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1:39 AM
20K Yay! (whilst I'm still allowed to talk here :))
 
@joran How will the initial group of those with write access be chosen? Is there a guest list? Will there be a bouncer? Will it be Dirk? Will Dirk have to wear a black muscle shirt and sunglasses?
 
@Dason My thinking was to seed it with (1) 3k+ rep (i.e. able to cast close votes) and (2) a "regular" in the chat room already.
But I have no intention of being a benevolent dictator here.
Once I flip the switch my thought was that if someone else wanted in, I would put it to the group and if there were no objections, they'd get in.
 
@joran which is the new room?
 
@joran You totally should go the dictator route
 
@geektrader This room will remain. There is a new room called R Public that I started today.
 
1:45 AM
Make everybody wear top hats and smoke fancy pipes
 
2:25 AM
@joran I think you might still have a problem. People with less than 3k rep can still be useful in moderation. They can point out questions which should be closed. Honestly, I'm not sure there's that much of a benefit to making the room read only. If you find someone annoying, you can just left click on image -> ignore.
As I see it, we've already set up a system where there's a place for noobs to chat. I say wait and see if people coming into this room becomes a problem and if it does, then maybe we can talk about making this room read only.
 
@sebastian-c (Sorry, was putting the kiddo to bed...)
The point is not to exclude people from participating in moderation. There's just been (for quite a while now) a desire for a room that is more or less expressly for folks to organize things like flagging, closing/deleting questions, duplicates, etc. without the noise and chatter of any old person being able to drop in and start asking random questions.
So the impetus for this is that folks already feel like the "noobs" dropping in and pestering people about questions is a problem. Folks have been griping about it for basically as long as I've been on SO (> a year now).
As an aside, I want to emphasize that (for me) the issue is not "R noob" vs. "R expert". Compared to Dirk, and many others here, I am most definitely an R noob. It's more of a desire for a place that's more free from "StackOverflow noobs".
 
3:41 AM
@joran I think we've already made some of those changes in starting a new chat room for noobs (which I don't think we've done before). Given that StackOverflow moderation is a volunteer effort, I would rather avoid raising the barrier to entry on that front.
Having said that, I appreciate the need for a clean chat room for the purposes of moderation and snark.
I'm just not yet convinced that the new chat room won't solve that problem. I'd let the new chat room run a little longer. If it doesn't result in a cleaner chat room for moderation then I'm all for making it read only.
 
4:09 AM
@sebastian-c Well, your objection is noted. But I don't think that the change we're discussing in any way raises the barrier to anyone to contributing to the site. Nothing we do here effects people's ability to acquire rep and edit/flag/etc.
This question has 4 close votes (including mine) but I'm having second thoughts about it being off topic. Other close reasons may apply, though: stackoverflow.com/q/15134858/324364
 
4:58 AM
@joran I don't mean mechanical barriers to entry but rather social ones. Several start being involved in this room before they hit 3k and they're useful members of the community. I think that part of the reason they kept going was because of this chat room and the feeling of being part of a group effort to maintain a clean site. If we keep the focus of this room clear (which I don't believe has been done until now, correct me if I'm wrong), problems should be kept to a minimum.
Bah, thus endeth the sermon.
 
We should say "Amen", in that case.
 
@joran Ouch. :)
 
@sebastian-c I meant that in the religious sense, not in the "thank goodness it's over" sense! :)
 
@joran No worries :)
 
@sebastian-c Look if someone is dedicated and smart and involved we can always let them in. But as a general rule most people with rep below a threshold are mostly useless noise makers. And we simply had enough of them here. Feel free to sort through the noise over in 'R public'.
 
5:21 AM
@DirkEddelbuettel There is definitely something to be said for that. Most of the proficient R users will spend their time here. If for whatever reason the R Public room goes quiet, questions will just be reasked here, leading to the problem that we had here in the first place. I'm convinced.
 
(Jumping up and raising hand) I am a useless noise maker and I am the one who suggested the idea. Everyone above please remember to drop in the noob room often! I am using all the
Scratch the last fragment
 
 
2 hours later…
7:59 AM
I wasn't aware we had a "noob" invasion that was getting out of hand for these drastic measures. Ah, brings me back to IRC days...
 
@RomanLuštrik I have seen only one other noob since I joined last week
 
Noob presence in itself is not a problem. There are occasions where people barge in and start asking basic R questions that have been answered, or could be answered, at the main site... repeatedly.
 
@RomanLuštrik This happened yesterday, and I excitedly tried to answer. Sorry for the disturbance
 
I wasn't aware of that event, I was away all day.
I think having a separate R room for newcomers is sufficient, and I don't think we need to make this room read only. My two cents.
 
@RomanLuštrik The incentive to stay here and try to immerse myself in the presence of smart people is very great for me though. The other room has no one
@RomanLuštrik So someone with a reputation of 21 comes in and ask how he can get xls file into R (I thought that was the question), and I excitedly greeted the only other noob I've seen and recite the intro text (read.csv) to him. The owner/moderator warned us not to do that, and the other noob said something really rude to Dirk... That is the order of the event.
If I have remember the name correctly
I'll be screwed, but I should be punished for not following the rules :(
 
 
1 hour later…
9:46 AM
and so a new regime settles in
 
meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta chat-room chat-room
 
10:35 AM
@jora
 
10:48 AM
friggin' badgers eh?
@Spacedman that DJ was playing uphill from us last week, it starts early evening on a Friday and was still cranking at 2pm the next day :)
untz untz untz
 
is "Uphill From Us" the name of a club night?
 
