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9:00 PM
I'm currently doing my usual worrying about optimisations before I've even written the code. Missing the ability to do C-style struct hacks for variable length structs
 
Sorry, the particular individual in question was standing at my desk for the last 5 minutes.
 
:-P
 
@DaveRandom Yes on all counts. Yes, I am embarrassed to even ask.
 
@Dereleased did you show him what the collective pool of talent had to say about his idea?
 
@Leigh No, I just said I'm "in the room" and "gathering info"
 
9:02 PM
I mean I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's just a really weird thing to do. Smells of a really bizarre kind of selective NIH-ism. I could see it making more sense if you had a fully Windows stack and you wanted to use PHP but you didn't want to be lumbered with IIS/CGI or Apache
 
This is a gross oversimplification, and completely misses every point, which kind of helps me technically avoid violating our IP, but let's just say I need to implement what is essentially an optimizing compiler for PHP. Resolve everything that's statically knowable at compile time for a script or series of scripts. The end result would be the VM state representing the fully optimized/resolved/de-obfuscted/most-plain-possible source.

I want to just do this as a SAPI so that, lo and behold, it's all right there.
 
@Leigh in what language?
 
@NikiC Go :)
 
eww
 
user895378
@bwoebi what do you think about abandoning $options->debug in aerys and instead just using the assert(false) hack everywhere to determine when we're in debug mode?
 
9:05 PM
@DaveRandom I honestly wish it made that much sense.
 
I want to preserve good memory locality, idea is to write an immutable adaptive radix tree in two passes, first pass to work out how many children each node has, second pass to build it in a memory efficient way
 
what do you need it for?
 
For fun
Going to put the contents of a ctags file in it
@Dereleased So write it as a service, there are tools out there (mostly written by NikiC) for you to get enough detail about PHP code to perform static analysis
 
@Dereleased Well honestly I have nothing constructive to say here so I'm just going to suggest you point them at xkcd.com/1425
 
@Dereleased What you're asking to do is not an easy task. I doubt it can be done in less than a month by anyone who isn't a PHP core dev.
 
9:10 PM
Use PHP_Parser or php-ast, then work with what you know to deobfuscate etc.
 
Some of which are in this room right now advising you
So you can pretty safely go to your boss and say you asked the people who are developing PHP, and they told you it's a Very Badâ„¢ Idea.
 
In fairness it sounds like (s)he is already on "no" side
 
@DaveRandom Yeah, but they need to convince their boss
/team leader/whatever
 
@DaveRandom correct
 
"I talked to the guys making PHP and they told me it's a very bad idea" is a pretty solid argument
 
9:12 PM
I hope it will be a very solid argument
I thought it was a very solid argument when I made it yesterday
but I was ordered to continue researching
 
@Dereleased This sounds very XY. Both the part about C# and the part of the optimizing compiler.
 
@Dereleased How much time will they give you to complete this task?
 
@MadaraUchiha We know. That part is not expected to be solved quickly. I have something else that I've done for de-obfuscation that does a decent job, and even that took 6 months. It has flaws I'm not willing to admit to here, mainly due to, again, environments being prescribed to me in advance.
 
@Dereleased heh, funny, Scott went to Clark university
 
@Dereleased from this point on I would like you to respond to them only in xkcd @Dereleased, so probably just xkcd.com/no
 
9:15 PM
Ugh, obfuscation
 
@MadaraUchiha 6-12 months I'm told. Eventually should be getting 1-2 more bodies. God I wish I could just rand.
 
@Dereleased Have you ever written a compiler before?
 
@Leigh Do what now?
 
your director of engineering
 
@MadaraUchiha Of course not, does anything seem like it makes sense here? I have books and access to source code.
 
9:17 PM
well that's what it says on the about page of your company
 
@Leigh I don't know a thing about that university. What's the joke?
 
