Really, what do some people think?
 
Xeo
@sbi Nothing, it seems. lol
 
1:15 PM
Wow, this stupid question has earned me almost 1000 rep.
199
Q: How do I remove a git submodule?

R. Martinho FernandesAnd by the way, is there a reason I can't simply git submodule rm whatever?

 
Xeo
stupid questions are common questions
 
What was the name of that super-awesome unit test framework?
 
Xeo
What kind of super-awesome?
do you mean the one that takes apart your assertions?
 
cpptest? It has "cplusplus" in it. It must be awesome.
 
Nvm, found it. I meant CATCH.
 
1:18 PM
Yes, you did.
 
Xeo
Thought so
ARGH FUCK IT, why is my internet connection so slow again
It works fine for hours, my little brother comes home, and it starts crippling
 
Ha! I knew someone would succumb the urge of turning 199 to 200!
 
@Xeo he's running some p2p crap?
 
Xeo
No, he doesn't even have access to a PC currently
 
He was changing his little brother's diapers yesterday.
 
Xeo
1:19 PM
that's why I'm wondering
 
sbi
@jalf I think he hasn't reached that age yet. (@Xeo?)
 
Xeo
Even my chat messages time-out sometimes -.-
@sbi I got two little brothers. 2yrs and 13yrs
 
Ah.
You should force teach the 13 yo to change the 2 yo's diapers.
 
ok
 
sbi
Maybe he's a robot, and all the metal inside of him wreak havoc with your WLAN at home? :)
 
1:21 PM
I found a solution to the problem
struct primary_expression
: public FSM::interface_mixin<primary_expression> {
    template<typename Iterator> bool operator()(Iterator& begin, Iterator end) const {
        return (FSM::make_equality(Wide::Lexer::TokenType::Identifier)
            || Wide::Lexer::TokenType::OpenBracket >> expression() >> Wide::Lexer::TokenType::CloseBracket)(begin, end);
    }
};
struct expression
: public FSM::interface_mixin<expression> {
    template<typename Iterator> bool operator()(Iterator& begin, Iterator end) const {
 
Xeo
@DeadMG great! found one to my problem too? :P
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes IME it's much easier to do something like this yourself than trying to teach it to a 13yo boy.
 
Ah, you tried!
 
@Xeo I've no idea about most of the things solving your question would require
 
Xeo
:/
 
1:23 PM
@DeadMG I thought you were a C++ genius.
 
sure
and I generally find that it's best to never, ever need that kind of functionality :P
 
user34537
@DeadMG Whats all that text about?
 
@acidzombie24 It creates an LL parser at compile-time
 
user34537
Are you writing a DSL?
 
no, I already have a DSL
that's just cheating and making it recursive
 
sbi
1:25 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I have one almost that age. He's pretty good, though. He picks up two of his younger siblings from the kindergarten, spends some time with them at the playground, then takes them home, serves them dinner, ferries them through the bathroom, reads them a story, and puts them to sleep — all by himself. That's quite a tough job for my mother, but he masters it pretty well.
 
See, told you it'd work.
 
it hasn't worked yet
 
user34537
cool, a DSL for what?
 
I need to fix it so that it can actually make ASTs and report other errors
@acidzombie24 Finite state machines
 
sbi
1:25 PM
@acidzombie24 DSL is for accessing the itnerwebz.
This here should be interesting for all of us. Someone™ scraped 80k+ profiles off SO and, exploiting gravatar, found the email address for 10% of them using simple brute force attack. (And please refrain from discussing about the programming language he used. Thank you for your cooperation.)
 
instead of just "ooh it werkz"
 
user34537
o
 
Xeo
@sbi iterwebs in @DeadMG's case :D
 
sbi
@acidzombie24 Is that the shape of your mouth reading our messages?
Anyway, have fun. I gotta get back coding.
 
user34537
Not today lol
 
1:27 PM
@sbi MD5 is well-known to be broken.
 
user34537
and i did laugh out but i dont know if one can say it was loud
 
user34537
maybe the person next to me heard it
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Read it. He didn't break MD5.
 
that was a very interesting article
 
Ooh, Haskell.
:P
 
1:30 PM
MD5 being fast enough to allow brute forcing large amounts of hashes is well-known, too.
Also, boo hoo, they've got your mail. So what?
 
is MD5 the one that tripcodes use?
 
here's a question
how much do you guys hate semicolons?
 
My email is my name @gmail.com. It has always been. If I cared about that, I wouldn't have picked something that simple for my address.
 
Very much.
 
@DeadMG Loads.
 
Xeo
1:32 PM
Why do you guys hate semicolons?! oO
 
I reckon that, logically, if you were to change it so that all operators which are both prefix and binary were instead postfix
you could get rid of them
 
sbi
I refuse to watch any more Republican debates until they adopt a UFC format.
 
