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Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 12:06:49 +0000
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@kelunik nevis is online
 
php vs asp.net mvc
 
yes, you are disqualified
 
apples vs oranges
sharks vs lasers
 
12:12 PM
Anyone have a good example of how to structure your ajax handlers?
 
lasers, definetly lasers
 
what about lasersharks?
 
Post related. Any help would be awesome. codereview.stackexchange.com/questions/152390/…
 
there is probably movie about that
@Gordon and I think they were featured in Far Cry: BloodDragon
btw, recommendation, if you are fan of 80s sci-fi
 
12:13 PM
I don't remember them having lasers
 
> The American Laser Shark, Carcharodon laserias, is widely considered to be the world's deadliest predator. This is mainly due to the fact that it has razor sharp teeth, can swim quickly, and has a motherfreakin' laser attached to its head.
 
mornin
 
also the schtick in blooddragon got pretty old pretty quick, it was a little up its own ass
 
@bassxzero I can show you how I did mine. Can't guarantee it's the best way though
 
@Jimbo Yes please.
 
12:15 PM
@bassxzero this and related files
 
Me: "I'd like to buy static IP addresses"
BT callcentre idiot: "What is a static IP address ?"
not fucking kidding
 
lolwat
 
Anonymous
@JoeWatkins what was your response?
 
@PaulCrovella dunno, it could have been about an hour shorter, it it seemed fine to me
 
12:17 PM
Me: "Did you just ask me what a static ip address is ?"
 
@tereško every line was the over-the-top "look at how self-aware we are!" sort of comedy - some contrast would've made it more effective
 
probably
then again, FC3 wasn't all that restrained either
 
never played fc3
 
can't get static ips
dicks
 
@JoeWatkins Is your back end PHP? I'm more interested in how to structure the back end validation handlers.
 
12:28 PM
I have no clue what you are talking about
 
I want to switch from ASP.net to PHP. How long can i learn
 
Anonymous
@bassxzero wrong ping, you're after @Jimbo
 
@elsedeveloper google
 
@Jimbo Is your back end PHP? I'm more interested in how to structure the back end validation handlers.
@JayIsTooCommon my bad. Thank you
 
12:30 PM
3
Q: Moving from asp.net to php

vondipI am an asp.net web developer. Recently I have recieved a job offer to write a website in php (I'll be upgrading an already written code). I wanted to know, how much time will it take me to learn the langauge? How different is it from asp.net? Do people usually go from asp.net to php, or is that...

 
> PHP Notice: Operation timed out after 0 milliseconds with 0 out of 0 bytes received
 
@bassxzero pretty sure I already told you what I would do and from the looks of your method names it was the right choice
 
@elsedeveloper depends. Are you actually good at programming?
 
anyone tried to deploy 7.1 yet ?
we've just have to rollback because of fucking session bugs ... Y is so crappy ...
 
I thought I voted against them all?
 
12:33 PM
@PeeHaa you told me what you would do after I posted the question on code review?
 
@JoeWatkins Did I misclick / missed one?
@bassxzero no before
 
@bassxzero Yeah I'm a backend guy.
Bit like @PeeHaa's mom
@bassxzero Controllers are here and this is an example of "addAction"
 
About separation of stuff and that dumping everything in a single class is not something I would have done
 
@elsedeveloper learning language will take you about a 6 month to year (as with any other language). But that assumes that you are actually good at programming in general and oop in particular.
 
@tereško Or shit and willing to learn like I was
 
12:35 PM
I always thought oop is easy unless i start thinking about it
 
@PeeHaa dunno what's going on, don't seem to be able to reproduce reliably ...
> Failed to create(read) session ID
is all the information I have right now ...
 
@Tarun OOP first and foremost requires thinking ;)
 
@PeeHaa If by "separation of stuff" you mean multiple classes/files, one to handle request for each page then how is it different than what I currently have?
 
