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2:00 PM
@thecoshman no curl = some bullshit. FWIW, Mac OS has curl but no wget by default, and I'm sure other platforms are the same.
 
quicky, what do I have to do to output a variable in hex?
 
@Potatoswatter is a slightly different version of the paper that was published before, look at page 5 line 10 of the algorithm: web.engr.oregonstate.edu/~shindler/papers/…
@Potatoswatter seems like they knows that the value is not always between 0 and 1, thus they used min(delta/f, 1)
 
@bamboon std::cout << std::hex;
 
fuck it, let's just get it done manually for now
I can script it latter
 
@Potatoswatter ok thanks
 
2:06 PM
oh man, this is going to get ugly fast
really going to need to brush up scripting skills, or hope this problem can get worked around
 
Damn, Boost.Operators won't give me constexpr operators.
 
How portable does the script need to be? Can you integrate the updating/downloading into the VCS and let users pull that way?
 
the main problem I think I will face is that I need to find out what version of the code I am building for, thus what version of the package to download.
But even then, even if I am building for say version 12, each time that version of the software is updated, the package name will be updated
I think I will just have to accept manual intervention, perhaps just download the package I want, rename it to a static name, and then transfer it and run the script
 
@thecoshman Yeah… like I said… download the package into the repository.
 
@Potatoswatter not sure if that is possible in this case
 
2:18 PM
@thecoshman Weird licensing, or what?
 
sigh... I now need to update the build scripts to not attempt to automatically pull the files ¬_¬
@Potatoswatter clearcase
 
@thecoshman Never used it. But it's only used by large organizations, so hopefully you can delegate the problem up the command chain.
Can you at least manually download "approved" copies to the server, then have the build script simply cp them from the intranet?
 
Hello. Can someone tell me why my function printPlayer() wont run at the start? ideone.com/zytWn
 
dang it - dbg unit tests pass, but release fails - this may be tough to debug
 
@thecoshman … and each version of the build script can download the appropriate non-versioned directory from the server.
 
2:33 PM
@LearningC did you read the error messages?
 
There was no error message when I compiled
I didn't copy all my sources
 
@kfmfe04 what about debug builds with optimisations cranked up?
 
@awoodland haven't tried that yet, but I'm assuming the error is in my code - cranking it up bit by bit could give me a clue to what optimizations are causing me trouble, though... ...hmm...
 
sbi
@LearningC Please boil down your problem to a self-contained repro case of preferably not more than 20 lines of code. Otherwise you are just wasting everyone's time.
 
@awoodland - it's a bit tough matching the outputs from the two runs are threaded so the output's kind of shuffled around
 
2:36 PM
@sbi what does it mean by self-contain repro case?
 
sbi
@LearningC Something that compiles without requiring any additional code/headers/libraries/whatever and reproduces the issue you are having.
 
@kfmfe04 if it reliably works without optimisations, but fails with them I'd be willing to bet it's a violation of the aliasing rules
(it might be something else, but that's a pretty easy bug to rule out)
 
@kfmfe04 Simply put, do whatever you can to reproduce the bug in the debugger. It doesn't matter that the changes to unspecified behavior happen to be optimizations.
 
@Potatoswatter @awoodland ty - all good ideas - I am trying an -O3 build in dbg now
 
@sbi Ok I got it. Will keep that in mind when asking more questions.
 
2:41 PM
interesting thing is, valgrind and drd cleared on initial dbg build
 
@kfmfe04 did you try helgrind with valgrind too?
could it be a race condition?
 
I think I can get away with just updating the build scripts so that they just pull the code from a fixed location. and then manually (perhaps with the aid of a script) extract the data I need to that location. Just means if I change version, I would need to re-extract the data
 
@kfmfe04 you ran it, did you :)
 
so perhaps my script can take in the package to extract the data from
 
@awoodland I will try helgrind later after this -O3 build
 
2:42 PM
for now though, just need to get shit down!
 
@LearningC My guess would be that you changed the redTurn and whiteTurn constants but you are using raw values of 91 and 93 (representing ASCII for [ and ], I guess) in printPlayer().
 
ok - now, this is getting interesting: dbg -O3 passed - lemme try helgrind on this
 
@Potatoswatter I found the problem. I didn't defined currentPlayer yet.
 
so, you need case whiteTurn: and case redTurn:.
 
really?
Which one goes first?
 
