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3:00 PM
Then I should stop using it
 
grumble overflow
 
:-P
 
Yeah I'd just turn off the computer if I were you Bob.
 
@Freddy and because this is all very confusing, you should a) stop using Python 2, b) forget it ever existed.
 
@PM2Ring this looks very promising, thanks :)
 
3:00 PM
Python 2 or 3? If you need to ask, use Python 3.
21
 
@Meaty Good luck! FWIW, a simple way to play two or more sounds simultaneously is to convert the samples to raw wave data and then average those waves together into a single data stream. It's a bit slow if you're doing it with Python loops, but I guess it'd be fast enough if you were using Numpy. OTOH, you might as well use a dedicated library that does that sort of thing.
 
Talking about PHP - wtf is this person doing: upwork.com/jobs/_~015cfe9002bbdb9d5a
 
can't see
 
Sure, but I still have around half a year to finish the project so I could try both versions to see which one works better :)
 
can't sign up to all freelance services that I'm not going to use.
 
3:02 PM
@JonClements access restricted, image pls :(
 
@AnttiHaapala actually from day 1 I was confused between python 2 and 3. Most of courses were in python 2 so i..
 
Oh weird... anyway - they want Python scripts converted to PHP so they can run as cron jobs :)
 
@JonClements Woo, free money.
 
They can't run python scripts from cron?
 
@JonClements uhhhh what?
So how much do you charge them for the time spent explaining that Python can be run from cron too?
 
3:04 PM
2 week job I'd say.
 
They'll thank you profusely for saving them X hours of labor and then pay you nothing because "you didn't fulfill the specific terms of the contract"
 
@Ffisegydd oh... I was thinking at 6-8
 
<?php
`python script.py`
There done
 
2 weeks on discovery.
After 2 weeks I'll have put together my report on the fact that php and python both exist.
 
Then they'd be the expenses involved in once realising PHP does exist the therapy needed to try and forget about it...
 
3:07 PM
Just say you've written a transparent code proxy that sees the cron job call to python, and automatically translates it to php and runs it against the php binary instead. And that's why they see python in their crontab.
And the licence costs for that proxy aren't cheap holds out hand
 
@Jon don't even get me started on the difference between 2 and 3. That's a good 6 months.
 
I estimate it should cost around $5k and take 2-3 months.
 
Morgan we need to discuss your rates.
 
@MorganThrapp wow - that's cheap
 
@Meaty pydub has a nice api
 
DSM
How can you know what cron jobs are and think they're only for PHP codes? I'm genuinely puzzled.
 
@davidism thanks, looks very simple :)
 
@JonClements Well, once you factor in overtime and unexpected costs, it's going to run closer to $20k, but gotta make sure you get that low bid in even if you can't possibly do it for that much.
 
I mean compared to some modules I tried to use before lol
 
@DSM The "knows just enough to be dangerous" zone is wide enough to contain an entire IT department.
 
3:10 PM
and moviepy if you need to manipulate video
 
@MorganThrapp if only we were evil MBA grads and actually thought this was an okay thing to do
 
Ha, yeah, if.
 
can I convert audio to a video file using just the two?
 
most likely
 
I mean just like some background and text, nothing special
cool, I'll try it, thanks :)
 
SoPyCon UK, you are as far away as ever
 
@RobertGrant Who, when, and where?
 
Can go to Chelts or Oxfs or something.
Tomorrow, Sunday or Monday?
 
I'm busy Sunday but that's it.
 
3:15 PM
@JRichardSnape @JonClements @anyoneelse ?
Get tristan over; he's probably in the UK about now. That or he's just moved to Thailand or something.
 
@RobertGrant no can do right now :*(
 
@MartijnPieters as well, though he's a bit further away I think
 
Your timing sucks fyi
 
We did say April 31st.
 
3:19 PM
Excellent, I'll just wait until they switch from the Gregorian calendar
 
It's not that far from Edinburgh to Brum.
We could make it more central for Northerners.
 
We did say seriously end of April, but it was a while ago we said it :)
 
@MorganThrapp you were the final cv on that...
 
@davidism Oh. :P It wasn't closed when I linked it. Someone must've closed it as I did and it didn't refresh right or something.
 
