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10:00 PM
@sbi Ok, tell me about the last time you had sex.
 
@DeadMG i think it is up to interpreation whether "non-irrational" == "rational"
 
no, it isn't
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked I'm an old man. I don't have sex.
 
either it's rational, or it isn't
 
@JohannesSchaublitb If they're going to close everything they don't like because they don't have a logical answer, then I give up.
 
10:01 PM
If you could reason with religious people there would be no religious people
 
irrational means actually being against reason
and rational means supported by reason
something can be neither the one nor the other
 
irrational means "not being supported by reason"
 
> Irrationality is cognition, thinking, talking or acting without inclusion of rationality. It is more specifically described as an action or opinion given through inadequate reasoning, emotional distress, or cognitive deficiency.
 
it's one thing to say "I have solid evidence to back 50% of what I say, and I guesstimated the rest, and there is no contradicting evidence", that's a hypothesis
 
well, that wiki quote appears to say you and me are both right
 
10:02 PM
when you say "I have absolutely no evidence for anything I'm saying", that's faith
oh, Wikipedia?
 
weird introduction
 
@StackedCrooked ... I don't get that assumption. Job did a lot of questioning.
So did Moses, Paul, etc.
 
I don't give a flying fuck what Wikipedia defines
either the evidence backs you, or it doesn't, and if it doesn't, then you're being irrational
 
@DeadMG good
i do
 
Jesus questioned the Pharisees, which would be equivalent to questioning established "truths" as you put it.
 
10:03 PM
@Xaade Good point.
 
@DeadMG Faith is in a belief that cannot be backed by evidence. I believe I exist. We all take that on faith.
 
but anyway. any human has faith into people. if you sleep or close your eyes you trust ppl to not murder you
that faith is supported by evidence because evidence shows that you have not been murdered before even though you closed your eyes in front of people
 
Why lock house doors then?
 
@JohannesSchaublitb If I wake up and notice someone near I always start screaming.
 
@Pubby evidence shows that open house are dangerous I guess lol
 
10:05 PM
Many people that say that belief in God cannot co-exist with rationality, have a very closed mind. Ironically they blame people of faith for that.
 
I've scared the shit out of some people.
 
I can't account for every irrational action of a man who claims to believe in God, just like a secularist cannot account for every irrational action of a scientist throwing logic out the window to make up BS to get recognition.
 
i would say that evidence support there being no god
but of course my theory falls and rises with the definition of what "god" is :)
 
If God created man, God must be logical. I would assume that a creator that makes something from nothing would have to understand every stitch of the universe, physics, and such, on a level that man will never achieve. So I can't imagine a God more technically, scientifically, mathematically intelligent than man.
 
i am willing to say that evidence supports that there was a troll god in the past, that then committed suicide.
 
10:09 PM
@JohannesSchaublitb I don't understand how any evidence could support there not being a God.
 
@Xaade because i look around for all my live and god doesn'T say "hi"!?
but that could be because god already died
 
@JohannesSchaublitb I suppose that I never said hi, therefore I don't exist.
 
@JohannesSchaublitb What the hell have you been smoking tonight?
 
but in any case, if by "god" we mean something abstract like the set of natural law then of course my theory is nonsense
lol
 
@JohannesSchaublitb Assume god has a consciousnesses for the sake of our discussion of him, in the future. Please.
 
10:12 PM
let's imagine a world where they already could simulate entire subworlds
one such subworld would be our world. and the programmer that created our world accidentally died and forgot to shut down our virtual machine
 
You mean like the Sims?
 
@JohannesSchaublitb That fails on account that, there is no machine. If a god created everything from nothing, such things wouldn't be able to exist independently.
 
we don't know whether there is a machine or not
sure our world would be created from nothing
he would switch on the virtual machine and it would bootstrap. from nothing
 
That's a good point. Suppose the field AI would progress such that a game of the Sims would be indistuinguishable from the real world. In such a universe the idea of "supernatural" would exist. It would happen when the programmer overrides the natural laws for some reason.
 
@JohannesSchaublitb You see... that's why it's not really worthwhile to discuss speculations on how God operates. I say there's no machine because any machine would be an abstraction inevitably following the same rules of anything else God creates. You say that God can create something that can exist independently. We already disjoint the debate.
 
10:16 PM
to me "God" is not necessarily all-powerful. it is just the creator of this world. for you aparently "God" is the all-powerful guy/girl
 
@StackedCrooked That's one perception of supernatural. I tend to believe that the majority of miracles God performs are indistinct from precognition.
 
so it does not seem to make sense to talk about "god" without refining the word
 
If God has access to the past and future simultaneously because he's not bound by time, there's no distinction between whether he enacted something to occur at a specific time and brought people into that, or whether he enacted something at a certain point in reaction to the sequence of events.
 
but that's all suspicion. we don'T know how it is to be without time
 
I sure hope life isn't Sims, otherwise we're going to end up walled off sooner or later.
 