2:46 PM
I take that back… according to the Wikipedia page, various color schemes are used including red+white.
 
yea my professor wants red and white. r and R for red and w and W for white.
 
@awoodland @sehe @Potatoswatter ok - this is quite funky: dbg -O3 passes valgrind, helgrind, and drd - I'm going to have to dig a little into cmake to see what it's passing into my release build
 
do you have something with side effects in an assert perhaps?
 
@kfmfe04 Also pass -DNDEBUG
 
or in #ifndef NDEBUG
 
2:51 PM
@awoodland heh you beat me
 
@awoodland @Potatoswatter both great ideas - lemme grep my code a little
 
> Simply put, do whatever you can to reproduce the bug in the debugger. It doesn't matter that the changes to unspecified behavior happen to be optimizations.
… It also doesn't matter which changes happen to be side effects of assert.
 
@awoodland @Potatoswatter DAMN you guys are good - just saved me hours of debugging!!! It was an Assert()! I got greedy optimizing and stuck code into an Assert - obviously, it's not going end up in the release build - tyvm!
going to fix and rebuild now
 
Oh, I take that back then.
Good work and have a nice weekend!
 
@Potatoswatter you under-estimated how bad my code can be when my mind is muddled - hehe - thx for your help!
 
2:57 PM
Also, never move working code into assert
 
learned my lesson...
woohoo - release working fine now
gotta remember to rm that -O3 from dbg now
 
> @PiTheNumber I can confirm that. I'm at a loss why you ask, though. Are you saying it was PEBCAK? – sehe 9 secs ago
 
3:12 PM
rm -rf /tmp/mompkg that will delete that folder and everything inside it right?
as in, recursive and shut the fuck up
 
@thecoshman given enough permission, yes
 
sweet
 
@thecoshman Or, even, just ignore if it doesn't exist and still shut the fuck up.
 
good good
 
time to watch some X-files while waiting for valgrind check
 
3:16 PM
rm: examine files in directory /tmp/mompkg why am I getting this?
alias rm
rm -i
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
Perhaps rm is aliased to something else. Try /bin/rm directly.
Damn this connection.
 
@Potatoswatter thanks
 
that's insane - aliasing rm - that's almost malicious
 
@kfmfe04 Pretty common. You're lucky your alias is so simple! Although, my manpage (Mac OS X) says -f overrides any previous -i, so on my system -rf would still behave properly even under that alias.
 
right then, next subject of the day, ANT, can it handle "/tmp/example/\$STUPIDFOLDERNAME/anotherFolder"
actually, don't worry, I will just pull out the folder I want and then let ant have a sensible folder name
 
3:27 PM
anybody know what the windows equivalent of lseek might be?
 
@TonyTheLion _lseek. Windows puts an underscore in front of POSIX names.
(I've never used POSIX on Windows, just read this on MSDN.)
 
@kfmfe04 I never use unaliased rm. -i flag is mandatory.
 
@CatPlusPlus not when you have a shit load of stuff you want to clear out
 
That's what -f is for.
 
@CatPlusPlus I despise -i. All it every achieves is training me to hit y repeatedly, so sillyness still has the same net effect
 
3:32 PM
@kfmfe04 +1
@awoodland +1
 
PEBKAC.
 
@CatPlusPlus yes, but in my case -i overrides -f
 
Update coreutils, then.
 
so have rm actaully do rm -i meand I need to do /bin/rm -rf
 
I've never seen rm -i -f not working properly.
 
3:33 PM
how to do I wrap bash commands onto a new line? is a \
 
@thecoshman yes, make sure there's no whitespace after \
 
@awoodland ah, thanks
other then the 'return' of course :P
 
@CatPlusPlus update the POSIX standard too?
 
Yes, it could definitely use that.
 
> Some Unix experts follow Phil’s argument to its logical absurdity and maintain that it is better not to make commands like rm even a slight bit friendly. They argue, though not quite in the terms we use, that trying to make Unix friendlier, to give it basic amenities, will actually make it worse. Unfortunately, they are right.
 
3:38 PM
@sehe was nearly another one for markdown :P
 
From the UHG, p.23
@thecoshman Gosh, are you counting near misses too now? Get a life :)
 
@sehe wasn't counting the near misses, just saying it was one
 
Meh, Unix.
"Let's make it as obscure as possible!"
 
