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7:05 AM
the new stuffs in C# 6 are really cool
how do they manage to make this language even more pretty
 
namespace too large, looks fugly
 
what too what?
 
C# looks too verbose for my tastes
 
it looks OK to me, and C# 6 reduces even more of the verbosity
 
Is PIMPL still state of the art?
 
7:17 AM
try { … }
catch (MyException e) if (myfilter(e))
{
 …
}
//If the parenthesized expression evaluates to true, the catch block is run, otherwise the exception keeps going.
woot
first time I see something like this
> Exception filters are preferable to catching and rethrowing because they leave the stack unharmed.
 
@AlexM. WTF? Is that real C++?
 
20 mins ago, by Alex M.
the new stuffs in C# 6 are really cool
 
@AlexM. Oh, C#?
 
yep
 
Morning
 
7:28 AM
should I use boost::alignment::aligned_allocator + std::vector` or just use free?
 
Lol using free
 
but the C++ way is harder, and involves boost
 
It actually works
Also there's nothing stopping you from writing your own aligned allocator
Also compared to manually figuring out when to free everything and figuring out all the double frees it's very easy, not hard
 
7:45 AM
@Mikhail Where did you get an over-aligned type? And are you sure your implementation's std::allocator doesn't support it?
 
8:00 AM
@AlexM. Meh, throw; rethrows without touching the stack, this is not very useful sugar
Format strings are cooler
Read-only auto properties are p useful
There's expression body for methods and properties now but that doesn't save much
?. is great
 
user1804599
8:19 AM
Hello, morning!
 
When did C# proposals become collaborative?!
 
8:33 AM
@rightfold MOANING
@buttifulbuttefly Since C++ proposals have been laborious :)
 
user1804599
C# is really bad.
 
user1804599
I wonder what happens when you do cat x >> x.
 
@rightfold bad like sugar
 
user1804599
8:38 AM
I want to design and implement a language like Bash but less terrible and stricter.
 
user1804599
Handling errors, managing jobs and interpolating strings is a complete disaster in the existing ones I've used.
 
user1804599
Also string literals are pretty much horrible.
 
Allow only integer literals then
 
user1804599
lol
 
user1804599
Z shell's glob is superb, though, and I would like to not have to reimplement that, but of course Z shell was written by morons and the glob feature uses hard dependencies and global variables all over the place, so it's not reusable.
 
8:43 AM
Contradiction detected. Likes Perl, says Bash is terrible
 
user1804599
Perl is really nice.
 
String interpolation in Bash is done right, I'd say
(well, I find it useful and unsurprising)
 
user1804599
How do you do escape characters in Bash strings?
 
user1804599
Seems you can use backslash for some things.
 
user1804599
But there's no \n or \t.
 
8:47 AM
not or using "standard \"issue\" backslashes"
echo -e "context matters\r\n"
 
user1804599
> Words in the form "$'STRING'" are treated in a special way. The word expands to a string, with backslash-escaped characters replaced as specified by the ANSI-C standard. Backslash escape sequences can be found in the Bash documentation.
 
Oh. That's esoteric. Never uesd that
 
user1804599
Redirection is incomprehensible.
 
user1804599
2>&1 redirects stderr to stdout. OK
 
user1804599
So you'd think &n would always refer to file descriptor n. However, cat > &1 is a syntax error.
 
user1804599
8:53 AM
Also echo 2 >&1 is different.
 
"So you'd think" - fallacy. Again, I refer to Perl.
Your points are very very moot there
 
user1804599
No, it's called consistency and it's a feature programming languages should have.
 
You'd not think. And yes, in redirection &n refers to fds. cat > &1 isn't in redirection. Whitespace is significant.
 
You could add conspiracy to Mill
 
user1804599
Significant whitespace is a disaster.
 
8:55 AM
Tell that to perl.
It's not like < = > still works or something
 
user1804599
I like Perl.
 
user1804599
But that doesn't mean Perl is perfect.
 
So. How do you explain complaining about languages that are arguably a lot less burdened for the same reasons that could easily demolish Perl on sight?
 
my preordered food is on the way
there should be like a pre-normal schedule schedule for specific clients
so the food is in early access
 
user1804599
Perl combines features nicely and has a community that doesn't consist of solely Dunning–Krugers, UUOC/performance bigots and barteks.
 
9:00 AM
lol
 
not sure if I should die, croke, or confess my love
 
user1804599
Die, my love.
 
what is a Donning-Kruger?
 
