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2:24 AM
This source code tool keeps pushing the bugs out... Actually Rebol 2 has the same problem.
@RebolBot delete
>> print mold tree
[root none [type root]
    [node1 [...] [content "node1-content"]]
    [node2 [...] [content "node2-content"]]
]
@RebolBot delete
print mold tree/4
[node1 [
        [...]
        [node2 [...] [content "node2-content"]]
    ] [content "node1-content"]]
Notice the corruption? Mold is getting confused.
The link above has a way to reproduce the issue.
 
Hey @iceflow19, long time no see. What's up?
 
@HostileFork Howdy! Sorry I haven't been around for a while, life drama ~sigh. I see @ShixinZeng ran Coverity over Ren-C. I have some experience with older versions of Coverity (when I was at Rockwell I wrote a system to automate Coverity runs) and have been through Coverity's own week long training seminar.
 
@RebolBot
load {[node1 [
        [...]
        [node2 [...] [content "node2-content"]]
    ] [content "node1-content"]]}
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== [node1 [
        [...]
        [node2 [...] [content "node2-content"]]
    ] [content "node1-content"]]
 
I need to go back and figure out where I left off on my different Rebol/Red projects.
 
2:37 AM
@HostileFork The [...] should be references to the containing block - see mold bug script
 
@Brett Hm, so you expect just [node1 [...] [content "node1-content"] correct?
 
@HostileFork How's Rebol been shaping up? I saw the announcement that the CC tickets were going to get moved.
 
@HostileFork Yep.
 
@iceflow19 Cool. Do you want an invitation to see the report?
 
@iceflow19 It moves along a little at a time. The focus still on terra firma and having all the implementation bits in line vs. features and demos.
Features and demos come easier when a system works on its basic premises and doesn't fall apart when you blow on it.
@iceflow19 Moving along on longstanding items. Now ANY-BLOCK! is ANY-ARRAY!, which helps for discussing things. A Rebol Array holds Rebol Values. That clears up the terminology problem with blocks both in Rebol code and in the C source code implementing it.
Going ahead and biting the bullet with LENGTH to replace LENGTH?, and the other operations getting -OF... so TYPE-OF instead of TYPE?.
 
2:45 AM
@ShixinZeng Sure, my email is iceflow19@gmail.com The one thing I was sortof impressed about with coverity is the ability to program your own analysis heuristics.
 
@iceflow19 sent
 
Thanks
@HostileFork Good idea with naming it ANY-BLOCK!
 
@iceflow19 renaming it...away...from ANY-BLOCK!...
 
Sorry meant to say any-array!
This is what happens when I start doing too many things at once ;)
 
@HostileFork I should add that I've added it to my little bug list and it's not critical, just confusing whenhomoiconicity get's broken.
 
2:57 AM
@Brett I'm definitely in favor of getting bugs fixed, although perhaps people could indicate their personal priority for things when they submit reports in the new bug system.
 
@HostileFork I see macros Trap*_DEAD_END, are they for shutting off clang analyser/coverity?
 
@ShixinZeng That or things like it; the compiler itself complains with warnings on if all paths don't return a value. comment on the matter
I think I don't like the combined Trap*_DEAD_END macros. I do like indicating that things are a dead end however to readers... trap doesn't always convey that very strongly. (And Rebol uses caps so much that TRAP wouldn't stand out any more.)
No great answer unfortunately. Maybe some way to make it look like a keyword via a macro.
 
I am looking at the coverity report, and found cases that it failed to figure out Trap will not return
So, I am thinking if we need to explicitly mark every Trap* as noreturn
 
3:13 AM
That may be a better solution if there is such an attribute. I still wonder if something as not-so-intimidating looking as Trap is good enough to cue someone reading the source that a path doesn't return.
Also, the name "Trap" I don't like, as I've taken that for the "catch" side and not the "throw" for errors.
Do_Arg_Error( ) vs. Trap_Arg( ), for instance.
 
GCC supports noreturn attribute
 
It might be good enough to say we only pay attention to the all-paths-don't-return-a-value error in some compilers, and make sure it works for some and coverity/clang analyzer tests...and not put lots of DEAD_END; in the code.
 
you can also put an annotation for this in coverity as well, I believe.
 
It definitely needs a review in any case, as I neither like using the word "Trap" nor do I like the _DEAD_END after having been around it a while.
I've also wondered if moving to using a variadic function would be nicer than the Trap1, Trap2 stuff.
The problem with variadics in C is you can't change them to macros
 
Sure, When I see Trap* and Trap_DEAD_END, I am thinking if all should be Trap*_DEAD_END
 
3:19 AM
The problem is that not all functions return a value
The fake return of 0 that works for most return types (not all) will make void functions unhappy
 
Yep, Adding return values to the macro would make it too long
 
The Trap* are for functions that return void, in any case.
If you want to make changes that don't involve renaming any of the function calls, that isn't a big deal probably, but I think we should think about what we'd want to replace all of them to before doing it and then having to undo it.
 
