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12:00 AM
Something like that, yeah.
cp ~/Downloads/foo_plugin though, not the Downloads folder.
yeah lol
xD I will try that thanks
should I use mv -R to move recursively?
Probably not. What are you trying to do? We can't guess from the commands alone.
copy a folder into the configuration folder
(On an unrelated note there's no mv -R; that wouldn't make much sense.)
12:03 AM
mv is always "recursive" (it isn't recursive, but it doesn't leave stray subfolders orphaned).
cp path/to/folder path/to/configuration -R would do the job.
That would copy folder into configuration, such that there'd be a path/to/configuration/folder after the command.
ok I will try that thanks...
mmn that worked will run eclipse and see if it works
wow you guys know your stuff :) Props
You probably can use a file manager to do this stuff if you want.
e.g. Nautilus on Gnome.
Don't ask me about it.
is that on ubuntu
12:08 AM
Ubuntu uses Gnome, so yes.
29 mins ago, by Lews Therin
I should be a root user
Btw, what did you mean by this?
Yeah
@LucDanton ok I will see if it works maybe
Root beer is a carbonated, sweetened beverage, originally made using the root of a sassafras plant (or the bark of a sassafras tree) as the primary flavor. Root beer, popularized in North America, comes in two forms: alcoholic and soft drink. The historical root beer was analogous to small beer in that the process provided a drink with a very low alcohol content. Although roots are used as the source of many soft drinks in many countries throughout the world (and even alcoholic beverages/beers), the name root beer is rarely used outside North America and the Philippines. Most other countr...
12:09 AM
Unfortunately the most recent version of Ubuntu forces you to use Unity. I dislike Unity with a passion.
it didn't work :(
Remind me again why it didn't install through the GUI?
@StackedCrooked I started to like it actually. In oneiric it is even better.
@RMartinhoFernandes I used the software center lol
@StackedCrooked It doesn't anymore.
12:10 AM
and AFAIK you can still uses GNOME3
@StackedCrooked Ha! I dislike Ubuntu with a passion.
I will uninstall it and try it manually
@LewsTherin To install the plugin?
@fastreload I will probably use Gnome3.
@RMartinhoFernandes Do you fancy another distro?
What I meant was, open Eclipse, fumble through the menus looking for the plugin manager (it is there, of that I'm sure), and install the plugin from there.
12:11 AM
@StackedCrooked Oneiric gets you the choice of logging into Gnome 3 out of the box. I guess you can remove Unity after that.
@LucDanton That's new to me.
@StackedCrooked Well the release was like last week :)
Oneiric Ocelot is not perfect yet, I might be a good choice to wait a month before upgrading.
seen it?
There are simple things not working as expected.
12:12 AM
@LucDanton I thought that the most recent release no longer allowed you to login using the classic desktop.
@StackedCrooked
And speaking of Gnome 3 and Oneiric being not perfect, I think I have performance issues under Gnome Shell that I don't have with Unity. I didn't try very long though. (Plus, AMD.)
that was 11.04
I have to apparently move all files
mmn try that
@fastreload 11.04 still allows me to login with classic desktop
12:13 AM
@StackedCrooked Perhaps that was a beta release?
Also what do you mean by 'classic desktop' anyway?
Mine wasn't really about performance, except GIMP was using excessive memory and I had to kill it, performance was fine. But e.g. I couldn't write a dvd because app reported it was 2.2 only which is not at all. I installed another software and did it.
If you mean Gnome 2 then yes that's gone. You have to stick with a Gnome 2 distro to keep that.
@StackedCrooked I used Red Hat a long time ago, then Arch, and I'm running Gentoo now.
@LucDanton 11.10 allows you to login with classic desktop? (The login view says "classic desktop", meaning the old Nautilus)
1 min ago, by Luc Danton
Also what do you mean by 'classic desktop' anyway?
12:15 AM
@StackedCrooked nautilus is always there, but Gnome 2 is gone.
You get a pick of Gnome (which means Gnome Shell), Ubuntu (which means Unity), and some low-fi variants of either.
Sorry I don't know all the terminologies. I guess Gnome2 is what I want to keep using then.
Google image some 'classic desktop' for us if you want :)
@LewsTherin You could try installing it in the Eclipse installation directory. I personally don't like the idea of dumping stuff on /usr by hand, but it probably won't cause harm.
When you used sudo, how did you do it?
