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2:11 AM
7
A: Document how to contact a moderator

LauraI updated the copy on the "What if I see someone doing something bad?" page to include the following: Contacting a site moderator The usual way to contact a moderator is to flag problematic content. If the content or behavior is not in a place where you can conveniently flag it directly,...

strangely, they encourage abusing custom flags for all sorts of things
you might hear back from a different mod, of course, whoever gets to it first
 
I'll give it a go - thanks
 
 
3 hours later…
5:54 AM
@SymbolixAU This is outrageous. If it wasn't him, I would post an angry Meta
but you could easily contact him in the R-Public room as he is "one of ours"
I haven't seen him deleting this or this because Hadley haven't mentioned it is his package. This is an obvious abuse of his powers
 
can't we just ask him? he has access to this room anyway ...
@SymbolixAU @DavidArenburg from what i've seen, he is a quite reasonable guy
btw: good morning!
@SymbolixAU some support for you from another moderator:
74
A: Declined flag on spam - when author doesn't disclose affiliation

Brad LarsonYou flagged two posts as spam by a 4k user who had left nearly 200 answers. These posts suggested the use of an open source library that this user was the author of. They state that they are the author of this open source library in their profile. The two answers did appear to be genuine attempt...

 
6:13 AM
Good morning all
 
6:41 AM
I went through a period (shortly after releasing the package) of answering several questions - he deleted all the ones where I didn't explicitly state I was the author. I tried to ask him about it on my answer here http://stackoverflow.com/a/38024257/5977215 - and was tempted to start flagging all answers by Matt Dowle, Arun, Hadley etc where they didn't disclose themselves, but I thought better of it.

His response:
"the general rule is: if somebody asks about package X, then package X's maintainer can answer without disclosing affiliation (they are not promoting). If somebody asks a quest
So ultimately, it appears I was wrong not to disclose my affiliation, but deleting the posts straight away seemed a bit harsh
 
6:58 AM
@SymbolixAU you disclosed it in your profile, which is not the best way for disclosure but much better than nothing as explained in the answer I linked to above
 
7:31 AM
Hi there
 
Hi @Tensibai
This should probably be closed, but not sure what close reason
 
7:42 AM
morning
 
@Axeman "Why isn't this code working?" ?
 
@ProcrastinatusMaximus Okido!
 
Hi
 
hey
 
@DavidArenburg it's pure truth ;-)
hello all :-) how is everyone ?
 
morning peeps
 
@Queen k
@Cath a little headache from the glasses of aperol/prosecco & limoncello I consumed yesterday evening :-/
everything else is fine :-)
 
@ProcrastinatusMaximus lol, I thought you were back from Italy ;-p
I just had an accident this morning : my car was stopped and got hit from behind by someone who didn't see the line has stopped... my back hurt a little since then. I wish I had a spritz ;-)
 
@Cath we brought some very good homemade limoncello with us :-)
@Cath ai, how's your neck? (in that kind of accidents, your neck is one of the most vulnerable bodyparts)
 
8:17 AM
@ProcrastinatusMaximus yes, my neck and the top of my back hurt :-( I may have to go see a dotcor today or tomorrow if it keeps hurting
 
@Cath you surely should do that, I still feel my neck sometimes as a result of a biking accident I had in 2014
 
@ProcrastinatusMaximus :-( did you try an osteopath ?
maybe something moved somewhere
 
@Cath no, it's more a muscle thing; when it is too bad I go a trigger-point therapist, but mostly I ask my GF to give massage my neck which is mostly enough
 
@SymbolixAU It is harsh. Solution is a solution. User can always check package authors.
 
@ProcrastinatusMaximus I could try that on my husband, except he's not that good a masseur... ;-)
 
8:29 AM
@ProcrastinatusMaximus whiplash is the word.
2
@Cath better get it checked by doctor. Hope it wasn't too bad.
 
@zx8754 i know (the doctor diagnosed it as such then)
 
I only found out about word whiplash after getting phonecalls from insurance scammers, saying "you recently had a whiplash, we can win you a compensation!!!".
 