3:20 PM
Haha, it's fine guys. Nothing I could do if it's the end of April, simply because I'm not going to be in the UK for the next wee bit.
 
When do you leave or have you already left?
 
I leave on Sunday, but I've got far too much to get organised to take a wee jaunt down South
 
Yeah come down now, stay the night at mine and we'll go meet others tomorrow
 
Pffft
 
So I'm sadfacing, and will look forward SoPyCon '17
 
3:23 PM
We should all aim to go PyCon UK.
 
Is it 100% confirmed yet?
 
Well it's not as though we're saying anyone who doesn't instantly drop plans and come and meet us is a dick!
But we are thinking it.
 
@IntrepidBrit 2016.pyconuk.org
I'm saying it, just not typing it.
 
Suh-weet.
 
Wow, that banner is way better than PyCon US's.
 
3:24 PM
I'll definitely look into buying some tix when I get back
 
No announcement on agenda yet.
 
are puppies allowed to PyCon? Or is one of you going to have to put sun glasses on, get a white stick and we go from there? :p
 
PyCon UK 2016 is proud to announce Fizzy and Bobby Consulting as the keynote sponsors.
 
@Ffisegydd You're doing a talk on gin based design patterns, right?
 
@MorganThrapp Is that the one that starts off really great, then just descends into chaos? :p
 
3:27 PM
Something like that. It'll definitely involve gin.
 
Achievements today: finally got OAuth working nicely with Robocorp's stack, and we got a load of 27" monitors delivered for super coding speed.
 
I thought it was about optimising Ballmer Peak using gin
 
I'm downloading the SO data dump.
 
@Ffisegydd I'm thinking nginx
 
Hoping to get it into a graph database.
 
3:28 PM
Driving home now - @ me if jrs replies!
Be on later anyway
Rbrb
 
Ciaobarb
 
@JonClements Probably. I just want the slides afterwards.
 
Dom
tickets only £96 lol
that's more than twice as much as PyCharm...
 
@Dom For 4 days?
Do you really think that's excessive?
 
I had fun today. I bought an AC600 WiFi USB thingy that comes with driver source, and managed to compile it for 3 Linux distros: Mepis 11 & 2 flavours of Puppy Linux.
 
3:35 PM
That is insanely cheap for a conference.
 
Dom
Ahh I thought it was one day, still, factoring in travel costs and time not working it could cost £300 - £500
 
Most conferences start their prices around that, without factoring those things in.
 
Dom
I guess it keeps out the riff-raff like myself :)
 
Wow, that is really cheap, PyCon US was $300 for the early bird signup.
Not counting the train ticket there, hotel for a week and a half, and plane ticket back.
 
Heh. Strata London is £1600 for 2 days.
 
3:39 PM
Wow, conferences are seriously expensive for working people.
 
@MorganThrapp The last slide being left on screen as Fizzy falls off the stage shouting at people, and Bobby G has to stagger around trying to pick him up and avoid the audience? :p
 
Luckily, as a dropout, I can still call myself a student and get away with it.
 
My "slides" will just be Chrome open to sopython chat.
 
with pictures of rabbits?
 
Dom
What do you actually get from it though?
 
3:40 PM
No it'll literally just be Chrome open with chat showing in real time.
Depends on the level you choose
 
Need to do a presentation Twitch style, with a facecam, live comments, and donation alerts.
 
You guys don't even know how much I have to cough up for the conference in the states.
 
I plan on throwing cabbages at the crowd.
@Intrepid $3000?
For the ticket that is.
Not including your expenses.
Oh man those prices don't even include VAT.
 
Nope, only around $2500
So £95? Bloody bargain
 
What's the conference on?
 
3:44 PM
Batteries
 
You're so cool.
 
Sounds electrifying.
 
You have no idea.
 
I wonder if you have to 3d print them ;)
 
One day we will Games, one day we will
Especially when the sugar based batteries get going
 
Dom
3:47 PM
@Ffisegydd eye-watering...
I want a real python in my goodie bag for that price
 
@Ffisegydd I can keep posting images of puppies, and @poke can keep posting images of rabbits and you can claim that programming Python "keeps you sane" (while throwing cabbages!") - genuis! It's going to be a show stopper!
 
what are you going to do with a real python?
 