10:19 PM
some say "ooh god doesnt need to be created because he isn't in time". but that doesn't make sense because noone knows how it is without time
 
damn you @Xeo!
I was just about hit "post"
 
it is just an "ahhhh i have a solution!" kind of answer
 
Xeo
@refp ♥
 
I'm baffled by the irrelevant stuff people care about.
 
Xeo
@refp Do you know how long it took me to accurately format that damn standard quote? :s
 
10:20 PM
Predestination simply doesn't exist as humans are capable of imagining it. Predestination, and enacting everything with a perfect balance in reaction to every possible outcome and human choice such that knowing things happen precognitively, and enacting a will retroactively and proactively are all the same thing. Everything is predestined because that's how God "balanced" the world.
 
@Xeo, what did you think I was doing?
I've actually been thinking about writing a standard-2-SO generator, that'd be sweet.. instead of having to manually fix it all the time
 
i still hope the neutron-faster-than-light thing is a bug in the virtual machine running our world
 
though I think I'm gonna publish standard quote with images from now on, that might be easier
 
perhaps we could use it as an exploit to break out?
 
Xeo
lol
 
10:22 PM
In laymen's terms. Sodom was destroyed by fire from the sky (likely asteroid/meteor). Did God enact the destruction at that point in time, or were the objects already on course and God knew Sodom would be evil, thus predestined to be bombarded. In short, it doesn't matter. There's no distinction to God. He's said so himself.
 
that doesnt make sense
god rested on the seventh day
that means the 6 days before preceeded the seventh day
so god DOES exist in time
QED. HAHA
 
@JohannesSchaublitb That was exemplified. God didn't need to rest, and to God there are no days.
 
Xeo
Do we have a religious discussion in here right now? I didn't follow.
 
Another example. History channel tried to show how the plagues of Egypt could all be a sequence of cause and effect. To me, that doesn't dismiss the miracle, because to God those events were set in motion since before time.
Another laymen simplification. Can you change what happened yesterday? If not, does that mean you have no free-will?
 
I wonder whether we could create a fsm.stackexchange.com
@Xaade AFAIK science doesn'T yet know whether we can change what happened yesterday.
but our will will still be free. our will would be to change what was yesterday, but our will cannot be realized.
 
10:28 PM
oh no
gerilion
 
I still don't quite get how god managed to create day and night several days before the sun
 
I like the Oracle in The Matrix. She said, (paraphrased), "You can't change what's going to happen, because you've already made your decision. What will happen is a reflection of the decision you already made." Another "We can't see past the decisions we don't understand." She was admitting that if she didn't understand a decision made by a human, she couldn't simulate beyond that. As long as she understood all the decisions already in people's minds, she could predict what will happen.
 
@awoodland i read somewhere on the net that god played sun the few days in between
lol
 
would have been helpful to include a margin note somewhere
 
So, to her, free-will wasn't whether people had a choice or not. People's choices were predicated by previous actions. Free will was about choosing to understand the choices we make, and not running from them.
 
10:30 PM
@awoodland definitely. it's a shame he did not include a footnote for clarification purposes
 
@awoodland Big Bang theory proposes photons before sources of light.
 
@xaade are you having us on
2
 
@AlfPSteinbach Go look it up.
 
what odes it mean "having us on"
 
10:32 PM
I have no clue but I'm going to star it anyways
 
@JohannesSchaublitb misleading, but in a lighthearted kind of way
 
I'd say "like pulling our legs", but I suspect that doesn't help much
 
to have (someone) on To deceive (someone) playfully; to pull someone's leg. (1867 —) .
L. P. Hartley 'Of course,' said Dickie, when the boy had gone off with his mancia, whistling, 'he's having us on' (1951).

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/have#ixzz1h7JZob12
 
To me, it's pretty straight forward. God exists without time. Therefore nothing makes sense to us. If you look at reality as if everything is squashed into a single point in space-time, the way God acts makes a whole lot more sense.
 
10:34 PM
oh thanks
LALALA
 
@Xaade u nead 2 d-fine this "God" thing
 
But I suppose you're right. It's impossible for someone to build a rational case for God's actions.
 
@Xaade i would SO buy your book!
 
@Xaade let us start here: is God male or female or what?
 
A God that creates reality, can't know how it works, possibly. And therefore is more stupid than scientists with their string theory.
 
10:36 PM
since the bible talks about him like "the old man" i suspect he has a penis
 
@AlfPSteinbach irrelevant.
 
what use is a penis to a god?
 
@JohannesSchaublitb Really?
 
trouble is, what does God use his gender-specific organs for?
 
yes in the book of Daniel
it calls god "The old guy"
i bet it's this what Einstein thought about!
 
10:37 PM
argh, that was my fav E quote
until know
 
@JohannesSchaublitb That's how people referred to him. People identified God as male because god made male first, and said he made man in his own image.
But, genesis said he made them in his image, male and female.
 
