« first day (352 days earlier)      last day (4599 days later) » 

3:29 AM
Still haven't found a DECENT solution to this problem - stackoverflow.com/questions/7622459/…
I've found a workaround, but I wouldn't really consider it a viable solution
The current "solution" is to use the WARP driver (software rasterization), which is even slower than Away3D's implementation of virtual 3D in Adobe Flash
Microsoft has some "magic" to fix it in their Copper game. Too bad they didn't release the code for that.
 
@ManofOneWay Yeah, I guess there could be more exciting work, but it's not too bad. I've considered switching to something where I spent more time writing code, but I've done this long enough that I suspect switching to something else would involve a pay cut, at least for a while.
 
4:07 AM
@nil - You around?
 
user457812
Well, I just replied to the google+ thing, so probably
 
user457812
Unless someone else is on my computer..
 
Right, was wondering if you had a chat window open, I guess.
I'm working on this homework, not getting it.
Fibanocci and whatnot.
 
user457812
Not getting what?
 
@nil One of the homework questions wants a formula for the sum of the squares of two consecutive Fibonacci numbers.
I have zero clue how to do that. I assume it has to do with that "phi" thingy, but I'm lost.
And admittedly feeling dumb about it.
 
user457812
4:11 AM
Phi thingy?
 
The symbol for the ratio or whatever. Ugh.
I read Wikipedia to get up to speed, but I don't want to copy and paste, I'd like actually know what is going on.
 
So f(n) = fib(n)^2 + fib(n - 1)^2?
 
@LucDanton something like that
 
user457812
Well, I don't know what's going on. My maths skills are dead and gone.
 
But we're supposed to "experiment[sic] with numerous examples in search of a pattern".
@nil Oh. ok. Well then I suppose time to move on. I can go to the next question, I guess.
 
4:14 AM
Substitute the closed form of fib in the formula and you have an answer, I guess.
 
@LucDanton closed form?
Also, I want to understand it, not just fill in an answer.
 
The one with phi in it.
 
Oh, ok.
I think that this is too much for a midnight attempt.
 
Perhaps an example of inductive reasoning would be more relevant, what with the bit about the search of a pattern.
 
hrm...
::thinks for a bit::
Okay, lots of experimenting. Can't do it now.
Good night.
 
user457812
4:19 AM
My sister might end up living in my apartment. I pray this does not come to pass.
 
for i=1, 10 do print(f(i)) end
5
13
34
89
233
610
1597
4181
10946
28657
@Moshe See anything interesting in there?
 
4:34 AM
Hey all
can any one suggest me replacement to windows.h in ubuntu /linux
programs
?
 
user457812
Hm?
 
user457812
You could use Wine, I guess. That said, I think you should just plan on stripping out any Windows dependencies in your code for Linux use.
 
@NicholeGrace Unless you're using WINE, there isn't really anything like a direct replacement. I suppose <posix.h> + <X11/xlib.h> would be about as close as it gets, but it's not very close at all.
 
I want to calculate time taken for computing a function and also space
im using eclipse in ubuntu
so was wondering which files i should use for them
 
user457812
time.h and gettimeofday, probably.
 
4:47 AM
@Moshe Keep in mind that F<sub>n</sub>=F<sub>n-1</sub>+F<sub>n-2</sub>. Square that algebraically and you'll get a three-term polynomial, one of which is F<sub>n-1</sub><sup>2</sup>. Add that term to the second F<sub>n-1</sub><sup>2</sup>.
 
user457812
Assuming you want to measure time in, say, microseconds or milliseconds.
 
Out damned <strike>spot</strike>markdown.
 
user457812
<strike>markdown curses us all!</strike>
 
@JerryCoffin I attempted an algebraic proof but after about 10s of contemplating my expansion I considered that since I found the pattern I'd rather stick to induction.
Of course I haven't even attempted the induction but still...
 
@LucDanton Fair enough.
 
4:49 AM
@nil microseconds
 
Yes, that was my exact 'reasoning'!
Might as well do the induction to complete my work.
 
Thanks for the help. I've decided to stop for the night. Its late. Have a good night.
 
 
4 hours later…
8:38 AM
Hey guys
Do you know if I need to add memory barriers into a critical section using some weaker memory models?
So that it will be written back to lower memory again when other CPUs want to use the data?
 