Is this a dupe of this? (If so do we reverse hammer?)
Because the former has better answers.
 
Teach it to code.
 
@JonClements I'd watch it.
 
3:51 PM
a python that writes python, call it pypy. ;)
 
Dom
@GamesBrainiac Ssssell it and get my money back, after putting it to work for a year or two as Ffisegydd suggests
 
In other news, I'm very mad that I don't have this alcoholic cookies and cream milkshake in front of me.
 
@Morgan if it makes you feel better (it won't though) I literally have all of those ingredients not 10 steps away from me.
Guess what I'm going to make now.
 
Grrrrrrr.
 
It's almost as if I intentionally told you this.
 
4:01 PM
I have them all at home.
 
To cause you pain.
 
But that doesn't help me for ~6 hours.
God you're lucky you're pretty.
 
I know.
 
I'm just waiting for them to finish poip. (punching over ip).
 
4:06 PM
 
Btw, I'm planning a stag do. Any ideas for tasty (and horrendous) vodka infusions?
I'm currently looking at making cherry vodka, gherkin vodka and skittles vodka
 
@IntrepidBrit I like jalapeno infused vodka. (though it's better with tequila).
 
Was debating haggis vodka, but I don't know if I can handle it.
 
@MorganThrapp that's just evil
 
4:09 PM
'GHERKIN!? wat' + '!' * sys.maxint
 
@davidism :D
 
I had some jalapeno infused vodka at the barracks in Newcastle. One lad instantly spewed and then was ordered to clean up.
 
The Gherkin vodka has "historical significance": the first ever batch I made was in 1st year at Uni. I had some drinking buddies who were annoyingly good at holding their booze...
 
4:11 PM
Matcha infused vodka. Now that's inspired
I could drink that until the cows came home and the others would cry green powder.
 
I've also seen it done with Lapsang Souchong.
 
Mmm, burnt rope tea
 
Also, if you want to get fancy with the gherkin vodka, this cocktail calls for cucumber vodka.
 
@IntrepidBrit remind me to be very careful if we ever meet up for a drink or two... I can hold my own... but trying to drink with a Scot is dodgy at the best of times - especially if you're inventing such concoctions...
 
No, room 6, I don't spend too much time reading about cocktails/alcohol, what are you talking about.
 
4:15 PM
Shame you can't spend the next 6 hours enjoying a certain cocktail.
 
@RobertGrant If you punch fizzy on Sunday for me, I'll ship you your choice of alcohol.
 
Sweet. Punch me and we can split it.
 
Dom
sorry just have to post this: "The study was inspired by the case of McArthur Wheeler, a man who robbed two banks after covering his face with lemon juice in the mistaken belief that, because lemon juice is usable as invisible ink, it would prevent his face from being recorded on surveillance cameras."
 
I'm almost impressed.
 
Worked the first time.
 
4:20 PM
@JonClements The best way to drink me under the table is with beers and ciders. I'm better at holding spirits (compared to other people). Don't let me buy absinthe.
 
Dom
That takes idiot to a new level for me. Even the least intelligent person I've met wouldn't do that.
 
@IntrepidBrit Oooo, I'd love to have an absinthe off.
 
@MorganThrapp Neat or properly done?
 
@IntrepidBrit I prefer it with the sugar, but I'm not opposed to neat.
My favorite is in a sazerac, but that's only a tiny splash.
Also, you should get this for your friend who can't handle the jalapeno vodka. ;)
Ghost chili sake. :D
 
Not tried it with sazerac, will try next time in the Hanging Bat.
 
4:25 PM
@IntrepidBrit It's a fantastic cocktail. One of my favorites.
The trick is a nice spicy rye.
 
4:41 PM
That's enough for me. Since it's my GF's retirement weekend it looks like I'll have to forego SOPyCon wherever you hold it - have a good one! Rhubarb, all
 
rhubarb holden
 
Rbrb, holden.
 
Is 200MB of storage a lot for an app with a small, fake database?
 
