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user1804599
12:00 AM
Volatile is useful for implementing GC safepoints.
 
user1804599
To issue a membar only when the GC wants you to pause, by making the page you volatilely access inaccessible. :P
 
@Puppy std::atomic<PhaseRetreival> atomic_copy(settings.retrieval); Idk, does this solve the problem?
 
@Mikhail Only if the source is also a std::atomic.
 
Do you mean source?
 
yes.
 
12:03 AM
Hmm, well I really don't want to dump #include<atomic> into my most used header...
 
hmm, well I guess that when your users notice that your code doesn't remotely work, they might prefer it
 
yes, not an argument for using volatile
 
How about that having torn/jagged writes on enums doesn't happen on x86 (I think)?
 
you're assuming that the compiler will generate the instructions you're thinking of
it has no such obligation.
 
So, should I use volatile or insert some ASM?
 
12:09 AM
...
how about just use the tools the language ships with that are explicitly intended to correctly handle the problem?
 
oh no not the header
well, then use a compilation firewall for that enum
and expose only necessary operations
 
Is that PIMPL? I honestly don't know what a compilation firewall is...
 
maybe
hint: pimpl can be done without dynamic allocation
 
Yeah I know, but it still sucks
compared to volatile or a few lines of ASM
 
less than writing inline assembly imo
 
12:12 AM
I agree, it sucks when you actually solve the problem
and using cheap hacks that don't even remotely solve the problem is way better
 
I'm 99% sure that using a volatile solves the problem on x86...
 
you're wrong.
the hardware platform is irrelevant
the C++ standard specifies that you are wrong
 
But I think, volatile specifies that it will be copied into a safe place, even when the optimizer is turned on.
 
nope.
 
:-/
 
12:14 AM
@Mikhail nope
 
before writing concurrent programs, it might be worth actually learning about what the problems are and how the language you're using actually models them and what the tools are and what they actually do.
 
@Xeo How do you handle parameters that have the same name as class members?
Does your postfix _ take care of that?
 
@Mikhail oh noes! compiling will take ~1ms longer!
 
Well I've been doing this for like 5 years, and haven't really had any problems or unit tests :-)
 
undefined behaviour includes appearing to work, buddy
 
12:30 AM
fuck, I also have to write my own copy constructors if I'm using std::atomic
 
12:50 AM
or apply rule of zero and make a copyable_atomic
...although I know no way to make copy assignment operator atomic so there
 
1:39 AM
Alright
-Wshadow is dumb as bricks.
enum class stuff { table }; struct table {}; // -Werror=shadow triggers
Fuck those warnings, I'm not turning them on for sol2
 
@ThePhD hey bby <3
 
@Borgleader Cutiepie. ♥❤♥
 
@milleniumbug Really this hints that C++ should have language level support for atomic things
 
@milleniumbug Can you even? The book I'm reading seemed to say it wasnt a thing.
or maybe i read too much into it
 
1:54 AM
@Borgleader I guess if they could, they would
so maybe the best you can would be commenting the copy assignment operator with // ATTENTION! ACHTUNG! NOT ATOMIC
 
2:07 AM
` note: compiler has generated 'ChannelSettings::operator =' here` But it looks like it generated an =delete :-/ This message is misleading.
 
@Mikhail It mostly does,. It just exposes it through the library. But exposing it inside the language is no panacea. Composing atomic operations is non-trivial anyway.
 
@JerryCoffin I know how to use locks, the problem is that a lot of extra work is involved in writing copy constructors, and assignment operators for all my POD objects. That is the thing I need fixed. I think old version of MSVC used to have something like this associated with the volatile keyword.
 
2:26 AM
@Mikhail Not...really. MS did (and still does, if you ask nicely) associate a little extra meaning with "volatile', but at least to my recollection not enough to make this trivial.
 
@ThePhD fix your code
@ThePhD I missed class, you're fine
 
2:54 AM
I got a joke about trees
How did the tree hack the mainframe?
 
Ell
@ThePhD whyy would you do this?
 
You can't expect something is not safe in the abstract machine to be fixed by asking to run it as it would in the abstract machine.
 
3:15 AM
@Mikhail Gotta be something about "rooting" it.
 
@JerryCoffin It was easy because he had root access
 
@Mikhail Minor problem: at least on some mainframe OSes, there isn't really an equivalent of "root".
 
