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9:00 PM
I vaguely remember somebody claiming that C was a pure function programming language. Simply by reinterpreting the statefulness in terms of functional programming concepts.
 
lol
 
(Unrelated,) I'm thinking that if you wanted to, you could consider functions in C++ to be global variables.
If you want, even of class-type, by counting static locals as "member variables".
And constant.
 
@KerrekSB Functions aren't variables. You can't assign a function.
I think growing a beard would increase my authority on programming by 400%.
@KerrekSB I might agree with the idea that functions can be used as a means to represent "values". For example double pi() { return 3.1415...; }.
 
Well, you can claim C is a functional language. But being a crappy functional language is hardly a good thing.
 
9:07 PM
He's claiming it to be a purely functional language.
Btw does anyone know a good answer to Herb's new question about the Pimpl Idiom?
 
@StackedCrooked Also in terms of names: If you pass a function name into a template argument, it's a "value" (not a "typename" or a "template"). So in some sense the name of a function is of "value" quality.
 
in Town Hall Chat, 3 mins ago, by Xaade
"people abuse flags endlessly" + "parts of flagging automated, to say, chat ban" --> flagging system broken.
in Town Hall Chat, 1 min ago, by Xaade
You're giving them abilities assuming that they will have specialized knowledge, then denying the fact that they need to have specialized knowledge to appropriately use those abilities.
It appears that they can't understand me.
Or refuse to.
 
@StackedCrooked And even if you conceded that, you cannot escape the fact that it's a crappy one.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Of course.
 
Time to do something productive.
 
9:14 PM
However, I do feel that the term "functional" isn't very well-defined.
 
I'll work on my statusline.
 
@CatPlusPlus What you playing?
@StackedCrooked I agree. But I'm pretty sure C is not.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Agreed.
 
It's a "Know it when you see it" thing.
 
Give me an honest game recommendation and I promise that I'll play it for at least a month and tell you my findings.
 
9:16 PM
@StackedCrooked what kind of game?
 
A friend wanted me to explain functional programming today, and I had trouble coming up with sensible stuff.
 
@jalf PC Game.
 
What kind of PC game?
 
@StackedCrooked that's not very specific :p
a new one? Any specific genre?
 
Genre doesn't matter. The only requirement is that you like it. (It must be an honest recommendation.)
 
9:17 PM
Beyond Good & Evil
 
1
A: A few questions about template programming

ronagI don't have access to a C++11 compiler but maybe something like this could work? #include <array> #include <type_traits> #include <boost/mpl/greater.hpp> template <int D, typename T> class Vector { static_assert(D > 0, "Dimension must be greater than 0"); st...

 
Bastion.
 
probably sanest option is to get it on gog.com
 
Does this answer work? (The constructor with D arguments part)
 
9:18 PM
Fallout.
 
@CatPlusPlus which one?
 
Any but Tactics, really.
New Vegas is long and fun.
 
@CatPlusPlus I guess I'll start with @jalf's recommendation. Would you recommend Fallout over Bastion or vice versa?
 
@StackedCrooked good, bg&e is a classic :)
 
BG&E is cool.
 
9:21 PM
So are the first Fallouts, of course
 
Bastion is shorter, and way more linear.
 
Never played it. Looking forward to give it a try.
 
Assassin's Creed can be fun, if you like jumping on rooftops like a madman.
More from RPGs, Mass Effect.
Deus Ex 1, if you have the patience. Haven't played HR yet.
 
@CatPlusPlus I actually bought Mass Effect 2 about 2 years ago but never got really far. Didn't get into it despite the high ratings. Probably should it a fair try. And perhaps play the first one first.
 
I think I liked the story more than gameplay itself, TBH.
 
9:24 PM
I loved both Mass Effects
but yeah, should probably play them in order
 
Especially that you can import characters, and choices from ME1 influence some parts of ME2.
 
I found that the gameplay of ME2 was dumbed down for console-gameplay.
Like the huge cross-hair.
But I only played it for a few hours. So I can't really judge.
 
If you like sandboxes, Mount & Blade.
Or more GTAish, Saints Row.
 
I'm not sure what sandbox means in the context of gaming.
 
In case of M&B, "we dump you in the middle of somewhere, and do whatever you want".
 
9:27 PM
@StackedCrooked It means open field of play. No forced direction. You stumble onto "quests" to solve. Some direction may be given to the player, but the player is not forced to follow it.
 
Like Gran Tourismo?
 
It really can't be explained in few words.
 
Elder Scrolls is the best implementation of sandbox I've come across. It's a sandbox that changes based on your actions, but leaves little to no direction to the player. Whereas most sandboxes have no apparent change when you would expect (you storm a castle, kill everyone, and people are back tomorrow).
 