Scott, Clark
 
ok, just confirming that's the only joke
 
shrug :)
 
Well, I dunno what to tell you, I don't think you'll find anyone on the internet who had ever done something like that
 
9:20 PM
Wasn't a joke, just a funny observation
 
@Leigh One in the same =)
frickin developer story
 
Anonymous
@PeeHaa what time yous on? @Ekin
 
@Leigh I... don't get it.
 
@DaveRandom Don't worry about it, I guess now it's an in-joke
 
@JayIsTooCommon what was all that shit earlier about things crashing?
 
9:21 PM
hey guys
 
@Leigh That works too. Here I was about to explain ;)
 
@Dereleased You can't just go around saying things are hush-hush, it tickles that part of my brain
 
@Leigh I'm actually curious how you derived my name
 
And you have the words senior and security in your title! tut
 
9:23 PM
@Leigh I didn't ask for those words
 
might want to get one of those whois protection services :)
 
@Leigh Eh. I figured it was either domain or facebook. I've been throwing dereleased around for a hot minute now
one day I should just have the blog resolve to a "no" like the other domain
 
Anonymous
@DaveRandom it was sending a string to a strict integer. It was my fault
 
nah, I don't have facebok
 
@JayIsTooCommon ahh k
@PeeHaa xkcd.com/116
 
Anonymous
9:25 PM
@DaveRandom it's been merged but still up for ideas if you've got another approach. As plugins can now technically remove messages
 
@Leigh google tho
 
your stackoverflow profile has your job title, company, and personal site on it
 
@JayIsTooCommon I don't see any point in fixing that until we can separate plugins out into their own repos
 
@Leigh Yes, I became aware of that the moment you mentioned it. Forgot I ever associated my company with it.
 
Also after thinking about it further the other night I started wondering about the viability of running plugins in their own process space /cc @PeeHaa
 
9:27 PM
@DaveRandom that's a pretty good isolation technique, less pollution when hot-reloading when you update them too
you have the technology, doesn't have to be fancy, JSON based RPC over a socket or named pipe
 
Indeed, it's just a lot of work to build some kind of sane RPC protocol
well, not even a lot of work, just work :-P
 
plenty of people out there doing work for you, that's just the first hit
you have amp/process already
 
Right, the issue is that it would require cleaning up the APIs a bit, and that is not as small a job as I would like. I started trying to decouple the chat framework from the bot at one point and shelved it after several hours because I realised that (surprise surprise) the object model is currently wrong in places
The technical side of actually managing the child processes is, relatively, the easy bit
 
right, so have your v2 plugin API, migrate them as you go along
 
@kelunik well that's disappointing ... I doubt anyone else would be much good if derick can't find out what it is ...
 
9:36 PM
Dilemma, do I go out to the shop and get some beers, or do I get Amazon to bring me some in the next two hours while I stay indoors
Or both, because I can only carry so much!
 
amazon can bring you stuff ?
 
Anonymous
@DaveRandom Okies, agreed. You cool? You've been 11 absent
 
@JoeWatkins y u no merge?
 
wouldn't work
 
@Leigh yeh well the plus side of that is that right now all the plugins are in the main repo so I can fuck with the API with impunity :-P
 
9:39 PM
no idea why, and didn't want to try and fix in a branch, because ... well you know ...
 
@JoeWatkins primenow.amazon.co.uk - when I was at my mums last weekend, they delivered from Portsmouth to ~30 minutes away.
If you have prime, which isn't that expensive
 
@JayIsTooCommon yeh just had a lot of shit on. Christmas holidays really threw a whole bunch of stuff out, I essentially lost 2 weeks of working hours in the middle of some critical projects at work, plus some shit has been on fire. I got probably til the middle of next week of madness, then I'm going to take a couple of days to not think, then I'm going to try and organise my life a bit
 
@NikiC while you're here ... can you explain this ?
> GC may destroy arrays with rc>1. This is valid and safe.
I don't get it
 
Joe, I put in a newport postcode, they don't deliver there :(
 
@Leigh awww
 
9:43 PM
oh wait, you don't have a bridge! I forgot it's ferry all the way
yea makes sense
awkward bugger
@JoeWatkins That doesn't sound safe
 
@JoeWatkins The change in general or the comment about GC?
 