I am thinking of Trap*_RETURN_0, and Trap_NO_RETURN, which are ugly, but could serve the purpose
RETURN_0 for functions returning int
and NO_RETURN for void functions
 
Long, but attention-getting.
Although as I said, Rebol's too-much-in-caps source makes it hard for anything to stand out...though I'm planning on changing that to where macros are taken more seriously and used with scrutiny when they actually duplicate their arguments (or sometimes don't evaluate all their arguments...another difference from functions)
The problem with Trap_Arg_RETURN_0 is it suggests it returns when it doesn't. So it would have to be Trap_Arg_NO_RETURN_0.
"I don't return. But if I did... I'd return 0."
 
Yep, NO_RETURN_0 seems better
NO_RETURN_OR_0?
 
3:32 AM
I wonder if there's some other way.

#define exception /* something?  nothing? */

if (blahblahbadthing)
    exception Bad_Arg();
Something to help with the readability and noticeability issue so it doesn't just blend in.
Maybe excepti0n could return 0. :-)
If the traps themselves were defined to return 0, then in the returning case you could get away with that just being #define exception return
 
Right
But, it wouldn't work for functions returning void, would it?
OK. time to sleep
Good night
 
Nite! Thanks for the coverities...
#define exception (void)
#define exception0 return
Then make the trap functions return integer 0... use exception0 Bad_Arg(); to return 0, and use exception Bad_Arg() to suppress the unused result warning.
It's manual and nothing really stopping you from just calling Bad_Arg() and forgetting to say "exception", but as annotations go it's better than the DEAD_END was. And as macro hacks go, that's pretty clean.
I guess you can't have a function that returns an integer 0 and still have it work, because to be a pointer and be type correct it has to be the literal 0
 
3:51 AM
Hmm, excepction0 would help coverity to know it won't go beyond this point, but exception wouldn't
 
Well there are two different problems, one is the not all paths returning a value problem which is what DEAD_END was for
And in that case, the void returning situation isn't a concern.
If there are other analyses that need to know about a stopping point, that's another issue.
 
Probably we should just add "noreturn" attributes to the functions?
I think this should solve the not-all-path-returning problem and stopping point?
 
A combination of approaches could be in order, because I'm interested in readability at the callsites as well.
 
Sure, I am all for readability
 
And separating something two words like that looks kind of like a return or a throw.
It calls it out and would make people go "hey, something is going on here"
I think the _DEAD_END; and other stuff just kind of wound up lost in the noise and looking ugly
It disappointed me. :-) Anyway, I also think maybe going ahead and making the error-with-arguments function variadic is okay. That gets rid of the 1, 2, 3...
 
3:57 AM
beside throw, I am thinking of raise, which is not used in rebol
 
raise Arg_Error(); ... something like that could be good.
I think that DO for error is not so great, and maybe raise is needed.
 
Agreed
 
Well maybe we try some combination of this... sleep on it. :-)
TTYL
 
TTYL
 
4:16 AM
I wonder if alert is better than raise. Maybe alert could be sensitive to the type, so that if you pass it a string it just goes into a log but if you pass it an error it takes it more seriously and traps?
 
posted on August 27, 2015 by Nick

I'm in the process of writing a much more succinct tutorial, but in the meantime, I made a long winded video which shows my favorite way of building front end UIs for Rebol apps which can run on any platform: https://youtu.be/6yrDNluQSwo Here's the video description, to give an idea of what it's about: This is a general introduction to the Linb Javascript library and the Sigma Visual Builde

 
Not necessarily in the C sources, but in Rebol. alert "Hey I'm a message don't mind me, keep running..." ... alert make error! "I will actually stop execution."
I am reminded of my "throw disallows errors by default and you need to say /only to throw an error", due to the misunderstandings about throw.
alert/error [{Wouldn't it be} reverse {ecin} {if this were combine'd for you?}]
alert/error seems pretty nice to me.
 
print-binary: func [bin [binary!]][call/shell/wait/input "cat $STDIN" bin ()]
(on all good systems where cat is a thing, and not a thing with claws)
 
@rgchris I thought you said good systems...
What's new? Saw you merge'd up. Got things to report?
(is that one?)
 
@MarkI That seems ok.
@HostileFork Being polite.
@HostileFork No—just making sure that I'm testing against fresh source.
 
4:29 AM
Some fairly big changes in there, so expecting a few reports, want to get things fixed quickly to move on to the finishing of Coherence II so fun can start.
 