Call me strange, but I like prefer clear mission objectives.
 
hmm, I might be mixing it up with a different game, but I think the crosshair was affected by difficulty level.
 
9:29 PM
Skyrim is so awesome.
Sandboxes attempt to mimic real life.
 
Should I play Elder Scrolls before Skyrim?
 
Skyrim is Elder Scrolls.
V, to be precise.
 
@StackedCrooked There can be clear mission objectives, within the context of the mission, or even overarching mission. However, you're not forced to do it now.
 
I mean previous release.
 
9:30 PM
@StackedCrooked none of the games have had much to do with the others, afaik, and most of them have been unplayable unless you modded them to hell and back. I wouldn't bother
 
@Xaade Is there a way to 'finish' the game?
 
Well, Oblivion is on -75% sale on Steam right now.
For 5€.
 
Oblivion had the most broken gameplay I've ever seen in a game, and I'm not exaggerating
 
@jalf Has it been improved with patches?
 
no
I'm sure they've improved other things
but the game design was just so flawed it's not even funny
 
9:31 PM
For example, I know I need to go to City X, to talk to a guy that will tell me where Cave Y is that contains magical weapon Z, that is the only weapon that can kill the Big Bad. However, I stopped halfway to City X, because I wanted to check out Town A. In Town A I discovered someone has a problem with Goblins attacking their farm. I go kill goblins instead. A few weeks later, I go to City X, and the story progresses.
 
only RPG ever to reward you for not levelling up
gain too many levels and you basically made the game unplayable for yourself
 
that sounds somewhat counter-intuitive to the design of RPGs
 
It seems I have a lot of catching up to do. I think the only games I've really played in the last 7 years are World of Goo and Dragon Age Origins.
 
@jalf Most of that was the leveling problem. Everything around you leveled optimally, but unless you were pedantic on your leveling schedule, you'd get weaker over time in comparison.
 
Come on! Oblivion had magic paintbrushes.
 
9:33 PM
@DeadMG it was counter-intuitive to sanity
 
@jalf Because the enemies also level-up?
 
There's Morrowind, but I somehow find it too slow.
 
That's gotta count for something.
 
it's a stupid idea to have your enemies level up at the same rate as you
what's the point in levelling up if everything else levels up too?
 
@StackedCrooked because the enemies level up, so they get stronger, but you don't
 
9:33 PM
@jalf Not necessarily true. If you plan on perfectly leveling, you'd be OP steam roller of doom.
 
I'm sure there are mods for that.
 
your skills increase with use, so you automatically get stronger. But levelling up specifically doesn't really make you stronger, it just bumps up the enemies
 
@DeadMG You can expand your set of abilities so that their combined power is greater than the sum of the power of the individual abilities.
 
@CatPlusPlus yeah, there are. But IMO, if you need mods to fix something as fundamental as that, you should stop and ask yourself why you're playing the game at all
 
For mods? :P
 
9:35 PM
@DeadMG at least that's how I did it in Dragon Age.
 
I don't know, I just started Oblivion, and don't really have time to finish.
 
The game basically penalized you for leveling up wrong, and gave no benefit for leveling up right. You could access all skills without ever leveling up, and you could enchant to raise your stats beyond what's needed to steam roll content, all at level 1. The game also penalizes you for not leveling up, because then content is boring because at low level the game has low enemy diversity.
 
Dragon Age was ridiculous
 
Anyway, if you don't like open-ended games, you should probably avoid all the Elder Scrolls games
 
I played through on the first time on the hardest difficulty and it was still a cakewalk
all I had to do was pick magic and mass AoE spells
 
9:35 PM
@jalf If a crappy game becomes an awesome game with a mod, then I see no reason to ditch it simply because the original game sucked. (Hypothetically speaking, I don't know about this particular case.)
 
From something different: Red Faction: Guerilla. BLOWING UP BUILDINGS.
 
I'd never have bought Warcraft 3 if not for mods
the original WC3 and TFT sucked donkey balls
 
Red Faction: Armageddon, if you want something way more linear.
 
they were ridiculous microfests with no strategy
the custom maps were fun as hell, though
 
They always feel to me like it was intended to be a MMO, but you're the only player in it. So you're wandering around a huge world, full of generic dungeons and NPCs who all say the same thing, and a million side quests and everything. But it still feels empty and pointless
 
9:37 PM
Or the original Red Faction, but the destruction engine in the new ones is way better.
Also Magnet Gun.
 
@DeadMG Warcraft III reminds me of boring lan parties at my first job.
 
@StackedCrooked well, it makes me wonder why I'm not playing something that's more like the mod without the base game.
 