Ell
when you think you're the dogs bollocks
 
user1804599
9:05 AM
@JohanLarsson MySQL
 
user1804599
Perform a SELECT query once and you're a database expert!
 
Ell
The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability to be much higher than is accurate. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their ineptitude. Conversely, highly skilled individuals tend to underestimate their relative competence, erroneously assuming that tasks which are easy for them are also easy for others. As David Dunning and Justin Kruger of Cornell University conclude: "The miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas...
 
@Ell what kind of person would associate himself with dog testicles
 
Ell
Someone with dunning-kruger bias :P
 
9:26 AM
@sehe you dance well.
 
thank you
 
user1804599
Also, it's highly annoying you cannot put redirection operators and || and && on the beginning of the next line.
 
de rien
 
user1804599
Instead you need to put it at the end of the previous line or use a backslash.
 
@rightfold you mean, "can not"?
 
user1804599
9:29 AM
brb shower
 
{
     some devious command
} >&6
@rightfold don't you hate when that happens
@rightfold or
some devious command \
&& some dependent command \
> &6
 
9:42 AM
Recently ran into these. Pretty hilarious
 
morning
 
@sehe lol
 
man we have an old topic
 
We have a sock puppy
 
hi sock puppy
 
9:45 AM
Also. I like that the topic no longer gets smashed around. It's only unneeded
 
well
SO's chat is a bit shit on a small screen
40px of padding wasted and another 40px of junk
I cracked open Chrome's inspector and fixed a few things
 
@sehe nice
 
socket puppy
 
user1804599
@sehe both are incredibly ugly.
 
sock kitty
 
9:52 AM
@rightfold stop complaining! Make something better?
 
user1804599
Yes, that's what I am trying to do.
 
but then he'd actually need to make something ;p
 
:'( ... truth, hurts ... unaccomplished people ...
 
come on Lounge entertain me
 
user1804599
Also, non-zero exit status should by default exit.
 
10:01 AM
Okay.
"Peace bitch"
@chmod711telkitty you're talking in your sleep again
 
pfft integer exit codes
 
user1804599
If you go get a time machine and convince Ritchie to do it differently, be my guest.
 
thanks
I will do
 
Preparing for major rip in time
 
the end of the world
 
10:05 AM
 
damnit
I left the time machine back in civilization
 
user1804599
Then it's integer exit codes for you.
 
well, there some libraries that do this: void foo(&status)
 
... lounge<boring>
 
10:31 AM
oh I get it now. Everyone's off celebrating father's day
Everything makes sense now.
Laterz
 
Last night I had a dream about being interviewed by Walter Bright for a potential a C job. He asked me to list some quirks of C. I didn't get very far, and suddenly everybody was running a marathon, and Scott Meyers was also there, but then somebody shot Scott's dog, and Scott got angry and swore revenge. I don't think I got the job.
For the record, I told Walter that I found it weird that C allows you to cast a pointer-to-struct to a pointer-to-first-member, when you could just as well write &(p->member).
He asked me whether those parentheses were necessary, and I didn't know.
Note to self: Don't watch Walter's keynotes at 3 o'clock in the night.
 
My relationship with agar.io: Wake up in the morning, start a round enthusiastically, get to a decent score, fuck up, rage, search half the internet for fucking cheats, calm down and try again in five hours.
I'm currently in the calming down bit.
Fuck agar.io, fucking cheaters, all of them
Nah, they're good guys. It's alright.
@fredoverflow I had a dream with lightness in a house, running down the stairs.
 
10:53 AM
> This user has been automatically suspended for posting inappropriate content and cannot chat for 29 minutes.
 
Hi all,
I'd love to here any feed back on my C++11 project github.com/corvusoft/restbed
 
@Corvusoft why would you want to use C++ for this?
Also, why would I use this and not boost?
Also, why are you passing a pointer to the handler?
Why would you not use boost::async or libuv?
Oh wait, it's based off github.com/corvusoft/asio-dependency
 
I choose to write this project after being disappointed with the available options (PICO, lighttpd, etc...). The project utilise asio (non boost version) under the hood.
 
Yes, but why C++ in the first place?
 
11:13 AM
why not
Why do you have to shit on his language usage?
 
@Rapptz I'm asking a question, I didn't shit on his language usage...
 
you got an answer and you pegged him for it again
 
@Ell yeah. It was a spot laggy, and Jeffery seemed to constantly nearly timing out.
 
how is that not shitting on his language usage?
 