POSIX is an API, even the parts that seem useful for interaction. In this day and age, if you're using it for everyday management of individual files, you're doing it wrong. Enter POSIX commands like you're writing/debugging a fragile program, or managing a database.
Or, attach an NFS client or tunnel X-windows into your server… whatever's necessary to make things comfortable.
 
#ifdef S0APB0X_M0DE
	Please, please, please do not encourage people to
	overload standard commands with "safe" commands.

	 A. People usually put it into their xshrc in the wrong
		place, so that scripts that want to "rm" a file
		mysteriously ask for confirmation, and/or fill up the
		disk thinking they had really removed the file.
	 B. There's no way to protect from all things that can
	    accidentally remove files, and if you protect one
	    common one, users can and will get the assumption that
@CatPlusPlus aliasing rm: and let's make that even more unusable ?
 
3:45 PM
hahaha - from UHG - C++ is "The Assembly Language of Object-Oriented Programming" - I find it hard to disagree with that
 
@CatPlusPlus I found the source for the S0APB0X_M0DE quote: Randal Schwartz wrote that in 1990 (jan 12): groups.google.com/group/alt.folklore.computers/tree/browse_frm/… (alt.folklore.computers)
@thecoshman yawn. So now you are vanely reporting near misses as they happen and further elaborating on how that doesn't mean you are (yawn) counting them ...
I mean,

Just let people edit their messages in peace
 
rofl % alias del rm -i
 
@kfmfe04 It just makes a lot more sense that way.
 
@sehe too funny
 
It's not meant to be funny. AND DON'T USE RM! Sheesh. How tough can that be, people!?! is the crux. Don't overload a dangerous command: it will only get more dangerous
 
3:51 PM
we should all go back to using GUIs - command-line is just too dangerous ;^P
 
@kfmfe04 That's an option too. I never hear complaints about cmd.exe's DEL command not going to the recycle bin. It must be because no-one uses the cmd.exe for any serious interactive business
user image
3
fresh from the dailyWTF
In MS Marketing speak "Bing Maps has unique landmark features"
 
hahaha - nice
 
Jeez, Greeks are rioting over the EU dragging their feet over a new bailout? What will they do when they're kicked out, invade FYROM?
 
OOP in all its glory
 
@sehe ¬_¬ have I done something?
 
3:57 PM
@sehe The local gangs make a particular hand symbol… it's hard to demonstrate.
 
@Potatoswatter any change from before or are the Germans still bailing out all others?
 
@kfmfe04 Well I assume they're still getting a German bailout, just maybe more slowly this time. But maybe if they act unruly enough the Eurozone can just kick them out and be done with it.
 
 
Click Yes
 
Continuing the theme of commending Microsoft's superior user friendliness...
 
3:59 PM
Well, maybe XP is ok - if it were Vista, I would click Yes
 
@sehe No, that's Parallels. Note the big red "pause" symbol and Macintosh buttons. Parallels is awful.
 
What does this mean? error: expected declaration or statement at end of input
 
@LearningC probably you forgot a } or a ;
 
@awoodland ty, just found it
 
@Potatoswatter Oh, I was tricked by the disk label. Sry
 
4:08 PM
well, that's one beastly long command. thanks semi-colon, you make shells so much nicer to use
 
@thecoshman huh
 
cd /tmp ; ls for example
 
sbi
Epic user interface design fail: http://blog.markwshead.com/1148/design-problem/
OMG!
 
By @BillTheLizard:
> “Customers who purchased this product also purchased: First Aid Only 6″ X 9″ Instant Cold Compress, 3M Medipore H Soft Cloth Surgical Tape, Nexcare Opticlude(TM) Orthoptic Eyepatch”
Brilliant
@thecoshman Yeah. Beasty long command alright. (by the way, you know you can subshell it (cd /tmp && ls): does error checking and saves you the cd - to get back to where you started from
 
@sehe now the sub shell I did not know. but that was just my way of letting you know what I meant
do tell me more about this 'subshell', oh and do I need to do it if I cd in a bashscript?
 
4:21 PM
@thecoshman +1 on &&. You might also be interested to know that & is not just a suffix meaning to run in the background; used infix it will start multiple asynchronous tasks. Between these uses, ; is relatively rare.
 