You can treat the base game as a runtime platform.
 
because then the mod maker would have had to implement the engine himself, obviously
TCs are new games for those who are too lazy to write their own engines to run on
 
I think Counter Strike started as a mod. Never liked it, but it was quite popular. (Ok, the original game was very good here as well.)
 
9:38 PM
From bit older RPGs, KotOR.
 
absolutely it did
Counter-Strike was the first mod to go retail
 
And now there are mods for Counter-Strike.
 
and until Dota's various spawns do, it'll still be the only one, as far as I know
 
@DeadMG half-life was basically a Quake 1/2 mod
 
@DeadMG Team Fortress was a mod too. TF2 went retail :)
 
9:39 PM
mods are great and fun, but the reality is that the vast majority of games never get anywhere with modding and most mods never get anywhere even in the original game's userbase
that's true, actually
 
GoldSrc hasn't got much Q1 left in it AFAIR.
 
it doesn't count as a mod if you replace more than just a few art assets and a bit of gameplay logic
 
GoldSrc, or Goldsource, is the retronym used internally by Valve Software to refer to the heavily modified Quake engine that powers their science fiction first-person shooter Half-Life (1998). The successor of the GoldSrc engine is the Source engine, which powers games such as Half-Life 2. Origins History of the name The engine had no official name until Valve came to announce its successor: Licensed games * Half-Life (Valve Software, 1998) * Team Fortress Classic (Valve Software, 1999) * Half-Life: Opposing Force (Gearbox Software, 1999) * Counter-Strike (Valve Software, 20...
 
@StackedCrooked GoldSrc is based on Quake engine.
 
:1890545 They do. GoldSrc is based on Quake Engine
 
9:41 PM
@awoodland I shall retreat.
 
it's pretty heavily changed, but still based on
 
I actually never played Half-Life 2, only the first one.
 
And TF was a Quake mod originally. Then Half-Life mod. Then Source mod.
Well, I don't know if you can call TF2 a mod.
 
Then Steam became a TF2 mod.
 
@StackedCrooked Add it to the list, then!
Hats, hats everywhere.
 
9:43 PM
@CatPlusPlus Yeah, but I have to start with Beyond Good & Evil.
Anyone here plays Starcraft II?
 
I somehow don't want to play TF2 after all those changes.
 
@StackedCrooked I do.
 
It was starting to get ridiculous way before Engineer Update.
 
to be honest, I think Valve are fucking stupid
 
And now it's just a metagame for hats.
 
9:44 PM
they could make a truck ton of money just making any old shooter
 
@DeadMG What is your level/rating? Is it low enough for me to catch up from zero?
 
just hire more goddamn devs, you morons, and release more games, and make more money
 
They make a truck ton of money on hats.
 
@StackedCrooked On what ranking system?
 
People are actually buying TF2 items.
 
9:45 PM
@DeadMG The Starcraft II built-in system? (battle.net)
 
@CatPlusPlus and on Steam....
 
ok
 
seriously, I'd be surprised if they earn less than Blizzard
 
Yeah, that, too.
 
so you mean 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, FFA, some random custom map I found fifty pages deep?
there's no way Valve earns as much as Blizzard
 
9:45 PM
@jalf Right, that's where they sell the hats.
 
@jalf Blizzard has many monthly paid subscribers for WoW. I think it's hard to beat that.
 
Blizzard earn about five billion dollars a year, Valve are 1-2 billion estimated
 
@DeadMG they get around 30-40% of everything sold on Steam
And a lot of games are sold on Steam every month
 
And 100% on hats.
 
@jalf What, everything, you mean even for non-Valve games?
 
9:46 PM
yeah, Valve make a lot of money
it might even be multiple billions
 
Not 100%. They forward some % to original authors.
Except on their own items, of course.
 
but it's not as much as Blizzard, which are many, many, many billions
 
@StackedCrooked yes, that's the point. They make 100% on their own games, of course, but they take a cut of third-party games too
otherwise, what would be the point in letting people sell games via their platform?
 
@DeadMG Doesn't battle.net have levelling system. You start as Level 1 and grow your way upwards?
 
@jalf Being excellent to each other!
 
9:47 PM
@StackedCrooked It does. Many, many, many of them.
individual custom maps track their own stats
 
Also Batman: Arkham Asylum is quite fun.
 
and the primary system has several ladders
 
@DeadMG So you don't get a single number but a set of numbers indicating your level on different types of gameplay?
 
if you bother to play those different types of gameplay
most people just stick to a couple or one that they know well
 
where do you get the 5 billion figure from?
 