I love when companies do stuff like double-release their product with both GPL2 and a Commercial Licence, and then say stuff like "Oh yeah, you can use GPL2 for open source products only, otherwise you need to pay top dollar!" which is such utter lies.
If I don't distribute the code that uses your product, I don't have to open source my own code.
 
4:47 PM
@RobertGrant: that's all a little too short notice for me, sorry :-(
@JonClements: you thought any more about that contract thingy I talked about last week?
 
Yeah was taking advantage of last-minute freedom this weekend :)
 
@IntrepidBrit: you contracting these days, by the ways?
 
been a bit busy - but yeah... wouldn't mind a chat to see how it'd go :)
 
This one company are so evasive in their AGPL/Commercial Licence that to download it for "open source purposes only" from their website you have to fill in forms. Thankfully as it's double licensed they have to release the source code somehow so you can just build it yourself from GH :D
 
I hate it when ppl use GPL/AGPL as a business strategy
 
4:52 PM
I'm not a fan of GPL/AGPL/LGPL in the first place.
 
I prefer MIT or Apache.
And the final best best part: those forms that I mentioned try to tie you into an evaluation licence that explicitly states "The license agreement below grants you the right to evaluate DERPAHERP for your application, without being subjected to any open source terms."
 
user6025378
i am a big fan of MIT license
 
Yup. MIT for me. If you think my code is useful, use it. Don't blame me if it reformats your hard drive. If you really like it, buy me a beer.
 
It's just the Copyleft part that does me in.
 
4:59 PM
@JonClements I can only agree with that.
 
@MartijnPieters I am! 2016 is looking good thus far :)
I quite like Copyleft, but for some reason can't get clients to agree with it ;)
 
I really hate it when people put huge chunks of HTML in their questions :|
 
Bleh, this 72 character regex fails a new test case. I'd like to blame regex, but I suppose it's kinda my fault too.
 
@Ffisegydd clearly you want programmers to be paid, you monster
 
@RobertGrant Actually I just want to use others work for the benefit of FizzyCorp.
 
5:10 PM
That's fine. We all want that!
As long as FizzyCorp remains a wholly-owned subsidiary of FizzyBob Consulting
 
wtfpl is also a good license wtfpl.net
 
@IntrepidBrit ah, so you are not open to a new contract in London at the moment :-D
Looks like Jon is filling in there anyway (but I can ask if there is need for more)
 
FBBFFs!
 
5:33 PM
@RobertGrant nope, lystable.com
 
Heh that's cool!
 
@RobertGrant: I didn't bother you coz I thought you'd be in SA right now.
 
Nah UK now, but your main problem is I'm still a Python noob who you shouldn't recommend :)
 
okay :-)
 
Hey, I have a question. I'm a junior developer and even more junior with Python. I have a side project I'm starting and I'm torn between implementing a MVP or actually implementing a more full blown complex software.
 
5:37 PM
One day.
 
What should I be more focused on?
 
user559633
@SeanParsons Do you primarily want to learn or do you want to release something? Choose one.
 
@MorganThrapp damn you, made me laugh out loud on a train chuck full of commuters.
 
Always learn
 
user559633
@SeanParsons Then do something "full blown/complex."
 
5:38 PM
@MartijnPieters Heheh.
 
And i'm very good and not losing interest, I notice thats a big thing with developers.
@tristan Thank you!
 
user559633
If you want to release the side project. MVP. Going into the project thinking it will be huge means you'll restart the project multiple times as you learn your lessons.
 
user559633
no problem at all @SeanParsons -- not sure i've seen you in the room, so, welcome
 
I'm pretty new to Python, I made the choice to leave node.js and use Python as my backend language etc..
 
Uploading packages to pypi is such a headache… It's like a Russian roulette, you never know when something will go wrong. Currenlty stuck with both twine / setup.py upload rejecting my username/password I just used to log in on the website :/
 
5:40 PM
So I thought it was right to join a python chatroom.
 
Welcome to the light side.
 
DSM
Ah, "minimum viable product".
 
Yeah, I'm happy with my choice, Node was starting to get on my nerves.
 
user559633
i thought about releasing an MVP a couple years back. this weekend i'm going to be "perfecting" my NLP chunkers.
 
@Ffisegydd Find ya name here :P meta.stackexchange.com/questions/278910/…
 
5:44 PM
@BhargavRao commented.
 