Then He's both male and female!
 
I suspect that God is uniform. Male and Female are limitations of a human, and represent together the wholeness of God.
 
@xaade she may have had a plan there, a little torture. as i recall she cut a rib bone out of Adam, and used that to culture-grow Eve. and possibly also the LOL-snake
 
10:40 PM
Woman comes out of man, therefore the distinction between them on a spiritual level is complementary.
 
What does this have to do with the Higgs boson?
 
is the Higgs boson male or female?
 
@Griwes I think rather it is irrelevant, besides the point that God uses masculine tone to refer to himself. I think that's rather to exemplify the leadership role of males in God's ideal society.
 
but why did he choose jesus human incarnation to be male
 
well actually i think many of the stories in the bible and the churan (speling?) are true
 
10:43 PM
he could have made him an hermaphrodite
 
like jonah in the whale, in one of the rivers in iraq
 
:D
 
I've noted that in most cases I have knowledge of (amongst Christians) women and their relationship with God are incredibly influenced by their husband/father's relationship with God, moreso than a son to a father.
 
why should they not have had submarines, i ask?
 
Meaning that male leadership is biologically implanted into the design of the female.
 
10:44 PM
OMG. Off topic, anyone? LOL
Sleep well, I get an early night today
 
The bible is like a broken type system.
 
@StackedCrooked now you're just looking for starred messages
 
In the beginning was the wording. And the wording was implanted, and was among us. <- sounds like the C++ spec -.-
2
 
@sehe I wasn
't.
 
10:45 PM
Then, care to elaborate/support the claim?
 
@sehe It popped in my mind and I wrote it down.
You want me to prove it?
 
God created C. Man invented C++.
 
@StackedCrooked Woot. Fair enough
 
i am thinking, if you started a cellular automaton like more advanced conway's game of life in random state, and let it go on till it developed some intelligent beings, and they looked back in time in their state machine, how would they perceive "the start"?
 
Not proof. Just an inkling of a clue so that we can see what even made you say a funny thing like that
 
10:47 PM
 
@AlfPSteinbach Denial?
@AlfPSteinbach Btw that would be a deterministic universe. I'm not sure if that is so in our case with quantum mechanics. I don't know enough about it to know how to interpret it all.
 
@StackedCrooked huh? i'm just thinking, they couldn't really pinpoint the "start". maybe if they got advanced enough they would extrapolate back to states before the random start state. and then they could find a state that could not possibly occur.
 
@AlfPSteinbach I think they would need to study the behavior of subatomic particles in order to find out the basic patterns.
@AlfPSteinbach Assuming that it is a pretty simple pattern like Conway's.
 
10:52 PM
Extrapolating back to previous states implies that they already would understand the rules of the game of life.
@AlfPSteinbach They could discover that the pattern is cyclic without a beginning or an end.
@AlfPSteinbach If they really did discover such an impossible state then it could be assumed as proof for a beginning of time. It might be a way for The Sims to find evidence of their virtual-ness.
Anyway I'm not making sense, should probably go to sleep.
 
:)
well just to prevent anything on-topic topic sneaking in
here's a silly generalization of number that i once, a bit sleepy, though was great
given a definition of "i" as "i"^2 = -1 and "i" is not a real number, correspondingly define "j" as "j"^2 = 0 and "j" is not a real number, and "k" as "k"^2 = 1 and "k" is not a real number -- what's wrong with that? :-)
or, why do the rules of C++ allow string s = s; ?
 
Xeo
11:14 PM
I don't get why they don't allow auto l = []{ l(); }; :(
 
maybe it had something to do with constexpr? i'm just guessing. recursion could be hard to combine with constexpr
oh no i'm tired that was just bs
and i don't mean bjarne stroustrup
 
@Xeo because it would summon a velociraptor
 
Xeo
Nono, only gotos do.
 
According to comments under Jon Skeet's answer (about ()() syntax in C#), it could summon it, too.
 
11:50 PM
0
A: Don't close questions where the user has requested that it not be closed

XaadeOileee Oileee Oleioloooooooooooooooooooo.... Please don't downvote this!

 
Hm.. where in the c++11 standard is it said that "this" shouldn't refer to the lambda instance itself?
I can't find it anywhere, or is it just assumed?
since it is stated that a lambda body should be defined as an inline public function I'd assume it be there unless hidden by variables brought in
ah nevermind, found it..
"Names referenced in the lambda-declarator are looked up in the context in which the lambda-expression appears." § 5.1.2/5
oh, now I see that you were talking about lambdas
 
@refp So does this->data refer to the value at the time of the creation, or at the time of lambda evaluation? I should learn lambdas sometime
 
Xeo
@refp It is explicitly said somewhere
 
[edit] nevermind, stupid
 
Xeo
And that answers what?
 

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