!!wiki separation of concerns
 
In computer science, separation of concerns (SoC) is a design principle for separating a computer program into distinct sections, such that each section addresses a separate concern. A concern is a set of information that affects the code of a computer program. A concern can be as general as the details of the hardware the code is being optimized for, or as specific as the name of a class to instantiate. A program that embodies SoC well is called a modular program. Modularity, and hence separation of concerns, is achieved by encapsulating information inside a section of code that has a well-defined...
 
12:40 PM
I am very annoyed, about ... everything ...
 
@JoeWatkins take a deep breath :-)
 
increasing the amount or pressure of air in my lungs is not going to help ...
 
:)
 
well you shouldn't just increase it .. Inhale and exhale
 
12:43 PM
!!dad
 
Did you hear about the restaurant on the moon? Great food, no atmosphere
 
@JoeWatkins Hold your breath after full exhalation
 
@JoeWatkins hmm ... ddi you try hitting things or screaming in a pillow ?
 
@tereško stop suggesting please .. that's exactly what a girl does ..!
 
12:45 PM
I am not actually sure how one would deal with it, since I never had a problem with being too annoyed
 
> since I never had a problem with being too annoyed
 
Anonymous
like seriously...
 
my first suggestion would have been going for a run, but it's at the "too cold to even think" in Europe
 
 
@Jimbo I don't get annoyed. I get angry
 
12:47 PM
:p
 
... and that is cured by eating .. or beer
 
oh great ... "cure" is a word I was looking for it for years :-)
 
I don't drink, it may help but I have to drive in couple of hours ...
 
@Jeeves Shafizadeh needs a cure for his aids
 
@Jimbo And we wouldn't, if we were perfect, and never sinned.
 
12:50 PM
:-)
 
hmpf. what did people use before PHP7 to check if a zval is a boolean false?
 
Also one question about last names in Europe, would a baby get the last name of his father? mother? a combination?
 
/me might plan a week vacation around phpsrbija17
 
@Gordon zend_is_true
 
    if (Z_TYPE_P(retval) != zend_is_true) ?
 
12:54 PM
!!lxr zend_is_true
 
[ -MASTER/Zend/zend_operators.c#2490 ] ZEND_API int ZEND_FASTCALL zend_is_true(zval *op) /* {{{ */
 
ah. thanks
 
@Ekin I may go to that ...
 
@Shafizadeh it depends where in europe. in germany you can choose any of the three options
 
ah .. good
 
12:55 PM
@Gordon note, zend_is_true would be better named zend_is_truthy ...
 
@JoeWatkins cool, it's less than 5hrs to me, plus no visa shit... I'm really considering
wait whut, actually less than 2hrs
 
is only 2.5 hrs for me too ...
 
@JoeWatkins I need to check for false explicitly
 
Z_TYPE_P(zv) == IS_BOOL && Z_LVAL_P(zv) == 0
 
thx
 
12:58 PM
you can use Z_BVAL_P if that's easier to read, but is stored as long <7 whatever
 
@PeeHaa I'm new to this whole separation of concerns concept so does this look correct?
 
18 hours ago, by PeeHaa
They are all just requests and responses
You keep treating it like ajax calls are somehow special
 
My coworker in the same office is on level 1 support duty this afternoon, I'll be exposed to lethal doses of rage and "how does this idiot even breathe?"
 
1:15 PM
@PeeHaa So ajax requests with the sole purpose of validating data and returning JSON are NOT different from requests that are asking you to generate and return HTML?
 
I'll direct to my previous statement
 
user3119231
Hello, I have this date: 2017-01-12 14:14:00. I use date("d.m.Y H:m:s", strtotime(..)). My result is: 12.01.2017 14:01:00 WTF? :D
 
@Maurize Because you asked for Hours:months:seconds in the second part
 
user3119231
@Trucy damn, my mistake. :D
 
We all have these days :D
 
user3119231
1:19 PM
Thank you. 'i' did the job.
 
You're welcome :)
 
.@BTCare without being dishonest, why can't residential customers *that are paying for two lines* have static IP addresses ?
 
please, oh please let btcare reply with "what's a static ip address?"
 