 
2 hours later…
1:02 PM
@Andrie Were you trying to say something to me?
 
1:12 PM
Hi. Yes, but I was interrupted and then SO lost my half-written text.
 
1:46 PM
@RomanLuštrik Is that a strong objection, or just a "Meh" objection?
 
@joran More towards "meh". How this filter would affect future recruitment should be assessed.
 
Ok. We can always switch it back if it's a disaster.
 
@joran What I was going to say is that I also think it's unwise to make this room read only.
We want new people to come in, but only if they behave.
In my view, a better solution would be to have a room where entry is open to everybody with rep of higher than, say, 1000.
 
Ooh, nearly 25,000 [r] questions
 
I don't know if that's possible, though.
 
1:59 PM
@Andrie I don't think that's possible to do "automatically" but my original plan was to basically use 3k rep as a cutoff. If we lowered that to 1k would that satisfy you?
Someone would still have to manually approve people, of course.
(Keep in mind that I'm basically Dirk's vassal in all this. I have no issue with doing this, but the only reason I'm spearheading it is because Dirk presumably doesn't want to deal with the mechanics of actually approving people one by one.)
 
2:17 PM
Cutoff doesn't matter. Wherever you draw a line in the sand, someone will complain. Announce a cutoff, stick to it -- but also allow for special consideration. Eg Romain is I think still below 1k. Same with Simon Urbankek. There can always be "invites".
 
@DirkEddelbuettel I sort of thought that exceptions for R Core members went without saying. :)
 
yes, we definitely want to make exceptions for some r core team, like rep of 100K in one case.
 
Or other 'dudes' like Romain, Matt Dowle (not sure where his rep karma is now, probably higher than 3k) etc pp
I quite like that the room is quieter now.
 
I agree - quiet is good.
I suggest run with the existing rules (i.e. anyone can join) and only close it if the existing warning isn't enough of a deterrent.
 
2:53 PM
@Andrie I suggest run with scissors.
 
3:08 PM
Does this recent change mean this room is now a quasi-benevolent dirktatorship?
6
 
@JoshuaUlrich It's always been that way. This just makes it official.
 
 
3 hours later…
6:22 PM
Ok. It's been almost 24 hours for cooling off. I've heard lots of tacit approval (i.e. lack of disapproval) and a few suggested trying out the new R Public room to see if that helps things.
Given my lack of seniority in the role of room owner, I'm not confortable actually pulling the lever, but if @DirkEddelbuettel still feels strongly about making this change, I'm willing to help manage write access approval if he does the official act of making the room private.
 
Just go for it. What's the worst that can happen?
 
@Dason Everyone could decide they hate me and never talk to me ever again.
 
Ah yes. There's always that...
Or you could be deemed the savior of the R chat room and people will make shrines in your honor.
Clearly these are the only two possibilities.
 
7:05 PM
I haven't been here; I'm not really in favo(u)r of the change (you know I'm a wuss) but won't argue if everyone else wants to do it ...
 
7:26 PM
@joran Sure do. My vote is on "Go for it", but Ben's dissent is of course noted.
 
Alright, we'll give it a shot.
Here we go...
room mode changed to Gallery: anyone may enter, but only approved users can talk
4
 
Thanks guys. This is an interesting experiment, at least.
 
7:49 PM
Ok, so I just granted write access to ~47 people (not counting me, Dirk and Roman). I will continue to add people I recognize as "regulars" using a min of 3k rep (for now) as a cutoff.
You can always send a request, or ping me in R Public if you think I've forgotten anyone.
 
8:02 PM
Thanks for minding the store and doing all that, @joran. Much appreciated.
2
 
 
1 hour later…
9:02 PM
I feel like this question is going nowhere fast, but I'm not sure what do about it:
0
Q: Unexpected results using strptime in R

cwhit25I currently have Date in one column and Time in a second column but I need to have them as one column. Here is some sample data: Date Time 1 1244174400 -2209143600 2 1244260800 -2209143600 3 1246075200 -2209143600 4 1247803200 -2209143600 5 1247889600 -220914...

 
I was going to comment on it asking for a dput of the data (something about the alignment of the column headers made me curious), but I didn't because it didn't seem to be going anywhere. The comments are right; can the OP explain how one would even get from one to the other.
The last edit was only half an hour ago, so I'd give the poster some more time (few hours) to fix things before doing anything.
 
@joran snark it into oblivion!
 
Well, yes. "doing anything" meant closing. Snarking shouldn't be considered "doing anything" ;)
 
9:22 PM
I was also thinking if the OP eventually edits with sufficient info, the question should be edited so that it's not so long and unwieldy.
 
EDi
test
Uhh, can I write here?
@joran Thought I was banned from here.
 
@EDi Banned is a strong word. You're only 133rep short of 3k, and you have a history of participation both in the R tag, and here in chat.
 
EDi
Sorry for that, english is not my first language. So I am learning English here beside R ;)
 
No problem, I just don't want people to think the exclusion is punitive.
 
EDi
jupp, have to leave - have a nice weekend!
 

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