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Anonymous
11:00 AM
So, it's a huge risk unless I do something about it now
 
Anonymous
that sucks :/ it's a lot different here
 
https://lxr.room11.org/xref/php-src%40master/Zend/zend_API.h#238
… seriously. sizeof(). And I'm passing a variable in…
 
@samayo Either you do an apprenticeship if you learn a trade from scratch or you need something to prove your skill like a degree or previous work experience. Or a portfolio
If you were unemployed for 5 years and have nothing to show for it, I see the problem
That's a clear red flag for an employer
 
Anonymous
@Patrick I have done 5 internships already. I am currently doing one as a WP developer in EPFL. This is a huge milestone, but still the risk is there.
 
@samayo 5 internships? why?
And I guess that means you were not actually unemployed?
 
Anonymous
11:05 AM
Startups and Companies I was sent to by the employment service to validate my skills and get attestations. There was one real internship at LIIP. Sadly, I applied too soon (2013) and I didn't know many things then so it didn't work out.
 
Anonymous
Still only one year coding and I was able to pass 1 week exam, and got 2 months internship there.
 
There is a big demand for developers and not enough supply. Especially good ones are incredibly rare
If you are not finding a job in this environment, something is wrong
 
Like, you're from Bosnia :-)
 
Anonymous
Yeah, I'm part to blame also, for not still learning about Symfony/Drupal - those are the most sought after skill by most recruiters in jobup
 
Anonymous
I need to learn either of them or both soon
 
11:09 AM
You will never "learn" that shit :-)
 
never heard of jobup. jobs.ch is what I always used
 
Just get to know it... work on things you actually need..
 
I got a symfony job without having used it once before
 
Anonymous
jobup.ch is for canton VD.
 
Anonymous
I need a large quantities of Valium before starting to learn Symfony.
 
Anonymous
11:12 AM
btw: I know how to make a site, bundle and everything ... I just have issues with the configuration since the whole framework suffers from "over engineering"
 
Then put up a project on github and refer that in your resume
 
@tereško Would you consider helping write &// review a definitive post about MVC that explains where it came from, the bastardisation that is now prevalent in PHP, and once and for all put a nail in the coffin that we can just point to from now on as canon?
 
@Jimbo +1
 
Anonymous
+1 for Anthony's post. We also need a canon for Laravel
 
11:16 AM
@Jimbo I can try
@JayIsTooCommon and what you would put in it?
 
@JayIsTooCommon we don't do laravel here
 
Anonymous
@tereško The reasons for why it's frowned upon.
 
@PeeHaa How busy are you with your side project(s)? Do you have time to read all Amp docs?
 
Anonymous
!!issue Allow all URLs for canons - Currently, only SE URLs are allowed
 
11:21 AM
@JayIsTooCommon Issue created - github.com/Room-11/Jeeves/issues/212
 
@Patrick "Type-hints [...] It's a half-baked implementation of type safety" that guy...
 
@kelunik I may have some spare time this weekend
@Patrick lol
 
ugh wtf
 
@PatrickLouys I'm a developer, I love magic. Checkmate!
 
@DaveRandom hm?
 
11:27 AM
^ liked by laravel framework of course :D
 
@bwoebi TO's typehint comment
 
Well yeah. They share the same philosophy and they both get rich from crap code
 
also the world in general
 
We are all doing it wrong.
 
Anonymous
4 hours ago, by JayIsTooCommon
@Wes this is why I think R11 could go into business
 
11:28 AM
@JayIsTooCommon I am thinking the opposite :P
 
Anonymous
:B
 
The be successful you have to be an idiot and write crap code
 
We would fail so badly at business
 
They are selling snake oil to newbies
 
He @DaveRandom your brother is also in here
@Patrick I don't mind selling snake oil if the pay is good though :P
 
Anonymous
11:30 AM
@DaveRandom If we were committed, I'd like to think we wouldn't completely fail
 
I'm working on it (book etc)
 
The more the merrier
It wouldn't be hard to turn around communities towards clean code etc with a little effort
It's just a few influencers usually
 
That's kinda naive
 
why?
 
11:32 AM
@JayIsTooCommon sure, we'd need a product though. "We tell you how shit your code is" isn't particularly something people pay for, nor is it really a USP
 
@Patrick something something cults
 
s/l/n/
 
:P
 
@DaveRandom books etc
 
That too
No book / resource / twitter post / blog post is going to get to laravel supporters droids
 
Anonymous
11:33 AM
@DaveRandom yeah agreed, there are many gaps in the market when it comes to software imo
 
@DaveRandom Tell that to scrutinizer :D
 
@PeeHaa I disagree. Once they get more advanced they will look for more learning material
I was a codeigniter droid once
 
@DaveRandom We'd just never release any version of the thing we're selling.
 
