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10:03 PM
clearly a very spontaneous community :D
 
ah, you know C++ users: always wishing/pretending they are using a dynamic language...
 
lol. should we add a link to the room in the tag wiki?
 
great idea
 
:D
 
The room should probably be renamed so it starts with C++ as from the main page, you cant see it
 
10:05 PM
Lounge++: N.B. Memorial Lounge?
 
@thecoshman: eventually the N.B. M. part will change, I imagine; until then, "C++" is the first word in the description
 
I mean the ++ pretty strongly indicates C++
 
:45204 works for me
 
:45204 "lounge" twice?
 
Keeping you on your toes.
 
10:06 PM
though we may disappoint some one that non of us know the how to program in Lounge++ ( the forth coming language that I have to write)
:45208 twice as good as any other :P
 
heh
 
and the post increment makes it even better
 
anyone find any of these supposed easter eggs in chat?
 
nope; where's the 'supposed' bit come from?
(link me?)
 
:45219 that's the supposed bit
 
10:10 PM
Right above the "How do I format my messages?" section in the faq. (Last sentence of previous section.)
 
completely skipped over that part when I read it
 
Me too, this is my second time reading it. Wonder what they could be...
 
might be there just to prompt exploration of features
 
got to say, I am really impressed by just how well polished this chat feature is
 
/eastereggs <eastereggs> for(easteregg in eastereggs){} select * from eastereggs
 
10:13 PM
to be honest, I've skipped over a lot of chat stuff, because I doubt I'll like using it for long if I can't get some external interface to it (there's two projects, XMPP and IRC, looking at bridging the 'native protocol' it uses)
but it's the people that make the discussion worthwhile, and you guys don't seem to stick on IRC long; if you can't make them join you... ;)
 
lol. IRC is so old school. :P
 
but the more ways the SAME chat can be accessed, the more people will have a way they WANT to chat and thus will chat
 
:45253 it's not that I'm dedicated to irc, but that I'm familiar with a client to easily handle ~40 channels and that people I know are on it
before bitlbee, I used various programs for family/friends/coworkers on those networks
 
@Roger: Gotcha. 40 channels? D:
I'm not sure what to add in the tag wiki for the link to chat, btw.
 
any particular reason?
promoting SO's chat seems natural
 
10:17 PM
Someone should make it better.
Hm? I mean I added it, but just to get it in there. It should say something like "Join us in chat, where we discuss C++, this, and that. Bring your sense of humor." or something
 
I've edited a bit, but didn't want to spend so much time as I don't think people read it much
oh, "what to add" not "that I should add"
 
yeah.
 
how's that? pretty much said what you just did, but moved it up
 
Ah, that's good. I wasn't sure where to put it.
 
my mama always said don't have lists/headings with just one item
 
10:23 PM
your mamas a smart gal
 
I briefly thought about mentioning both efnet#c++ and freenode##c++,##iso-c++, but not sure
definitely about c++, but the SO connection is weak to non-existent
 
WOH!!! I just found out just HOW awesome MSDNAA is! would cost $11K to get VS 2010 ultimate! That's insane
 
lol. Yeah.
 
MSDNAA is indeed very helpful.
 
yup, get you locked-in while you're young
 
10:25 PM
@RogerPate Yeah
(to linking to irc)
 
Its a crafty plane they have. but companies tend to decide what you will work with, and decide how much stupid money they have spare
 
adding a drop-down feed for [c++] — I suspect it'll be too noisy, but it's worth trying
(any admin can remove it)
 
:45347 Seriously. I found out yesterday that to upgrade my copy of Intel C++ it's like $600, compared to the $100 student license I had <sadface>
Not that they really have any new features in the latest version...
 
@RogerPate Dropdown feed?
 
I don't like it! its all big and in the way
ooh... yer dismis L(
 
10:29 PM
yeah, good tools are expensive
or can be, anyways
 
free tools are better :D
 
the biggest problem with icc, for me, is worse code on non-intel chips
 
icc?
 
I do like Qt for my hobby projects
 
i.e. it doesn't even try to optimize, merely works
:45421 intel c/c++ compiler
 
10:30 PM
I only got it because it was the first compiler to support lambdas and I really wanted lambdas.
 
ah
lambdas just sound tasty to me
 
But it's pretty slick. It's nice to have an EDG-based compiler with great Visual Studio integration (well, nice for those of us that use Visual Studio 28 hours per day).
 
This is ill-formed right?: decltype([](){});
 
:45429 well, you can play with it under the non-commercial license
comeau is $50 (or was, it's been a while) and also uses the EDG front-end
@GMan: iirc, you can't use lambdas in an unevaluated context
 
That's what I thought, thanks. Also, that feed thing is pretty nifty.
 