Slowaris
 
But grass has root access too
Tablet is easier to chat on than phones
Big devices tolerate fat fingers
Also isp noticed that I am using sim on a different device
 
3:31 AM
Whats a tree's favorite drink?
 
H2O
I am very happy with this tablet
 
What if their name is 1337 Hacker 69 ?
 
Born in 69 or 69 yo? Detail is important ..
 
Also B1gD1ck R1ck 37
 
 
2 hours later…
5:42 AM
Programming language theory: Thinking the unthinkable‌​, a short essay on the philosophy of computer science (among other things)
(as per usual, via LtU)
 
6:02 AM
24 hours of flying != fun
 
hello. a bit off topic but do you know of any IRC channel were I can discuss twitch(VODs) related subjects?
sorry to leave this fast? it's 6am
 
> Everyone gives lip service to simplicity. Then they use C++.
 
6:48 AM
@GundolfGundelfinger encore plus de linguistique de comptoir, plus ça descend dans les commentaires plus c’est décalé
 
 
1 hour later…
7:50 AM
@LucDanton wow j'avais jamais réalisé que c'était une appellation régionalisée
 
8:11 AM
french looks nice, I can even read parts of it
 
Of course, English is virtually 50% French and 50% German :p
 
8:28 AM
@GundolfGundelfinger ce qui me tue c’est que je me souviens plus de ce que je disais à l’école, j’ai envie de dire just "crayon" mais jsuis pas sûr
 
moi crayon gris (devine d'où je suis !)
 
je me souviens d’instits et profs qui disaient 'crayon de/à bois' et on les regardait bizarrement par contre
@GundolfGundelfinger Romandie profonde
réponse 50% correcte
 
on disait aussi lápiz mais bon
 
sérieux ?
 
8:30 AM
c’est quoi ton opinion sur le piment d’espelette ?
 
je subodore un meme
 
 
1 hour later…
Ven
9:46 AM
Hi
 
10:24 AM
Hello @Ven
 
10:54 AM
room topic changed to Salon<C++>: English is virtually 50% French and 50% German [c++] [c++11] [c++14] [c++-faq]
8
 
11:11 AM
'bin laden' sounds awfully close to 'being latin'
 
Bejing Stalin
 
user1804599
Hi.
 
11:40 AM
> As it is the case in most scenarios the source of latency is usually due to the .NET Garbage Collection, so we always try very hard to minimize object allocations specially in our performance-critical components. nimaara.com/2016/03/06/beware-of-the-idictionary-tkey-tvalue
that double approximation
the article seems cool
 
user1804599
Use Rust.
 
WHAT HAPPENED
WHY ARE WE NOW A FREAKING BARBER'S SHOP
 
11:55 AM
I think OP wanted to get this effect
but his keyboard died midway
 
@sehe Well, that's not completely wrong
 
12:06 PM
@набиячлэвэли it’s virtually true
 
12:32 PM
I got some impressive allergic skin reaction today.
As if I got sunburnt in less than 2 minutes without sun.
 
12:44 PM
I am on a bus again.
That did not feel like much of a break. :l
 
@LucDanton Barring a couple influences from Scandinavian languages
 
1:14 PM
Criminy.
I can't solve this Heisenbug.
 
user1804599
Try referential transparency.
 
user1804599
Behaviour always the same!
 
1:34 PM
Well.
At least I know it sigsegv's in the Lua library.
 
Xeo
1:47 PM
@ThePhD What postfix _? In personal code, I prefix with _underscore, and in Unreal (work) code, members are UpperCamelCase.
 
@Xeo Oh. I thought you did postfix _...
Maybe it was someone else...
 
Xeo
nah
 
Ugh.
I hate reading this code and trying to figure out what its doing.
 
2:04 PM
Fuck.
 
@Morwenn Who is that man?
 
* was
 
@Morwenn Who was that man?
 
user1804599
A mass murderer.
 
user1804599
2:12 PM
Hope he suffered a lot prior to his death.
 
Finally figured out the Heisenbug.
Jesus christ that was a lot of work.
 
Looks like Fidel Castro, so I'm guessing that's right
 
2:37 PM
@ThePhD dare I ask?
 
@Mgetz Probably not a very exciting tale in the end..
 
threading issue?
 
Basically.
Person turned on Lua coroutines to the max.
Coroutines are allowed to fire up a new Lua Thread without really telling you.
Callback from a lua function bubbles down, he calls something that belongs to the global thread, kaboom...
It showed up randomly because some of the time in debug builds Lua wouldn't launch a new thread, so the callback would work.
Hot, kinky non-determinism.
 