@zx8754 I had no idea whiplash meant that...I always thought it was just a metallica song :p
4
 
@zx8754 thanks, yes I'll probably go today, just in case. And whiplash is definitely what I got...
@Sotos, did you change your colour ?
 
Nope...still caucasian :)
I see it differently though in different computers
Light green here and dark green on others...
Hmm...also dark green/different pattern from my mobile...
 
8:52 AM
you're unstable ;-)
I used to see you in light yellowish green but now you're plain green. strange
 
In this room I see the light yellowish green but when I click on my name then I see it dark green...
 
same here
 
Strange....
Bias colouring!!!! Hehe
2
 
i've seen it for other color avatars as well (e.g.: nurka)
 
9:14 AM
Some sort of bug I presume... I doubt that it was intentional
 
i'm not sure about that: the shape is also different
 
@ProcrastinatusMaximus you have eyes for details :)
@Sotos did you recently change your colours? Maybe it will take time to get it applied to chat-rooms?
 
@zx8754 no I have never changed it except once 5 months ago when I put a custom picture but I then changed it back to the original avatar
 
This looks like can be simplified into 3-4 lines, unless I am missing something more complex...
 
9:37 AM
@zx8754 Yep, your solution looks fine to me
 
@queen [r] dupes
 
Procrastinatus Maximus scanned 2000 questions between Aug 17 14:54 and Aug 31 11:32 filtered and ordered: 7 in batch 26
 
9:53 AM
@ProcrastinatusMaximus related meta
 
Procrastinatus Maximus Thank you for your effort, you reviewed 7 questions, I counted 7 (100%) close votes and 3 questions closed
 
if someone has a way to do dt[, e:=dt[, eval(parse(text=d)), by=1:nrow(dt)]$V1] without eval(parse..)... (question here)
 
i always read eval(parse...) as evil(parse...) ;-)
5
 
11:02 AM
Is it a new feature, that edited post automatically refreshes, before I think it used to show message it is edited, click refresh?
 
they definitely changed something, sometimes it just keeps refreshing for me when I click in the Q, so I can't select anything
 
@Cath I don't think it's possible because they want to parse the character strings. That's the task parse exists for. Now, why they have character strings they want to parse is a different question.
 
12:40 PM
@Axeman there's a post on meta about this I think
 
12:51 PM
@Tensibai Thanks, found it!
 
TL;DR: the edit websocket message achieve this behavior
@MarcGravell this are the repro steps: Load any question page, for example: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/332200. Let someone else do an edit on that post. Once the websocket message action: "552-question-331817", data: "{"a":"post-edit","id":332200,"acctid":927180}"} is received by you, the post will flicker when clicked. That continues until you reload the page. — rene Aug 26 at 21:16
 
1:50 PM
To be deleted ?
 
2:02 PM
Done
 
delete this almost-dupe of Dirk's answer? stackoverflow.com/a/39249709
@Sotos well, it's closed now, not deleted
btw, hi all
yeah, i vote to del it
 
Howdy @Fran :)
 
:)
@zx8754 isn't data.table relevant to what they're doing here? stackoverflow.com/posts/39246078/revisions if so, besides having it in the title, it should probably also be in the tags
also, this:
When you are doing by = 1:nrow(dt) in R - you are doing it wrong/picked wrong language — David Arenburg 4 hours ago
but of course eval is just as great a crime there
 
2:19 PM
Ah...ok thanks for clarifying @Frank
 
@SymbolixAU sounds right to me. would've been better if he'd initially left instructions on getting it undeleted once you'd fixed the problem, though
@DavidArenburg this reminds me of the "you are dupe-closing x, but not y. bias and ignominy!" line from akrun. surprised to hear it from you and half suspect you're joking. did you flag those?
 