10:33 PM
:45462 That's exactly what VC10 says.
:45456 Yes, but it's not as easy to use from Visual Studio and at the time they didn't support lambdas (I still think they don't). I would think that they should start supporting a whole lot of C++0x capabilities pretty soon...
 
my experience with comeau is pre-0x
 
I hope VS starts getting SP's out for C++0x.
 
ok now that is just strange
in the header file for a class, you say if you are going to have default values for your functions, but the cpp files can't have those default values in there
 
They're for the declaration only.
 
yup, you can only declare default values once
this includes template parameter default values, btw
void f(int, int); void f(int, int=2); void f(int=1, int); // valid
 
10:41 PM
so calling f() would pass in (1, 2)?
 
yes
and after those declarations, it must be defined as void f(int, int) {} (without defaults)
 
:45533 but what happens when I do int x = 5; f(x);
 
yep. Just not familiar with multiple declarations with different defaults
 
Would this not be a compiler error, as there is no way to know which version of f() to actaully call
 
there's only one definition of f
it would pass in (5,2)
 
10:44 PM
@thecoshman: those aren't overloads, they're re-declarations of the function that add default values
remember you can declare something that has already been declared: void f(); void f(); extern int n; extern int n; struct A; struct A;
 
:45560 why not f(1,5)
 
you can even declare after they have been defined :)
:45564 because given f(x), x is always the first parameter
 
:45567 suppose, but then surely f(int a = 1, int b) is pointless as you can't call it in such a way as to let a be left as its default, using the examples that Roger put forward in the first place
 
people just don't like me today, that's like the 4th unexplained downvote: stackoverflow.com/questions/4028630/…
@thecoshman: you can call f() to let a use the default value
 
the declarations combined are semantically equivalent to void f(int=1, int=2);
 
10:48 PM
:45572 but you never declared a version of f that has the two parameters as default
:45573 does the compiler make this assumption for you then?
 
@thecoshman: void f(int, int); void f(int, int=2); void f(int=1, int); — the second parameter must have a default value before you can add a default value to the first
 
@RogerPate Wow, 4? 1 or 2 might be normal, but that's silly.
 
:45576 is it not silly then to write that, surely you should just write f(int a = 1, b = 2);
 
:45578 I have been a little controversial; I suspect this last was a python or lua hater
:45585 usually, yes; but I know lots of useless and nearly useless quirks of the language
 
:45590 seems to be more of a quirk of a strange programmer to me, but what ever :S
 
10:53 PM
@Roger Have you and litb ever attempted to compare your respective useless quirk knowledge?
 
any tool you can't find ten reasons to abuse or hate is one you haven't used long enough yet
:45606 not that I recall, but he does know much more about 0x than I
 
Ah.
 
I'm considering using c++ in my next ios project. objective-c container classes are horrible
 
Anyone see the lectures on"Logic Programming" or whatever it was?
 
11:10 PM
I wonder if explicit out parameters, required in other languages (thinking C#), could ever catch on in c++
I generally dislike extensive type-system manipulation, but I can't really see how this use of it falls apart (though Out's methods may need to be looked at more closely, such as op=)
 
Huh, that's an interesting idea.
 
ah, the ctor needs to be explicit
 
Heh, that would defeat the entire thing eh?
 
yeah... 30 lines of code and one missed detail makes it a noop
site's been offline a lot recently
new datacenter fail?
 
Probably, I noticed that too.
Alright I have to ask, what's the quirk that makes this tick? bloglitb.blogspot.com/2010/07/…
For example, this fails: codepad.org/RXe3ym0u
I don't see it.
 
11:23 PM
arg, I didn't want to have to parse the code in that blog post
 
Haha.
I haven't either, but I can no longer deny it.
I understand the code, per se, but I don't see why it allows it in his situation but not mine.
Ooooh, it's the filler.
Don't know why though, but that's the feature.
 
inner classes are automatically friends of the outer class, but I don't yet see how it affects anything
ah, the explicit instantiation in the last line of his second code block
"enabled it to allow explicit instantiation to disregard accessibilities, as per the Standard."
your main isn't explicitly instantiating it, that's why he uses filler to save the fp
filler isn't important other than as a way to run the code automatically from the explicit instantiation (that's why there's a static filler attribute)
 
Ah, right. So wait, the standard says explicit instantiations don't respect access specifiers or something? Looking...(wtf)
 
apparently
news to me too
 
§14.7.2/8:
The usual access checking rules do not apply to names used to specify explicit instantiations. [Note: In particular, the template arguments and names used in the function declarator (including parameter types, return types and exception specifications) may be private types or objects which would normally not be accessible and the template may be a member template or member function which would not normally be accessible. ]
Why they did this, who knows.
 
11:35 PM
might be related to export somehow
 
Ah. FWIW, it's also present in 0x, /11.
@RogerPate What's the definition of instance w.r.t C++? Synonymous with "object", or "value", or neither?
 
so this is the new C++ lounge?
 
Yup.
@RogerPate More specifically, comments on this answer.
 
wrt the standard? or c++?
I differentiate standardese from normal communication
 
eh, both :)
 
11:47 PM
standardese I don't care about in this case
object, value, and instance would all be synonymous to me here
"object" sounds like it'd better standardese, "value" being more restricted
... though that's the opposite of what you said in the comment?
:P
 

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