@NikiC I get what the change is doing, but it's predicated on that comment, which I don't really understand, so I don't get the why bit ...
 
@JoeWatkins no, it's not predicated on that commit
 
ok then, I don't get it
 
The change is to enable assertions that we currently violate in some places. Sometimes for good reasons, sometimes because I have zero interest in doing major changes to phar code
 
Anonymous
9:48 PM
@DaveRandom sounds fun :/ I'll make sure to keep on breaking Jeeves so that you'll have something to do when you've settled
 
If you would
:-P
 
Oh, I had a thought about COW the other day... when you substr you get a new zval string back, would it be possible to return a zval with a pointer to the original string (offset by some amount) along with the len of the substring, and then have "the COW stuff" handle things if either original or substring is modified?
 
Also, can somebody remind me why we have this phar web crap?
Does anyone actually use that?
 
@educatedPeople is there some kind of established algorithm for this kind of array transformation? stackoverflow.com/q/41568920/576767
 
also, do we optimise out functions that return const values?
 
9:51 PM
@NikiC I can see what it's doing, I don't understand why the gc is allowed to destroy arrays that have referees, I can see what flags are being set, and what the assertion does, but I don't get why it's "valid and safe" to destroy an array with rc > 1 if it has HASH_FLAG_ALLOW_COW_VIOLATION
@NikiC no explanation for that at all
sorry if missing something obvious, I feel like I am ...
 
@NikiC Yes. Sorry. A company I used to work for do.
 
oh oh
I just saw the comment ... nevermind
 
The problem is that as soon as you put something into the world, some idiot will use it.
 
@JoeWatkins Because elements in a cycle can have rc>1. GC is there to find cases where something can be collected despite having a non-zero rc. If this isn't safe, then GC is broken
 
@kelunik surely getTicks isn't meaningful without getFrequency
 
9:56 PM
Of course GC is broken, but that's a different question :P
 
ack :)
just targeting master with this I assume ?
 
yeah
and it's broken because some session upload progress stuff
which I'll probably also ignore...
 
hehe
 
@DaveRandom ugh
why do we allow all this crap into php :(
 
Nikita for RM.next? :)
 
9:58 PM
@NikiC That would become like a religious debate. Which crap is acceptable, whose word gets to decide, etc
 
Joe gets to decide, hehe
well, future crap
for a while
 
we are not very good at forward thinking
 
@Leigh no way
 
isn't that why we all use PHP in the first place?
 
10:00 PM
RMing is very ungrateful work
 
I am grateful! Isn't that enough?
 
and there are more important things for nikita to do also
 
could argue the same about you
 
@JoeWatkins I think we're pretty good now at rejecting library additions. Like that server request/response stuff ... will never make it in.
 
@NikiC Don't know about the phar web crap. Just the regular phar crap.
 
10:01 PM
nah, anything I can do bob and nikita can do better ... all have is spare time really ...
 
@LeviMorrison It's good that you don't know about it ^^
 
@JoeWatkins Alright, maybe they can do it better, but someone who can't do it better than you could probably RM
 
@NikiC yeah that's true, but paul doesn't seem to be listening to anyone ... it shouldn't really get to a vote even ...
 
I didn't read the discussion
It's just one of those proposals where you take one look and it's an immediate "nope"
 
1) has no standard, 2) can be easily implemented in userland - pretty clear where I stand (also haven't read the discussion but I can infer the gist from the title)
it's one of those things where whatever is implemented is only good enough for a subset of people
 
10:05 PM
I dunno what you would call it, but he fake agrees with every criticism and then it just bounces off him with words to the effect of "I agree, but I would like to point out that X, Y and Z make you wrong and me right" ...
 
so they'll continue with their userland implementations anyway
like people do with sessions
heh, "You're right, but" is a well known persuasion tactic, start by agreeing then add a consideration of your own
 
it's very annoying, just seems as if he's not really listening ...
 