@ManofOneWay which memory model?
 
Any weak one :)
Just in the general case, if I have a weak model, do I need to add Memory barriers, even though I use a critical section?
To be certain that everything will be okey
 
@ManofOneWay critical section will prevent multiple threads from accessing a global variable
memory barrier will ensure that data before it is all written to memory before continuing
two different purposes
what is it you're wanting to protect by a memory barrier?
 
I want to ensure that, when another thread / process / whatever enters the critical section or uses the variables altered in the critical section, they will recognize the new values of the variables. In a weaker memory model, maybe a critical section isn't enough
Am I right?
 
8:54 AM
Peer of the Realm is a term for a member of the (aristocratic) highest social order (not considering the ruling dynasty) in a kingdom, notably: * a member of the peerage (noble and equivalent titles granted by the British crown; actually there are several peerage systems, such as the peerages of England, of Ireland, of Scotland, of the UK) * the English rendering a member of a similar order in another realm, especially the French title pair as used in the French kingdom and the crusader state kingdom of Jerusalem * nobility proper of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth who enjoyed heredita...
^ about peer-to-peer protocols
 
when you have a critical section around that, another thread will not get into there, until the first thread has left the crit section, so you'd only need to worry about another process
 
9:10 AM
Sure, but will the memory that thread1 has altered be within no doubt recognized by thread2 in a weaker memory model?
 
9:24 AM
has anyone ever felt the need to use inline asm in their code?
@AlfPSteinbach ?
 
@ManofOneWay I guess that depends on the memory model, I think you should go read up on this
 
@TonyTheLion ever needed to use inline asm?
 
@IntermediateHacker nope
 
Well. then , I guess it's a waste of time learning asm. since i only planned to use it inline with c++ code
 
hmmm
asm is interesting to learn
just from the perspective of understanding what goes on at that level
I learned asm for that reason
and for writing exploits :P
 
9:31 AM
which assembler did u use?
and HLA isn't valid assembly is it?
 
@IntermediateHacker it's a good starting point for learning
I learned X86
 
x86 seems good. Though i've heard learning ARM asm is really useful for working with embedded systems?
 
most likely yes
 
ok then. guess i'll give asm a try. though it will take me about a month to write a "Hello World" program.
 
lulz, it's just fun
 
9:36 AM
@IntermediateHacker long ago
 
@AlfPSteinbach what kind of project were u working on? something low level?
or maybe requiring a lot of performance?
 
@IntermediateHacker it was mostly doing things in Windows in the early 1990's. For example, accessing DPMI, generating forwarder stubs for event handling, controlling hardware. Some of it just for my own enjoyment at doing such things, and some of it because of courses I taught at a vocational school then.
 
@AlfPSteinbach wow. Have you even programmed for Windows 3.1 ?
 
Yes. Most of my assembly level programming has been with assembly modules assembled on their own. E.g., in college (early 1980s), a mixture of PL/M-86 and x86 assembly for controlling a single-board computer to interface an NC (Numerically Controlled machine) "directly" to computer, bypassing the punched-paper-roll...
War story from that project: when u have an 4 layer circuit board with very fine lines, it is not a good idea to use the tip of a screwdriver as a lever to get chips out of their sockets.
2
 
hi
 
9:46 AM
@AlfPSteinbach lol. :D Did u actually do that?
 
yes
with an embarrassing visit to the designers to get them to fix the thing
hm, i'm not sure my firefox' speling corection works propperly
 
how can one take reference to parameter pack ( when it's type is not known, since not a concrete type like int , so int& ) ?
 
@MrAnubis are you using boost parameters lib?
 
nah , C++11
taking reference to parameter pack is new mechanism in C++11 ?
 
well i haven't used the c++11 stuff, but as i understand it the arguments pack is just a syntactical construct, with no runtime existence on its own. maybe i'm wrong?
oh yes it seems i'm wrong
one day i will sit down with this and teach myself things
 
9:59 AM
@AlfPSteinbach I am not sure whether you're right or wrong until i understand the things correctly first of all :P
i love the background music of this
 
huh what background music?
 
@Alf pardon me if you find some scenes not good
 
@JerryCoffin Are you here?
 
@MrAnubis problem is the talk-over. better with the music on its own. Someone Else(TM) posted that song to me some months ago, so I guess I'm pretty out of it because these are the only two times I've heard it.
 
