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5:00 AM
@Nooble Unknown. Because it's not known whether you can know everything and also whether the current state of the world doesn't depend on a phenomenon that we don't know.
 
@ʞɔᴉN no problm aa~~
 
@Nooble maybe it could predict next day's weather
or a really good chess move
 
@StackedCrooked Accurately!
@VermillionAzure I'm saying, what if it knew that.
 
@Nooble Doesn't quantum mechanics prevent that..? (Not an expert.)
 
@Nooble We probably won't unless we become omnscient. In which case, I don't think we'll attain that during our lifetime
@StackedCrooked Nooble doens't know quantum mechanics
 
5:02 AM
@Nooble is that true?
 
@StackedCrooked He's lying, I know everything!
 
Ah. Cool.
 
And because of this, I can predict the future.
Nick will die this Sunday.
 
It's like, "does the concept of infinity exist" vs. "does infinity exist in nature or is infinite finite to the point where we cannot detect whether it is finite or not but we assume that it is infinite and therefore we assume infinity exists in nature and therefore it is our flawed, but statistically correct understanding of reality that is equally valid but also flawed because it's worked for us forever but there exists a case that can disprove it?"
 
user406009
@VermillionAzure Supposedly there are both deterministic and non-deterministic versions ways to interpret quantum mechanics.
 
5:03 AM
@VermillionAzure yeah we're always learning more, but I think we can safely say that a physical brain is a deterministic system
if you know how the input affects it, you can always predict the output
 
user406009
@Nooble Which one?
 
@ʞɔᴉN Until we can accurately simulate the human brain down to its most fundamental mechanisms as well as its possible I/O and minute phenomena, I don't think it matters whether it is. It's how it appears to work that is more important for artificial intelligence
 
@Lalaland The one(s) who will die on Sunday.
 
@Nooble only one?
hah well played
 
user406009
That's a tautology.
 
5:05 AM
@Lalaland But it doesn't matter for our purposes unless we want to be unproductively pedantic with AI design that doesn't even have widespread existence yet.
 
@ʞɔᴉN Hehe.
 
@VermillionAzure pedantic, how so?
apologies i probably missed a bit of the earlier conversation
 
@Lalaland :P
 
@ʞɔᴉN Why should we argue about if quantum mechanics has a bearing on the true behavior of the human brain if we cannot approximate it using other methods first?
 
if you're referring to ethics, I think this is area is getting the least amount of attention
oh, hm I thought you were replying to me earlier, my bad
 
5:07 AM
@ʞɔᴉN And ethics are always relative. Of course, our "good" ethics should be the center of AI ethics to ensure the safety of mankind and perhaps the AI.
 
that's true, it's relative.. with that said, if a truly sentient AI came to being, would it really be ethical to force it to put human lives before its own?
questions :)
 
@ʞɔᴉN It depends on our ethics. Which we don't have an absolute set of ethics that is universal for all humans except possibly pain and self-preservation
 
@ʞɔᴉN You just did the two-dot-crime..
 
@ʞɔᴉN If I were trying to ensure AI would remain compatible with humanity, I'd implant an understanding to promote empathy, safety, stability, and selflessness overriding self-valuing behavior for all.
 
not to be the cynical bastard here but you know that would be totally taken advantage of right?
 
@Lalaland Yeah
 
@StackedCrooked I honestly thought it was my connection and my video was just buffering too slow
 
It's a shame, because it's a really interesting talk.
 
yeah, and respect to that guy for being able to answer all those questions on the spot with no hesitation
 
But is nobody else really interested?...
 
5:32 AM
CppCon debriefing: what awesome piece of code can possibly fascinate seven expert C++ programmers this much? #cppcon http://t.co/FTIYk4foWh
@ThePhD would be pleased
ah, picture quality is bad
can I update the pics after tweeting
 
@AndyProwl Wut.
 
@ThePhD union UB!
 