"Ubuntu Classic Desktop"
12:17 AM
Yeah but the login screen entry doesn't help as much as a screenshot of the actual desktop :)
Just like I told you what the current entries are and that doesn't help either.
@RMartinhoFernandes I used sudo user
@StackedCrooked Yes, that's Gnome 2.
@LewsTherin I mean, what command did you run?
12:19 AM
Ubuntu login screen refers to Gnome2 as "Classic Desktop" apparently. I wish it would allow me to keep using Gnome2 in 11.10.
@RMartinhoFernandes sudo lews
That's not how it works.
then it asked me for password
oh
You run $ sudo command
And it runs that command as superuser.
@StackedCrooked For better or for worse Gnome 2 will not continue forward though. AFAIK despite all the bickering Gnome 3 is still where the development is at.
12:20 AM
You'd have to do something like $ sudo cp blah blah blah
sudo su?
ok I will try that
I think that would work too.
That's old school, though.
Good times.
@LucDanton I'll switch to Gnome 3 eventually.
Yes I am root now
but copy fails
Unity needs some customization options badly so that I can castrate its ugliness away.
12:21 AM
What did you run?
Oh in fact it did copy but the it copied the directory itself
That wouldn't work I doubt it
Do you have eclipse/plugins/jess-something?
hold on let me check
@StackedCrooked I heard it sucks. But it came from Linus, so it's not like it's meaningful.
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah but the thing is there is like plugin plugin1
12:25 AM
I don't understand.
eclipse/plugin eclipse/plugin1 eclipse/plugin2
Ugh. I have no idea how that works.
Oh configuration folder isn't the top directory though
@RMartinhoFernandes Looking at it for 5 minutes tops, it looks like it's trying to break away from the 'desktop - menu bar - windows' view of things. The kind of radical change that will always upset a large part of the crowd.
But, but, that's all I need!
Windows and a bar!
(And a terminal.)
12:28 AM
The view of things is different, that doesn't mean you can't achieve what you 'need'.
What are they trying out? Windows and a dock?
Wait, let me start up my machine that I give you a brief description.
You never saw it?
Also keep in mind that it's supposed to be customizable and I will be describing the stock settings.
@RMartinhoFernandes I did, but I didn't use it much so it's hard to remember all the details.
Of course, removing customization would lose them a lot more users.
(I could also google it, but...)
12:30 AM
Just noticed that I get a pick of Gnome and Gnome Classic at startup. I guess Gnome Classic is without Gnome Shell.
Alright, so by default you do have a desktop 'in the background'.
That's a bit hard to remove :)
I wouldn't be surprised you can pick 'Activities' as the default.
Does your favorite TV show contain references like this?
I have serious performance issues with Gnome Shell. Not sure what's up with that.
12:34 AM
At a glance I fail to see the big difference.
@StackedCrooked I watch very little TV.
Check the 'Activies' tab-whatever.
@RMartinhoFernandes Well, I don't even have a TV. But I watch stuff on my PC :D
Looks like a fancy "Start Menu".
Very similar to KDE's default menu, if I might add.
damn how do you undo stuff using the terminal?
sudo rm -rf /
12:37 AM
As a rule any command is final.
You take the opposite steps, if possible.
So sometimes you may reverse the effects (i.e. remove a file/folder you just created) but not 'undo' it.
mmn that didn't work
@StackedCrooked Newer versions won't let you do that.
@LewsTherin Don't do that.
12:38 AM
Meh
Recent rms don't just willy-nilly kill the root directory.
@LucDanton It does "undo".
is there a merge command ugh
damn why isn't it working
@LewsTherin I didn't mean to mess your PC up. I kind of expected you to realize the joke I was making.
If all you need to is a copy, you can just fire up a file manager as super user and work from the GUI.
I don't use Gnome, so I can't tell you how you do that.
12:40 AM
I'm trying to understand what Gnome Shell is providing instead of straight up workspaces but I'm confounded.
what is it again nautilus gnome
Wait, I wouldn't know you if you were using KDE, either.
Haha it's neat (once it works).
dudes why didn't you tell me about this before?
@StackedCrooked Nowadays you have to do $ sudo rm -rf --no-preserve-root /
12:41 AM
ugh lol
@LewsTherin Tell you what?
Who told you something?
@Luc It looks a lot like KDE4.
this nautilus stuff
I guess that's why Linus jumped ship (he switched to Gnome because of KDE4).