@rightfold so harsh man
 
user1804599
Go's sort package has an interface named Interface.
 
2:44 PM
why is it "Salon<C++>"
 
inter-face
 
user1804599
Because you never use unqualified imports, so you write sort.Interface.
 
@ThePhD hmm would be nice if there was some way to mark access to an object as thread specific so that thread sanitizer can pick up improper accesses
 
Xeo
@Mgetz You can write a wrapper type that does that
 
@Xeo how would you get it to operate on all accesses from the wrong thread? I'm seriously curious. I'd think you'd have to proxy every call.
 
Xeo
2:57 PM
@Mgetz Until operator., you'd have to, ye. Give it a decltype(auto) access(F fun){ check_thread(); return access(value); } member
Or make it usable with range-for, so you have for (auto& v : thing.access()) { /* do what you want */ } and again, check in access.
 
ah ok, that makes sense. Could still be painful if you have a lot of usages, but I suppose you could make access a non-member function and use tag-dispatch to pick the right access on the actual object
 
3:14 PM
@Mysticial 24 hours? What flight was that?
must have been multiple flights
 
Ven
@milleniumbug ça n'a jamais changé
 
@Ven wow. j'ai même pas réalisé que c'était la traduction littérale. How SO shapes our mind...
 
user1804599
3:34 PM
("SProd" "NN.Vertex.Vertex" ("SString" "Hello, world!") ("SProd" "Data.List.Types.Nil") ("SProd" "NN.Vertex.Style.Ocean"))
 
user1804599
Yay for generic serialization. \o/
 
@milleniumbug I assume @sehe wants to try out a new career in hairdressing
 
user1804599
S-expressions are really cool.
 
user1804599
Simpler than JSON.
 
@AlexM. I just realised that "Salon" is an anagram of "Loans".
Loans<C++> == technical debt
 
3:39 PM
Salope<C++>
 
Salon?
damn
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: English is virtually 50% French and 50% German [c++] [c++11] [c++14] [c++-faq]
 
Ven
3:56 PM
:<
 
4:08 PM
Alright done helping that guy with his code now lmao
Guise
Naming bikeshed
I have something that takes an iterable and then dumps its items 1 by 1 as a list of arguments to a function.
dumper ? iterator_dumper ? argument_vomit ?
 
TheCurryator
 
sol::args_source ?
 
That seems pretty chill
 
Xeo
@ThePhD [1, 2, 3] => f(1, 2, 3) or [1, 2, 3] => f(1), f(2), f(3)?
 
if only the phd learned to paste code
instead of compiling these obscure explanations
if only
 
4:17 PM
@Xeo The first one.
f( 1, 2, args_source( { 3, 4, 5 } ) => f( 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 )
 
Argument list maybe?
 
Maybe just sol::args
 
@sehe thief
 
@GundolfGundelfinger You know it's only because you're loved
 
@ThePhD ENOPARSE
 
4:21 PM
Oh. I missed a paren.
Well, too late to fix it now.
 
@ThePhD iterate?
 
@ThePhD the_robertator
 
@ThePhD for_each
 
iterable expander?
 
4:23 PM
u.u; I describe it better below. Or at least, Xeo does.
I think sol::expand would be the best name for it.
 
@ThePhD <3
 
or you know give it an obvious name like
to_args or to_args_list
and make it clear it's a conversion
 
Ven
> I unfortunately don't have anymore time to help you clean up the entire codebase. Good luck.
rofl
 
What. ;;
It's true!
 
> ;;
The OCaml now alive in you forever <3
 
4:31 PM
Mumblegrumble.
I'll shake the habit.
 
> China’s crazy smog-sucking vacuum tower is actually working inhabitat.com/…
 
@AlexM. Lolwut
 
user1804599
Anyone wanna play Minecraft?
 
no.
 
4:55 PM
Just Had 2 day long journey around the dark web.. what a creepy and same time wonderful pace..
 
5:14 PM
Who speaks like that?
Movie characters?
 
5:25 PM
fact: fidel castro died on a black friday
 
user1804599
> How to present, with appropriate accuracy and precision, the most honest of all estimates:

"I don't know."
 
5:47 PM
Somewhere between now and the and of my life. Maybe never.
 