2:33 PM
@Frank I was serious
Never seen a valid answer by a package owner being deleted because there was no disclousure. SO is full of these. This is abuse of power. Simple as that
Look at all the recent answers of Tal Galili- all of them using his package without disclosure stackoverflow.com/users/256662/tal-galili
I don't see any problem with that as long as they are useful
 
eh, mods have a lot to do and solve problems as they find them, i reckon. solving this by deletion may seem harsh, but it's probably also efficient on his end (since he doesn't have to check in again to make sure that the disclosure was added)
 
there is no problem to solve though
he is fighting imaginary windmills
 
72
A: Limits for self-promotion in answers

Jeff AtwoodThanks to everyone who participated in this discussion, particularly Ira. Based on what we've decided in this question, I have updated the /faq on all sites to make it policy: May I promote products I am affiliated with here? The community generally frowns on overt self-promotion and te...

that answer claims to have put this into the faq / help center, but i can't find it anywhere
oh, looking at shog's comment, it's here: stackoverflow.com/help/promotion
 
anyone have a dupe for "shift/lag by group"? i feel like i was just looking at these yesterday stackoverflow.com/q/39252675
never mind, think i found one
 
@Frank They had 5 tags already... I didn't notice the tags at the time, now changed... title was too long, made it shorter, repeating data.table in title twice is a bit too much.
 
@zx8754 ok, thanks, thought i was missing something that made it not specific to the package
 
3:27 PM
First make tibble to get rid of factors, then create forcats to put them back in...
 
@zx8754 i'm confused or perhaps blind. they don't list a post's author on their blog?
 
not to mention the introduction of drop_na() < sigh >
 
seems like writing a new, separate language would be a much better fit for what they want to achieve...
 
@Frank: I'm pretty sure they used to, but it's Hadley ofc
 
ok
 
3:46 PM
I still have a hard time understanding formulas in R ( X ~ Y ) (I don't have an idea how is it supposed to be read in fact
(I know I should ask google for a tutorial :p)
Well, time to go get a beer, evening all
 
4:00 PM
cya, Tens. yeah, i have yet to learn how to properly use formulas
 
4:20 PM
tempted to just reject this. i don't think someone who knows even less than i do about expressions and such should be writing the Docs page on it stackoverflow.com/documentation/proposed/changes/90930#comments
 
4:41 PM
despite the appropriate-sounding name of the dupe target, i think i was wrong here: stackoverflow.com/questions/39252675/… anyone have a better one?
 
@Frank A CRAN package is not "your product"
I don't see how this link is relevant
it's like saying that if Martin Maechler will use the list2env in an answer is a self promotion
 
Maechler
 
fixed. Eitherway, there is no built in API in R to handle Google Maps
All the rest of the answers used external packages too.
does it really matter who wrote them once they are part of CRANs echo-system?
 
4:56 PM
i think there is a gray area. if a microsoft employee comes by and answers a ton of old questions showing how it's done in their "embrace, extend"-style free package, i'd regard that as somewhere between unseemly and deserving of a ban. if i were a mod, i might accidentally come down on the wrong side of judging such cases every so often, which is different from abuse of power
something can be free and still serve a commercial purpose, like a blog, mentioned in shog's answer meta.stackexchange.com/a/57552 and illustrated in that yhat post Dirk linked to today
 
@Frank again, if this something related to "how do I do 1 + 1 in R", I could understand, but if someone would ask "how to develop FPS in R"- I would expect to see some external packages imvolved
and again, blog != CRAN
but I agree that this is sometimes a gray area
though, each time Hadley writes a new packages, all the somewhat remotely questions get new answers with those packges
no one thinks it's odd or some type of a promotion
 
@DavidArenburg heh, well we do
 
the thread I've linked have two answers from Hadley promoting his own packages
should I flag them?
do you think josilber will delete them?
 
the objective seems clearly to be that new users always ask "what would hadley do?" and always have an answer at hand, no matter which direction they turn
@DavidArenburg nope, he won't. maybe he made a mistake in @Symbolix 's case, i don't know the details, but mistakes are a thing that happens when moderating and do not generally imply abuse
maybe he should delete them until attribution is added, but then a twitter mob would ddos attack SO in protest
anyway, if you really think there is an abuse going on, i guess you should be contacting SO about it
 