Wow. That is an impressive question.
 
"Ma! I'm famous!" — Ffisegydd 22 secs ago
Python room mentioned, Let's assemble! (From Suomi mainittu, torilla tavataan)
 
user559633
>How are the chat rooms decided to appear.
 
user559633
 
"3 Billion devices run Java" Yes. And they only took 10 trillion lines of code.
Damn you Maven!
 
5:51 PM
Maven's pretty good
He says having never actually used it from scratch
 
Not really Maven's fault, I'm sure it is good.
I'm just using windows.
 
user559633
Java on Windows. Day 3: I do not remember the warmth of happiness
6
 
Is it harder on Windows?
 
Okay that didn't just make me go "heh", didn't just make me chuckle ruefully, that made me continually snicker for a good 10 seconds.
 
user559633
Java: Requires more patterns than a knitting circle
 
5:54 PM
FizzyGirl wants to know what I'm laughing at.
What do?
 
Say "Let's get FizzyGirl"
 
user559633
 
Brave. Brave to go for the same gif two days on the trot.
@Robert I once had issues where the directory name length was too long for Windows.
So because you have quite long names in Java a lot of the time, Windows literally couldn't handle it.
 
user559633
 
PEPPER NEEDS NEW SHORTS.
 
user559633
5:56 PM
Windows ME (millennial) edition literally couldn't even handle it.
 
How many parameters is too many?
I'm up to 9 on this function, and I feel dirty.
 
Oh dear sweet and fluffy lord this cocktail is good.
 
user559633
@MorganThrapp your code should only be 20 chars wide.
 
@Morgan depends. Things in pandas can be hench.
 
DSM
@MorganThrapp: depends. Sometimes.
aargh, Kevin'd by Fizzy
 
user559633
6:01 PM
you should just reference a global var from the inside of the function. no params required.
 
@Ffisegydd So, I should make it when I get home?
 
@MorganThrapp Make one at work.
 
user559633
jesus sometimes it's like you guys don't even think of things on a global level
 
@tristan That uh, may have been what I was doing until I started getting this test suite going.
I am not a smart man.
@Ffisegydd That good?
 
user559633
/me angrily scratches off morgan from his "to hire" list. gets extra sad when realizing it was on a computer screen
 
6:03 PM
:(
 
user559633
what are the params? if some of the params are just like "extra attrs for a previous param", that's usually when i use a dict/tuple/list
 
user559633
e.g. def feed_cats(time, food_attrs)....; feed_cats('morning', {'type':'wet', 'flavor': 'fish', 'quantity':'until they stop biting me'})
 
@tristan exactly - 6 params at the most
 
It's (database, lookup, data_source, another_data_source, files_to_write_to, more_data, status_object, more_data_two, id).
 
user559633
ultimately depends if there's a reasonable expectation for positional args in the function signature or if it's fair to except .get(x, default)
 
6:06 PM
I could definitely combine the data sources, now that I think about it.
 
user559633
(database, file_object="", data_sources=[], data_whatever_more_is_you_variable_naming_monster)
 
I mean, the real signature is _process_record(database, rates, parcel, address, files, tax_details, status, excluded_sections, current_id)
 
user559633
yesterday, by tristan
I would have written a shorter variable name, but I did not have the time.
 
So it's a little saner with the names.
 
user559633
gotta say that i'm a little sad that my gifs are more appreciated than pascal paraphrasing
 
user559633
6:08 PM
_hush_this_method_is_secret_SHH
 
DSM
I liked it so much, tristan, that yesterday I spent ten minutes finding out about the origins of the phrase. "Je n’ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n’ai pas eu le loisir de la faire plus courte."
 
wow so much Foreignese
 
user559633
@DSM I first came across it in a C++ book by Bjarne and got sad because I chalked his ability to express himself as another thing he's better than me at. Then I got sad on another level as I realized that he's also better read.
 
DSM
The size of your typical C++ book is more revealing about the language than its content.
 
Alright, I got it down to 7. I think this is better.
 
DSM
6:13 PM
@MorganThrapp: if you have that many arguments, I'd consider making them keyword-only.
 