@kelunik :P
 
@PeeHaa Sure it is, just end the post title with "...Considered Harmful" and introduce a new Javascript DSL framework in the post.
 
11:34 AM
See Amp v2, see:
!!version
 
Anonymous
^ or ever agree on a fucking logo.
 
hehehehe
 
@kelunik pfff, releases are for sissies. dev-master All The Things.
 
@Patrick Feel free to disagree. The past shows it's not as simple as you think
 
11:35 AM
Well I'll be trying it anyway
 
Yeah. Obviously. By all means do.
It's useful
 
ftr if anyone here ever came up with something that has a serious chance of being commercially viable I would totally get on board with it
 
If anyone else is interested in joining/creating some products let me know. We should help each other out :)
 
I haven't seen it yet though...
@Patrick The problem, like for everyone on earth, is a lack of ideas
 
I didn't mean to say you shouldn't write the book, or try to do what you are trying to do @Patrick. Just noting that you cannot convert all the laravel people :)
 
Anonymous
11:37 AM
@Patrick well I am, but my only strength is I make a cracking cuppa. So..
 
@DaveRandom I have too many ideas and not enough time...
@PeeHaa that's not the (first) target group anyways
 
Anonymous
@DaveRandom Restaurant/hotel reservation management
 
Oh I have loads of ideas, just no good ones that people would pay money for
 
@PeeHaa agree
 
@DaveRandom Shooting up crack as a service is not a good idea
 
11:38 AM
@JayIsTooCommon /sarcasm?
 
Or is it?
 
@JayIsTooCommon OK so every reservation management system sucks, I can attest to this from bitter experience, it makes me suspect it's a harder problem than it seems
see also: Monday's xkcd
 
!!xkcd 1200
 
@DaveRandom I have an SaaS that needs a lot of work, but the market is there. But I'm trying to follow the stairstep approach and launch a couple of normal products first to get experience
 
11:38 AM
random number there
 
Anonymous
@DaveRandom exactly. I've never come across one that doesn't suck. Offer an EPOS solution w/ web-based customer interface
 
TIL microtime(1) and everything that returns floats is affected by locale. That sucks.
 
lol
!!xkcd
doesn't that do tha most recent one?
 
your shoddy workmanship
 
11:40 AM
Who the fuck wrote that plugin??
 
@JayIsTooCommon thats one one of the standard software ideas that everyone has first. It's like wanting to open a restaurant...
 
Anonymous
yes, which is why they all suck.
 
Do you have domain knowledge?
 
Anonymous
I think we could make one that doesn't suck.
 
You can always make a new justeat
 
Anonymous
11:41 AM
@Patrick Yeah, I made one. It sucked. But it's still in use now :B
 
All delivery places fucking hate them and their prices
 
The problem is selling to restaurant owners... My brother owns one
 
Anonymous
our first client \o/
 
Anonymous
see!? We're already half way there.
 
:D
 
11:42 AM
Hello I am waiting for your answer ,that when I installed wamp server but the icon not turnig to green. I cannot access the mysql
 
:P
 
@PeeHaa It would appear that we will never know, because I appear to have fucked up the history at some point in the distant past
 
please help
 
@DaveRandom lolwatr
!!changelog
 
@JayIsTooCommon It's just not a niche that I would ever want to touch
 
11:42 AM
[ Jeeves ] [ d0ade44 ] Set Connection: close when downloading images for twitter - Committed by: Chris Wright on 18.04.2017 08:59
 
Oh it's because I moved the file
 
Ah you didn't do a git move?
So your fault! \o/
 
@DaveRandom @JayIsTooCommon @PeeHaa Adam Wathan made over 100k with his book and he barely knows how to code based on his tweets...
That's why I think thats where we should start
That being said, he sold to laravel devs...
 
@Patrick Is that that collections book?
 
@PeeHaa i_have_no_idea_what_im_doing.jpg
 
11:44 AM
We know buddy
<3
Oooh sjon sent me his account number
 
@PeeHaa yes. not sure how much his next one made
He actually gave me some tips for my own
seems like all his marketing was tweets and blogs
 
It's an interesting topic though. Laravel abuses it instead of writing sane queries afaik, but still :P
 
You don't have permission to access /phpmyadmin:3306 on this server.
 
@RAJMOHAN Your url is wrong
 
Oh I have nothing but respect for the guy as an author. But it gave a kick in the butt because there is no reason why I couldn't do that too :)
 
11:47 AM
@PeeHaa have fun with it :P
 
OK
 
@Sjon ohai o/
 
\o/
 
moin @Sjon o/
 
WHAT about
 
11:48 AM
morning!
 