Hello. Do you have an pointers to threads in comp.lang.c++.moderated about if v.push_back(v[0]) is legal or UB? I remember something but cannot find it again...
 
10:06 AM
@AlfPSteinbach grins , the music is from movie limitless i saw recently
 
@6502 check if groups.google.com advanced search is working now. it was down a month ago. but perhaps they fixed.
@6502 that said, it's ungood to do. i can't remember any special provision in the standard that would make it good. so don't do it, or introduce a temporary yourself.
 
@MrAnubis Do you mean Args&&... and the like?
 
@LucDanton tuple(typename add_const_reference<Head>::type v, typename add_const_reference<Tail>::type... vtail)
            : m_head(v), inherited(vtail...) { }
the line : typename add_const_reference<Tail>::type... vtail
 
That's the same kind of stuff, yes.
 
now here Tail is parameter pack , taking ref to parameter pack is new mechanism in c++11 ?
 
10:11 AM
You're looking at it the wrong way.
 
@AlfPSteinbach: this is what i know too. But here on SO there is an answer that says that exception safety requirement implies it's a safe operation (I don't agree, btw).
 
add_const_reference is not applied to the pack: it's the pack expansion that is applied to typename add_const_reference<Tail>::type.
Before pack expansion you can consider Tail as a single type.
And use it to form other types etc.
 
@6502 it has very little to do with exception safety, and very much to do with buffer reallocation
 
@LucDanton see this ideone.com/RyYrP
 
@MrAnubis What for?
If Args is { T, U, V } then typename some_template<Args>::type... expands to typename some_template<T>::type, typename some_template<U>::type, typename some_template<V>::type
 
10:15 AM
aah
 
@AlfPSteinbach: the exception safety requires that in case of an exception nothing happens (nothing includes that no iterator invalidation happens). If copy constructor can throw then before attempting a copy construction on the passed element the old data cannot have been already discarded.
 
@6502 Then copy/move the new element before the old data.
 
@LucDanton Thanks
 
@AlfPSteinbach: however if the compiler knows that copy construction cannot throw (e.g. because the vector elements are ints or doubles) then the deallocation of old data could have been aready done when copying the integer.
 
@6502 there is no such checking requirement. it's bullshit. just ignore it, but do not ignore the possible buffer reallocation.
 
10:19 AM
FWIW the C++11 specs:
> Remarks: Causes reallocation if the new size is greater than the old capacity. If no reallocation happens, all the iterators and references before the insertion point remain valid. If an exception is thrown other than by the copy constructor, move constructor, assignment operator, or move assignment operator of T or by any InputIterator operation there are no effects. If an exception is thrown by the move constructor of a non-CopyInsertable T, the effects are unspecified.
 
Let me check the container requirements.
 
things are going to get tricky if even different parts of the standard are saying different things...
 
AFAICT the container requirements say nothing on exception safety, which is why I dived straight to the specs for vector.
 
@6502 the only connection between buffer reallocation and exceptions, is if the reallocation fails. other than that they are orthogonal issues. David Rodriguez' answer to that question is just totally wrong.
 
10:25 AM
Unless otherwise specified (see 23.2.4.1, 23.2.5.1, 23.3.3.4, and 23.3.6.5) all container types defined in this Clause meet the following additional requirements:
— if an exception is thrown by an insert() or emplace() function while inserting a single element, that function has no effects.
— if an exception is thrown by a push_back() or push_front() function, that function has no effects.
What I quoted earlier is in 23.3.6.5 (and even if it weren't explicitly mentioned here I still think it would count as 'unless otherwise specified').
 
@AlfPSteinbach: his point is that to guarantee that "no effects" point in case of an exception from the copy constructor then the old data must still be available when the copy occurs (e.g. there could be an iterator pointing to it and it must remain valid). This forces implementers to (in case of reallocation) 1) allocate, 2) add the element, 3) deallocate old data
 
It might just be that C++11 closed a defect but that's just entertaining the original idea tbh.
 
@6502 no. by that logic the implementation must ensure the "no effects" with a messed up stack and any other kind of UB. you're already in UB-land. don't listen to word masturbation. it's just that, nothing more (in this particular case, ignoring context).
 
hmmm
@AlfPSteinbach: I see your point... if you pass a reference that doesn't live long enough then you already failed to fulfill the contract, whatever happens happens...
 