@RMartinhoFernandes He did?
12:43 AM
36 mins ago, by Luc Danton
You probably can use a file manager to do this stuff if you want.
@LewsTherin But we did tell you.
36 mins ago, by Luc Danton
e.g. Nautilus on Gnome.
@StackedCrooked Yes. I think he uses Xfeces now.
Ah ;)
let's see if it works though!
1
Q: Software control program

RichardI'm a college student majoring in computer engineering. I'm doing a c++ project in my comp sci class with 3 other people. Instead of zipping up our code and sending it to each other, what's the best software I can use for version control. I live on campus so setting up a server might be a problem...

I like Martin's comment on the question.
12:45 AM
Apparently Gnome Shell support for multi-monitor is terrible and that's not fixable at this time.
@RMartinhoFernandes Ctrl-F martin
Sorry, he now goes by Loki Astari.
He keeps changing screen names.
I do recognise the avatar.
Hey guys, what would be the best way to read a file and know when the end of line occurs? Because thing "file >> type" format just runs through it regardless of end of line
@StackedCrooked Gnome Classic (no Gnome Shell) looks a lot like Gnome 2. It's borked on my multimonitor setup though.
12:48 AM
@oorosco std::getline?
@LucDanton Good to know. I'll give it a try.
@oorosco if(file >> type) { /* ok */ } else { /* not ok -- perhaps end of file? */ } or the like
@LucDanton "end of line ".
I misread that.
Damn you Markdown.
12:50 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes So that returns the "line" but what checks to see if there's another line?
@oorosco if(std::getline(file, line)) { /* ok */ } else { /* not ok -- perhaps no more lines? */ }
while(std::getline(file, line)) { /* do stuff */ }
I'm suddenly relevant!
You copy pasted your previous message and sneaked in my suggestion!
@LucDanton :S
@RMartinhoFernandes lol
12:51 AM
the std::getline returns what type? Is it a stream which you can iterate through "returned_line>> type"
@RMartinhoFernandes Not at all. I'm simply a better person for having written that message faster than you.
on the website it says returns "*this"
<,<
@oorosco It returns a istream&.
You're looking at the getline member of some stream, not the freestanding std::getline.
It writes into the second parameter, which is a string&.
At least cplusplus.com is complete.
12:54 AM
mmn no haskell for ubuntu
But cppreference is a wiki, so I could stop bitching and help complete it.
@LewsTherin What do you mean no Haskell for Ubuntu?
I'm sure there is such a thing.
does the getline have a token that tracks what line number you're on?
maybe winhugs
Hugs blows. (Is Hugs still alive?)
GHC rules.
so i have to manually install it?
12:55 AM
@oorosco No, but you can easily keep track of that yourself.
oh i see
@LewsTherin You install the haskell-platform package.
@RMartinhoFernandes im gonna regret this lol
Also it seems that std::getline(x, y) doesn't exist, rather it wants me to do
myfile.getline(char * , std::streamsize)
@RMartinhoFernandes Thanks for that tip.
12:57 AM
@LewsTherin Why? I thought installing stuff through the Ubuntu package manager was easy.
Don't tell me I'm having an easier time installing stuff in a source-based distro.
@LucDanton What did you install?
GHC IIRC.
@oorosco You need to #include <string>.
I don't know how to install using the terminal
(You would need it for the std::string variable anyways).
I just downloaded the .tar.gz folder
12:58 AM
@LewsTherin Ubuntu has a graphical package manager.
Of that I'm sure.
I've seen my colleagues using it.
You mean the software center?
@RMartinhoFernandes So i pass it the file and it stores the line into a string?
@LucDanton Ah, that doesn't bring Cabal and such (not that I use it, but...)
@oorosco Yes.
@LewsTherin I can find it there.
Although typing just 'haskell' doesn't seem to bring up the package, apparently you need the exact name 'haskell-platform' in the search bar. That's silly.
Oh wait, I did use cabal the other day.
It's neat.
1:01 AM
It appears to be hidden in 'show 941 other technical items'. Figures.
Ha, I do have an easier time with a source-based distro :P (minus the compilation times, that is)
@RMartinhoFernandes How do you turn a string into a ifstream so that I can better grab elements from it?
xD works now! nice
@RMartinhoFernandes I doubt that.