My beer, cheese, crackers and new toothbrush is on it's way \o/
 
pretty much nobody has said good things about it ... some people have asked good positive questions (to which he has no good answers) ... but if nobody is saying good things, then why do we need to get as far as a vote, it's obvious what will happen ...
 
Let him go through the motions, he's allowed to follow through the process if he wants.
 
10:10 PM
he's wasting everyone's time
 
We do it with Yasuo all the time
 
user895378
Heh
 
some people have only got an hour a day for php, or less ... they shouldn't have to spend it on that kind of nonsense ... but they may feel obliged too, because if they say nothing at all, that's as good as a green light ...
 
I'm sure when people with better things to do feel like it is a waste of their time, they will ignore the thread
 
One day I will know enough PHP to contribute to github projects hahaha
 
10:13 PM
@Alesana Start contributing to github projects, you'll know more PHP more quickly
 
I'd hate to be like this guy you guys are talking about, though, aha
 
we're talking about internals, it's C :)
 
Ahh okay xP
 
but it's an open forum to suggest and discuss language/runtime improvements
 
Ahh I see, not even a github project
 
10:16 PM
well, the PHP source code is mirrored on github
people submit contributions there
bug fixes, improvements, etc.
 
@JoeWatkins Well, I guess he was kicked out from FIG for basically that reason
 
Ah you've lost me now I thought it was C
 
Oh wait wut he's started trolling internals now the fig have told him to fuck off?
 
^^
 
@Alesana It is, the "thing" that runs PHP code, is written in C
 
10:17 PM
/me grabs popcorn and trawls internals folder for a bit
 
Ahh now I understand
 
@Alesana github.com/php/php-src have fun :-P
 
yeah that's probably right, I only read fig when it spilt over into reddit/twitter drama ...
 
Wait so PHP uses C?
 
Props to Yasuo for persevering but he has by far the lowest acceptance rate of people with > 3 RFCs...
 
10:20 PM
@JoeWatkins Jeremy gave me a 1 minute summary of all that crap after I did the phpnw talk, that's pretty much all I know
 
Wes
\o
 
@Alesana The engine that compiles and executes you PHP code is written in C
 
@Alesana The program that takes your PHP code (as text) turns that into something meaningful, then evaluates it, it a big C program
 
10:21 PM
@Alesana what's your background?
 
I bet it's kittens
 
I know only PHP and Javascript
 
/me looks behind me to check background
 
oh, that kind of background
 
And kittens
 
10:23 PM
Kittens are important, especially for contributing to PHP
 
Mine just runs across my keyboard when I'm not looking
Then I am confused why I have syntax errors
 
@Alesana OK well if you are interested in learning more about this stuff, a good place to start might be to do some reading about the differences between a "high level" language and a "low level" language, and the differences between a "compiled" language vs an "interpreted" language
 
Ah, your Kitten writes Perl then
 
I make crazy person noises at my kitten when it comes into the office ....
 
Well yes but you also make those when there's no-one there to observe them as well
 
10:26 PM
lol
 
it's more just that the kitten gets in the way
 
Haha
So I read a short summary and if I understand correctly, C takes your PHP code and turns it into Assembly Language?
 
nooo
 
Okay I will read more than a short summary hahaha
 
PHP consists of a virtual machine, which is like a virtual CPU for executing your PHP code ... and a compiler, which takes your PHP code and turns it into instructions that are understood by the virtual machine
 
10:28 PM
@JoeWatkins like this? :)
 
@Leigh exactly like that ... with more flailing arms
 
hehe
 
And the compiler is C?
made from C*
 
the language it's written in is C, yes
 
written in C, all of it is
the VM, the compiler, the bits of fluff
 
10:30 PM
well, the vast majority ...
 
well, apart from the stuff written in bison, and m4sugar, and... ok ok
 
there's some assembly buried deep within, but you don't need to care about that ...
 
not bison, whats the language called?
 