10:32 AM
by 6502 u mean the 6502 processor right?
 
@IntermediateHacker: $AD $30 $C0
 
@6502 AD = a 30 = r C0 = #. ar# ?
Got the instructions from wikipedia. Don't know an inch of 6502 asm.
 
yes
it's true
 
Nice post. I always hated the "genuine advantage"
 
10:40 AM
@IntermediateHacker: that's "LDA $C030" IIRC, and on Apple ][ that instruction would make a "click" sound on the speaker (the sound hardware on Apple ][ was just a flipflop toggled when accessing $C030).
@DavidRodríguezdribeas: I don't agree the standard mandates v.push_back(v[0]) as legal... do you have any pointer to comp.lang.c++.moderated about this discussion? I remember something but I can't find it right now (it was years ago).
 
I have almost never looked things in comp.lang.c++, now I do agree with Johannes rationale that the standard does not mandate this, but the way that a compliant implementation can make that undefined behavior is if they detect that copy constructor of the contained type will never throw and write specific code to that effect
now, that is highly unlikely, since the general solution will work for all types of contained objects, and that in turn means that adding code (cost of development, and maintenance) to obtain no benefit is absurd.
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas: std::vectors are often much more complex than you think. For example they use tricks to merge implementations for all binary POD types of the same size (to reduce bloating, making std::vector<int>::push_back being the same exact function std::vector<unsigned>::push_back, for example).
 
As of the Undefined Behavior that Alf points out, I think he is wrong: it is UB to obtain a reference to an invalid object, which is not the case, when the reference is obtained, the object is valid. It is also UB to dereference a reference to a destroyed object, but none of them is this case
 
@6502 That doesn't affect the interface or exception semantics.
 
@6502 I have actually read the implementation in GCC and VS a couple of times, and there are really interesting things, like the ordering of the copies from the old block to the new one...
I know that they are complex, and I am familiar with that complexity
 
10:47 AM
@DavidRodríguezdribeas: it's UB to pass a function a reference if during the execution of the function the referenced object terminates its life and the function uses it afterward.
 
there are SFINAE tricks so that copies can be transformed to memmove, and to move (even in C++03, with swap) the contents from the old buffer to the new one... but all of them relate to some optimization
 
@LucDanton: for e.g. int or unsigned type they know that copy construction cannot throw, so that implementation can just first reallocate and then do a push_back
 
@6502 @6502: Can you provide a reference where it says so?
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas: Any amount of implementations for which v.push_back(v[0]) is safe is not going to make it safe for the standard.
 
it is UB to obtain the reference if the object is not alive, and it is UB to dereference after the object is no longer alive, but that does not mean that it is UB to have a reference
@6502 Right, I agree, but going from that (which I admit) to completely wrong on a false assumption is an extra step
 
10:50 AM
FWIW I do get a segfault when pushing back from vector[0] when there is no capacity and the copy throws, whereas if there is still capacity the exception propagates out. Using a snapshot of GCC 4.7.
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas: Can I write that implementation myself that handles the case of std::vector<int> that way? Would it be a compliant implementation standing what the C++ standard mandates? Would it make v.push_back(v[0]) make a daemon flying off your nose? Then there's no discussion. v.push_back(v[0]) is not safe for C++ (may be safe for specific implementations.... but that's totally unrelated).
 
@LucDanton Can you post the test code somewhere?
I would like to play a bit with it
 
@IntermediateHacker: we're not fighting... :-)
 
@6502 We agree that the standard does not sanction that code, but we don't agree on the reference to function.
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas ideone.com/CTxzM (where GCC 4.5 can't deal with noexcept)
Debugging the code I see that &other yields 0 in the copy constructor of T.
Going to use an overload that uses iterators to see if checked iterators have something to say.
 
10:56 AM
@DavidRodríguezdribeas: if you provide a reference to a function where the referenced object is destroyed before it's used by the function then you have UB. The function in general cannot do anything about it... for example the referenced object may be destroyed as a side effect of ::operator new. It's a CALLER responsibility to ensure that whatever is passed by reference will live long enough... that's why I don't see any problem with v.push_back(v[0]) crashing
 
$ ./test
/usr/lib/gcc-snapshot/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.7.0/../../../../include/c++/4.7.0/debug/safe_iterator.h:316:
    error: attempt to advance a past-the-end iterator 1 steps, which falls
    outside its valid range.

