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11:00 AM
But obviously, the teachers don't know fuck about good code.
 
Returning a vector does not invoke operator=. In C++11, it will either invoke the move constructor or do NRVO. In C++98, it will either invoke the copy constructor or do NRVO. And every major compiler has been implementing NRVO for many years. — FredOverflow 9 secs ago
 
How do you make a function pointer to an overloaded function in C++? Isn't it ambiguous?
 
With a cast.
 
@FredOverflow What does NRVO stand for?
 
Named return value optimisation.
 
11:15 AM
> Stop wasting your time! Learn Haskell! And then come to the Lounge, the bestest chat room on the Internet, and start wasting time again! And Haskell room, too!
@CatPlusPlus lol awesome :)
 
@Papergay Indeed it can. However, more likely, you're just viewing the call stack for the wrong thread :P
 
D: Damn xDDD I should get used to debuggers xD
Anyway, thx @DeadMG
 
11:30 AM
> Verbindungsdauer (HH/MM/SS) 4607:13:28:33
Something's wrong with my DSL modem, I'm pretty sure I haven't been online that long :)
 
0
Q: Do people actually do OO in C?

FredOverflowMember functions can be emulated in C by passing the this pointer explicitly. Virtual functions can be emulated by explicitly storing in every object a pointer to a global array of function pointers. Fine. Now my question is, do people actually do this? I am wondering if it's worth teaching thes...

@TonyTheLion That would be something like twelve and a half years :)
 
If I would do OO in C I would do it SmallTalk-style with messaging and metaclasses.
 
Have you ever done it? I'm only interested in the real world.
 
I have.
 
11:45 AM
Can you post some example code? Just to see how it looks on the surface.
 
I don’t have the code but it was a hell. I can write it, but don’t blame me for getting the C syntax wrong. :P
With all the pointers to function pointers and whatnot.
 
Pointers to functions pointers? Wow :)
 
Was that void (**methods)();?
C syntax sucks.
 
double yes
 
How do I cast a function pointer?
(void (*)())myFunction?
 
11:51 AM
i think thats the right way
 
Ell
oh my god :L
 
1
Q: Is it legal to cast function pointers?

FredOverflow Possible Duplicate: Casting a function pointer to another type int primes[] = {11, 5, 3, 7, 19, 13, 2, 17}; int comp(const int*, const int*); qsort(primes, 8, sizeof(int), (int(*)(const void*, const void*))comp); Is the cast in the third line legal? Or must comp take const void* argu...

2
Q: Why aren't hot-swappable vtables a popular language feature?

dsimchaIn object-oriented programming, it's sometimes nice to be able to modify the behavior of an already-created object. Of course this can be done with relatively verbose techniques such as the strategy pattern. However, sometimes it would be nice to just completely change the type of the object by...

> Because the mindset of most languages designers is too static.
yeah, that's probably it
Exactly what power enables library designers to create objects without calling a constructor? — FredOverflow 7 secs ago
 
@FredOverflow Gist. The most important things are the class struct and the send function.
Note that it’s incomplete and very horrible.
Oh there should be class Animal = {…} in there, too.
Or struct Animal? Whatever.
OOP sucks without proper language support, be it Simula-style or SmallTalk-style.
The Objective-C runtime is probably better implemented than my crap.
Jan 16 at 23:39, by WTP'--
Doing OOP in C is like doing functional programming in machine code.
 
12:21 PM
@jalf Are you doing a lot of linear algebra at work?
 
@ManofOneWay Not at all. :D Why?
 
@sehe hoe zou je zeggen in het Engels: "het komt erop neer dat je niet zomaar een REQ-socket met een SUB-socket kan verbinden"? Google Translate isn’t very helpful.
 
@jalf Just curious =) I thought you did a lot of image processing.
 
@RadekSlupik "What it boils down to is this: you can't just connect any REQ-socket with a SUB-socket like that"
 
@sehe Thanks! :)
 
12:25 PM
@jalf Although image processing is more transformations I guess.
 
"Ultimately, this means you can't just" ... (alt)
 
I like “boils down to” more in this context.
 
@RadekSlupik Props for writing documentation :) (or is support explanation?)
 
@ManofOneWay Ah, yeah, not really. Some transformation stuff for different visualizations, but tbh, most of it is just displaying the images.
 
is it possible to look at the call stacks of the different threads with Code::Blocks?
 
