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Ell
4:00 PM
can I get the runtime size of a variable?
 
@AlfPSteinbach Oh nice.
@DzekTrek reason for posting?
 
@Ell What other kind of size is there?
 
I just don't like people ganging up on someone.
 
Ell
@Potatoswatter compile time?
 
Oh, I understand now. No, you can't. It's a language hole.
 
4:01 PM
@sehe Opportunity to all of you to listen to a good music? :|
 
@DzekTrek We all have the opportunity to go places filled with random music if we want to :)
 
Ell
oh
 
dynamic_cast< void * > will get you a pointer to the beginning of the object, and typeid() will get you an object which could tell you about the size, but they won't go there.
 
@sehe but can you code/learn and listen to a good music at the same time, like you do here?
 
@DzekTrek If your music player is technically tied to posting links in a chat room, perhaps you should create a chatroom for your player. I mean, I delete all the links that my MP3 player automatically creates :)
 
Ell
4:06 PM
@Potatoswatter okay thank you
 
np, sorry I can't be more help
 
@Ell I think that question has been asked a number of times on SO and I've seen fairly useful answers to them. There will never be an exact answer, though (unless you roll your own allocator that tracks actual memory usage)
 
Nah, I don't use any MP3 player, it's just my free will to post something here worth of seeing/hearing.
 
Hey, fellas.
 
Oh, if you don't care about portability, I think I read once that MSVC's std::typeinfo class does have size information.
 
4:07 PM
You might want to weigh in on the discussion taking place here:
10
Q: The Great Question Deletion Audit of 2012

Robert HarveyIn the spirit of The Great Question Deletion Audit of 2010, I give you the great question deletion audit of 2012. These are basically all of the highly-voted questions on the first "Most Votes" page that, if asked today, would quickly be closed as Not Constructive (this is not a complete list):...

 
Oh, finally their opportunity to go on a Nazi jihad against Code Golf, huh?
 
Ell
@sehe its okay its not important, it was more of a curiosity
anyway im off
 
@RobertHarvey Why delete the C++ book one? It's linked very commonly in C++ questions
 
@Pubby That's why you should weigh in.
Have a look at the Tag Wiki discussions there.
The consensus seems to be: Main site, AARGH; Tag Wikis, begrudgingly OK.
 
@RobertHarvey Why would you like to delete anything? I mean, people really worked on making great posts to be visible to all the upcoming generations as a great tool in the confront with ignorance, not only for the current stop issue solving.
 
4:14 PM
I think it's not a big problem to delete it
we have our own wiki now, we can just link to that
 
I didn't start the discussion; someone else did. This was my effort to give the community some voice. But so far, only mods have weighed in with any substantial discourse.
 
@DeadMG Are you talking about the chat wiki?
 
7
Q: Deleting questions is usually harmful overkill; we need a new alternative

Jeremy Banks ʬʬʬThere has been a lot of debate about deleted posts over the years. The classic example is the old discussion about handling old popular posts, upon which consensus has never been reached and the opinion of the majority has varied over time (deletion is currently favoured). More recent is Pekka's ...

 
yes
 
And the mods are (for the most part) aggressively deletionist.
 
4:15 PM
Well is there any reason why SO couldn't have its own (non-tag) wiki?
 
@RobertHarvey That's truly sad.
 
@RobertHarvey well, if you want my $0.02, the C++ definitive books one is very commonly linked to, and you'll break a huge number of C++ questions if you delete it. However, I have no intention of setting my feet on Meta, so you won't get a formal answer from me on that. :)
 
That's too bad. These questions are flagged periodically. Without some push-back, eventually they will all be gone.
 
@RobertHarvey no, really... You don't say.... It's sad that moderators think they're curators
 
So all our effort of making great programming knowledge database drops in water. I thought things worked differently here.
 
4:18 PM
Mods only act in response to flags. If someone flags, and a mod agrees, they act.
 
@RobertHarvey yep, that is too bad. But it's not my problem. If SE wants to run SO into the ground, I can't do anything about that. Pushing back against the meta police is more trouble than it's worth
@RobertHarvey yes, but someone will flag anything. You'd think it was the job of moderators to think about whether the flag makes sense
 
> I don't see the need to delete. The quality of the site will be determined by the accessibility of the good information. Just the good stuff will float to the surface: it is the Way the Web Works. I'd suggest starting deleting at the other end (the ones with most downvotes...)
 