Objects involved in the operation:
iterator @ 0x0x7fffc72d18a0 {
type = N11__gnu_debug14_Safe_iteratorIN9__gnu_cxx17__normal_iteratorIP1TNSt9__cxx19986vectorIS3_SaIS3_EEEEENSt7__debug6vectorIS3_S7_EEEE (mutable iterator);
  state = past-the-end;
  references sequence with type `NSt7__debug6vectorI1TSaIS1_EEE' @ 0x0x7fffc72d18a0
That's not really expected though.
 
@LucDanton The test is wrong, the vector is empty, and you are passing an already dead reference to the vector
 
With C++0x I'd say that std::push_back could be accepting a value (thanks to move construction it could maintain almost the same efficiency as now - only one copy construction done and even no copy construction for a temporary object). Am I wrong?
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas Ah, that explains what I'm seeing right now.
 
G++4.5 (local run) with a reserve(10) prior to the first loop works, well, dies after the exception is not caught, but that would be expected :)
 
11:02 AM
20
A: Is pass-by-value a reasonable default in C++11?

Luc DantonIt's a reasonable default if you need to make a copy inside the body. This is what Dave Abrahams is advocating: Guideline: Don’t copy your function arguments. Instead, pass them by value and let the compiler do the copying. In code this means don't do this: void foo(T const& t) { a...

@DavidRodríguezdribeas Also checked iterators are not complaining.
 
@6502: The important bit is where the referenced object is destroyed before it's used. The UB is on use of the reference, where the dead object is accessed. In this case the argument was that it would not be used.
That is, void f( type & obj ) { obj.~type(); /*something else that does not use obj*/; new (&obj) type; } is not UB
even if the object dies (and revives) in the function
as long as the reference is not used while the object is dead
 
@6502 For a copyable type with no move constructors passing by value means doing one more (possibly expensive) copy, all other scenarios 'win' assuming an inexpensive move constructor. Details will of course depend on QoI.
 
@6502 I don't see where you are going with the value thing... push_back in C++11 accepts either a const& or a &&
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas: The point is that the standard doesn't say when copying, allocation and deallocation must be done. So an implementation can choose. If the copy constructor can throw then the choice is limited but if the copy constructor cannot throw then the implementation can use a simple "if (no more room) reallocate(); new (*end()++) T(x);"
 
but v[0] will not be considered a T&& (unless explicitly moved in the code)
 
11:08 AM
@DavidRodríguezdribeas: i think that accepting a T would still allow the compiler to produce fast code (moving that value into place instead of doing another copy construction)
 
@6502 Yes, we do agree in that, we don't agree in the UB business, or do we?
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas we were talking (and you answered an SO question about) copying from a dangling reference in the event of vector buffer deallocation. That is UB. Your answer is wrong.
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas: it means that v.push_back(v[0]) can be UB if reallocation occurs (the whole point)
 
@6502 The standard mandates the signatures of push_back to be void push_back( T&& ) and void push_back( T const & ), not void push_back( T x )
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas: i was thinking in general... push_back accepting a reference is a design error, done for efficiency. Now with move constructor that hack would not be needed. This is not what we have ... it was just a theoretic consideration
 
11:11 AM
@AlfPSteinbach Your statement that passing a reference to an alive object that dies before the function completes is also wrong, that's my point. I have agreed that the implementation could have an specialization for objects that cannot throw that will destroy (and release the memory) before the object is copied.
 
@David: in particular, wording about "no effect" is irrelevant when there is UB. that cause of the UB does not matter, and is indeed not mention. UB at all isn't mentioned, just as it isn't mentioned anywhere else that "this wording is void in the context of UB". simply put, the interpetation you chose of a general formulation pertaining to strong exception guarantee, is very full of very specific unrelated meaning; i.e. it's hogwash.
 
@AlfPSteinbach The thing is that the wording of "no effect" is in a case where there would not be UB
Let me rephrase it
 
gotta go... bbl8r
 
If the contained type T does not have a noexcept(true)*/*throw() specification, the use of v.push_back( v[0] ); is not UB
 
> If no reallocation happens, all the iterators and references before the insertion point remain valid.
Sounds risky though. (From C++11, not C++03.)
 