@Xeo They make the compiler writer life's easy, not mine.
 
sbi
:)
 
Just use newline as statement separator.
 
1:33 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I don't actually think they make the compiler writer's life easy.
 
I don't want to write one-liners, anyway.
 
well, I guess actually, they kinda o
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus JavaScript tried that with automatic ; insertion. See what they got out of it
 
Of course they do!
 
the grammar is non-trivially ambiguous without them
 
1:34 PM
@Xeo I mean using it as part of the grammar, not silly hack.
 
Incredibly silly hack.
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Still not really usefull. Take a long typedef in C++ for example. You wouldn't want to have one 160character line in your programm just because you can't go on a newline without having a new statement
Or atleast I wouldn't want that
 
You can't help C++ grammar. This thing needs to be burned and written from scratch.
2
 
@Xeo You can make the grammar such that no separator is needed.
 
nah
C++ has too many operators as it is
if you changed the prefix operators to be postfix, they'd just conflict on the other side instead
I could just cut them and make them member functions
ptr := var.address()
val := ptr.value()
 
Xeo
1:40 PM
ugh
I somehow don't like the looks of that
 
You could ban &var as a statement.
 
or just replace them with non-conflicting tokens?
 
When would you want to take the address of something and lose it?
 
ptr := $var
val := ?ptr
 
But ptr := &val is not a problematic case, is it?
 
1:43 PM
no
 
Oh, you fixed it already. :)
 
the problem is with something like ptr := val * other_var = 5
both interpretations are valid
both semantically and grammatically
 
Xeo
semicolons ♫
 
@DeadMG Well, getting rid of the overloaded symbols is an option.
 
yeah, as I just posted
 
1:45 PM
I don't like ? though.
 
$ looks like Perl or PHP
 
Xeo
try @val instead of &val :D
 
"'at' val" reads nice for the dereference operator.
 
Xeo
no, @ != "at"
it's a shorthand form of "address" :)
 
I'd be happy with val := @ptr;
 
1:46 PM
why the :=? Isn't that a pain to type?
 
@Pubby It's a declaration, not assignment.
 
because func(val := ptr) is a named argument, and func(val = ptr) is assignment
 
your goal should be to avoid all chorded keystrokes...
 
What language are you even talking about?
 
1:47 PM
the one I'm currently inventing
 
WideC?
 
What options do you have for the address operator?
 
well, right now, most of that is lifted right from C++
 
although I cut ?:
 
1:48 PM
addr foo
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Why would you do that?
 
Why insist on punctuation?
 
@Xeo Because I think it's useless.
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes °
 
1:49 PM
@CatPlusPlus I was going to have foo.address()
 
I have to say typing crap like <- and >== is hard to do if you're not used to it...especially in the dark
 
Yeah, let's go full APL.
 
the upshot would be he could write his whole parser in one line
 
C++11 has addressof(foo).
 
Xeo
Also, I'm for ♥ for dereference -> "at the heart of" :>
If you're supporting unicode anyways
 
1:51 PM
lol
my compiler supports Unicode, my keyboard sure don't ^^
 
Xeo
alt+3
 
(~R∊R∘.×R)/R←1↓⍳R
 
Xeo
Or maybe even for member access :D foo♥baz()
 
yeah, and then I go use a Mac and it doesn't work
 
Xeo
Fuck Mac
Easy as that :P
 
1:52 PM
rofl
 
@DeadMG It doesn't work on Macs anyway. You're implementing that with the Windows API, aren't you?
 
I hate shopping.
 
yes
but there stands a slim chance of there being an equivalent Mac API
 
Don't count on it.
 
1:55 PM
lol
anyway, you're right, I only give about a quarter of a fuck about supporting other operating systems
 
What's a quarter of a fuck? A kiss?
 
Xeo
So we established for dereference now?
 
@Xeo Gosh no.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Trailer for porn.
 
I like the "prefix keyworded operator" idea of Cat.
 
Xeo
1:56 PM
Or @♥ -> literally "at the heart of"
 
what, addr foo?
looks kinda like assembly
 
why not just skip all operators and have keywords instead?
x mul y
 
Xeo
feels like haskell
a bit
 
But + and * are from math.
 
1:57 PM
Python got rid of &&, || and !.
 
well
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Yeah, and for what?
 
For no newbie questions as to what x && y means.
 
not sure this is worth it to get rid of semicolons
I'd be losing familiarity
 
1:59 PM
@DeadMG You sound like Bjarne now.
 
Xeo
Why even call your language Wide*C* then anymore :P
 
Why not go all the way C++ compatible then?
 
no, Bjarne fucked a whole bunch of future functionality to make it look like C
 
Why don't you marry semicolons if you like them so much?!
3
 
I'm talking about "write a few semicolons"
 

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