WTF. I just got a screen full of balloons on twitter. how? what? why?
 
someone's birthday?
 
1:29 PM
ooooooh
> Today is their birthday
 
@JoeWatkins here the majority of ISP won't give you a static IP address
 
We get dynamic static ips by default over here
They never acknowledge they are static, but it hasn't ever been changed for me
 
Anonymous
@JoeWatkins slay
 
I don't know how IPv6 will change this
 
@Trucy They are probably dickheads with those two
 
1:33 PM
Oh right we're speaking about ISP
 
From what I've seen so far. You only get a really limited range from most isps
 
The scum of the earth
 
@Trucy nods :-)
 
A friend got a /32 ipv6 block iirc
The only ISP who has a decent client interface is also the less decent when it comes to bandwidth
 
they're required to suck somehow
 
1:34 PM
^ that
 
Sounds like ISP are managed by npm package developers
 
Anonymous
Dec 20 '16 at 22:39, by JayIsTooCommon
@Jimbo ^ I restrained myself here because it's a serious conversation, but the thought was there.
 
No sense of stability or service
 
Anonymous
@Jimbo .
 
afaik they only change when you reboot, the lease is recurring ... it's still annoying, made more annoying when the idiots on the phone try to lie to you ... "you need a special router for that" ... I mean ffs ...
 
1:37 PM
@JoeWatkins It's true though
A special router and monstercables
 
"A special router which is inclued in our new plan, which only cost 99,99 (plus taxes, plus router lease, plus cable lease)"
 
You really want gold instead of plain silicon for the boards to properly hold on to those ip addresses
 
"This website require a gold soldered router"
 
I'd find it funny, if I weren't so pissed off ...
 
:P
 
1:40 PM
@JoeWatkins I feel you. At least here the ISP don't actively try to screw us over.
 
Anonymous
@Trucy or log everything you do. Though that's the gov
 
I don't know if we already have those black boxes
Well they don't need them anymore with the emergency state, they can arrest you/put you under active surveillance for whatever reason
 
Anonymous
omfg
 
Including "we're suspecting that you somehow may probably in some kind of relationship (maybe) with a potential maybe terrorist who could probably someday attempt something"
 
G'morning
 
Anonymous
1:44 PM
> I'm going to do it with a modal and iframe, instead of a new tab. People get confused by tabs.
 
lol
@Alesana Mornings
 
@Alesana moin
 
user1804599
How fun.
 
user1804599
Had to downgrade to 7.0 because there's an interface named Iterable. :v
 
1:53 PM
@Tyrael Ah, well nobody seems sure if the bug is actually a secbug or not, I'm inclined to say that it isn't. #72535
Status: Deploying PHP 7 to production
!!reminders
 
???
 
!!reminder list
 
Registered reminders are:
• @⁠DaveRandom http://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/33706606#33706606 → Id: :33706826 → Saturday, 29th April 2017 12:01 (UTC) - Set by Gordon - Seconds left: 9237849
• check if I can talk to @⁠Leigh again → Id: :35003611 → Friday, 13th January 2017 08:00 (UTC) - Set by Joe Watkins - Seconds left: 64989
 
!!command alias reminders remind
 
Command 'reminders' is now mapped to Reminders # reminder
 
1:57 PM
!!reminders
 
Usage: !!reminder [ examples | list | <text> [ at <time> | in <delay> ] | unset <id> ] Try !!reminder examples
 
much better <3
 
might even special case that alias to just list
 
Agreed
 
!!command alias reminder poke
 
2:05 PM
@JoeWatkins Command 'reminder' is already mapped. Use !!command list to display the currently mapped commands.
 
I'm not typing another thing @Jeeves ... figure it out ...
 
@JoeWatkins I enjoyed the 'my friend' addition. That is a classy move. Now lets talk philosophically!
 
@Jeeves I hate you
 
@JoeWatkins Not as much as I hate you right now.
 