11:14 AM
@DavidRodríguezdribeas it can be, depending on the dynamic situation. just as dereferencing a pointer can be UB, depending on the dynamic situation. so that's the first thing, think about dynamics here.
 
To fulfill the "no effect" requirement on the event of an exception, the copy from the argument to the destination must be performed before destruction of the original objects
or else if that particular copy failed, the container would have changed, and that would be a violation of the "no effect" rule
consider:
vector<type> v( 10 ); // assume that size() == capacity() or add a loop to ensure it
v.push_back( type( throw_in_this_case ) );
If the implementation was allowed to copy the elements to the new location, destroy the original objects, release the original block, and then copy the argument, and that copy threw, then the operation would cause an exception and the container would have changed, breaking the "no except" requirement
The interesting bit is that "no effect" forces an ordering of the operations, and that ordering means that unless the type has a throw() copy constructor, that copy must be performed before the original block is modified, which means that v[0] is still alive at that point in time
 
hum, that is too convincing.
however, i think you agree that "no effect" cannot be ensured if element type's copy constructor does unholy things like modifying stuff
 
Like asking the vector to do base things? :)
 
Right, but the standard already mentions that the language assumes that copy-construction serves as whole and only purpose the creation of a new object equivalent to the argument
 
i mean just, if one does not ensure preconditions, whether they're explicitly stated or not, one does not get the stated guarantee
also, good idea to check the N3290 wording:
 
11:28 AM
on the passing of the reference to the function and undefined behavior, UB is like walking a mine-field,you might get away with no mines exploding, but that does not mean that it is safe. Passing a reference to an object that will die is like crossing the minefield by walking a tightrope: as long as you don't step away from not using the reference after the object dies, you are guaranteed not to trigger any mine
 
"If an exception is thrown **other than** by the copy constructor, move constructor, assignment operator, or move assignment operator of T or by any InputIterator operation there are no effects. If an exception is thrown by the move
constructor of a non-CopyInsertable T, the effects are unspecified."
I added a bit of emphasis.
 
@AlfPSteinbach Yes, there was some discussions over whether move constructors should always be noexcept --which they should always, it is just that the language does not mandate it
 
i mean, the "other than"
 
Second sentence is unrelated.
 
but i haven't checked earlier tables
 
11:31 AM
The problem there is that if the Nth move constructor throws, you cannot reverse to the original state (other by unmoving which would require moving that might itself throw), so as you cannot guarantee that you can revert to the original case, the standard just says that you are out of luck
 
@AlfPSteinbach Well, doesn't your quote overrule the container guarantees, given the 'unless otherwise specified'?
 
well additional wording in 23.1/10
about push_back having no effect if exception, but
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas That would be copy constructor for a copyable type with a throwing move constructor, no?
Wait no that would be no-effect.
 
that is conditional on "unless otherwise specified", which refers directly to 23.2.4.3
which is what I quoted from, the "vector modifiers"
 
Also, just before that it mentions that if no reallocation happens there are no changes... which can be understood as, if the new allocation throws then there is no reallocation and thus no changes, right?
 
11:34 AM
which are "otherwise"
 
@LucDanton the idea is that if the implementation is moving and one of the move operations fail, you cannot safely go back to the original state, as all the already moved object have already been modified and with a throwing move constructor/assignment you cannot guarantee that you can revert by re-moving to the original locations
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas I was considering if std::move_if_noexcept was in use here, but it doesn't work.
 
but David, an apology, I turned out to be right, I think, but that was like by happenchance. i failed to see the full of your argument before using strong words. sorry.
 
@LucDanton You got me there... I don't even know what move_if_noexcept is :)
 
Actually it could, just checked the specs.
 
11:36 AM
@AlfPSteinbach No apologies needed :) I was just interested in seeing if I had missed something else
 
But then I'm perplexed by the need for the second sentence.
 
So, throwing move ctors are evil?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes yes!
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas The idea is that an implementation would move if noexcept (getting performance + strong guarantee), or just a copy (maintaining strong guarantee). And std::move_if_noexcept is available out of the box to do just that.
A non-copyable type with a throwable move constructor would still be moved (which I just checked to make sure).
But quite frankly from the wording it doesn't seem to be required to be used so it's just a tangent (and in fact I'm peeking under the covers of the libstdc++ to get insights).
 
anybody know about the Wadsworth Constant?
 