@Potatoswatter well, I was using ; as I was just trying to work out the chain of commands that I needed
 
@thecoshman The subshell is the parens, not the &&. You're creating a scoped environment. We love scoping, right?
 
@thecoshman Subshells are just that: they run a temporary subshell. Meaning that any changes to environment/working directories will be undone by the time you exit. ls --> no subshell (ls) --> subshell
;,&& and ||: and example is command && echo "success" || echo "failure"; echo "done"
("done" is always printed, "success"/"failure" depending on the exitcode of command)
 
oooh, I bow down to you
 
for in {1..4}; do somejob& done to start 4 jobs in parallel
time (for in {1..4}; do somejob& done; wait) to do the same, but await their completion and report time taken
 
4:27 PM
any way, I have to get going now
see ya
and thanks
 
@sehe that's pretty neat - didn't know there's a built-in "join()" in the shell (via wait - I'm assuming that's a shell cmd)
watching Rise of the Planet of the Apes - cgi on the chimp is pretty amazing
 
Or is it makeup? Brush or cgimp?
 
cgimp
 
Aw, bushorchimp.com is dead. Long live the chimps!
 
5:14 PM
@sehe I've never had any problem with that.
And I don't really care about stupid users.
 
@CatPlusPlus Huh. Neither do I. I run rm without safety belts :)
 
damn - them apes are smart
 
5:33 PM
@kfmfe04 have you seen Planet of the Apes?
 
@kush that's what I'm watching right now - the bridge scene
cgi is amazing - the cutting/pace is excellent
 
no, I mean Planet of the Apes&mdash;not rise of the planet of the apes
&emdash;
 
twist on the original story is pretty good - saw the original many years ago
 
ohk
 
@kush the 1968 one I've seen - is the 2001 one any good?
 
5:36 PM
I'd say the old one is better but that's just me
 
ah - but I'll have to check out the 2001, too - didn't know Tim Burton directed it
thx for pointing out the new
 
guys, is there anyway to flag something as it belongs to codereview?
 
Off-topic.
Dunno if mods can move freely.
 
I think I might ask that on meta
 
5:56 PM
Codereview is beta, so I don't think they'll add a migration option yet.
 
ah ok
 
codereview has been in beta forever
 
How do you handle coding style in a larger C++ project?
Are there efficient tools which can, for example check if the naming conventions are violated?
 
public beta start

1 year ago
 
6:14 PM
damnit. I'm trying to go to weekend and I'm grappling with fucking SourceSafe for over 70 minutes now
We work happily with GIT, however the client has SourceSafe. They want us to move over to....... Serena Dimensions - oooff.
I'll stick with Git guerilla style
 
wtf - what kind of repository operation takes 70min? git rulez
 
@Nils have you seen stackoverflow.com/questions/2574416/… if you have a lot of money it recommends klocwork
 
@kfmfe04 No, I'm not waiting. I'm actively STRUGGLING
Trying to get fucking VS to recognize scc bindings (that it messed up by itself anyway)
 
ouch
 
Trying to get everything checked in so that it compiles. It has been compiling for weeks in Git :)
We needed to merge a new feature and that was a good occasion to also update SourceSafe
 
6:18 PM
moved from svn to git from the start of the year - never going back to svn for me
 
@kush well that's a whole static code analysis thing
but thx
 
@jalf Reading it now (Thoroughly this time) and also working on my reading skills, Thanks
 
7:00 PM
Q: "Putting math functions in classes isn't working out" A: "Create more classes using inheritance, or make a singleton"
 
@Pubby Where does that come from?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Saw it on programmers.se
 
0
Q: 32-bit pointers with the x86-64 ISA: why not?

PotatoswatterThe x86-64 instruction set adds more registers and other improvements to help streamline executable code. However, in many applications the increased pointer size is a burden. The extra, unused bytes in every pointer clog up the cache and might even overflow RAM. GCC, for example, builds with the...

 
MOAR CLASSES.
 
@Pubby Inability to separate project management from code structure… sounds like Java? I hope?
 
7:08 PM
Humm here doesn't seem to be something cheap and reliable to just check conventions :(
 
sbi
For those following along, today's the last day of the C++ meeting. #cpp #wg21
We're out of papers to discuss, so now talking about digit separators. Amazing how tricky such a simple change can be. #cpp #wg21
Coming this year: new subgroup for parallelism, meeting in May. New subgroup for networking libraries. And more! #cpp #wg21
 
@sbi Which talks have you seen? I just watched Stroustrup's and the one about Clang.
 