12:29 PM
I'd assume so, since Code::Blocks (presumably) just uses gdb underneath
 
D: Okay thx
 
@Papergay just found this:
> It does not work in trunk either, but seems to work in debugger-branch. I just compile svn r7219 of the branch and will add it to my repo if it is ready (about 1 hour from now I hope)
> How to add my repo to your sources.list is described here: forums.codeblocks.org/index.php/… .
 
thx @sehe
 
@Papergay Cheers
 
@sehe blog post.
 
12:32 PM
@RadekSlupik that's... in between. Link to it when you're done ?
 
No way.
 
lol
 
It is 2012/08/12 right?
I never remember the numbers of months.
 
12:32 PM
Should be TCP<Fixed>
@RadekSlupik 12
Oh you mean, ordinals (rangnummers)
 
No, [FIXED], like on Reddit where they always use [FIXED] to fix something.
@sehe yes.
 
So, you have Socket [ACCEPT] and Bind [REJECTED], Socket[TIME_WAIT] too?
 
What?
TCP [FIXED] is just the name I gave to the article because that is what I call ØMQ.
 
Just a few other subject-modifiers that came to mind
 
lol
 
12:35 PM
@RadekSlupik Oh, I remember the ordinals quite fine. I just have a hard time telling what date (or even month) we're currently living in.
Honestly, I can sometimes be comfused whether we're in spring or in autumn. The quickest way to resolve it would be to consult the system date.
 
@sehe Im not even good with the year we have
 
It says “aug.” which isn’t very helpful if you need the ordinals.
 
lol change it
 
Woot. Seems people liked my choice of books.
 
I can change the way my system shows the time everywhere but that is confusing.
I rarely need the ordinals, but I do need them for Jekyll.
 
12:37 PM
@RadekSlupik lowercase (ugh) and with a period (fugly)!
 
@sehe of course it’s lowercase. Months are written lowercase in Dutch.
 
just change your clock/date
you dont need anything else xD
 
Changing the clock or the date doesn’t make a difference.
And I like how it is.
 
I really hate Jekyll. It's impossible to debug.
 
but isnt it written like 8/12/2012 ?
 
12:38 PM
I can customize it all the way I want.
 
@Papergay That's American, IIRC. Dutch would be 12/8/2012
 
@RadekSlupik now you can let it show you the ordinals
 
@sehe depends on what is 8 and what is 12. :)
 
@RadekSlupik Well, the context disambiguated that (today's date)
 
2 mins ago, by Radek Slupik
And I like how it is.
 
12:40 PM
Me neither
 
@RadekSlupik doooooooooooooo it! :P
 
I use a Bluetooth mouse. Do I get cancer now?
Stupid environment people.
 
Maybe
 
useBluetoothMouse :: Maybe Cancer
useBluetoothMouse = Nothing
 
Just don't use a mouse. I stream my music over bluetooth regularly :)
 
12:44 PM
I stream my music to my speakers over a cable.
 
@RadekSlupik i kinda dont like that OMQ
xD
 
@Papergay not my problem.
 
Me too. Most of the time. Sometimes, I'm too lazy to switch it all around and stream from my phone over bluetooth
 
I do like ØMQ.
 
@RadekSlupik nooooooooo
 
12:45 PM
yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee‌​eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee‌​eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee‌​eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee‌​eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees
 
its ugly
 
Your momma is ugly.
ØMQ’s API is less ugly than socket and poll and whatnot.
 
select, pselect, libevent, asio :)
 
yes it is, i dont use it either xD
i have my own class
 
select and pselect suck. Use poll or, if you are not tied to any existing protocol, ØMQ.
 
12:47 PM
why do they suck?
@select and @pselect
 
poll has no limit on the number of file descriptors.
 
because it is a software API
 
"As you start to program with ØMQ you will come across one problem more than once: you lose messages that you expect to receive. " lol?
 
@RadekSlupik a socketfag. I like it
 
12:49 PM
@Papergay that happens if you use the API incorrectly.
If you use the API that deletes files incorrectly, you are also losing data you are expecting to keep.
 
of course it does, but it could be more reliable to begin with
or offer at least 2 versions
 
@RadekSlupik who made that flowchart? In CorelDraw? DrGenius? Draw Perfect? Ms Paint?
 
ah i see, it has different protocols implemented
 
@RadekSlupik it can't be you, the FontMeister himself. That is some ugliness to behold
 
@sehe The guy who wrote the ØMQ guide. And I don’t care what program he used.
@sehe I would use Helvetica Neue.
 
12:52 PM
Oh good
 
And for my website I use Palatino, or for people without superior fonts installed, Georgia.
 