I've a few chunks of code that I run new builds against, haven't noticed any new breaks.
 
Good news
 
Sadly haven't been able to test aggressively—working on a project I want to be done.
 
Projects get done?
 
Will get done.
With.
And EVERYONE will be happy.
And me.
@rgchris @MarkI @HostileFork CAT aside, this is how PRIN (sic) should behave when encountering binary.
 
4:36 AM
Sounds good to me.
 
4:56 AM
Hm. In C, if you're writing the first half of a macro and you don't get a chance to terminate it...someone else is writing the expression to terminate... what kind of thing can you do that would constrain the type that expression could have?
Consider for instance #define foo false ? ((void)0) : (void)1 +. If you write foo bar(); then that means bar must be something that can participate in addition.
Any ideas? @iceflow19? @DaveAndersen? Anyone? Wait... Dave Andersen? From February 2014?? :-)
Welcome back. We're still here, apparently.
Anyway with my C question I'm wondering what the narrowest weirdest type you could do if you have slight control over the right hand side of the expression and want to limit what could be used. (Keyword simulation.) Wonder if people would hate that as an SO question or not.
 
hi, I am back. Did you remember me from before, or did the chat room let you know somehow?
 
@MarkI ^-- esoteric C exercise. Instead of "1 +" (which constrains the return result of bar() to any type that can be added to...) can you constrain to anything besides void? (using the ? : with a void on one side can force it to void, but I'm looking for something more esoteric that you wouldn't likely have a function returning already)
@DaveAndersen Search box.
You haven't filed your "right to be forgotten" paperwork yet, apparently.
 
@HostileFork makes sense :)
 
Things here move along, synchronized precisely to the Clock of the Long Now.
 
I've been lurking in the Gitter chat room lately also, just interested in what has been happening with Red
 
5:08 AM
Some GUI work of late, it would seem. On the Rebol side, still working on pinning down something more from a focus of stability and exploiting the benefits of a traditional toolchain.
And working through the terminology issues and design for what "goes in the box"
 
that is for R3?
 
@DaveAndersen A video of something I was working on... Ren Garden, cued past the boring bit about language binding to C++. Though that is actually not boring.
@DaveAndersen The branch we are currently focusing on is "codenamed" Ren/C, but the general gist of the hope is that it become the finishing of the unfinished Rebol3. (As opposed to trying to support some pre-Ren/C Rebol3 as a legacy thing...the only "legacy" we'd like to consider is Rebol2).
There aren't a terrible whole lot of Rebol2 codebases out there running in the wild, relatively speaking. But certainly more than Rebol3. And we're pretty sure we know all the Rebol3 ones to take into account.
 
5:29 AM
@HostileFork Thanks for the link. I've actually seen this before, but it seems worth watching again, as my understanding shifts over time
 
Cool. Well hopefully you're finding something interesting in that understanding.
for: func [
    {Execute a "C-style" FOR loop with an initialization, test, and step}
    init [block!] test [block!] step [block!] body [block!]
    /local out
] [
    init: context init
    while bind/copy test init
        bind compose/deep [
            set/any 'out (to paren! body)
            (step)
        ] init
    get/any 'out
]
@DaveAndersen ^-- there's something fairly interesting, for instance. That's a C-style for loop construct in Rebol.
So with that, you can write for [x: 10] [x < 20] [x: x + 1] [print x] or whatever.
And with upcoming changes, it even works properly with returns and such...as opposed to thinking you mean to return context-dependently from the FOR function itself. :-)
Jul 12 at 13:29, by rgchris
See also: Twitter, Etsy, S3...
 
I still have some things to learn about how context and binding work in these languages...
 
^-- check those out too, nice form... we can keep pushing and make them even nicer.
(I prefer reading that code in gray mode. Press the G key on the page for that. D for dark, L for light)
That has an interesting use for the TAG! datatype, as placeholders in the header where you can replace them with your credentials and API keys and such. Then the script has been customized for you. Clever.
 
actually, I'm a bit more interested in functional style, and thinking about how problems would be approached with dialects
 
In theory, however you like. One of my big axes to grind-- (and something that Red doesn't take as seriously as I'd like)--is that sometimes the dialect capabilities are overly biased toward dialecting Rebol/Red imperative code under its evaluator.
So I'm looking to remove as much of that "bias" as possible from the parts box.
 
5:42 AM
I have been wondering about whether there is a concept like 'yield' in Rebol/Red
 
@DaveAndersen Before I knew too much I made a little project called Rubol. I tried porting Ruby samples, I messed with one example of yield. I should look at it again.
 
TGD
How can I make an ibevel border/edge effect known from R2/View with r3gui?
 