It's not productive for the users of SO to delete stuff and alter history. I do not fully understand to whom it is advantageous, and how. But I think, SO as a site is not worth fighting for, it's not good enough.
The chat though...
 
and right now, moderators are practically recruited based on their desire to shape SE sites, their obsession with deleting content, and their urge to be in control
 
It's one of the best darned chats around.
 
4:19 PM
I'd love to change that, but I don't see how
 
Why not just disable the flag option on locked questions?
 
Mods are just another link in the chain, we need to plead a head not to delete them. It will be great contribution to the upcoming generations, plus cost of the servers will drop significantly in the years to follow, and they will have something worth of proud.
 
Meta is a breeding ground for this nonsense, and I'm done with it
6
 
@AlfPSteinbach Agreed.
 
@AlfPSteinbach bit of a selfish argument. The chat is more useful to you. For 95+% of the population, the reverse will be true.
 
4:20 PM
hm
 
I think the problem is, relatively simply, that SO only does Q&A
and quite simply, there's a hell of a lot of useful, even necessary, content which doesn't fit that format
the tag wikis are way too gimped to serve as a useful place to put them
 
I don't think anyone even reads tag wikis
 
well, they suck
they can hardly store any information, and what they do store is hardly ever seen
if they were made actual full wikis, then it would be much easier to put things there and refer back to them and such
 
@RobertHarvey If SO needs us to push back against the moderators in order for useful content to survive, then it is already broken beyond repair. If you want to do anything about this, then you'll have to take it to those higher in the food chain. I'll happily provide feedback if anyone cares to listen, but reining in the absurd meta tyranny that SO has become is just not my battle to fight.
3
 
sbi
OMG, what hove those pesky mods done wrong now again?
 
4:25 PM
@sbi They want to delete C++ book question :'(
 
sbi
@Pubby Damn. How stupid. Any meta discussion about it yet?
 
@sbi afaik, nothing right now (other than pissing off @alf for), but they're looking for thnigs to delete for meta-cred, I guess
19 mins ago, by Robert Harvey
10
Q: The Great Question Deletion Audit of 2012

Robert HarveyIn the spirit of The Great Question Deletion Audit of 2010, I give you the great question deletion audit of 2012. These are basically all of the highly-voted questions on the first "Most Votes" page that, if asked today, would quickly be closed as Not Constructive (this is not a complete list):...

 
@sbi I thought you where getting all old English, then worked out it was a typo :P
 
sbi
@thecoshman Oops.
 
@sbi :D
 
4:29 PM
This would be really bad move for all. What benefits would be gained if they commit deletion of the great Q. except that many less people will hear for SO once they search/look for something on the search engines.
 
sbi
Here, have fun while I post a scalding answer to that question on meta about deleting the book question. Please be prepared to upvote me plenty, so that I don't dig myself in too deep...
 
For the note, I personally heard for SO searching for good c++ books on the google, which dropped me here where I am now.
 
Oh my. Remember my .NET dependencies answer earlier? The op responded:
> That looks cool, but as we already have NDepend in use in our company its the quicker and more effecient way for me, but thanks for your detailed explanations on this !
Well, blimey! What was that question about then?!
 
would any one happen to have a server I can 'borrow' to tunnel groveshark through?
 
@thecoshman what for/is that? Ah Music. Why is it blocked? If it got blocked by bandwith monitoring/packet inspection, you'll get nowhere
 
4:33 PM
Why would you do that? @thecoshman Use proxies instead.
 
@sehe grooveshark is a music streaming service that now charges in ireland
 
@thecoshman That way. Dump them?
 
work block proxy sites :(
 
':(
 
@thecoshman how strange. life is really tough :)
 
4:36 PM
@sehe I know! how am I supposed to work if they monitor what work I am doing?
 
do you have your own laptop?
 
@thecoshman Hmmm. That's not actually the case, you know. If they monitor my internet usage they'd actually be monitoring what work I'm not doing.
 
@DzekTrek I do...
 
@thecoshman use it instead, link it to connection slot and voila.
 
say what?
 