MySQL said: Documentation

#2002 - The server is not responding (or the local MySQL server's socket is not correctly configured)
 
Is interest picking up @Sjon?
 
why this error dude
 
Anonymous
@Patrick anyway, besides that. I think with the minds in this room, we could make something pretty impressive and sellable. But, getting any initial commitment without a guarantee of clients would be hard
 
I am not a dude, but a gal
 
11:49 AM
ok
 
And a beautiful one at that
 
@PeeHaa I'm pretty happy so far! Seem to be meeting the goal to cover at least a year of hosting costs :)
 
Nice
 
What did I miss?
inb4 !!thepoint
 
11:50 AM
Cannot install the Apache service, please stop this application and try again.
 
oh cool
@RAJMOHAN OK I stopped it. Did it help?
 
more whisky for me \o/
 
I also stopped it
 
@JayIsTooCommon but you don't really need more than one dev for most ideas
(for a mvp)
 
Done and thanks @Sjon <3
 
11:52 AM
@PeeHaa Awesome, thank you!
 
@Sjon I expect my monies to go to blow and hookers
 
Anonymous
@Patrick yeah, that's a good point
 
@Sjon you could add your BTC/ETH or wtv adresses to the page as well. Or should I ask by e-mail?
 
@PeeHaa Maybe I'll find some hookers that are into whisky
 
Even better
 
11:53 AM
@pmmaga You're right; but everyone seems scared of those. I'll add them
\o/ eth
 
@DaveRand Thanks
 
@Sjon oh yeah! i made a bit of money in the last 2 weeks thanks to that :D
 
@pmmaga nice, me too. Really excited about the tech
 
Anonymous
@Patrick I'm all motivated now.. but i'm certain it'll go by 5pm :P
 
I found my self thanks Buddies it way simple issues duw to my.ini files .now I could run the php-mysql in wy ios watch using our client gigswa-her c++
 
11:57 AM
Here are some random ideas if anyone needs one...
membership website account sharing prevention
hidden video watermarks for each user to prevent sharing (membership websites)
paid code review website (for devs who want to get better)
scrum video conference tool (auto transcripts, chat, up/downvotes, show who is talking, talk-o-meter,...)
 
Anonymous
very niche
 
@pmmaga my ethereum address is up there. I wouldn't recommend BTC b/c of transaction fees
 
Would be nice if trivago do the sponsoring thing too cough @Jimbo cough
 
@JayIsTooCommon which is what everyone from peter thiel to rob walling recommends :)
 
@Sjon cool! i'll send some your way later today. :) btw, thanks for 3v4l! super useful stuff for troubleshooting internals stuff and such, being able to find exactly when some behavior was introduced is pretty awesome
 
12:01 PM
@JayIsTooCommon the video watermark thing could be huge (think online streaming websites...), but also quite hard technically
 
@pmmaga thanks! Let me know you name / twitter handle if you want to be added to the list
 
Anonymous
@Patrick let's do it.
 
Anonymous
i'll make the tea.
 
Wouldn't streaming sites be rather interested in EME instead?
 
That can still be screenrecorded?
 
12:06 PM
True
 
My original idea was to have those hidden pattern watermarked ever x frames, ideally so that it would survive conversion/screenrecording
 
Anonymous
Or put it in the audio
 
No idea if it's actually technically feasible though... And I guess it would you a lot of computing power and storage
 
But that also already exists right?
And gets stripped by decent recoders
 
12:08 PM
the idea is a couple of years old
 
Even vhs had it
years++
 
but there are a lot of video membership websites in countless niches with that problem
for example BJJ instrucors (caioterra.com for example)
video sharing is a big problem for those
 
Imo anti "theft" solutions is not something you want to even attempt. The other side has way more resources and time
 
Anonymous
oh nvm.
 
you just need to make it a little harder to share on torrents etc
so it's not worth the effort
 
Anonymous
12:11 PM
I thought you were saying you should just steal
 
I mean it would suck to have to work for Denuvo
On the other hand for some reason they do seem to still be in business
 
Those site owners would be willing to pay for that, that's one of their main problems (I know 2)
that and account sharing
 
Yes I understand they will pay for it. I was hinting to Denuvo because they keep getting pwned by pirates
But for some content just holding them off for the initial period may be enough
 
Can we have a RFC for locale not funkup the floats? :-)
It doesn't make sense to return eg. 1337,1337 if you cannot type it like that in the code?
 
@DejanMarjanovic Where?
 