@oorosco std::istringstream ss(line);
1:03 AM
okay thanks man, will try this out :) @RMartinhoFernandes
$ cabal install pointfree && cabal install pointful
Super cool. (Probably needs sudos.)
Let me switch back to unity that I actually install this stuff.
Wouldn't running cabal as user make a user-only installation? Or does that need options?
I don't remember.
^Where to get such 3D display for home use?
Is that relevant?
1:10 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes THank you so much, it seems to be working after a quick test :D
@LucDanton Thank you too :)
You're welcome.
@LucDanton Yeah, seems like cabal does local installs by default.
goodnight or morning
Do you guys recommend using vector.at(x) over vector[x]
@RMartinhoFernandes
@LucDanton
Usually it's iterators for me.
I've found one use for at.
@LucDanton so at is just extra work?
1:22 AM
@oorosco it depends on the folks who will maintain the code. if you are student learning c++, use 'at', since it will help you find indexing errors fast. if you are experienced, however, then you know how to use proper checked versions of standard lib, and you know how to prevent indexing errors, so then [] is more clear and also more efficient.
It's not that, it's just not that common to index into a vector with an index you can't statically prove is correct. Or desirable.
@AlfPSteinbach How does at help you catch indexing errors?
@oorosco it doesn't help me so much. but it does help a novice. because it is guaranteed to perform a range check and throw a standard exception if the index is out of bounds.
@AlfPSteinbach I was proficient enough with gdb that I preferred segfaults and the like to exceptions by the time I learned C++. YMMV.
I see. Okay that's helpful info.
1:24 AM
'at' is probably the most Java-like thing in all of C++, I think.
in the sense that it converts a static logic error (which should have asserted) into a runtime failure
2:20 AM
someone over at facebook encouraged me to write about unicode in ms-windows c++ programming. I think the linked document is about 1/3 or 1/4 finished. But it occurred to me that I could get early feedback here! Yours!
please do comment
even if comment is like "hey that's meaningless" or "i don't understand" or "chapter & verse of relevant standard, please" or whatever
I'm having a look :)
Meanwhile, can anyone tell me if Boost.Fusion works ok with variadic templates in GCC? What with that "can't expand templates into fixed parameter lists" bug.
@RMartinhoFernandes That problem can usually be worked around. Alternatively, that problem has recently been fixed.
More to the point: no, Boost.Fusion doesn't use variadic templates so the bug will appear.
:(
How do you work around it?
template<template<typename...> class Template, typename... A> struct workaround { typedef typename Template<A...>::type type; }; is a possibility.
e.g. if you can't use typename boost::fusion::result_of::whatever<A...>::type you can use typename workaround<boost::fusion::result_of::whatever, A...>::type
When it's not using a metafunction it's a bit more painful as you have to use variadic templates and/or specializations.
Ugh. Alias templates would provide some relief.
2:30 AM
(If you have code you need working right now I can take a look to be more specific.)
I just discovered that clang is being dumb on linux and has faulty logic for finding crti.o and friends.
And it can't find it on my ssytem.
Clang 3.0 is missing two features to compile my code.
Initializer lists, and something else I can't remember.
Now that you mention it, I'm going out of my way to get libcxx working which would mean in turn clang would work in C++0x mode. But since I use initializer lists...
Short version is: that vim indexer plugin thing is too painful to use.
@AlfPSteinbach ah, so that's why you wanted to know when ANSI Western was introduced!
@RMartinhoFernandes What do I do with those packages once installed anyway?
2:42 AM
Which ones? pointfree and pointful?
They're command-line tools that convert between the two styles.
$ pointful "((.).(.)) concat map"
(\ c f -> concat (map c f))
Oh hey I only run cabal update, no wonder I can't find them.
Ain't that cool?
@AlfPSteinbach do you know if VC11 will support the new char types?
Do I have to go out of my way to put ~/.cabal/bin in my path or did I mess up the install?
@RMartinhoFernandes vc 10 already supports the types. it doesn't support the literals. i do not know whether it supports the utf-8 conversions or not.
@LucDanton Dunno, I haven't tried them on Linux yet. I'm running Windows until I get a decent router. It doesn't like Windows much, but it likes Linux even less.
You cannot do '\u0030' instead of '0'?
2:47 AM
No problem, found some nice documentation. Also apparently installing haskell-platform put stuff into ~/.cabal and by default cabal do local installs. However ~/.cabal was owned by root, go figure.