>> collect [keep "Rebol and Red have collect/keep" loop 3 [keep "yup yup"]]
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== ["Rebol and Red have collect/keep" "yup yup" "yup yup" "yup yup"]
 
@DaveAndersen And an interesting thing about collect is that it's user code, not built in. :-)
>> source collect
 
5:45 AM
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
collect: make function! [[
    {Evaluates a block, storing values via KEEP function, and returns block of collected values.}
    body [block!] "Block to evaluate"
    /into {Insert into a buffer instead (returns position after insert)}
    output [series!] "The buffer series (modified)"
][
    unless output [output: make block! 16]
    do func [keep] body func [value [any-type!] /only] [
        output: apply :insert [output :value none none only]
        :value
 
That could actually be prettier, I'm working on a feature to help it be so.
 
5:56 AM
@TGD I'm afraid no one here at present would know...maybe @GrahamChiu is around and would... (or maybe @rebolek)
 
@HostileFork does RebolBot have a bunch of extra features defined somewhere, or does it allow assignment statements from the chat room?
 
22
Q: RebolBot - a chat bot for the chat rooms

Graham Chiu RebolBot is a chat bot with a natural English dialect interface, specifically targeting the StackOverflow chat rooms. Yet it has a modular design, can post tweets to Twitter, and could be modified with only a little effort to work with other chat systems. An instance of the bot hangs out...

I don't know quite what the state of features is lately, hasn't gotten much exercise outside of the evaluations. Had a bit of a downtime when they switched the SO site authorization protocol...
red> print "Don't forget me!"
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
Don't forget me!
 
@HostileFork cool, thanks!
 
TGD
@HostileFork I asked a Q at SO ( stackoverflow.com/questions/32241658/…) for that issue and now I stay tuned and waiting for an answer.
 
6:04 AM
@TGD Good. :-) You might edit it to show, for those who don't know and might use different search terms, what the Rebol2 code you are looking to emulate would look like.
Questions tagged "rebol" will get picked up by the room feed automatically (after a small delay)
@TGD I don't know if you're running Ren/C yet, but there continues to be news, if it interests you...
Line continuing textmode console someday shortly, here, soon.
 
TGD
@HostileFork I didn't built your Ren/C on my Raspberry Pi sofar, as I am very busy atm. I am developing an irrigation system based on rebol3 for the Raspberry Pi with touchdisplay support. If this project is finished, I'll drop a short note here.
 
6:19 AM
@TGD Ok, let us know.
 
2
Q: Rebol 3 What are the available border effects for r3gui?

TGDI know how to adjust the size of the border within r3gui: view [ b: box 800x400 red options [ box-model: 'frame border-size: [4x2 2x4] ] ] But how can I make an ibevel border/edge effect known from R2/View with r3gui?

 
6:34 AM
@TGD Look at source of button or field styles for example. There's no border/edge in R3GUI (yet?) so you need to define your own edges directly in the draw block.
 
 
2 hours later…
8:29 AM
@Morwenn Interesting C trickery...
 
Where? :o
 
	#define RAISE_PREP_ALWAYS_FALSE(file,line) \
		((TG_Fail_File = (file)) && (1 + (TG_Fail_Line = (line))) \
		&& (TG_Fail_Prep = FAIL_PREP_PANIC) != FAIL_PREP_RAISE)

	#define PANIC_PREP_ALWAYS_FALSE(file,line) \
		((TG_Fail_File = (file)) && (1 + (TG_Fail_Line = (line))) \
		&& (TG_Fail_Prep = FAIL_PREP_PANIC) != FAIL_PREP_PANIC)

#define raise \
	RAISE_PREP_ALWAYS_FALSE(__FILE__, __LINE__) ? NOOP :

#define panic \
	PANIC_PREP_ALWAYS_FALSE(__FILE__, __LINE__) ? NOOP :
Now... raise Error(code, arg1, arg2); or panic Error(code, arg1, arg2);
One ties into the longjmp-based trappable error handling, the other will printf-style output with no fancy error object and crash out
Yet they both can use the same error mechanism.
Aaaaand... the error object can encode file and line numbers in the debug build. (That's the debug definition of RAISE_PREP / PANIC_PREP
 
Took me a bit of time to understand the 1 + thingy.
 
By using a ternary operation, you assure that you can't say raise ...; for any ... that doesn't evaluate to void.
(with NOOP as a cast of 0 to void)
 
Interesting ^^
 
8:33 AM
Add in variadic Error() function returning void and... pretty nice looking exceptions in C.
Error() clears the prep type before longjmp'ing... and asserts that the prep type isn't FAIL_PREP_UNPREPARED.
So you can't use Error() without a raise or panic.
 