12:23 PM
```
<?php

setlocale(LC_ALL, 'de_DE');

var_dump(microtime(1)); # float(1493811152,257)

setlocale(LC_ALL, 'en_US');

var_dump(microtime(1)); # float(1493811152.2609)
```
cannot 3v4l.org, no locales there
 
Ah, for var_dump, fine.
 
what about var_export?
 
BTW @Sjon where are you somewhere in rotterdam? Center?
 
@Leigh Trying, thanks, nice suggestion.
 
@PeeHaa Nope, Haarlem
 
12:24 PM
Oh. booo :(
That's too far for a quick beer :P
 
Haarlem > Rotterdam :P
 
Bitch please
:D
 
@Leigh Exports with a dot (correct), but still it would be written in the database etc. with comma.
And then if you do some math operations with it, they are funked up.
 
@PeeHaa What for? I'm getting them to sponsor PHPNW this year
 
I'm not sure why the funk would you use de_DE but still...
 
12:26 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO torrentfreak.com/…
 
@Jimbo Boo! The message exceeds the 140 character limit. :-(
 
Nooo
 
@DejanMarjanovic Are you arguing for support of localised floats when writing code?
Not sure what the problem is here
 
12:28 PM
Yeah @DaveRandom broke the messageresolverunwrapperdeluxe2.0 sadly :(
 
@Leigh I'm arguing not to support them, i.e. just put . whatever locale is.
 
Pretty sure it would fit otherwise
 
I don't think we support them anywhere except for output, which is what locale is for
 
@Patrick Yep, but it's not super explicit on how it doesn't exist as we know it in PHP imho. Something needs to be super clear and emboldened so the same stupid posts about "top MVC frameworks in PHP 2017" don't happen any more
 
@Leigh But microtime(1) isn't really for output, you usually add or subtract from something.
 
12:30 PM
hello, in a php extension, when a INI setting is invalid, which I can detect in my "change modification handler", what print function could I use to thrown an error back.
 
@DejanMarjanovic microtime also doesn't output a value directly...
 
@Jimbo you cant change those
 
the only time you see that value is when you echo/var_dump/etc. the value isn't localised until that point in time
 
@Jimbo ehh I had a long conversation with @Gordon about this not too long ago... :)
But go for it
you have a blog?
 
@Jimbo you should stop assuming, that people, who write those articles, have slightest clue about programming
 
12:34 PM
@tereško That's why I'm suggesting a 'once and for all' canon article that covers all the bases, not just a small post that can be lost in the ether
@Patrick Yeah but I want your guys inputs, mine is a little biased
 
@Jimbo start a draft then we can give some input :)
 
@Leigh True, this is more of a PEBKAC issue, tbh.
 
Anonymous
Does exit code of 1 for error affect any script running after wait?
 
Anonymous
python3 foo.py
wait
python3 bar.py
 
Anonymous
In other words, if foo.py exits with 1 does it exit the entire bash process or only the first one?
 
12:38 PM
Evenings o/
 
@JayIsTooCommon, just got my SC ticket \o/
 
@samayo Just the first one, you want to chain them using && if you want the failure to prevent subsequent commands from running
 
Anonymous
@Leigh Yeah, that's what I understood. But the second python script is not running after a sys.exit() is called in the first one.
 
@samayo did you use set -e ?
 
Anonymous
@pmmaga yeah.. I need to do that :P
 
Anonymous
12:45 PM
@Sjon Nah. Just #!/bin/bash at the top.
 
so echo foo>/x ; wait; echo bar also doesn't work for you?
assuming you don't run that as root
 
Anonymous
[root@nautilus ..]# echo foo>/x; wait; echo bar
bar
 
Anonymous
It's a VPS for testing
 
yes but I wanted non-root so the first echo would exit with an error ;)
don't forget to rm /x now
 
@Patrick game on
 
Anonymous
12:50 PM
[root@nautilus ...]# adduser simon
[root@nautilus ...]# su simon
[simon@nautilus ...]$ echo foo>/x; wait; echo bar
bash: /x: Permission denied
bar
 
Anonymous
It makes sense, but not sure how this solves the issue
 
so you have confirmed that non-zero doesn't affect wait. Are those 3 lines the only lines in your script?
 
OH: "Did you apply any layers to this software?" Answer: "I applied the factory pattern here" (overall architecture question)
 
Anonymous
Yes. In the first python script I am fetching data from an API, and when I reach the rate limit, I am calling sys.exit().. it's as simple as that.
 
Anonymous
Maybe I should try with quit()
 
12:53 PM
@samayo it should work fine; you can try bash -x SCRIPT; see what that says
 
Anonymous
I'll try.
 
Anonymous
I have reached the rate limit for today so, I will set try to see what happens tomorrow
 

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