5:17 PM
I would post a Meta, but I'm tired of it
And I'm not sure I agree with you that he should delete them
people find his packages useful
his two answers there have >100 upvotes
 
well, those preferences are thanks partly to a long-lived ad campaign on behalf of the family of packages, including free online courses (?). sure, they're often useful, but i don't see the line dividing commercial and noncommercial as very well defined. if any posts on SO require disclosures, i think these would as well
anyway, i'd only go as far as to say maybe they should be deleted. i don't have some deeply thought through stance on whether disclosures are necessary or not, i was just saying accusing him of abuse seems unwarranted
 
as always, we will have to agree to disagree I guess
 
yep
 
as we would probably never agree on anything until death do as part
 
heh, well, it's not that hard to change my mind about most things. "abuse of power" has a pretty high evidentiary threshold for me, though
and "you do it to x but not to y" is not very compelling (as you've argued before re akrun and dupes)
 
5:31 PM
with nurka s different
he is trying to answer dupes while no one is watching
while josilber targets a specific new user while some "celeb" user keeps promoting himself all over the site and he doesn't care
 
to clarify: i meant that akrun would accuse you of biased closing by pointing out other questions and saying "hey David, you like to close dupes. how come you didn't close this?!"

i'm guessing looking at new users who post on a bunch of old questions in a short period of time is routine for the mods. if hadley had 1k rep and posted 20 answers in a row linking to newerrr (no idea what the case was for Symbolix), i'm guessing they would have also had some sort of autoflag to look more closely
 
maybe, don't know
 
6:11 PM
@DavidA the data here isn't really so big and their code doesn't take that long stackoverflow.com/q/39255932 however, the thing they're doing is nonsensical. i checked with fsetequal and it's equivalent to myDT[, crit := nchar(A1) + nchar(A2)][order(crit), .SD[-1L], by=fB]
like "i'm going to drop the first entry to attain the min", essentially
with no concern for ties and in complete contrast with (what little sense can be made of) the text of the post
voting to close as a terrible idea
 
@Frank My problem with it is that it is really hard to test code and check desired output on such big data
they could easily reduce it to 100 rows and show desired output
instead of us guessing
 
res = myf(DT); res0 = opf(DT); setcolorder(res, names(res0)); fsetequal(res, res0) is my approach
 
In other words, I don't want to debug their code. I want to see data and desired output and provide a simple solution
 
yeah, i agree
probably best to write an example in terms of n, show the n=10 case for illustration, say that in reality they work with n=bajillion
 
yeah, this is what I did
set.seed(123)
N <- 10
letters_nchar = paste(sample(LETTERS, N, replace=TRUE),
                      sample(LETTERS, N, replace=TRUE), sep="")
myDT <- data.table(id = sample(N),
                   fB = sample(seq_len(N/10), size= N, replace=TRUE),
                   A1 = c(sample(LETTERS, N/2, replace=TRUE),
                          sample(letters_nchar, N/2, replace=TRUE)),
                   A2 = c(sample(LETTERS, N/2, replace=TRUE),
                          sample(letters_nchar, N/2, replace=TRUE)))
but then I've looked at their code and lack of desired output and decided to move on
I'm too tired for code review
 
6:24 PM
desired output is op's function's return value, i guess. i'd skip because their problems go deeper than simply having unoptimized code. their objective also seems ill-conceived
 
6:49 PM
@Frank you can judge for yourself, but imo @SymbolixAU hasn't done anything real bad that deserved an immediate deletion of his answer(s); the disclosure that he is the author of the googleway package is in his profile (and if remember it correctly already for quite some time)
 
@ProcrastinatusMaximus ok, but i think deletion doesn't imply "real bad" and Symbolix seems fine with sorting this out with the mods, so why make it into a big thing?
 
no worries, i don't want to make this into a big thing; the above discussion has given @SymbolixAU enough ammunition to try to sort things out with the mods imo
 
yeah, my complaint was essentially that David was elevating this to "abuse of power"
 
that's indeed put quite a bit too bold I guess
 
question: what the heck is rbernoulli doing inside purrr? i thought hadley was pursuing the "one objective, one package" approach these days. sampling seems to have nothing to do with list iteration / functional programming
(seeing it here: stackoverflow.com/q/39256701 )
 