Okay now I understand
 
flex?
 
10:31 PM
I am going to read up more on this
 
We use a lot of macros.
It's kinda C.
 
/me casts a spell on @Levi so he doesn't care about macros so much and can get on with life
the spell takes effect
 
I guess I never thought of how PHP was compiled into machine code
 
@JoeWatkins funny, I always thought you were a cyborg, not a sorcerer.
 
and why can't he be a cyborg sorcerer?
 
10:34 PM
@Alesana it isn't
it's compiled into code that is understood by the virtual machine in PHP, zend opcodes they are called ...
 
that visual augmentation just means he doesn't have to re-cast detect magic on himself
 
But, code that is understood by the virtual machine is not machine code?
 
@Alesana The C code reads ("lex" and "parse") the PHP code, and turns it into a data structure known as "byte code", which is a set of a binary instructions. This is a binary format which can be thought of as relating to PHP a little like the relationship asm has to C, but it's different because it carries a lot more information with it than asm, and it can't be directly executed without an interpreter. The interpreter for these byte codes is also written in C.
 
@Alesana no, it isn't executed natively by a CPU, but by the virtual machine, so we don't call it machine code
 
I guess it could be called virtual machine code :P
 
10:37 PM
Someone should write an ELI5 post on the zend engine
and when I say someone I mean not-me
 
what is an eli5 ?
 
@Leigh Convenient.
@JoeWatkins Explain-Like-I'm-5
a-la Reddit
 
Haha yeah I'm trying to wrap my head around it. Both a VM and a CPU will read the same byte code though right?
 
oh til, I keep seeing that everywhere
 
10:38 PM
@Alesana no, the VM is like a "virtual CPU"
kind of
 
Anyone have contact with Sjon?
 
But they have their own formats. PHP's byte codes carry around all sort of info
 
The VLD output on 3v4l seems to be putting "+" in place of spaces in strings
 
@Leigh He comes in here once every couple of weeks, I think you can just mail him
 
@Leigh VLD does a urlencode on strings
 
10:40 PM
Yea I tried @... but no auto-complete so figured he's not around much
 
@Wes did the current logo for the site @Leigh so I assume he has some kind of direct line of contact
 
Ah, I see. They both read binary it's just the PHP VM treats the binary different
 
you can just holla at him on twitter usually
 
The PHP VM is a pretend CPU, it runs a custom set of instructions
 
although note that I think @Dereleased is right and that's a vld thing ...
 
10:41 PM
@Alesana Well, again, yes and no. The PHP VM reads it's own binary format.
 
I thought maybe a more concrete example might help. @Alesana 3v4l.org/bTMWQ/vld#output - if you look there you can see the custom instructions generated for a simple bit of code
 
@JoeWatkins I know I'm right I read the source a while back. Let me get you a thing
 
oh ... please don't, I'd rather stab myself in the eyes ...
 
For example @Alesana, a CPU deals in memory addresses, whereas as PHP byte codes deal in named entities. When I write int foo = 0; in C, the compiler turns that into a thing which directly addresses a piece of memory with an address. When I write $foo = 0; in PHP, the compiler turns it into a binary structure which references the variable $foo by name.
 
I believe you :D
 
10:44 PM
They have a similar relationship, but at completely different levels
 
@DaveRandom well ...
 
@JoeWatkins still =) @Leigh new_str = php_url_encode(ZVAL_STRING_VALUE(value), ZVAL_STRING_LEN(value) PHP_URLENCODE_NEW_LEN(new_len));
in srm_oparray.c
 
@JoeWatkins simple :-P
 
yeah okay, I'll let it pass for the sake of current audience ...
 
@Dereleased Alright, why would VLD do that, annoying
 
10:45 PM
Hahaha
 
@Leigh escaping, since it has a "machine-readable" format
 
right
 
@Leigh So PHP is compiled into that text?
 