9:02 AM
I will have to check whether I can tweak my C exceptions system to use that trick :D
 
9:41 AM
@Morwenn Check the final code before you do, that was just the start of the idea so mistakes. :-)
 
 
2 hours later…
11:24 AM
@rgchris That is awesome to hear, thanks muchly. I'll be back with another teaser, the implementation is happening too slowly.
@rgchris Hm. You do know that that's not how it worked in R2, right? Also, that code will produce different output, from the same binary, depending on what encoding the shell uses. I assume you desire that; it's just that the "encoding" concept is not present in R3, and I wonder if you are arguing for that too.
 
12:14 PM
@HostileFork I repeat, IMO preserving these legacy "inconsistencies" has worth, if only in not unjustifiably antagonizing the R2 user.
Putative "new users will find it better" arguments do not convince me, since they are semantically identical to "I think it's better."
But I know how much you like the taste of bullets, HF, so, charge on, my friend.
 
posted on August 27, 2015 by NickA

I made a video demonstrating how to use the jsLinb library and Sigma Visual Builder to quickly create UIs which connect with Rebol CGI server apps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yrDNluQSwo The tools above are an older precursor to CrossUI, but I like them because they're free and open source, really light weight, and not only the created apps, but also the entire development system run vir

 
 
3 hours later…
2:52 PM
LLVM/CMake 75% built with MinGW. I hope that there won't be annoying errors ^^"
 
3:51 PM
posted on August 27, 2015 by qtxie

FIX: not allocate enough memory in alloc-tail-unit by qtxie

 
@MarkI Not really bothered by how the shell handles it—that's a matter for the shell environment. Most shell environments that use utf-8 just throw question marks for e.g. print-binary #{DECAFBAD} and that's fine!
It's not how Rebol 2 did it, but it should have! But R2 had an output port, so it didn't matter as much.
 
4:08 PM
@rgchris Well, OK, but that's not what you were asking for before. Please confirm you are saying print-binary #{DECAFBAD} pumping to the console the twelve bytes #{EFBFBDEFBFBDEFBFBDEFBFBD} (UTF-8 four black question marks) is fine.
 
No, four bytes! It is what I was asking for!
Partially—I was suggesting reinstating SYSTEM/PORTS/OUTPUT (and ERROR for that matter).
Remember—the console is only one output target. Another might be call/output "ren-c my-image-generator.reb" image: #{}
 
4:39 PM
I'm just telling you what will happen when you send those four bytes to the console. They will be converted into the twelve bytes I mentioned (or similar) and then those converted bytes will be placed into the console, so you will see four question marks.
Here is a transcript that shows what I am talking about hopefully:
$ echo -n I agr >unicode.txt
$ echo -n -e "\xc3\xa9\xc3\xa8" >>unicode.txt
$ echo -n ' with you.' >>unicode.txt
$ hexdump -C unicode.txt
00000000  49 20 61 67 72 c3 a9 c3  a8 20 77 69 74 68 20 79  |I agr.... with y|
00000010  6f 75 2e                                          |ou.|
00000013
$ cat unicode.txt
I agréè with you.
$ !iconv
iconv -f UTF-8 -t ISO-8859-1 unicode.txt >latin-1.txt
$ hexdump -C latin-1.txt
00000000  49 20 61 67 72 e9 e8 20  77 69 74 68 20 79 6f 75  |I agr.. with you|
00000010  2e                                                |.|
As you can see, the two "input bytes" #{E9E8} show up in the last line (I cut and pasted from the console into that last line) as the six "output bytes" of #{E29692E29692}.
This is the (correct) behaviour for any utf-8 console, which is what R3 is.
 
5:17 PM
0
Q: How to open and close different windows at the same time?

fadelm0I'm still new to rebol and programming in general, and I'm trying to write a program for practice. In this program, there is a main window, which includes a button with which I want to open a new window, and close the main window at the same time. Now, I know how to do each function separately,...

 
5:29 PM
@HostileFork the C++ program I'm working on is memory leaking somewhere. any tips for debugging?
 
5:43 PM
@AlexanderGuo Valgrind would have been the usual go-to but Address Sanitizer is built into GCC and Clang nowadays, and can catch leaks code.google.com/p/address-sanitizer/wiki/LeakSanitizer too.
 
@rgchris program-that-produces-raw-image-data-on-stdout | rebol image-magic.r | program-that-displays-raw-image-data-from-stdin may not happen. As I briefly mentioned before, program-that-produces-raw-image-data-on-stdout | 3<&2 rebol image-magic-reads-from-raw-port-3-and-writes-to-raw-port-4.r 2>&4 | program-that-displays-raw-image-data-from-stdin may be the best you're going to get.
Wups. I misnumbered file descriptor 1 as file descriptor 2. If you change both 2's to 1's then it's right, I think.
 