4:39 PM
they block only modem-pc connection, not highway connection( which is open for anything )
 
wait, no, I have my own PC I mean, not laptop. and work, of course, make use of proxie already ¬_¬
 
Can someone get this The Great Question Deletion Audit of 2012 on the star board?
 
15
Q: The Great Question Deletion Audit of 2012

Robert HarveyIn the spirit of The Great Question Deletion Audit of 2010, I give you the great question deletion audit of 2012. These are basically all of the highly-voted questions on the first "Most Votes" page that, if asked today, would quickly be closed as Not Constructive (this is not a complete list):...

6
star away!
 
@thecoshman SIGH. That doesn't work, look at it! I tried that, which is why I freaking EDITED my own message that lends itself to starring.
 
now if only I could work out how to get money for stars... I'd have some money
 
4:41 PM
0
Q: Tag wikis need a size and functionality increase

DeadMGThe existing tag wikis are not enough. They can only store a very small volume of information, and given the complexity of the topics we're discussing here, that's just not enough. I propose to make them full wikis- that is, full community-edited sub-sites in their own right to host various refe...

@thecoshman Wouldn't we all?
 
use virtual box instead. ( if it's your own PC connected to proxy somewhere at work )
 
btw, SO search function - does is looks in tag wiki?
 
it's not work that are filtering grooveshark, but grooveshark filtering Ireland, damn racists!
 
user784668
Are the mods really that stupid?
3
 
@Abyx that comment would go good with meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/122197/…
 
4:44 PM
@Fanael they are not stupid, it's just they need something to do for their check, or it's command from above.
 
Neither, actually.
 
but they could easily choose something quite stupid for deletion, not the great Q. posts.
@MichaelMyers so, you are not in the process?
 
We're unpaid and pretty much autonomous except in rare circumstances.
(autonomous from "above", that is)
 
who is this @MichaelMyers and why is he blue ¬_¬
 
Not check as for salary/payment, but check as for a status. And quite ordinary is that these kind of situations are coming from above.
 
4:46 PM
@thecoshman he's a mod
 
@thecoshman He's a mod and he's a mod.
 
I'm disappointed. If I'd known the prevailing attitude in here with respect to SO moderation, I wouldn't have bothered.
 
@RobertHarvey bothered -- to do what?
 
I think more people hate meta than mods
 
@ALL Please, respect mods, and behave well, they are mods for a reason.
 
4:48 PM
@RobertHarvey oh, I thought that was a known fact already.
 
I think the general consensus is that mods should be there to settle disputes not take it upon them selves to arse around
2
 
it's not moderation I think, just an attitude against stupidty -- and that's more visible and with consequences when it comes from mods, so, stronger reaction
take it from me, i'm a mod at more serious forum ;-)
 
@DzekTrek I think you're in the wrong place for a request like this.
 
@AlfPSteinbach And he is, too!
 
@thecoshman There are a lot of disputes surrounding those questions. @RobertHarvey is trying to settle those disputes. That's the whole point of asking the community to weigh in, so we can find a place for the content that should stay and delete what doesn't belong.
 
4:50 PM
@TonyTheLion Then I shall leave, if you don't behave properly, then what is the reason for being educative? Education keeps us civilized and gives us strength to push limits of human organization, commitment to work and overall happiness.
 
@BilltheLizard The dispute is between people who think it should be deleted and the author(s) who don't participate in moderation at all?
 
@DzekTrek meh
 
And the reason for deletion is what exactly? What is gained from that? Aesthetic purity?
 
user784668
@RobertHarvey If someone is being outright silly, I don't care who they are. They're being silly, and that's what counts.
 
user784668
@Potatoswatter A few free bytes in the DB.
 
4:52 PM
@TonyTheLion That's your response, just "meh"? :(
 
@Potatoswatter I'd much rather move them to a more appropriate place than delete them.
 
there also seems to be great dislike for people discussing deletion of content behind the scenes
 
so why delete what is essentially the essence of this site? The questions and answers. The C++ book question is asked a lot, so deleting it, would provoke people asking again and again, and us answerers having to write the same answers over and over. you think we feel like doing that?
 
user784668
Hey, I have a simpler solution.
 