Helvetica Nude. Sounds interesting
 
lol
 
helvetica neue is nice font :o
 
Palatino?
I know.
 
12:53 PM
damn
120,000 ^2 is just too much for my poor RAM.
 
Jun 10 at 14:46, by Konrad Rudolph
@rubenvb In fact, Book Antiqua is a knock-off of Palatino, the latter being one of the most professional fonts and most beautiful ever designed
I’m sorry for remembering all those things.
 
@DeadMG Call the NSA, maybe you can borrow the hardware they used to crack RSA and SHA
 
lol
 
lol you apologize for strange stuff
 
Konrad omitted a period at the end of his sentence. Never expected that.
 
12:56 PM
@RadekSlupik Even Cicada occasionally misses her periods
 
I know, right? Let's burn him at the stake tonight. I'll bring the gunpowder and you bring some matches. Maybe the robot could bring some TNT.
 
You are going to sue him now, no?
 
@Papergay stop being not funny.
 
@RadekSlupik if i wanted to be funny, i would have not payed attention to my spelling ;o
 
Best Twitter client ever y u no more exist. T_T
 
1:01 PM
Which one
 
Itsy
LOL
@__daknok If you have a better design, then please file a bug report in the bug tracker and attach an example.
The ugliness of Doxygen's breadcrumbs is bothering me.
 
The uglyness of @__daknok is bothering me
 
:P
“daknok” was already taken… by me.
 
lol
 
@daknøk @daknok_t @class_daknok_t @WTP'-- @RadekDaknokSlupik @RadekSlupik:
Schizophrenia ( or ) is a mental disorder characterized by a breakdown of thought processes and by poor emotional responsiveness. It most commonly manifests itself as auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions, or disorganized speech and thinking, and it is accompanied by significant social or occupational dysfunction. The onset of symptoms typically occurs in young adulthood, with a global lifetime prevalence of about 0.3–0.7%. Diagnosis is based on observed behavior and the patient's reported experiences. Genetics, early environment, neurobiology, and psychological and s...
 
1:08 PM
I just can’t stand it when things are the same for longer than a month.
 
Too few trivia too remember :)
 
> I personally just encourage people to switch to KDE. This "users are idiots, and are confused by functionality" mentality of Gnome is a disease. If you think your users are idiots, only idiots will use it. I don't use Gnome, because in striving to be simple, it has long since reached the point where it simply doesn't do what I need it to do. Please, just tell people to use KDE.
First time I agree with Torvalds.
 
Torvald uses XFCE now
 
who gives a shit about what Torvalds does?
 
@sehe looks cool.
 
1:11 PM
Flaming
@RadekSlupik What? XFCE, or the name?
 
XFCE
 
he's demonstrated no particular capacity to be more intelligent than Joe "Average Programmer" Smith
unlike, say, myself
 
XFCE is basically Gnome avant-la-lettre but without the enterprise delusions
 
Only the JPEG screenshots scare me. If they use compressed JPEGs for their screenshots, it doesn’t encourage me to use it since it will probably be as ugly as the screenshots.
 
@DeadMG bwahahahahahaha :)
@RadekSlupik It's ok. But less polished than Gnome2 IMO
OTOH it is a lot quicker and lighter
 
1:13 PM
@sehe That’s not difficult.
I’d never, ever use Gnome.
 
Never said that. KDE, however, achieves the unlikely: being slower than Gnome on many occasions
 
It’s cumbersome, glitched and difficult to use.
Even Windows > Linux qua GUIs.
 
I think that it might even be illegal to engage in sexual activities with gnomes
@RadekSlupik 'qua' ? :) "as far as ... are concerned", "in respect to", "when it comes to", "vis." etc
 
qua |kweɪ, kwɑː|
conjunction formal
in the capacity of; as being: shareholders qua members may be under obligations to the company.
lolwut
Is the definition different from the Dutch one?
 
really... I've never ever seen it used (as such) in English. Let's ask the natives
 
1:17 PM
The only thing I like about Windows is that it has Consolas.
 
Only recently
 
lol when I start Visual Studio
This product is licensed to:
daknok
Microsoft
VS y u lag
VS y u no respond
 
It doesn't approve of piracy
 
Dear Windows,

How fucking difficult can it be to just start an IDE and don’t lag?
@sehe I did not pirate it.
 
Why not?
 
1:21 PM
Because it was free anyway.
Is Kdevelop worth installing Linux?
Fuck it. I am suspending Windows.
 
