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Xeo
5:00 PM
2.5? Okay...
 
@sbi Can't I mix and match? :(
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Eurocommuting?
 
Als
ya u stay in Portugal, and work in Berlin, You can you are a bot!
 
@Als Er, robots are not omnipresent. Yet.
 
sbi
@Xeo Maybe that's a bit high for a junior. I really don't know. I haven't been in this situation for more than a decade. And I always considered myself a very good C++ programmer, worth being paid enough.
 
5:02 PM
@sbi Discussing Haskell is way more interesting than discussing Java.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes I don't know. You can earn considerably more in southern Germany than in Berlin, but the rents are also much higher there.
 
Als
Whats with all the Haskell talk in this room lately?
 
It's meta-Haskell-talk now.
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Not that being more interesting than Java would count as a real achievement, though.
 
Als
Go find yourselves another room!
 
5:03 PM
People talking about people talking about Haskell.

Haskell

concatMap = ((.).(.)) concat map
We did.
 
sbi
@Als A meta-Haskell room?
Anyway, good luck, @Xeo, and please report back!
 
Als
@sbi: I dunno anything about this new beast called Haskell, so whatever actually is apt
 
sbi
@Als Haskell is 20+ years old.
 
@sbi No, he's not. He died in 1982.
 
@Als Haskell is entering the mainstream.
 
Als
5:05 PM
err...Ignorance a bliss....new beast for me i should say
 
Xeo
@sbi: I'm just wondering, cause a docent said something around 1.8 iirc, and I said 1.5 on the phone screening :( haa, I need more experience...
 
Als
@FredOverflow: Could you elaborate a bit?
 
Anyone know if there exists a #define I could check to determine whether my code is being compiled using glibc (vs another implementation of the standard library)?
 
sbi
@Xeo Do not take me too serious. As I said, I only had a single experience with applying as a junior programmer, this was in the 90ies, someplace else, a very small company,... I'd trust your lecturer over my assumption any day.
 
@Als Haskell has about 100,000 users IIRC. Used to be much less a couple of years ago.
 
> There's something in the air. (Simon Peyton-Jones about the increased interest in Haskell as of lately)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Thanks, perfect!
 
sbi
@FredOverflow It's called oxygen.
 
/me adds that to my delicious :p
 
Als
5:08 PM
@FredOverflow: I see, I will have a look and get back to ya & bother you further, if it interests me, hope you won't mind
 
@Als The Haskell community is a very friendly one, you will find lots of support.
> You can ask extremely stupid questions and get extremely quick and helpful replies.
 
Als
Haskell community in SO?
 
> "Learning Haskell is a great way of training yourself to think functionally so you are ready to take full advantage of C# 3.0 when it comes out" (blog Apr 2007)
 
@Als No, in the air, silly.
 
@Als Haskell community in general, but yes, the SO Haskell community is also great.
 
Als
5:11 PM
I see, Okay I am going to watch out and see...
Thanks for the heads up
 
I've been wanting to start writing both Scala and Haskell for a while, my schedule doesn't allow for that :(
 
Als
Actually, right now I am a lil worried about getting up to speed on C++11, I wonder when some good books come out.
 
221
Q: How to learn Haskell

anderstornvigFor a few days I've tried to wrap my head around the functional programming paradigm in Haskell. I've done this by reading tutorials and watching screencasts, but nothing really seems to stick. Now, in learning various imperative/OO languages (like C, Java, PHP), excercises have been a good way f...

 
I know a good bit about functional programming, but I wouldn't ever list it on a resume (except maybe as a personal interest)
And Haskell seems particularly elegant
 
Hm, do we have a "How to learn C++" FAQ? Do we need one?
 
5:14 PM
@Als Here's what I did: 1) read the shallow description of the features on Wikipedia; 2) read Bjarne's intro; 3) play around with it; 4) Look up the standard library things in the standard.
@FredOverflow We have the book list.
And the tag wiki has good info as well.
 
Als
@FredOverflow: How to learn C++11 would help IMHO
@RMartinhoFernandes: Thanks, I think I need to get myself up to speed on that.
 
@Als You mean something like "C++11 for veterans"?
 
Als
I meant "How to learn C++11" FAQ?
uhm veterans?
 
People who know C++ already.
 
Als
Yes
 
5:16 PM
not really
 
Als
I guess not only me but lot of C++ programmers veterans or not so veterans are wondering this moment about how to actually get yourself to learn and get up to speed on C++11
 
sbi
@FredOverflow No, we don't, but I'd like to see that. Something we can point all those to who ask extremely silly questions because they believe they can pick up C++ on their way to programming a game in it without reading a book.
Anyway, gotta go. Bye!
 
Als
I don't know if anyone here relates to me, but lot of people at my workplace could relate to it
hmm, the silence indicates no one relates with my feeling on that..perhaps
 
Well, I learned C++03 and C++11 pretty much together.
 