6:24 PM
Nope. The first 2 should be a 0. The second 2 should be a 1. I am just not very good at computer stuff at all ... :)
And .r should be .reb :)
 
@GrahamChiu ! I'm alive ;-)
 
@giuliolunati Hey giulio! How are you? Have you seen the information regarding Ren/C?
 
@HostileFork Hello Fork!
Don't.
 
@Morwenn @iceflow19 @earl In the analyzers available, is there anything for adding your own rules... like "every call to this routine should have a NULL at the end"? Something for simple patterns?
@giuliolunati It's probably good advice for most things regardless...but...still, Don't what? :-)
 
@HostileFork Of course, but then you need to compile the analyzer again.
 
6:37 PM
I was hoping for something not requiring building one's own analyzer...
 
I'm checking...
flint does not support custom rules.
 
I forgot that C was bad at variadic functions and doesn't know where the list ends.
It's a tradeoff if you want to make Error_0() Error_1() Error_2() and omit the NULL at the end of the list (and avoid the risk of omission) vs have the variadic. I guess you can do both.
 
You can do many things with variadic macros, but not in C89 nor in C++03.
CppCheck can be fed config files to give more information about the libraries that are being used by the analyzed files.
I don't really know what can be done with them though.
 
Trying to program everything using an antiquated language and doing everything super basically...but then pulling out complex analysis tools...is sort of like being Amish where you have a rule that you're only going to use hand tools and technologies that were available 200 years ago or prior. But in one room of your barn you have a bunch of computers you use to plan and map what you're going to do with those tools.
 
Hey, there a --std option in CppCheck. I didn't know :o
Including a --std=posix for POSIX extensions.
 
6:47 PM
posted on August 27, 2015 by BED822

[Reddit] Create Red_Script that act like PHP/Perl/Ruby(Rails)/Python(Django) Have encoding systems like base32, base64, base85 and base9 Have word encoding system like PGP, S/KEY and BIP wordlists Create Red_Scheme that acts like Clojure/Haskell/Erlang/Scala Have LLVM and parrot ccompatibility similar to JVM and CLR (6. A ggolfing script easter egg similar to Golfscript and Scripting) Allow bi

0
A: How to open and close different windows at the same time?

Heman'view starts an event loop - so no code executes after that until the window `view opened closes. To start a new window without that happening, use `view/new - then to start the event loop when you are ready, 'do-events

 
7:07 PM
@HostileFork gtk-demo.r stopped working again. I fixed some issues, and it runs. But after a few random clicks, it crashed with this:
=================================================================
==10636==ERROR: AddressSanitizer: heap-use-after-free on address 0x60200003e890 at pc 0x0000004a778c bp 0x7fffffff9d50 sp 0x7fffffff9d40
READ of size 4 at 0x60200003e890 thread T0
#0 0x4a778b in Manuals_Leak_Check_Debug /home/zsx/work/r3.git/src/core/m-pools.c:1181
#1 0x42eff9 in Do_Error /home/zsx/work/r3.git/src/core/c-error.c:305
#2 0x4884ae in Scan_Error /home/zsx/work/r3.git/src/core/l-scan.c:637
#3 0x48eb7b in Scan_Block /home/zsx/work/r3.git/src/core/l-scan.c:1469
@HostileFork I wonder if this Manuals_Leak_Check_Debug should be removed
 
@ShixinZeng Hmmm, I guess it might. If the person who traps handles their cleanup it wouldn't be a problem.
So PUSH_TRAP, then allocate something, then free it after the trap, then end command = okay. But is this one of those cases?
(in other words, I can see why that check might be too aggressive... but I am not sure if taking it out would stop it from asserting at a later point)
 
The assertion failure comes from:
REBSER *args = Copy_Values_Len_Shallow(
DSF_NUM_ARGS(DSF) > 0 ? DSF_ARG(DSF, 1) : NULL,
DSF_NUM_ARGS(DSF)
);
assert(VAL_FUNC_NUM_PARAMS(routine) == DSF_NUM_ARGS(DSF));
Call_Routine(routine, args, DSF_OUT(DSF));
Free_Series(args);
args is unmanaged, while Mannuals_Leak_Check is done inside Call_Routine
I think the checking is just too early
 
Manuals_Leak_Check is okay to call if it captures the list inside... e.g. each leak check grabs the head of the list, and then asserts that. So it's okay to have some manuals leak checks. That one just happens to poke up to a frame it did not push.
It is checked at the end of each Dispatch_Call, relative to the state that the call was when it began.
But you cannot trap with any outstanding manuals that you allocated still out.
 
Let me reread the code, and digest what's happening here
 
Feel free to clarify comments or otherwise if you figure anything out that isn't clear enough.
 