@Nils What'd you want to check in naming conventions?
 
@CatPlusPlus You can never have too many classes!
 
simple things
for example that public methods are properly documented using doxygen
or m_ for member variables
mostly prefixes
 
7:13 PM
Doxygen will warn for undocumented functions.
 
ok but that does not enforce the conventions
 
And completely separate tool will?
The only way to 'enforce' conventions is to get programmers to use them.
 
sbi
Feb 1 at 19:58, by sbi
"anyone could read this information in 3 minutes, but let's make it a 48 minute audio file" -- podcasts
 
(Also, member prefixes are silly.)
 
hehe
@CatPlusPlus Well that is not the problem, but sometimes you forget.
and conventions are only useful if used strictly
 
7:16 PM
So it may happen. Not an end of the world.
Though if you can forget project conventions, then it means project has too many or too bizarre conventions.
Or you leak memory.
I used to use the same set of conventions for every project, regardless of a language. Now I switch between so many I can't even count them. And still not a problem.
(And I do leak memory.)
 
humm
well have you used google go?
it enforces quite everything
 
I know basics, never used it for real.
I remember they derive symbol visibility from case.
 
wow, that's terribad
 
I did some commercial Java work and they had a small tool which checked most conventions, however I don't remeber how it was called.
 
Did it stop people from documenting everything a la "/* Ths is my clevr fucntion */" — repeated verbatim for every function in the project
 
7:31 PM
actual, useful, important documentation can only ever be written by a human
 
being able to type incorrectly on demand like clevr fucntion is a skill. I had to stop and think when I wrote clevr and I had to actually hit backspace to get fucntion right the first time around
 
typing incorrectly is easy
just get a keyboard which doesn't quite work correctly
 
@Potatoswatter that is not my point
 
Typing misspelling the same way as someone else is difficult
 
dumb useless comments are another problem
or copy/paste comments
 
7:33 PM
Nils, I always urge people to comment more than less if they are not sure
 
Yes but the comment needs to explain things which are not clear in the code and not to explain what the code does..
 
I'm going to purchase consumable energy
 
@DeadMG you mean food?
 
technically, I could also have been referring to fuel for some sort of vehicle
 
Xeo
Interesting proposal that allows a view of a class as a tuple
 
7:37 PM
@DeadMG Food is just bicycle fuel.
 
@Potatoswatter Food is good. I like food.
 
@EtiennedeMartel and they rhyme too! (:
 
In plain English, what is the difference between struct node* next; and struct node next*;
 
Xeo
@DzekTrek The second is a syntax error.
 
and the first one?
 
Xeo
7:48 PM
Is a pointer
 
OK, but what about this?
new_node->data = data;
 
What about it?
 
What does this do?
 
ugh, when I close my Qt app VC reports there is a buffer overrun
 
Sets data member on a struct pointed to by new_node pointer.
 
7:51 PM
anybody heard that Qt has a buffer overrun?
 
member data of the object new_node is a data?
 
It's normal assignment.
 
Xeo
@tweet_xeo but, during the static if discussion someone did mention static for :)
Who said something about static for?
 
@CatPlusPlus how would you explain it to a kid using cubes?
You have a stack of yellow lego cubes, and when you add new one, you have to paint it to a yellow so to be added in the stack.
 
I really wouldn't.
 
7:54 PM
.lol :)
where did cubes go?
 
@Xeo We need static everything!
Hell, we should even be able to run C++ code at compile time.
 
Yay, exponential compile times.
 
Static dereference could be used for any object? That's harsh.
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel Hello, constexpr. :P
 
constexpr is primitive.
 
7:57 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Salut, ami.
 
@Xeo We need something better than that! Something that would allow us to make builds even slower!
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel Hello, Boost.PP
 
Boost.PP doesn't slow the build that much.
 
C++11 has increased developer productivity. I think it's a step in the wrong direction. I mean, it's completely opposed to C++'s philosophy.
 
7:58 PM
If you want to slow the build, then Boost.Spirit or Boost.MPL.
 
Anyway, I'm kidding.
 
Template Haskell is awesome.
 
Don't have many things to do while my PS3 is updating itself.
 
@CatPlusPlus you seem to be very thrilled with Haskell. :)
 

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