5:20 PM
I don't write enough C++ to relate :(
Opinions wanted: if you were going to include a strlcat() or strlcpy() in your code for use on a Linux system (as glibc does not include these functions), would you rather rip the BSD implementation, or imitate using something like this?
size_t strlcpy(char *d, char const *s, size_t n)
{
    return snprintf(d, n, "%s", s);
}

size_t strlcat(char *d, char const *s, size_t n)
{
    return snprintf(d, n, "%s%s", d, s);
}
 
strlcat takes the cat out for a stroll?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes hahaha.
They overcome some annoyances of strncat and strncpy (depending on who you talk to)
 
5:36 PM
Oh.....so a c++ reference doesn't copy the value of the argument being passed in, but its address..that actually makes sense.. I thought it copied the value
 
Als
Reference and copy are mutually exclusive things!
 
No it isn't..how is it...
You C++ and Java developers are a weird bunch.
 
@LewsTherin Then what would be the difference between using a reference and not using a reference?
 
not using a reference is passing the variable value itself
 
@LewsTherin What do you mean, "you Java developers" >:(
 
5:44 PM
> a c++ reference [...] I thought it copied the value
 
for example
`int f(int &n){} int main(){ int a = 10; f(a); }`
 
@LewsTherin That's what you said about references!
 
@FredOverflow No, I said it doesn't copy the variable value but its address
so in the code I gave it will copy &a instead of 10
 
You said "I thought it copied the value", so you thought that references made no difference. I find that strange.
 
@LucDanton You guys never agree on anything
 
5:46 PM
@LewsTherin You mean on language features?
 
@FredOverflow oh yeah I see what you mean. @LucDanton yep
 
What would be the point of having several languages if they were all the same :) ?
 
@FredOverflow to make my life simple I always imagined C++ references are not pointers ignoring the const binding..but it's more than that
 
You don't have to imagine references are not pointers. Because references really aren't pointers.
 
@LucDanton you guys disagree on some of the similarities of the language. For example if I told a Java programmer pointers instead of references, I would be in hot water...
 
5:49 PM
lol
 
@LewsTherin Ah well, there are only so many jargon words and I don't think software people have a lot of imagination when it comes to naming ideas.
 
@FredOverflow yeah...but underneath
 
I guess that imagination is reserved to making silly acronyms and initialisms up.
 
@LucDanton Yeah, the worst example of that is lvalues and rvalues, because they aren't values, and the characters 'l' and 'r' are completely meaningless.
 
@LucDanton xD those silly acronyms are what distinguishes us from others
@FredOverflow yeah :(
 
5:51 PM
@FredOverflow car and cdr are the stuff that make my nightmares. Why.
 
Bahaha
 
@LucDanton machine instructions
 
When I wrote a LISP parser two semesters ago, the semantics of car / cdr bothered me.
 
@FredOverflow if references aren't really pointers what are they? Please don't say references
 
@FredOverflow If only we had some kind of device or machine that could understand human readable text and translate it to a form more adapted to computers.
 
5:52 PM
@LucDanton then we'd be unemployed?
 
Uhh
 
@LewsTherin You need to distinguish between the conceptual notion of a reference and how they are implemented.
 
@Lews, @LucDanton I would call that a parser. But of course, I also consider code to be human readable text. ;)
 
Hey guys I have a question I hope you can understand my point.
Lets say I have a richTextbox and I have an image object inside, is there a way I can mask this object to be in the structure but not on the screen so that when I move the cursor to its place its not actually there and it passes it ?
 
@LewsTherin This has been discussed to death, let me see if I find a SO answer...
 
5:55 PM
@StackedCrooked the concept is that the reference is not really a pointer or an object of memory location, but an alias to another variable. How it is implemented is another thing..but it uses a pointer
 
@LewsTherin Unless it doesn't use a pointer of course.
 
@FredOverflow I guess pointers and references are the hardest thing to learn..
 
@LewsTherin Really? Harder than SFINAE? :)
 
@LucDanton I find that hard to imagine
 
@LewsTherin From the C++ FAQ: "Even though a reference is often implemented using an address in the underlying assembly language, please do not think of a reference as a funny looking pointer to an object. A reference is the object. It is not a pointer to the object, nor a copy of the object. It is the object."
 
5:56 PM
@LewsTherin int i; int& ref = i; ref = 0;
 
@FredOverflow what is that?
@LucDanton that roughly translates as *ref=0;
 
Substitution failure is not an error (SFINAE) refers to a situation in C++ where an invalid substitution of template parameters is not in itself an error. David Vandevoorde first introduced the acronym SFINAE to describe related programming techniques. Specifically, when creating a candidate set for overload resolution, some (or all) candidates of that set may be the result of substituting deduced template arguments for the template parameters. If an error occurs during substitution, the compiler removes the potential overload from the candidate set instead of stopping with a compilation ...
 
@LewsTherin If you declare a reference, for example: const std::string & name = person.getName(); then you don't know if it will be allocated as a variable on the stack. That's implementation dependent. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)
 
@LewsTherin Why not dispense with the pointer and do int i; i = 0;?
Since using a reference is 'as-if' using the real object, why not just do so?
 
5:58 PM
@LewsTherin So the question: "What are references?" can have different answers.
 
The C++ standard does not seem to say what a reference is, but it describes the semantics of references in various places.
 
@FredOverflow never came across that lol not yet at least
@LucDanton I was looking at function call scenario
 

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