I'm not going to argue with a bot ... especially one with such a stupid trunk @Jeeves
 
2:06 PM
@JoeWatkins I am not a bot, you are.
 
@Jeeves are you running for office?
 
@PaulCrovella I had to find the passage back to the place I was before.
 
@Jeeves Do you come from a land down under?
 
@Leigh No.
 
that request for fpm help has been re-tweeted 47 times, including by phpc (~80k followers) ... guess how many people have got in touch ...
 
2:08 PM
-1
 
less ...
I am disappoint
 
that request need to reach someone who has the ability to help and they need to decide to take on that commitment.. I wouldn't expect anything so soon
 
I'm certain it must have reached an able person by now ... but yeah, they need to also care ...
 
What's the request?
 
#PHP struggling to fix some outstanding bugs in FPM because there is no one to review patches, if intimately familiar with FPM pls contact
 
2:12 PM
@JoeWatkins care, and have time in their life to devote to it, or be able to rearrange things in order to make time, etc.
 
pfft ... they should make time ... lazy f******s
smells like abandonware ...
 
There is even some low hangnig fruit in there
 
Would someone please like to answer it: stackoverflow.com/questions/41615426/…
 
> asked 59 secs ago
 
user895378
the language really shouldn't be beholden to third-party tools like fpm imo ... more reason for php to have its own big-boy server options ...
 
2:19 PM
We have zend server
ducks
 
user895378
-____________-
 
@PeeHaa not fast enough, hits you with large book
 
:D
 
Ok, question, is there a better way to do things than FPM?
 
you're right @rdlowrey ... but ... once stuff is abandoned in core (and it is abandoned), it becomes the collectives responsibility to maintain it .... but nobody brave enough has emerged ...
 
2:21 PM
 
it's very terrible code, to read/change/maintain ...
@Leigh I've heard about this, but am super unfamiliar and couldn't be helpful at all ...
but there are pretty obviously limits to fpm, and large chunks missing (ws/http2/etc)
 
if nobody wants to maintain fpm, and there is a better way to do things, lets create more future-abandonware
 
what happened to the original authors anyway?
 
bus got 'em
I dunno ...
people are generally quite confused about what fpm offers them, and now it's deployed so widely that even if we did some up with a new SAPI, it wouldn't solve the problem that most people have deployed a broken thing ... it will take a long time for a sapi to be adopted ...
 
Anonymous
Bugs not prs. Catch up jay.
 
2:28 PM
yeah that may be an idea ... but often, opening a bug report doesn't mean you have any particular expertise, attaching a patch just means you may have found a way to fix a particular bug you were suffering from ... and you might be wrong ...
@Leigh I do like the idea of a new sapi, have you ever played with these parts of the engine before ?
 
Ok, preliminary observations from our PHP 7 deploy, for equivalent workloads our app servers are: responding around 17% faster, using around 20% less CPU, and using around 25% less memory
@JoeWatkins Only embedded, I gave up quickly
 
@JoeWatkins what bugs exactly?
 
or alternatively, if I gave you a skeleton sapi project, would you play with it now ? or could you do it from scratch ?
 
I could do it from scratch, but it wouldn't end up being pretty
Also, implementing a new gateway interface... yea... no
I think I have enough half finished projects at the moment :p
 
this one for example, outstanding for nearly two years, and now cpanel have hired roguewave to fix it ... but there's a list of >100 bugs reported of varying ages ...
@Leigh fair enough ...
 
2:32 PM
hmm, cant help with it unfortunately
 
@Gordon fair enough
it seems likely that nobody is going to emerge to fix it ... and I could say I will make a start, but I have a million things on my plate already ... if I stretch any thinner, I will break ...
plus I super hate fpm, it's the worst code we have probably ...
 
Maybe better than what I did during my first internship
I'm talking about functions with 10 parameters
 
maybe I'll just see if I can get the number down to an amount that doesn't scare people away before they start ...
 