7:06 PM
It's sampling from a purrrnouli trial.
2
 
heh, must be
 
rbernoulli?
 
looking forward to an rrrrrr package
@ProcrastinatusMaximus function for random bernoulli draws
 
oh nvm, now i see it
 
re your question in the other room, i'm guessing the majority opinion on drop_na & fct_* is something like "they're not terribly useful functions on their own, and while they were designed to be more useful in the context of pipes, pipes are the worst, so..."
 
7:12 PM
not completely surprised, both seem a bit redundant to me
I also don't why Hadleys create a new package for each problem
 
He knows he's popular, so he probably just thinks to himself, "Let's make something useless and see what happens." Then he just sits back and laughs it up as people think it's awesome cuz, well Hadley duh, and he gets a million downloads.
That's what I'd do anyway ... haha
 
Your questions is equivalent to "Is there is a big difference between pineapple, Apple Inc. and applause?" — David Arenburg 2 hours ago
 
After reading her profile, I am gonna go out on a limb and say that English is not her native language.
 
@ProcrastinatusMaximus in principle, it's better that stuff be modular like in python, i guess is his thinking. also, he needs to rewrite everything because his contribution is "grammar", innit
 
7:28 PM
"I lost my code". That's a good one
 
could be, but 3 packages for importing data? a bit over the top if you ask me
 
oh? only readr comes to mind
i guess the DB backend one (whatever that's called) is another, but doesn't really have much overlap
 
also haven & readxl
 
@ProcrastinatusMaximus yeah, i don't see much overlap or benefit from putting those together in one package
unless the maintainers were super on top of things and keeping all the pieces up-to-date, as with data.table
and you probably need all sorts of weird things for haven and readxl that you wouldn't want to burden someone who's just after reading csvs with...
 
Thoughts on this? I think adding spaces to the data to align the matrix columns is a terrible idea.
 
7:38 PM
huh, thought the haven package was a lot older than it is. could've sworn there was some "haven for people leaving stata" package when i started learning r
 
@Frank This guy is the true definition of the XY problem
every single question he focuses on the solution rather the problem. I'm losing patience with him
 
yeah
 
Haha, why do you ask?
@DirtySockSniffer Good point, thanks. (You are Richard Scriven, aren't you.) — Zheyuan Li 1 min ago
 
7:55 PM
oof, some very fugly data here: stackoverflow.com/q/39257915
 
 
1 hour later…
8:57 PM
It would be nice if you could subset example(), so that when there are many examples you could quickly go to a specific one.
 
agreed, I usually end up copypasting
hardly ever actually use example()
 
you probably could by digging a bit in the source code
 
I used to use it a ton when I was learning R
 
yeah, i like example(), but never use it these days. would be nice if a jupyter notebook of examples were bundled with a package
 
Agree, or dupe
 
yeah, if anyone's generous enough to google it for them
those answers are even more generous than i'd had in mind. probably still deserves a dupe close, though
 
9:33 PM
@Frank I linked one in the comments. Already voted on it
 
noticing that Dirk also keeps the prompts, R>
same, already voted
 
9:55 PM
@Frank I already have enough trouble convincing students and colleagues to use script over console
 
@Axeman meaning you don't want to introduce jupyter notebook, you mean?
 
@Frank Most of the people use RStudio around my neck of the woods.
Some of the oldies use terminal
 
oh, huh. would expect oldies to have learned the benefits of saving commands in a script
 
Should I introduce Jupyter btw? Never used it.
 
morning all - thanks for all the advice/discussion regarding my post deletions.
 
10:27 PM
hi Symbolix, yeah, hope you can sort / have sorted it out
@Axeman i think it's good for learning. it has the code and the output both in the same page, along with markdown notes, all scrollable and editable in a web browser window. i found it useful in learning some python, but i'd never use it for writing a real program
 

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