@DSM Really? Even if they're all required?
 
9 required vars might be a bit much, but if you need it then you need it.
 
DSM
With that many arguments I tend to make mistakes on the order. I'm less likely to write tax_details=new_status than I am new_status, new_details accidentally.
 
> # Checking how frequently packages with misspelled names are downloaded.
> # The issue will be reported to PyPI at the end of the test.
> urlopen('http://94.140.120.197/counter/smplejson.html')
 
6:16 PM
@Ffisegydd I mean, it's 7 now, but yeah.
 
Should you be passing in a config dict instead?
 
DSM
@Kentzo: I was wondering why you named the package like that! Makes a lot of sense now.
 
Basically, this function gets called for each record of an iterable that's generated/filtered by its caller, so it passes in all the data from the record, plus some static stuff.
Maybe the static stuff should be a config dict.
 
@DSM I wonder how many packages on pypi for fishing purposes
 
user559633
I actually grabbed the easy_install namespace because I saw someone trying to pip install easy_install.
 
6:18 PM
fishing?
 
user559633
I meant to have it spit out a userwarning of best practices around packaging/virtualenv, but then reality hit
 
I assume he means phishing.
 
ah yeah :)
 
Not actual fishing :P
 
my guess too, but I was unsure:)
who knows what python can do for you
 
6:19 PM
should excuse my English here :)
 
it's OK, it's not even English:P
 
user559633
@Kentzo no, you're good.
 
It's like saying wiphi. Not incorrect, just people won't understand;)
 
Yeah don't worry about it :)
 
also, I'm not trying to be an asshole, honest
 
6:19 PM
They're literally pronounced exactly the same, but thought I'd point out the distinction for the future (in case you get confused :P)
 
I'm a weird Eastern European, so I shouldn't diss anybody for their English, even if I wanted to
which I don't
 
user559633
I'm a weird American. Maybe we could have a beer and argue about NATO like the good ol days.
 
Yeah, I ended up building a dict and using that instead of a million parameters.
This is why I hang out here.
 
@tristan How about having a NATO and arguing about beer? I don't like beer.
 
DSM
We've had people who don't drink at all here, so I guess it would be wrong to kickban Andras for that.
 
user559633
6:22 PM
I don't drink. edit: Water.
 
only little water, right?
 
user559633
fish fuck in it
 
@DSM Then I can safely disclose that I rarely drink at all:P
well, I like some fruity spirits if must
and ciders, but I assume those don't count
 
I don't drink alcohol at all, if that makes you feel any better.
 
So the other day I decided to do something weird: github.com/GreatFruitOmsk/qrc_pathlib Path/PurePath for Qt's Qt Resource System.
 
6:26 PM
@AndrasDeak Nothing wrong with cider.
 
6:46 PM
is seek no-op for sys.stdout?
 
Has anyone used redux before with success?
or flux like architecture?
 
user559633
redux, the javascript thing from react?
 
Well, it's popular with react but It can be used as a stand alone piece of software for state management.
I was just asking because I was thinking of including that in this side project and wanted to see about the upfront investment of learning it.
 
You might have better luck in the javascript room.
 
user559633
i've never heard of redux or flux in the context of python. maybe because we don't talk that much about client-side applications
 
6:54 PM
I've heard of reflux.
 
user559633
flux, you mean MVC when written correctly?
 
Oh, sorry. I do full stack development and I made the wrong assumption that everyone here also was doing front end development as well.
 
I don't do anything with the web.
 
Really, what kind of stuff do you do? @MorganThrapp
 
user559633
@SeanParsons a non-small number of us do "full stack" (meaning js, webdev, backend and calling it "full stack"), but we don't really talk about JS in here otherwise people would feel validated in trying to get us to talk about JS
 
6:57 PM
one day I should google all these things programmers talk about, also in the SO dev survey
 
@SeanParsons Lots of database/data conversion work.
 
such as "full stack development"
 
Some in house desktop apps.
 
I find it hard to just do that? what kind of application is feeding off of the data and backend your building.
 
user559633
People toss around "full stack" and I've even been billed as a "full stack programmer", but I didn't touch assembly or hardware even once in that role.
 
6:59 PM
More desktop apps.
 

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