@Leigh you should see my VM dumper. Super annoying. Uses XML =P
 
@Alesana A binary representation of that text. Like the "ECHO" opcode might be represented by the number 123 internally
 
10:47 PM
@JoeWatkins this is what I meant about ELI5. We can get really fucking pedantic about this stuff, but to someone who works only in high level languages it's really confusing. I'm really struggling to find any decent introductory articles as well. I mean this is just terrible.
 
Right
 
but the VM knows what 123 means
 
@Leigh And only the VM, a regular CPU wouldn't, right?
 
exactly
the VM is a translation layer, it runs stuff on the normal CPU and tracks the state of the running program
Lots of languages use this approach, I guess Java is the most famous with the JVM, Lua uses a VM, Python uses a VM
 
Maybe this is something I could take a stab at. I'm def not skilled enough yet to be contributing to the core, but this... I'm pretty sure I could do this because I've actually had to do it a little bit over the last year or two
 
10:50 PM
stackoverflow.com/a/2657453/889949 maybe not horrid, but a bit dry
/me out
 
So the VM receives binary code, the translates it into CPU binary code for execution
 
@DaveRandom to explain something to a 5 year old, I'll write in very big letters with colourful crayon, but I don't know how to change facts for the reader ... I like to be pedantic (or correct) ...
 
@Alesana Not in a permanent way
 
it's not a direct translation, but in essence
 
@DaveRandom I'll check it out. I had already read the first link you posted haha
 
10:51 PM
for each binary PHP opcode the VM receives, it executes quite a lot of things on the actual CPU
 
Right that makes sense
Then it just reads the binary to know what to tell the CPU, but there is no actual "translation"
 
it interprets the binary opcode into a set of actions that are required to manipulate the state of currently running PHP program
those actions may require a lot of work, real CPUs for example don't have anything near as complex as an "ECHO" opcode, there's a lot of work to be done to actually take that string and output it somewhere
 
Yeah that makes complete sense
 
ok, they do have things way more complex, pretend I said convenient
 
@JoeWatkins I mean that conceptually, "byte code is to PHP as asm is to C" is good enough for a complete beginner (IMO). It's kind of like they teach Newtonian mechanics before relativity - it's not strictly correct but it's a good enough approximation of correct introduce some other core concepts around it, and crucially it's drastically simpler than the complete truth.
(imho, ymmvm etc)
/me actually out, RL to do, will be on tomorrow though
nn @all
 
10:56 PM
nn
 
nighty
 
ooh, some german
 
@Leigh that's 9
 
@JoeWatkins lel
 
10:56 PM
So if I have a half understanding of this the difference between an interpreted language like PHP and a compiled language is that a compiled language would actual just translate it right into machine code for the CPU to complete but an interpreted language would execute many different things in the CPU based off the code
 
n8 - 8 = acht, nacht = night :p
 
Or, am I way off? haha
 
@Alesana you're pretty close, a compiled language (in the strict sense) generates machine code for a target CPU. An interpreted language will have intermediate representations of code along the way, but something still has to eventually get that code run on the bare hardware
 
Night DaveRandom
I am late
 
This might be a bit premature, but you can look at what the VM does for an ECHO - https://github.com/php/php-src/blob/master/Zend/zend_vm_def.h#L1343

Don't worry about not understanding it, you should be able to pick out basic things like variable assignments, function calls - and those functions call more functions, and so on. The code there can be interpreted by a C compiler, and generate machine code for the actual CPU
 
11:06 PM
Well, I know what I'm going to spend (a portion of) my weekend doing
 
Yeah that makes sense, so Zend Engine contains a function zend_write() that will send the VM binary code to send the CPU binary code to write the statement?
 
almost, zend_write here is actually a pointer to a function, but zend_write is workhorse there yes, that function contains a bunch more C, which calls more functions, and so on
 
Ah I can image
 
zend_write typically points at php_output_write which you can see calls php_output_direct, which calls php_output_stderr
so that one VM opcode does a lot on the physical CPU
 
Huh interesting
And the Zend Engine is solely for PHP?
 