@Fanael hay man, HDD have got price recently
 
user784668
4:53 PM
Just delete the whole DB. Problem solved.
 
DELETE ALL THE THINGS
:P
 
@BilltheLizard Then creating that would be a prerequisite. Unless deletion means moving to a safe place for later recovery, it would clearly be the wrong next step if that is the ultimate goal.
 
@TonyTheLion That's why it should be moved not deleted. Put the content in the tag wiki and close any further questions on the subject.
 
hmmm
but why can't you just leave it?
 
Hey guys. Did somebody say something about mods? Sorry I eavesdropped.
 
4:54 PM
I don't see anything wrong with it
 
@Potatoswatter That's exactly why the question is being put to the community. What should be done with this content?
 
it's a very commonly asked question, and it's a good one to refer people to
 
user784668
@BoltClock No, you must be mistaken.
 
@BoltClock look in the starred messages
 
@BoltClock welcome to the disucssion :P
 
4:54 PM
@BilltheLizard But communities move slowly, and mods move quickly. Politically this doesn't stand a chance.
 
oh my, so many people don't know their stuff
 
nice one :)
 
3
Q: Replacing bad characters of a String with bad characters

Tim SchmelterI just wondered what's the easiest way to replace a string characters that must be replaced subsequently. For example: var str = "[Hello World]"; //enclose all occurences of [ and ] with brackets[] str = str.Replace("[","[[]").Replace("]","[]]"); The desired result: [[]Hello World[]] The a...

 
@BoltClock I don't know what you exactly mean, but there is discussion here about meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/122120/the-great-question-deletion-audit-of-2012
 
lol they wanna delete book list.
are they crazy
 
4:55 PM
@TonyTheLion Just because it's commonly asked doesn't mean it's a good question or on-topic for SO. We can close it as off-topic just as easily as we can close it as a duplicate.
 
@AlfPSteinbach I see... I see me! Fancy my first message in this room getting starred.
 
Well, I'm starting to wonder what the real purpose of SO really is then, because it seems there's ever more arbitrary rules being added left and right. The purported purpose is definitely NOT what the real purpose is.
 
@Potatoswatter Those questions have survived years.
 
@BilltheLizard why delete them, clearly some one thought it worth asking. Dupes get closed and pointed to the common question. They help drive more traffic here, more or less all from Google. People clearly don't really bother searching SO, so if they search Google and get linked here, sorted! Deleting questions is the most retarded failing at a solution I have ever heard of. There is no need for it, just OCD is all
 
@BilltheLizard Reason more to leave them where they are.
 
4:57 PM
@BilltheLizard So the authors moved on maybe years ago. Now suddenly a moderator has a problem, and someone has to step in to adopt ownership.
 
@thecoshman Seriously, "someone thought it was worth asking" is your argument? If they get here from Google now, they'll get here if the content is moved to the tag wiki.
 
@BilltheLizard The operative word being 'can'. I 'can' do a lot of funny stuff myself. I usually ask myself what the benefits of 'doing' or 'refraining' are
 
is tag wiki searchable by Google?
 
I think nobody reads tag wikis
 
@Potatoswatter No, a moderator does not have a problem. Moderators are responding to flags from the community. Other members of the community are complaining about these crappy questions.
 
4:58 PM
It's like destroying 1932 Buick just because it's old and worth seeing?! What a logic, man...
 
@BilltheLizard my point is, why delete it? what the hell do you gain from it, other then a smug sense of sorting things out
2
 
@bamboon Because they don't work. Now fill the tag wiki with that book list or the VIM answers, and the story will change.
 
@sehe dont think so
 
jessus christ, do you guys see a dog shit and feel the need to shape it into a perfect cube?
 
@bamboon It's like saying: "I never look for socks in my drawer". Well, that's because you leave them lying on the floor...
 
4:59 PM
@DzekTrek Again, I never said I wanted to destroy anything worth seeing. I want to move the good content to tag wikis and delete the bad content.
 
@bamboon Try it.
 
So, if I get this right, we start a Q&A site for programmers to ask questions, and then be able to get answers to already asked questions through Google etc, and when the site gets to be a few years old, those questions that have answers that are commonly sought for, will now be deleted. I see something wrong here.
 

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