Not in my experience. However, if you like KDE and do GUIs you might get some use out of it
@RadekSlupik My windows is permanently suspended and banned to the external eSata disk
 
What distro do you recommend for C/C++/Haskell/Python development?
Preferably one that is very lightweight and has a simple GUI.
 
I just use *buntu or Debian
Lightweight: Xubuntu
 
So Debian. :)
 
Others swear with Arch or Gentoo
 
1:23 PM
What GUI does debian ship with?
Gnome?
 
I think you need to choose. I've only ever downloaded minimal net install ISOs (16 mb or so)
 
16 MB?
 
NET install
 
The one I’m downloading is 400 MB.
“netinst”
 
Woah, multiarch as well. I like to roll with minimal. Granted, I always have to dig for it
 
1:25 PM
Don't use Debian.
 
Hi guys, I have a small problem with qsort function from cstdlib: does it work with classes? Or maybe my code is incorrect? ideone.com/GCdc0
 
Don't use qsort.
 
@gogowitczak Don't be a masochist. Use #include <algorithm> and std::sort
 
Use std::sort.
 
That compare function is so horrible I can't even look at it.
 
1:26 PM
qsort is slow, unsafe and difficult to use; AKA C.
 
Yup. You end up writing 'C with classes'. That isn't C++
 
Ok, I'll try it your way :)
 
@CatPlusPlus Then how did you know how horrible it was?
 
I looked at it.
 
1:30 PM
then clearly you can look at it :P
 
@sehe is that just with bash, gcc, coreutils and apt?
i.e. all I need.
 
@RadekSlupik go with server install, and apt-get install build-essentials vim-nox screen git
 
Ah I already downloaded the AMD64 version.
Via BitTorrent.
I’ll just install nothing.
@sehe what is best, one partition, one for /home or one for each of /home, /usr, /var and /tmp?
 
at least do /home (great for backups). And use etckeeper/git
 
Aight.
 
1:36 PM
I only really use /tmp with SSD (mount it in memory). Other factors are uptime/reliability only, so I'd skip it
 
thank you guys, std::sort works great! :-)
 
:) has done so for >10 years :)
 
@sehe Hmm. I install it in a VM and the image is backed up every hour anyway. :P
Arrggg.
The installer has a spelling error.
 
it's a convenience for upgrades (say you want to switch distros, take your data with you) and to prevent problems when you fill /home to capacity (won't prevent services from running when it's on a separate partition).
 
“Standaard systeemhulpmiddelen”.
 
1:41 PM
:)
 
Hmm I can now choose to install the GUI.
But I assume that will also install crap like Gedit and Tomboy notes or whatever that’s called.
Hmm. I’ll just skip it.
Aight installation is complete.
sudo not found. T_T
Awesome.
 
Use su like a real man.
 
I am now considering Fluxbox and XFCE.
 
2:00 PM
Xmonad.
 
Ratpoison
 
> xfce4-session
Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display:
lolzz
oh lol startxfce4
 
@CatPlusPlus I suppose qsort only works with trivially copyable types?
 
Dunno.
 
It’s a C function. It doesn’t work.
 
2:06 PM
I don't use it.
 
Schizophrenia is the second studio album by Brazilian heavy metal band Sepultura, released in 1987 through Cogumelo Records. It is the first album of the band with Andreas Kisser. The album's sound leans more towards the thrash metal genre than the previous album Morbid Visions, which is closer to death metal. All songs were recorded during August 1987, except for the bonus track "Troops of Doom" which was recorded during August 26–27, 1990. In America the band sent radio playlists at a time when they were struggling to book gigs because club owners were afraid to book them due to their...
awesome album
@RadekSlupik You had me at "OOP sucks" ;)
@RadekSlupik qsort is great if you work in C.
 
Aren't I nice?
0
A: Unicode strings in pure c++

rubenvbstd::[w]string, contrary to popular belief, has no Unicode support whatsoever. They both operate only on [w]char[_t] units, in an encoding agnostic way. If you only need basic Unicode support in the form of length and conversions and encoding verification, there is utfcpp, which provides a beaut...

 
well
thank God, the Olympics are finally nearly over
 
lol
 
@DeadMG Can't you just ignore the Olympics if you're not interested? :)
 
2:11 PM
I wish
but the Beeb spend practically half their taxpayer-funded time pathetically drivelling about it
instead of reporting on news that's actually important
 
the Beeb?
 
BBC
 
oh, hehe. Then watch a more interesting channel.
 
BBC = bare bone C, a very primitive form of C? :)
 
no.
@rubenvb Watch? What do I look like, a caveman?
 