Woohoo!
I mean, uh, how dare they do something so bad!
 
yeah
 
@AndyProwl By the way
AHHHHHHHHHHHH KILL IT WITH FIRE WTF IS THAT STUFF
 
5:40 AM
perversion for "fun"
 
@AndyProwl COMING SOON: DIRTY, DIRTY PERVERSIONS FOR FUN ft. Bjorne Stroustraup
Also I am very sad I couldn't go to such a conference
I'd go next year. Or maybe to the----OHHHHH
 
6:02 AM
user image
5
> I'm want to make a code that make a double pyramid like this:
@Jerry what's a valid close reason for that question?
once there was the "too localized" thing
 
@AndyProwl Yeah, I dunno--the only thing that would really fit any more is closing it as a duplicate--but nearly all the others ask to print a diamond instead, so even though the basic idea's pretty similar, it's not quite a duplicate.
 
6:26 AM
Uh oh.
I think I have to refactor my whole system again.
@Borgleader Save me. ;~;
 
hello
 
I like how it took
All the way until GL 4.4
To have functions that take multiple textures/samplers/uniforms/buffers/vertex buffers and bind them all at once
core in the spec.
@ElimGarak The way OpenGL and Direct 3D handle textures is way too different for me to properly abstract. In the case of D3D11, I would just check if a class was a shader_resource_view and then pass it down the pipe that way with write_resource, and then bind a bunch of shader_resource_view to the graphics card. Now, there is no such underlying thing in OpenGL (unless you count texture_views, but that's ~~Non standard~~ until OpenGL 4.4, FFS), so I'm trying to figure out how to make
that same mechanism back-compat... I think I'm going to have to expand the number of types to be some compile-time type_trait. Like template <typename T> is_shader_resource : std::false_type {}, and then have a template <typename T> resource_get { graphics_handle get ( ... ) { ... } };
 
6:42 AM
Ugh.
I need to hugely revamp how textures and resource views are done in the engine... blech blech blech.
You know the best way to solve this problem?
By not solving it. Nini.
 
oh wait that actually doesn't work haha
 
@StackedCrooked You'll like Chandler's keynote if you're into optimization
 
Cool :)
 
7:06 AM
how fucking slow am I lol
 
It's a nice diamond.
 
7:35 AM
> I once interviewed a guy who told me he wouldn't leave the interview until I'd given him 5 good reasons I wouldn't hire him. I decided not to play the game and told him he wasn't a good fit. (And he wasn't, aside from being abrasive and not qualified.). He sat their drumming his fingers on the table and said, well that's one reason. I called security and had him escorted out.
 
7:45 AM
@StackedCrooked that's badass
 
8:32 AM
asmjit looks cool.
The code samples beg for expression templates though.
 
I've used it before for Wide
then I switched to LLVM
 
Ah.
Was it any good?
 
not especially.
I don't remember it being buggy or anything, but it's not as abstract as LLVM and harder to use.
 
I see.
 
but that was years ago
 
8:56 AM
@StackedCrooked he used a profiler on himself :)
 
Isn't there a debate on how to pronounce "trie" correctly? "Tree"? "Try"?
 
Its try
 
> This term was coined by Edward Fredkin, who pronounces it /ˈtriː/ "tree" as in the word retrieval.[1][2] However, other authors pronounce it /ˈtraɪ/ "try", in an attempt to distinguish it verbally from "tree".[1][2][3]
 
9:08 AM
interesting
@StackedCrooked Why don't they reuse one EOW singleton to save memory? :)
 
they must be noobs :P
(never used a trie myself)
 
You should... trie it sometimes!
 
@fredoverflow definitely the best talk out of the 3 available so far
 
9:12 AM
@ScarletAmaranth I stopped watching Herb's propaganda after 2 minutes, but I've heard there is an interesting static analysis tool demonstration? Maybe I'll give it another try.
 
@fredoverflow untrue; it is interesting but it's beyond fabricated; and they act as though they have never tested the small 4 LoC examples before "let's hope this work, public humiliation otherwise"
 
Well, let's see, who wrote the tool, and who is Herb's employer...
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked dd hasn't got a very good optimiser!
 
Herb's talk definitely the worst
then Bjarne, mr. Parent winning
 
@elyse Is it webscale?
 
@ScarletAmaranth Parent is so fucking mellow.
 
Probably a flawed test though.
 