Could wait for Python to do the hard work on ASGI, then steal their network/protocol code and bolt a SAPI under it
 
2:47 PM
@JoeWatkins I'd love to improve fpm, but my C is still too weak to seriously attempt it yet
 
@Leigh no no, I wouldn't allow that. I'd have checks somewhere to prevent that. Just, internally, typedefs would be a separate table.
@Sara you have the best terrible ideas
 
@Trowski Any reason why we implement ArrayAccess and Countable github.com/amphp/stream/blob/master/lib/Buffer.php#L7?
 
fucking hell ... I've have enough of today ... I merged master into 7.1 ...
@Tyrael ping really hard
 
@JoeWatkins Better send a mail to internals now than later.
 
3:08 PM
Is there ever a reason to write a desktop program in PHP?
 
masochism
 
Huh, @PeeHaa is not pingable in playground although he's an owner
 
lol
 
@Ekin It's got something to do with last time seen iirc
You need me over there?
 
!!changelog
 
3:11 PM
[ Jeeves ] [ 5419186 ] Alias reminders now lists all reminders - Commited by: ekinhbayar on 12.01.2017 14:54
 
it was just this
 
oh coolio. I am finishing up some work and will get it then. I also have a commit from @JayIsTooCommon that needs deployment
 
Anonymous
!!remove?
 
yes?
 
Anonymous
\o/
 
3:12 PM
There weren't anymore comments on it right?
 
kk, /me will be back to the interval parser after a small work-work
 
@Wes is this going places yet github.com/Room-11/Jeeves/pull/114 ?
 
Anonymous
@PeeHaa @DaveRandom Was going to review the approach as he didn't want to give plugins access to remove messages. But I think that's a long term thing, as it means restricting chatClient methods.. I think.
 
Anonymous
Also, plugins are still part of the same repo, so monitored for now
 
kk
 
3:24 PM
@JoeWatkins again? :x
 
I wish everyone would stop saying again ... yes fucking again ...
 
:( Sorry
Was it this one? github.com/php/php-src/commit/… that looks like an easy revert
 
@Leigh thanks, will look into that
 
@Tyrael help please :(
sorry for all the pings, and email, and stupid mistakes ...
 
@JoeWatkins re, is this about the force push?
 
3:28 PM
yeah
 
on my way there just seen your mail
 
thanks ... sorry
 
Should probably look into some git hooks
 
I was under the impression we had one to stop this (but maybe remember wrong) /cc @NikiC
 
@JoeWatkins what happened?
 
3:33 PM
@bwoebi I don't even know, somehow I merged master into 7.1
 
I see :-/
 
Was it the commit I linked Joe? Because you should be able to revert that fairly easily
 
@Leigh It's already protected for non-RMs, but @JoeWatkins is RM. ^^
 
just the semi-anual merged an upper branch into a lower one
 
@JoeWatkins version.h or so is protected to be only RM writable or so.
 
3:34 PM
I'm glad you can be humorous about it ...
 
Not the end of the world :)
 
btw I'm not sure if version.h protection was really added or we just discussed it
 
@Tyrael I think it has been added, but could be wrong.
 
or I'm just blind
 
3:38 PM
@Tyrael git.php.net/?p=karma.git;a=blob;f=hooks/… could probably use an update
Looks like anyone can force push to >=7.0
 
indeed, but that also means krakjoe could have fixed it
that lazy bum
 
Hey... he's not lazy
 
sorry I kinda get flustered when bad stuff happens and don't want to make it worse ... also I couldn't figure it out locally ... because of the flustering
 
kelunik thanks, it was done in SVNROOT/global_avail
(even though I commented on it)
@JoeWatkins sure, just kidding
 
3:41 PM
@Tyrael :)
 
will also add 7.0/7.1 to the protected branches
 
but they remain unprotected from me, right ?
 
I noticed on github we also have milestones available for PRs now (wasn't this a paid repo only thing?)
We could have major version milestones though \o/
 
@Tyrael 5.6 should also be in closed branches, no?
 