9:49 PM
that's my memory of Blizzard's profit, or revenues, I forget which, from the last financial report I saw
but I'm pretty damn sure that Valve was estimated at about a billion dollars a year in revenue (or profit)
 
@jalf Oh right, I forgot Steam belongs to Valve.
 
WoW has 10'ish million subscribers. A huge chunk of those aren't proper subscribers, since in Asia they generally use a very different payment model, which is less profitable
 
Hellooo
 
that's true
 
9:50 PM
but 10million subscribers paying $150 a year is 1.5billion
 
so for the sake of argument, let's say it adds up to 8 million "normal" subs. At 15 dollars/month that's "only" around 1.5 billion
plus other games of course
 
well
 
Valve and Blizzard are two companies that adhere to the principle of "gameplay first".
 
plus the fact that WoW expansions sell at retail
at full-game price
 
but anyway, consider how many games are sold on Steam. Consider how much money is spent every goddamn month there
 
9:51 PM
to all those subs
 
take 30% of that, and you have a lot of money
 
Can anyone suggest how to compress Jpeg images?
Using a compression algorithm?
 
and Wings of Liberty was good for many millions of sales
 
JPEG is already compressed.
 
@JoeyMorani You don't need to. JPEG images are already compressed.
 
9:52 PM
@JoeyMorani JPEG is already compressed. You can't compress it any further.
 
I win.
 
Oh.
Lol
 
Activision now expects earnings per share of 85 cents on revenue of $4.25 billion for 2011, which would beat the average estimate by analysts of 79 cents on revenue of $4.11 billion.
 
Sorry, I'm in the wrong room lol
 
@DeadMG yep. But Valve's own games sell ridiculously well too
 
9:52 PM
meant to go in c#
Can you do it in C# ?
 
@JoeyMorani I doubt that any other room can "compress" your JPEGs any better...
 
the problem is that Valve are privately owned, not public
 
@JoeyMorani Same answer.
 
@JoeyMorani One way to "compress" a JPEG is to upload it to a free image hosting service. Then you only need to store the url. :)
 
so they don't put out earnings reports in the same way
 
9:53 PM
yeah, that makes it tricky
 
the last estimation I saw put them at a billion dollars
 
Make a shortcut and distribute that.
 
@DeadMG Activision has other games too. Not all of it is from Blizzard
 
But I'm doing it atm.
 
Blizzard is over half their business
 
9:54 PM
yep, but not 100% ;)
 
that's true
but even cutting it in half, that's still twice (my vague memory of ) Valve's billion
 
This is using compressed jpeg images
 
I think your Valve figure is too low too
 
yeah
it means that they're compressed by storing them as jpeg
 
Any idea when it is from?
 
9:55 PM
not that they took jpegs and then compressed them
 
@JoeyMorani Right, because JPEG images are compressed.
 
this year or last year
 
Eh. The entire purpose of JPEG is compression.
 
since Steam is still growing pretty quickly
 
Just like any non-DIB format.
 
9:55 PM
You can always compress the JPEGs further by increasing the lossy-ness. But you probably don't want that.
 
Yeah. I can change the compression, but I'm just wondering if there's a way to make the images look better
 
Recompressing compressed data gains you nothing.
 
with a smaller size
I'm using a HTML5 canvas
 
Especially that JPEG is a specific compression algorithm, not a generic one, and knows better.
 
@JoeyMorani With the enhance function of course.
 
9:56 PM
the thing is
 
UNCROP.
 
@JoeyMorani No, you can't recover data that was destroyed.
 
yes, Steam has a dominant market share in the digital market
 
and yes, they take a big percent of all sales
but digital market still simply isn't that large in that segment
 
9:56 PM
@JoeyMorani Quality or small size. Pick one.
 
not like Facebook games or something like that
 
There's no in between?
Good quality but small size
 
PNGs are lossless, I think
 
?
So I can compress them?
And get a better picture
 
9:57 PM
PNG is already compressed....
 
No, that means they're usually bigger, but retain quality.
 
@JoeyMorani Yes, in your dreams.
 
You can compress the original images with a different algorithm or different settings, but you can't magic your JPEG artifacts away.
 
you could look into DXT5 if you're desperate
it's used for compressing textures in games to move them to the GPU
 
You know what, I'll let you guys handle this conversation, and go play with my statusline instead.
 
9:58 PM
Yes @r
That. I want to do that.
I have the original images
But I want to compress them better
 
the more you compress them, the more quality you'll lose
 
@JoeyMorani if you have some intelligence then you should intuitively understand that reducing the file size will result in lesser quality and not the other way around.
 
that's how compression works, there's no "magic" here
 
Well, lossless compression doesn't lose quality, but also doesn't shrink the size as much as lossy compression can.
It's really a simple trade-off.
 

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