I wish Sean Parent would adopt Batman.
 
user1804599
dd to /dev/null could be parallelised.
 
But not from urandom, right?
Welcome to the United Random!
 
9:15 AM
@fredoverflow I really like Herb's presentation, but oh god was the content of the talk utterly uninteresting
 
head -c 10 /dev/zero | wc -c # yields 10
as it should
I did this experiment yesterday where I had a vector<uint16_t> that contained the sequence [0..65535]. Then I used zlib compression on the buffer.
 
user1804599
I wonder whether the Go compiler optimises for {} to select {}. The former would use lots of CPU cycles forever whereas the latter would pause the goroutine forever.
 
I got compression ratio 0.998 or something. So very bad compression.
However, when splitting the two bytes of each uint16_t into their own arrays and compressing the concatenated arrays I got compression ratio of 100 or something.
 
user1804599
Oh, 1000 signatures to go for a referendum.
 
9:20 AM
It was a pointless but fun experiment.
 
user1804599
That shouldn't be hard should it.
 
I'm not signing anything.
 
user1804599
You're from Belgium anyway so it wouldn't be geldig.
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow how I solve the AST typing problem: github.com/rightfold/o2/blob/master/src/main/scala/o2/…
 
The Work Outing is so fucking hilarious :-D
 
9:23 AM
what AST typing problem
 
7
Q: How do purely functional compilers annotate the AST with type info?

fredoverflowIn the syntax analysis phase, an imperative compiler can build an AST out of nodes that already contain a type field that is set to null during construction, and then later, in the semantic analysis phase, fill in the types by assigning the declared/inferred types into the type fields. How do pu...

 
ah
well that's a terrifically dumb thing to want to do
 
user1804599
Add arbitrary data to the AST at any time without losing static type checking.
 
user1804599
I think structural types would be ideal but they're slow in Scala.
 
user1804599
I also read about some solution using cofrees but I don't understand it.
 
9:26 AM
Can you have a state machine in a functional programming language?
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked Sure.
 
user1804599
You just return a new instance of the FSM type instead of mutating the existent one.
 
@StackedCrooked you can imagine f :: (args, state) -> (ret, newState) sort of thing
 
Oh.
So it's nothing special.
 
9:29 AM
of course not :P
 
user1804599
Similar to how prepending to a list creates a new list.
 
@ScarletAmaranth f :: args -> State state ret :3
 
so the AST typing problem is a PEBKAC problem
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ ye good luck explaining it with this
 
user1804599
Or appending to an array copies the entire array, which is why arrays are rarely used in functional programming.
 
9:30 AM
If the universe has time as the 4th dimension then it's also stateless.
So stateful programs are actually stateless.
 
user1804599
@ScarletAmaranth typealias State ret state = state -> (ret, state)
 
user1804599
done!
 
shees you people can't appreciate the simplicity!!!
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked In functional programming you don't care about time.
 
user1804599
You create a value and at any point in time it'll be the same, so time is irrelevant.
 
9:32 AM
it will appear the same to the programmer at least :P
 
Oh, cppcon is over.
If Niebler's ranges are gonna make it in C++17 then that will be a major thing.
 
user1804599
Good. Fuck cppcon.
 
user1804599
Nibbler > Niebler.
 
9:47 AM
@elyse The dark matter alien?
 
would you ever consider named pipes for inter-process communication?
they seem kinda fragile to me
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow Yes!
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked rather Unix domain sockets.
 
What is the average age of the committee?
 
user1804599
Many tools break when passed FIFOs.
 
9:49 AM
hi all
 
@elyse Not familiar with that.
 
user1804599
They're like TCP sockets, but without the TCP.
 
nc on local host also seems nice
 
user1804599
And use filenames instead of addresses.
 
Interesting.
 
user1804599
9:50 AM
For some reason Java doesn't support them lol.
 
can someone answer on my post in C++ section please ?
 
sure, I don't mind downvoting it
 
why ?
 
firstly, because you came here spamming it
and secondly, because I subsequently read it and holy shit, that's an awful question.
 