7:33 PM
@giuliolunati There has also been success building Rebol with TCC, and there is a build process which makes Rebol without using GNU make... it does a full build of Rebol driven by Rebol. So we are considering what it would take to build a hybrid Rebol that is also an ANSI-C compiler...which could be the sole tool used to build itself (if you didn't care to need an optimized build).
With FFI you could then build a string of C source code into a library, load it, and call it from Rebol. So a "full stack" sort of tool like what Red aims to do.
Greetings @Heman (no relation to He-Man, I assume :-) ). As you probably note, you need 20 points to chat... but one more upvote and you will be there...
1
A: How to open and close different windows at the same time?

Hemanview starts an event loop - so no code executes after that until the window view opened closes. To start a new window without that happening, use view/new - then to start the event loop when you are ready, do-events

@Heman It takes a little while for reputation changes to reach the chat servers anyway. In the meantime, you can read some news about Ren/C, the state of the various forks of Rebol, and set your StackOverflow avatar
 
7:52 PM
@HostileFork i have been missing ren garden... when(tentatively) will dev pick back up?
 
@JacobGood1 After "Coherence II", which is not too far away. That's my goal to finish the not-fun-infrastructure-work and return to more fun things.
I'd like to see what progress can be made with an integrated editor and debugger.
The dialecting and other tricks offers all kinds of interesting things that could be done with a debugger... yet we've never seen one!
 
hehe it would be nice to have a debugger...
editor...
standard tools of every other @#$% language...
 
Yup. Well, just give me a second.
 
I am so glad you exist =)
 
:-)
 
7:57 PM
unless this is all in my head and I am typing on a blank screen right now
 
The thing is that I knew, from the moment of reading the released source for Rebol, that it was a kind of a ball of mud. And I didn't want to fix it. So I thought "okay, how about none of us bother to touch the Rebol C source and call it mostly dead...but we agree to poke at it to upgrade it for some experiments as we hammer out the Red language spec..."
 
and then you got carried away...
 
Well, the options weren't looking promising. DocKimbel did not see the problems with Rebol2 the same way I did, and didn't have interest in basic repairs to the language. In his mind Rebol2 was a good product...its failures were slow speed and closed source.
A faster open-sourced language that was more-or-less-like-Rebol2, which allowed him to complete his server architecture as laid out in Cheyenne/Uniserve, and which could be sold via repeating the VID model on Android... would be a big hit. It wouldn't matter if it had REMOLDs and lots of WAT and black holes.
So I was sort of cornered, and then Ren/C++ came out looking much more interesting than I'd expected it to.
 
@MarkI Not just image data—might be compressed data, etc. My more immediate need is for CGI.
 
Well, as of right now, c++ is a lot better than red/system because of all the tools, imo... which makes ren/c quite attractive
I def like the syntax of reds but it is a very raw coding experience,especially for someone like me
 
8:06 PM
BTW HF I just found CHECK_STACK() and Check_Stack() ... there's a candidate for renaming ... which you've probably already done.
 
I expect all will get fixed... in about 10+ years
 
Something Red-like is needed, and something Rebol-like is needed to build it.
 
@JacobGood1 Such an optimist!
 
well, I have been waiting for quite some time now
 
8:07 PM
@JacobGood1 If you've been waiting for < 15 years, no, you haven't :)
@HostileFork Perfect, awesome, as expected.
 
of course hostile has made it much more hopeful than before
and doc
guys that actually do something about the situation instead of qqin all day while doing jack
like me
 
@JacobGood1 Every day is an opportunity for change. :-) Speaking of which, how's the SDL stuff?
 
it was going fine but I got tired of messing with it
I got it working with directx and opengl
but now I am using glfw and c++
ill be revisiting again when the tools improve a little
I found two internal bugs in reds
 
It's fun, they were having a performance vs. safety debate in the C++ lounge a few minutes ago.
 
although I am glad I contributed to fixing reds, I do not really care to mess with it for now(well see I will prob mess with it some more)
afk
 
8:16 PM
@Morwenn American thing, and before your time: tastes great! less filling!
Using C++, you get both...though the compiler is slow.
 
And the static analyzer even slower...
 
I think I showed you the TCC stats for building Rebol earl got
 
The principle of C++ is to overthink things to have 0-overhead abstractions. So of course the work has to be done somewhere else :p
@HostileFork Yeah, fast compilation but slow executable? :p
 
Could be a good tradeoff for some situations.
 
@MarkI The console is a red herring—yes Rebol's strings are utf-8, yes Rebol's interface with STDOUT is through strings, and when using the console that's where STDOUT goes, but there should also be a binary interface with STDOUT: that's what I'm looking for. As far as I'm aware, STDOUT is encoding neutral—Rebol currently just doesn't have a mechanism for pumping individual bytes down there.
 