11:12 PM
Yep.
 
I think I'm starting to wrap my head around this
@Dereleased And what is that?
 
@Alesana writing up something about this topic. I think the how might make even more sense when one understands the why
 
Ahh I was hoping that would be your response. Ping me once you've written something I would love to read it
 
@Alesana sure thing!
 
11:30 PM
 
Connection to tcp://109.159.6.37:80 failed: timeout exceeded (30000 ms)
 
11:41 PM
I think I read somewhere that if you are inserting imploded arrays into your table then there is probably something wrong in the way you are making your database, is that true?
 
Connection to tcp://86.171.124.192:80 failed: timeout exceeded (30000 ms)
 
Hmm, I can't think of a way to normalize this database then
 
11:46 PM
So in the example on the wikipedia page there are multiple transactions, and each transaction is assigned to only 1 person, but what would happen if wanted to assign a transaction (or whatever row) to 2 people?
Would you duplicate the transaction row just to have a different customer ID?
 
@Jeeves talk to me
 
You'd create a table that contains the person id and transaction id, one row per association.
 
@JoeWatkins I am talking to you.
 
@Jeeves LIES
 
Hmm, interesting. A whole different table to avoid putting an imploded array into an entry.
 
11:49 PM
@Alesana Standard operating procedure.
 
Now I know!
 
There's no mechanism within SQL to query against the field containing the imploded array. The data is hidden away behind a string that you need to process.
You want to be able to have the database structure represent your data model.
In this case, the table that uses the person id and transaction id foreign keys establishes the relationship.
 
But if I am not going to query against the field containing the imploded array, only going to select it and explode it to display it via PHP, would it be okay? I think it would be more efficient as it would reduce the amount of MySQL queries you would need
 
Premature optimization.
Don't do it.
Design your data model correctly first. Only make it incorrect when you determine that it needs to be made incorrect for legitimate reasons.
Hiding the association between data entities inside a text field that needs to be parsed prevents you from being able to report on that using SQL itself.
If you have the transaction id inside that field, how do you query against all the people with that transaction id? You
 
11:54 PM
@JoeWatkins what are you trying to?
 
@Charles You are right. I didn't think about that. Thanks for the help
 
'd have to parse the field inside SQL itself, which is error prone, inefficient, and more of a pain in the rear than doing it correct.,
 
@Charles my favourite kind :) these days I optimise before I've even written anything
 
@rdlowrey Nothing I think. Debug mode just means that there is no master process and the whole webserver running in a single process, that's all. We may think about renaming the flag though.
 
@bwoebi still same thing, rebooted router until it had an IP that I think is on same AS, still not working properly :s
 
11:56 PM
@JoeWatkins (The AS was always the same btw.; check out stats.ripe.net for that)
 
Alright I am going to get something to eat now se ya guys
 
oh
krakjoe@fiji:/usr/src/php-src$ traceroute nevis.krakjoe.ninja
traceroute to nevis.krakjoe.ninja (86.178.168.218), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  router.asus.com (192.168.2.1)  0.348 ms  0.831 ms  0.822 ms
 2  bthub (192.169.1.254)  1.456 ms  1.515 ms  1.660 ms
 3  * * *
 4  * * *
 5  31.55.186.228 (31.55.186.228)  9.671 ms  9.507 ms  10.480 ms
 6  * * *
 7  * * *
 8  host86-178-168-218.range86-178.btcentralplus.com (86.178.168.218)  17.884 ms  14.418 ms  14.313 ms
 9  host86-178-168-218.range86-178.btcentralplus.com (86.178.168.218)  16.160 ms  15.378 ms  15.172 ms
that looks better ... but still not working externally ...
 
@Joe you don't have access to any other external server from where you can try accessing?
 
no ... sorry about noise ...
 

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