Ok then sorry
 
SJD
9:58 AM
lool
trenchant
 
> I heard it is related to reverse engineering, but how does that work, and can someone reverse engineer a rockstar game ?
@Puppy lol
 
user1804599
@Puppy propose a different solution instead of merely saying this one is bad.
 
> std::allocator Is to Allocation what std::vector Is to Vexation
^ title of Andrei's talk
 
@elyse Simply transform the AST into a semantic tree.
 
-3
Q: C++ oop best video lecture?

Ammar HussainWhat is the best tutorial for c++ programming Language

 
user1804599
10:07 AM
So you want to have many tree types?
 
it's not an AST, as there is no syntax involved.
 
user1804599
One for program, one for program with resolved names, one for program with types, etc.
 
meh
I have one semantic tree for all of those
 
user1804599
Do you decouple things?
 
one syntax tree, one semantic tree, then LLVM IR
 
user1804599
10:08 AM
How do you make sure you don't read data before it has been added?
 
it's immutable.
there's no such thing as adding data.
the data is always there.
 
user1804599
Oh, so no decoupling.
 
user1804599
Then it's no option for me.
 
adding data to it is a meaningless thing.
the semantics of a program are logically immutable.
 
user1804599
I want to add type information after being finished with name resolution.
 
user1804599
10:09 AM
I don't want to do name resolution and type checking at the same time.
 
that doesn't make sense to do.
if you're accessing a member of an object, say, you can't know what the result of name resolution will be without knowing what type the object is.
 
user1804599
Name lookup never depends on types in my language.
 
I see
so every object has a member of every name?
 
that's many members
 
well in the type information pass you would have to know the type of the member being named.
so it seems to me that unless it literally has a member of every name, the type information pass would end up throwing name resolution failures.
which seems to me like it's basically just doing both together.
 
user1804599
10:16 AM
Members aren't a thing.
 
so you have no compound data structures of any kind.
 
Maybe it's a language like Tcl where everything is a string.
Worst language ever.
 
I really don't see any purpose at all in trying to separate them out into different passes
after all, logically, the name should resolve to the same thing regardless of when you attempt to do the resolution
 
user1804599
@Puppy You seem to have this thought that everything is C++-like.
 
@elyse I have never heard of any language that could be even remotely meaningfully useful that does not have compound data structures.
 
user1804599
10:20 AM
You can have compound data structures without named members hth.
 
you could do, but it would be tremendously unhelpful to be never able to name the member.
in fact, how would you even extract information out of the structure without naming the bit you want?
 
user1804599
With your favourite language feature called pattern matching.
 
that still involves naming the members, just in a slightly more roundabout way
 
user1804599
No, it doesn't.
 
user1804599
union Option[T] {
    Some(T)
    None
}

match foo {
    Some(x) => f(x)
    None => g()
}
 
user1804599
10:26 AM
no named members
 
you named the x member by index.
 
user1804599
It's not the x member.
 
user1804599
It's the first member which happens to be assigned to a local variable named x.
 
imagine some fairly useless FakeOption[T] { Some() None } and that foo is, in fact, of that type instead.
you just "resolved" x to a member that does not exist.
 
user1804599
That doesn't matter.
 
user1804599
10:28 AM
x is a local variable.
 
user1804599
The type checker will find out that the pattern Some(x) doesn't match Some.
 
sure
but your name resolution phase will have given it a pass when in fact, you've referred to a thing that does not exist.
 
@Columbo Your "read the rules" message is my favorite. :)
 
@Puppy Imaginary Behavior
 
@StackedCrooked More like, just deferring name resolution until type checking time, which is the sane thing to do in the first place.
 
10:43 AM
@Borgleader go ahead.
I don't even know where to volunteer.
E-mail Herb, perhaps?
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ I'm glad you like my work! Don't forget to check out the Columbo Fanshop!
 
Chrome's URL preview is a life saver.
 