8:22 PM
@HostileFork On the other hand, many of its optimizations simply don't work in a non-compiled language.
Interpreted languages can benefit from JIT compilation and on-the-fly code statistics though.
 
@Morwenn Blah. If you have numbered variants like Error0(c), Error1(c, a1), Error2(c, a1, a2)... what do you call a vararg version that must have a null termination? Error(c, ...) seems to easy to make a mistake and leave off the null. Error_Null(c, ...) is weird but at least makes a reader cognizant that a null is needed. Error_Args(c, ...) cues you that it's an arg list and maybe you'll think of the termination.
Basically how to communicate Error_With_Null_Terminated_Arglist(c, ...) without writing that much.
 
You can write a macro to dispatch variadic parameters, but it only works with variadix macros...
That's one of the tricks I used to overload method on the number of parameters in my C99 vector template.
 
Still playing the C89 game. As mentioned, the interest in the game isn't so much building for old platforms anymore, but rather lowering the bar for the complexity of the compiler used.
Wonder how much smaller TCC could be if you #ifdef'd it down to take out C99 features...
(or if they're too woven in to remove)
 
@HostileFork I'm drinking beer right now. But not that light :p
 
Oh that's right, they let the kids drink beer over in your part of the world... :-P
 
8:35 PM
Kids? xD
I would be old enough to drink beer in Saudi Arabia.
Well, maybe not in Saudi Arabia, but at least in the US.
 
Joking
 
That said, there are still people who are convinced that I'm not 20 and I was even asked my ID card to check whether I was old enough to buy alcohol 6 months ago.
Well, then she had a second look at me and said "no, actually that's ok", but that means that she thought that I may not be 18 at first.
 
With this error change, the Rebol C sources are actually...maybe...starting to become almost legible.
 
 
1 hour later…
9:48 PM
@HostileFork Interesting! And which source can I watch to atm? Github rebol/rebol seems died ....
 
@giuliolunati github.com/metaeducation/ren-c is the repository where work is being done...
@Morwenn Not sure what this WeatherVane person's problem is: stackoverflow.com/q/32259543/211160
 
@HostileFork Seems like that person's having a bad day or something...
 
Hm, originally it looks like the refinement for a try handler was called /recover
try/recover [...] [...] instead of try/except [...] [...]
trap and trap/with is still better.
 
@HostileFork Very exciting!! +1 +1 +1
 
@giuliolunati If you have any of the old energy left :-) we are in a better position now to use it.
 
10:03 PM
Sure!! Now I'll go try it on Android :-)
 
@giuliolunati Awesome! Improve whatever you see that needs improving!
The build process in general is going to undergo change soon. @ShixinZeng has done some CMake work, @earl has done some build-with-Rebol work, and we haven't sat down to put it all together into a coherent answer just yet.
 
@giuliolunati If you know anything about CMake, you might look at: github.com/metaeducation/ren-c/pull/54 ... and to see the Rebol initiative there is build.reb which I don't know where the latest version of is...
 
10:43 PM
Uhmm... I think CMake not available under Android ... my goal is to build directly on phone.
 
@giuliolunati Ah, well then that sounds a great candidate for the Rebol-based build script...
We would like to see it that Rebol can build itself completely with no other tool, like Red aims to. Then it may be that "Rebol/Only" doesn't have a C compiler in it. :-) But a default that can build itself as well as extension code on the platform and dynamically run it is a pretty killer feature.
 
10:58 PM
Having mulled the issue for a while now, I continue to think that RETURN not taking an argument by default makes sense. It naturally fits it in with BREAK and CONTINUE as a control-affecting function.
The idea that we assume that return takes a value by default and break does not (for example) is something that isn't so much about what the word means or what it suggests, but an expectation built up from certain languages. Because you can return without a value, the standalone word is meaningful.
Yet when operations like BREAK can take a /WITH then RETURN having a similar addition, to say RETURN/WITH makes sense. "I want you to return. Oh, and when you return... take this value with you."
 
why not Exit as a return without a value?
 
(1) I don't think that's what exit connotes as we've talked about here, (2) it adds another word that needs to be "special" and definitionally scoped in its binding on a per-function basis, (3) there are some other interesting uses for the word EXIT
Every function in defintionally-scoped-return-land (that isn't <transparent>) has an "extra local".
It has two, but at present one is not named. I think that functions need a way to speak about both themselves and the context that was in effect... some kind of SELF and SUPER combination...or similar.
That makes it a little weird because when you want to talk about the object a function gets defined in you'd write super/x instead of self/x. Or maybe SELF could be a function and have a refinement. self/parent/x
Anyway, different topic.
 
11:33 PM
forked ren-c, built it in Linux, all right
next step: Android
 
yip....!
 

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