Probably before the sun becomes a red giant.
probably
 
6:31 PM
> Elsewhere, ministers are also conducting a 10-week consultation which includes examining whether to implement legislation which would force newspapers to pay all of the costs of libel or privacy actions brought against them – even if they win their case.

This would not apply to publications which sign up to a new state-backed press regulator.
UK, ladies and gentlemen.
Are all countries going full right-wing retarded these days?
 
Ell
That is authoritarian
not right wing
but we could argue about what left/right means
 
UK is going right-wing retarded, though.
 
Ell
how else?
inb4 brexit which we don't know any terms of yet :V
 
...everything that's been happening in the UK recently?
I don't remember what the last not right-wing retarded thing that happened in the UK is anymore.
 
Ell
6:47 PM
well good job :)
 
user1804599
Right wing is good.
 
user1804599
setupDB :: ∀ eff. Connection -> Aff (postgreSQL :: POSTGRESQL | eff) Unit absolutely magnificent.
 
@ThePhD seriously. Sounds identical to std::for_each
 
It's pass-by-value. So Java will COPY an object that you hand as a parameter. But, the references to object (memory addresses) inside that object are values, so are copied and still point to the same memory. So, if you change a referenced object contained INSIDE of an object that you handed as a parameter, it will change the memory and thus the original object. Whereas if you just change the object handed as a parameter, the original object is unchanged. Primitives (ints, floats, arrays, etc) are copied as values and don't have this style of references. — Araymer Nov 11 at 17:04
triggered
 
user1804599
Pass by value or pass by reference doesn't matter if you never mutate anything.
 
user1804599
6:58 PM
And you should never mutate anything.
 
user1804599
Therefore it doesn't matter whether arguments are passed by value or by reference.
 
mutation is super useful
 
Without mutation, we wouldn't be there :p
 
Looks like Java passes objects by a value of a reference to their value. — IllidanS4 Nov 21 '15 at 10:47
wat
 
Couldn't we just say to Java mostly passes pointers around?
 
7:08 PM
@Morwenn Java passes pointers by value, basically
 
@Morwenn The problem is that first, you'd need to understand what pointers are
 
Uh.
Stuff that points.
 
You can't understand what pointers are in the context of Java, because Java has no pointers.
 
NullPointerException
 
Xeo
Isn't it NullReferenceException?
 
I think the overall conclusion here is that Java is shit
 
^ It basically is just a for each to dump args.
The implementation is, anyhow.
 
C# has null ref exception
Java has null pointer exception
 
@Xeo In see hash
 
I'm really happy I solved that Heisen bug.
Now I'll probably nap.
 
7:16 PM
we had a bug once
turned out some numpty rendered the actual time inside a unit test
 
@Xeo [youtube.com/… by yourself)
 
so they would fail whenever the rendered output included the digit 2
I must be missing out on something, but go away
 
Xeo
@Puppy Oh right
 
7:24 PM
long time no see fellas - how goes it?
 
Ell
Howdy
 
oh boy howdy did someone flag?
 
arhggh... no Garak these days? Where am I going to go to for my DS9 episode advice!? :(
 
@JonClements He's on Dischorse
 
@JonClements Discwhored
 
Ell
7:46 PM
@JonClements He's on dickscord
 
@GundolfGundelfinger well you know - if you don't want your pseudo-scientific gibberish advertised to the world, best not spill it in the lounge :)
 
@JonClements He has become one with the Disco Horde
 
anyone else going to throw in more variations of that at all? :p
 
Il a une guitare à dix cordes.
Pardon my French.
 
7:51 PM
@JonClements I think they've all been had. So these are just the tired repeats of the few worthy scrambles
@Morwenn I stand corrected. Call it a scordatura
 
@sehe Datura is enough. I don't need any more madness.
 
Datura is a genus of nine species of poisonous vespertine flowering plants belonging to the family Solanaceae. They are commonly known as daturas, but also known as devil's trumpets, not to be confused with angel's trumpets, its closely related genus Brugmansia. They are also sometimes called moonflowers, Jimsonweed, devil's weed, hell's bells, thorn-apple, and many more. Its precise and natural distribution is uncertain, owing to its extensive cultivation and naturalization throughout the temperate and tropical regions of the globe. Its distribution within the Americas and North Africa, however...
 
@Morwenn I'm going to assume anime context there
 
@sehe Nope, @набиячлэвэли was on the right track.
 
surprisingly
 
7:54 PM
> Due to the potent combination of anticholinergic substances it contains, Datura intoxication typically produces effects similar to that of an anticholinergic delirium (usually involving a complete inability to differentiate reality from fantasy).
 