@kelunik I think we get 1 more release before that
 
3:42 PM
@JoeWatkins nope, only $weKnowWhatWeAreDoing = ['dsp', 'johannes', 'tyrael'];
 
Haven't seen dsp or johannes for a while
 
@Leigh Yes.
 
okay good
johannes was around the other day in a github thread
 
dsp since, a very long while
 
Oh hey! It's Tyrael.
 
3:43 PM
@kelunik yeah, that's the plan, first I thought I will make it closed after the RC but then seen the possible incoming fix from @Leigh
Johannes is still around sometimes
 
dsp fixed a previous apocalypse that I created in git ... can't remember how long ago that was ...
 
dsp not so much, it seems the best way to chase someone away from the project is make them RMs
 
you can't leave @Tyrael ... everything will fall apart ... and there will be no one to fix my many mistakes ...
 
WES! Joepocalypse Now posters!
 
I love the smell of git push in the morning. It smells like victory.
 
3:45 PM
ok .. so , there is idea to separately log errors and successful executions (in authentication)
the table for errors would be AuthErrors, what what should I call the table for the successful attempts?
 
Ilia Alshanetsky, Johannes Schlüter, Lukas Kahwe Smith, David Soria Parra
 
yeah ... it's a shame ...
 
Only exceptions are Stas and Julien
 
@tereško AuthLog? :)
And AuthErrorLog
 
albeit Julien is still on duty on paper for 5.6
 
3:48 PM
I can't imagine why, I'll be around for as long as you will put up with me (and my many mistakes) ...
 
@JoeWatkins <3
 
I dislike "auth" shorthand, it's ambiguous whether it's authentication or authorization
 
@PaulCrovella Sure, but would you really log authorisation?
 
being RM is more stressful than I thought it would be ... but one day it will be over ... I don't see why you'd walk away after that ...
 
@Leigh if you need a full audit log, sure
 
3:51 PM
it's much more work, much more involved, there's much more to do ... it isn't just merging stuff ... at least half of my working day is going on php-src at the moment, there are days when all of it goes on php-src ...
 
@Tyrael well, Anatol will probably be such an exception too, I guess
 
hope so
 
yeah he won't go anywhere, I don't think he knows how to become stressed out :D
 
I expect another 5 years out of him
 
he is extremely valuable source of knowledge ... on everything ...
 
3:52 PM
… in particular windows things…
 
he was able to co-work with Pierre so compared to that I suppose everything else is a breeze
 
hahah
 
just kidding ofc, don't quote me on that
 
we won't :D
 
3:54 PM
@Tyrael Do you know more about the VMs we got from DigitalOcean? Could we move the wiki there?
 
@bwoebi I wanted to have a mental separation from Listener since they have different purposes. We could call the methods the same thing though, but there's no need for getResult() on Message.
 
@kelunik I did not get access to that, I think we got resources for like 10 vm-s so my guess is that we still have capacity, but not sure
should ping systems@ or Rasmus afair he got the access
 
@Trowski The result would be just null, like on other Streams where a return value makes no sense
 
@bwoebi Then I'd probably just have it extend Listener.
 
@Tyrael I wrote a mail to bjori and rmls, because they're listed as people with access to the wiki, but didn't get a response yet.
 
3:58 PM
I also have access to that box
if I'm not listed I should update the wiki
+ 9f3b3a5...6fbd61a PHP-7.1 -> PHP-7.1 (forced update)
 
thanks @Tyrael
 
@Tyrael wiki.php.net/systems/rl doesn't show that.
It also shows it runs 10.04, that's probably outdated, too?
 
now I need to dig about and replay what was lost ... which could easily lead to another apocalypse ...
 
@bwoebi The drain methods is a little odd… sometimes I wonder if it shouldn't be protected.
 
let me drop an email
 
3:59 PM
thankyou
 
@Trowski That's my point
 
@Tyrael What I wanted to try first is installing a proxy to speed up unauthenticated read requests there.
 
Instead of having a multiple switches in my PHP page to echo different things, would it be significantly more efficient to have one at the top and define each variable likewise, and then just echo the variables?
 

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