Well played
So, should I email Herb about joining t the Unicode study group? What do I say about it?
"I'm awesome. Put me in the study group."
12
 
@Columbo incredible
 
10:55 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes "I have experience, see my lib I did"
 
let me star it, other coders should know it
@R.MartinhoFernandes I love unicode and I çąղ քɾօքҽɾӀվ մʂҽ ìէ
 
I think it's incredible if people don't notice the similar status ids in the urls on the starboard
 
@Columbo hey, it's not friday and you're not rightfold!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Don't forget to call him "Coach"
 
11:14 AM
by the way this piece of code looks like java
it instinctively gives me a strong repulsion
I guess I shall live with that
 
Is it possible to be boring while drunk? I find that I always follow the same patterns now: talk about politics while knowing nothing about it, talk about death, trying to stir some drama up, try to dance to something, trying to be social with people I don't know.
 
it is the inevitable and direct consequence of being drunk
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ my friends usually try to piss in a soap dispenser
but if your friends argue about politics and death.. well.. consider yourself lucky
 
@MarcoA. That's funny at least
It's always so dark when I do it
I think I've even said something like "Oh, well, I'll die alone". I guess that's a new entry, but it's even darker than "LIFE HAS NO PURPOSE".
I wish I could just laugh, and do some stupid shit or say something stupid
Wait, what? An ebook reader weights more if it contains data?
What
> TIL that a 4GB ebook reader filled with 3,500 ebooks weighs a billionth of a billionth of a gram more than if it were empty of data - a difference that is approximately the same weight as a molecule of DNA. The same number of physical books would weigh about two tons. souce
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ The cold never bothered me anyway.
 
11:22 AM
@StackedCrooked ..
 
@StackedCrooked do you write any C#?
 
@MarcoA. ...
 
Ok, I have what is probably the nicest state machine lib in the world :)
 
last time I wrote C# was in 2004 in college
the only thing that I remember about it is that C# has properties and Java has not.
and everybody found C# better
 
11:27 AM
it's a solid start.
but C# generics and lambdas are way ahead of what Java offered and a long time before too
 
My last work was a shopping cart app in asp.net.
@Puppy don't think it had generics.
 
in 2k4 possibly not
 
I lost 20 pounds by doing ruby
 
Started learning C++ in 2004 in preparation for internship for a game company (Larian).
 
@MarcoA. :c
 
11:30 AM
I thought it was incredible that C++ allowed me to overload operators.
 
template must have been a breath of type-safe air after non-generic C#
 
Hm, I was mostly excited about copy-on-write.
lol
 
COW has not really proven to be that big a deal in many cases.
 
The idea that you could implement a fairly advanced resource management system without affecting the normal copy and assignment syntax.
Thing with C++ is that you can get too excited about certain aspects.
Esp as beginner.
 
Even as a non beginner.
 
11:38 AM
Like obsessing about always perfectly forwarding arguments.
 
I mean, Jesus, we all orgasmed at hearing that in 2013 we could use lambdas
 
Lambdas were worth the hype.
 
A concept that has been out there for at least 25 years now
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ Lambda was invented around ~1930.
 
@ʞɔᴉN Nah, his surname is ksomething :D
 
11:39 AM
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ I was using them in 2010.
 
and to be more accurate I never orgasmed at using them, since I was used to using them in Lua and had never really written C++ without them.
yep.
 
C++98 was so silly. STL was full of algorithms taking predicates but there was no lambda.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ I.. didn't.. .:|
 
personally I never had a problem with VS's C++11 support
and I thought it was ahead of GCCs really
they implemented fewer features but prioritized the ones that actually mattered, IMO
 
11:46 AM
I have a few places where I use decltype sfinae.
I would hate to give that up.
VS still doesn't support that, right?
 
yep
 
@ThePhD You're kinda trying to conform OGL to DX. Low level specifics need to be done behind a generalized functionality interface where you commit to however retarded the low-level specifics are. You need to specify an interface editors and games on-top of your engine will require and then make sure that the backing rendering API conforms to it. No effort on your part will make OGL pretty, you just need to make sure it works, works proper and the end user is properly hidden from the impl.
 
@StackedCrooked Ahahah, suckage
 
Wow, the slides are pretty good though. The section about treating types as values is mind-expanding.
 
11:57 AM
@StackedCrooked Everybody seems to hate that I did that for Wide
 
Well, you are not very likeable.
:P
Didn't know you did that for Wide.
 

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