@Ell wow. Impressive they are so informal to address you as "Ellie" in a tweet :)
 
had a problem with the alarms at our company
determining they are tampered with due to the power problems
 
Xeo
Don't remind me about alarms
We have a meme in our team about our firealarms randomly going off for about 2 weeks before they got fixed.
 
Ven
@Xeo you're thinking .net
 
Xeo
Keep reading :P
 
Ven
8:02 PM
@rightfold i just realized i don't have mc anymore
 
user1804599
XD
 
Ven
@Xeo backlogs!!1
 
user1804599
SELECT
    v.note,
    CASE WHEN count(e.*) = 0 THEN
        ARRAY[] :: uuid[]
    ELSE
        array_agg(e.child_id ORDER BY e.index ASC)
    END,
    v.style
FROM vertices AS v
LEFT JOIN edges AS e
    ON e.parent_id = v.id
WHERE v.id = $1
GROUP BY v.id
 
Ell
@sehe heh
 
user1804599
This conditional expression is unbearable.
 
Ven
8:03 PM
@rightfold i used my gf's acc 4 years ago :|
 
user1804599
But otherwise it would return ARRAY[NULL] :: uuid[] when there are no edges. :/
 
@ThePhD I completely misunderstood. I get it now.
 
@StackedCrooked 3 flights. I'm in the other hemisphere atm.
 
Ven
@rightfold array_remove(array_agg(...), NULL)
 
@Ven I'm told they're selling accounts
 
Ven
8:13 PM
@sehe $$$
 
Yeah. Heaps of it. How dare they
 
Ven
"they" are not the problem :P
 
Are the $$$ the probelm?
 
Ven
i don't really want to spend money on games
 
user1804599
8:31 PM
> total pump capacity of 50 kL/s
 
user1804599
@Ven O(n)
 
Frick. I finally refactored my code enough that VS stopped giving nonsense errors in one of my headers.
Now it just crashes outright a few lines later.
 
Xeo
Don't write bad code.
Also, hi Mooing, I think it's been a while?
 
@Xeo a couple years
since I was regular
 
Xeo
Ye, but also the last time you were here in general was a while ago, unless I missed you recently.
 
8:37 PM
@Xeo I think more specifically: be careful how deep your auto/decltypes go
@Xeo probably most of a year
doesn't help that I'm usually online while you Europeans sleep
@Xeo you were one of the Europeans, right?
 
Xeo
ye
 
I got a job that actually cares what I do, a wife, and a gym membership
 
@набиячлэвэли Looks like you've got some skill when it comes to botany :D
 
so I cant hang out here during work anymore
 
@Morwenn literally pasted taht into google
 
8:42 PM
@набиячлэвэли Let me enjoy the bittersweet taste of my bad jokes without having to endure the salty flavour of tears.
 
@MooingDuck thankfully he got better since
 
@LucDanton Because there's a lot more simplicity to be introduced
@MooingDuck Interesting. I rate my jobs by the extent to which I care what I/they do :)
 
@sehe new job is way better, but I cant loaf in chat
 
Well. I just adjusted the balance. I don't loaf. But I do occasionally flip by
 
new job is Java though. So there's that :(
you can do some cool things with reflection, but I really miss templates. And value semantics. And overloading.
 
8:53 PM
Java has templates :P
 
they're actually called "generics"
 
@набиячлэвэли no
 
I know that's why I :Pd
 
and they suck
 
@набиячлэвэли gross
 
8:54 PM
@milleniumbug That I also know
Also you should use Scala for a better TS
 
user1804599
PureScript.
 
user1804599
Java generics are very good. Reflection is butt.
 
Ell
arrays are butt
@набиячлэвэли scala is kind of a mess IMO
but in an enjoyable way
@rightfold you're good at database stuff right?
 
Xeo
9:10 PM
@LucDanton lol
 
9:32 PM
wow... my echo dot is going well
 
@JonClements echo dot?
does it have quantum?
 
yeah... can have it turns lights off and all that
 
derp, amazon echo
should have made that connection
 
my brother gave me a free one... blah
 
Ell
9:51 PM
I can't decide how to store opening hours in my db :V
 
in UTC
always.... in UTC
actually wait... no because derpy time zones
would mess that up
 
Ell
well
even before then I don't know what tables I need
 
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