2:14 PM
@DeadMG I don't follow.
 
obviously, I visit the BBC website, rather than watching them on television.
 
And I bet they have no online video channel -_-
 
2:27 PM
guys
 
@rubenvb They do, actually
 
he he
"This could also explain why we did not receive any complaints from the authors of these lost articles, as these could have been lost too. If that is the case, it seems likely that messages from gmail.com addresses are not being forwarded by the Dreamhost network."
totally absurd
 
Xeo
omg. When changing your dropbox password, they don't even ask you to repeat it...
 
There is no point in providing a move assignment operator and put the same code in there as in the copy assignment operator. Also, T(const T&&) is not even a move assignment operator; get rid of the const. — FredOverflow 8 secs ago
 
debian y u no ship with pip nor easy_install
 
Xeo
2:31 PM
@FredOverflow It is a move assignment operator, you just can't move from the arg unless all member are mutable :D
 
Xeo
But wat. Assignment op that doesn't return *this;?
 
@RadekSlupik wth are those beginner's tools?
 
@Xeo wat
 
0
A: how to provide a swap function for my class?

AjayWhy not write an assignment operator in the class itself? class T1 { int _x; public: T1(int x) : _x(x) {} void operator = (const T1& other) { _x= other._x; } // Move semantics void operator = (const T1 && other) { _x= other._x; }...

 
2:35 PM
@Xeo every modern assignment op should return void.
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Why? Isn't it reasonable to assume that some library assumes a = b returns a T&? Your code will break if assignment returns void.
 
@FredOverflow returning a reference has a direct cost in code verbosity, a direct cost in possible inefficiency, and an indirect cost in supporting expressions with multiple side effects, which are Evil(TM). this means, as I see it, that it's simply not a good idea to do it. if a library is based on multiple side effects, and is templated so it can accept your new code, then it is Evil Evil(TM) and best avoided.
 
it has a minimal cost in code verbosity, no actual cost in possible inefficiency, and absolutely no cost in terms of supporting multiple side effect expressions if you do not use them.
I for one have used multiple side effect expressions with no problem.
on the other hand, not returning T& may have an actual cost with being incompatible with generic code.
 
@DeadMG there are few idiomatic expressions, like *p++. they're not problematic. other are.
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf *p++ is much worse than some I've used.
 
2:42 PM
@DeadMG no, to both the "on the other hand" and the "may have ... cost". it's a FREE BENEFIT. identifying Bad Libraries (although I doubt that any that are that bad, exist).
 
lolwot
a bad library has a bad interface, or a buggy/slow implementation.
the coding standards they use in their own implementation is really none of the user's concern.
are you gonna refuse to use a library because it uses CamelCase and you prefer camel_case?
 
Xeo
@DeadMG snake_case*
 
whatever
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf I agree with you in principle. In my own dream language, assignment is a statement, not an expression, so there would be no need for a distinction between = and ==. But in C++, operator= returns a reference, period. When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
 
you would lose some expressive power doing that.
 
Xeo
2:50 PM
@FredOverflow expression templates wouldn't be possible with that
Or atleast not for assignment
 
e.g. if (derived* p = dynamic_cast<derived*>(baseptr)) { }
 
@Xeo My dream language doesn't have accidental features like expression templates ;)
 
Xeo
@FredOverflow Wat, no EDSLs? :P
 
@DeadMG can probably be replaced with pattern matching
 
ewwww
 
2:51 PM
@Xeo nope, never had a need for them :)
 
talk about curing a plague by nuking all the cities
 
You cannot seriously dream up a new language nowadays that doesn't have pattern matching ;)
 
I see neither purpose nor benefit to pattern matching
 
Xeo
runtime overload-resolution on values
 
yes, I know what it is.
 
Xeo
2:53 PM
And I think I remember quite a few times where it would have been easier with that
 
besides
it doesn't have to be a language feature, a decent regex or parser (depending on how complex the pattern) library could perform the same function
 
@DeadMG You have probably never used a language that supports pattern matching, hence you cannot really miss it.
 
Pattern matching <3
 
I had both Haskell and PROLOG inflicted on me at university (and PROLOG's primary decision making is pattern matching)
and both are experiences I wish to never, ever repeat.
 
You don't like Haskell? GET OUT!
;)
 
2:58 PM
eh
Haskell has dodgy as hell syntax, and at the end of all of that, it still has different semantics for an identifier based on capitalization, which no sane person should ever have to suffer
and it needs endless supporting bullshit to define simple things like I/O or exceptions
and what's up with the linked-list orgasm?
 

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