Apparently the stuff is not put into the path by default. Not entirely unreasonable.
@Alf I'm not sure if this is an issue on my side or a problem with the document. Just letting you know.
@RMartinhoFernandes Can't chain the two utilities together, what a shame.
You need to use xargs.
I wouldn't expect perfect roundtrips.
On the contrary, I expect repeated application to blow everything out of proportion.
So you want to try it too, right?
No xargs here :(
2:53 AM
$ pointful '(.)' | xargs pointful
 Parse error at "->" (column 9)
Meh, works for other inputs.
Oh, I thought you were talking of pointful -> pointfree, not pointful -> pointful.
Same parsing problem, there are outer parentheses that apparently confuse the utilities.
I think it may be the lack of quotes.
2:55 AM
Oh, you're right.
$ pointful '(.)' | xargs -d\' pointfree to quote.
Oh, actually there's a xargs here. Maybe from MinGW. But it's a weird version of xargs. It doesn't seem to support every flag.
3:13 AM
@Alf I don't know much about the subject matter so I can't comment on the correctness, but it looks like a good introduction to me.
regarding correctness i'm most concerned about the claim of only dealing with utf-8 in modern *nix. my experience with *nix is very old, latest from middle 1990's when i got *nix workstation in my office. i played around with it, it had lots of character encoding issues (and as i recall, there was no standardization yet on utf-8)
Let me see if I can help with that.
it's on the first page
Btw @Luc, you use vim for C++ programming, right? Do you happen to have a syntax file for C++11 that doesn't go insane with lambdas?
@RMartinhoFernandes Nope. Although I think the problem isn't lambdas, it's curly braces for anything other than blocks, which I tend to use a lot.
Oh, it can deal with aggregate syntax in 'obvious' spots though.
3:21 AM
But f({1,2,3}) makes it freak out, I think.
@AlfPSteinbach To the best of my knowledge (which isn't much, as I tend to keep system-specific stuff at arms length), the encoding of nix-like systems are tied to the locale. Practically everyone switched to utf-8 locales but you can switch that at will. Did that help?
And let me try to switch to a non-unicode locale to substantiate my claims.
oh thanks that helped. i think i'll handle it by adding some weasel words. like "typically"... :-)
lol
Oh good news. Variadic template support for Boost.Fusion was implemented as part of GSOC 2009.
But it wasn't incorporated yet. No idea why.
@RMartinhoFernandes thanks. it's an issue with google docs formatting of word document. i'm downloading open office to make better formatted pdf.
3:36 AM
I can confirm that what I said is correct.
I installed a Western locale (en_US.iso88591), switch my terminal to that as input, set the locale to Western, did cat ééééé >stuff. Then back to UTF-8 (both terminal and locale).
@LucDanton thanks
$ cat stuff
����
$ cat stuff.utf8
ééééé
$ hexdump -C stuff
00000000  e9 e9 e9 e9 e9 0a                                 |......|
00000006
$ hexdump -C stuff.utf8
00000000  c3 a9 c3 a9 c3 a9 c3 a9  c3 a9 0a                 |...........|
0000000b
Also man pages are borked in Latin-1, to give you an idea of how practical it is to switch to non-utf8. Still, I hear there are localized nixes that stick to non-Unicode.
shivers
Can you go here and confirm that this search order is useless: stackoverflow.com/search?tab=votes&q=%5bc%2b%2b%5d%20vector
It puts questions that don't have the search terms at all first.
Ordering by votes is always useless when the tag is too 'big'.
But ordering questions that have the word "X" on them would be useful.
3:41 AM
Compare with search for [c++][vector].
@RMartinhoFernandes A good search algorithm/engine is useful, yes.
lol
It would help a lot when you're looking for a good dupe.
@Alf I otherwise didn't read much of your document (can't say I'm really into system-specific programming, much less Windows). Except for that last page where more fails, whoah.
Yeah, that's awesome.
I was really impressed when I learned how localization works on Posix. For once there's something that doesn't seem to be burdened by backward compatibility.
I had to run it to make sure, because it's a bit hard to believe.
3:48 AM
The price to pay being a 'fat' libc IIRC, which shouldn't matter.
3:59 AM
So that parameter pack expansion bug is fixed on the current GCC trunk?
Yes.
I removed all my workarounds.
Hmm. Building GCC, here I come :(

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