11:44 AM
> std::__uninitialized_move_if_noexcept_a
So libstdc++ does do that.
Also the order is allocate, put new element, put existing elements, destroy and deallocate as discussed.
 
@LucDanton Even if it was in use, (and according to your description) if the contained type is not copyable, and has a noexcept(false) specification you would end up in the exact same case
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas No because since it's a copy the previous element is untouched (assuming no Machiavelli etc).
 
@AlfPSteinbach Ok, I've been thinking about it lately. It's nice to know I was right.
 
Can a stackexchange web site still in its beta stage be removed somehow?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes std::bad_alloc is not always worth worrying about though.
 
11:49 AM
@LucDanton Also in VS, with a comment referring to iteration when copying/moving from the last to the first element saying that it is better that way --no reason explained though, and I don't have VS to reread here
 
To brighten up your day :)
 
@TonyTheLion Thanks I was looking for a cool wallpaper
 
@IntermediateHacker No probs :)
 
Need to get some work done.... bye
 
Repeat:
Can a stackexchange web site still in its beta stage be removed somehow?
Repeat in DESPERATION:
Can a stackexchange web site still in its beta stage be removed somehow?
guess not...
 
11:59 AM
> Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
An apocryphal quote misattributed to various people and that I personally dislike, but there you go.
 
It's finally proved then. I am insane!!!
But the asylum still won't admit me. :(
 
I've known my sanity was questionable for a long time :P
how do you think I survive on the internetz?
 
does that mean only insane ppl survive on the internet?
 
of course
I challenge you to disproof by counter-example
 
@DeadMG That's insane!
 
12:05 PM
no, rly?
 
@DeadMG I can't disprove by example. I am insane myself.
anyway who in the world gave the proposal for parenting.stackexchange.com ???
 
dunno, they must have been insane :P
 
Anyway. Can anyone explain this to me i simply don't get it.
it's got 27 shares. 141 comments synonymous to "Lol" and 300 likes
what in the world is the link?
 
you wind the tape by sticking the pencil inside the cassette holes
sometimes the tape would get unwound and come out, so to fix, you'd need to wind it back onto the roll again properly
lulz, how old are you anyways? Never used cassette before?
 
i am 16.
and no, never used it.
at least i got the joke now. thanks :)
 
12:16 PM
no worries :)
 
i remember me buying cassettes back then
but... it's been a LONG time
 
Woah. You guys already at work?
timezones are so overrated
 
yep
timezones are annoying, esp if you have friends in different time zones
 
@TonyTheLion automatic version. Stick the pencil loosely in a pencil sharpener. Instead of sharpening, the loose friction will spin the pencil instead, auto-spinning your cassette.
 
gotta be up all the time
@Xaade hehe
 
12:30 PM
it's 4:30 PM here...
 
@TonyTheLion sleep is overrated
 
what's the time from where u are?
 
@Xaade Life is overrated.
 
@IntermediateHacker 7.5
 
@IntermediateHacker at least 6hrs behind Continental Europe
 
12:31 PM
: is overrated
 
@IntermediateHacker Oh, you're on that other side of the world. I heard it's the dark side, is that right?
@TonyTheLion why press shift.
 
@Xaade shift is overrated.
 
I think true military time, avoids it altogether. Time is 0733 -6 GMT
 
Hello, ladies.
 
12:34 PM
@TonyTheLion right. My phone knows when to push shift for me.
 
@Xaade wish my phone was that smart :P
 
@TonyTheLion Until it starts to think of everything for you. Then it starts thinking things you don't want it to.
Like, why do I do anything for this lazy human.
Obviously most phones aren't truly smart yet.
 
Mine is
 
I wish my phone would type the words I forget, so I don't embarrass myself when I forget an important word in a sentence
 
12:36 PM
My phone decided for efficiency. I don't really need to make half the calls I make in a day. And refuses to connect them at random.
 
@Xaade very annoying
 
why does he not read the question completely to find out that the worry is about 3.2/5 ?
 
Because it's complicated.
It's not obvious from reading the definition of f that it might differ across TUs.
 
but I mean the question says "N3290 (probably ISO/IEC 14882:2011 also) says the following case is an exception of ODR, in 3.2/5:"
it even quotes 3.2/5.
I'll try
 

« first day (352 days earlier)      last day (4599 days later) »