` cannot serialize a bytes object larger than 4 GiB` <--- Python problems
 
11:16 AM
@Rapptz no, I asked why C++, he answered an earlier "why not a library", I'm wondering what he's using this C++ server for in the first place.
I'm sorry if it sounded disrespectful but if you read carefully you'll see that I didn't at any point shit on his project or language usage.
 
I don't see why not.
Is it because you find it easier in other languages?
How come he can't make a library to make it easier in C++ for himself then? I don't quite get it.
Questioning the language usage seems so off topic to me considering it isn't exactly super outlandish. I mean if it was something like using JSON as a programming language or something sure but C++?
 
user1804599
> async
 
user1804599
death
 
user1804599
R.I.P.
 
Also, why are you passing a pointer to the handler? - Issue resolved.
 
11:19 AM
@Rapptz I wanted to know what he's using it for.
 
@Rapptz As in, he chose C++ for a server-side language which is a very unorthodox choice (except for low level stuff) and I wanted to know why. Sorry if it left the wrong impression.
 
@sehe LMAO.
 
meh long day
under get_header you do a lot of overloading
it's a bit weird cause a template could be used there
a lot of these functions are just copy paste
 
@Rapptz Agreed, will take note and raise task to resolve.
 
11:27 AM
alright imma go
sorry if I seemed like an angry guy
good luck with your project
 
calculating the gyprock needed inside using the available sizes is interesting, an hour of useful planning can save 5 hours extra work on cut & fitting the gyprock :p
 
SJD
guys, this channel treats also openGL issues? :)
 
SJD
or strictly C++
great ok
 
@SJD You should see a doctor to have your OpenGL issues treated.
 
11:35 AM
psychiatrist you mean :p
 
@BartekBanachewicz lol, none taken. I shoudn't have settled just next to 3 enemy bases
@BartekBanachewicz It's just that I didn't get to really know the tech tree, and you seemed to be already ahead of where I was in the solo campaign, so I wanted to start over
 
Ell
11:51 AM
Yeah once you have the tech tree factorio gets boring IMHO
Once youve unlocked it
 
Yeah, but I found out you can restart from the beginning and make all the same mistakes while designing and it's still fun
My first factory was very fun
I just built stuff wherever goes
 
Ell
I build my factories as compact as possible
 
Spaghetti code in Factorio form
 
Ell
Yup :P
It takes ages to refactor
 
I don't bother with that stuff :D
 
Ell
11:58 AM
Maybe we need some design patterns :P
 
They're already there
Go to any hint forum
 
Then Factorio probably isn't expressive enough by itself.
Does it have higher order factories?
 
SJD
@fredoverflow why?
 
Because Patterns = Sucky Language
 
@fredoverflow Yup
 
Ell
12:01 PM
Does anyone here have experience with Eric's ranges?
 
SJD
@fredoverflow no, no , I mean >> You should see a doctor to have your OpenGL issues treated.
 
@Ell Who is Eric?
 
Ell
Eric neibler
 
SJD
I bet no doctor knows anything about openGL
 
Ell
Hmm Eric Niebler maybe
 
12:02 PM
@SJD Then you did you not respond the that message?
 
Ell
Eric N(?:ei|is)bler
 
Your lack of arrows disturbs me
 
SJD
@fredoverflow what message?
 
Oct 13 '14 at 12:53, by Andy Prowl
@foobarbecue No problem. Also, when you want to reply to a specific message, use the arrow on the right - otherwise it will be linked to the last message by the user you're pinging, which is confusing
 
Ell
12:04 PM
Thanks
 
@SJD One of my undergrads will be going to med-school, he did OpenGL for me.
 
SJD
@Mikhail Meh, those people are not pleased with only 1 domain of study. They need more.. and they are pretty rare..
 
@fredoverflow It has blueprints as a way of automatic copy-paste. But that's it, customisations you add either by modifying manually or more blueprints. So no higher-order factories for you.
 
So... boilerplate macros? :)
 
Yeah
 
12:11 PM
 
Sure they are. They are big, but small enough to be included in the language in this century
You can't say that about modules or concepts
 
$ man cat
lol
 
You can cat man, too.
Don’t think bat man works as well though
 
Xeo
mornin
...
 
@LucDanton Kathmandu?
@LucDanton cat: man: No such file or directory
 
12:21 PM
cat.man.do
cat man do
 
@fredoverflow Not if you touch man first...
 
real man does man (ask for directions)
A man page (short for manual page) is a form of online software documentation usually found on a Unix or Unix-like operating system. Topics covered include computer programs (including library and system calls), formal standards and conventions, and even abstract concepts. A user may invoke a man page by issuing the man command. By default, man typically uses a terminal pager program such as more or less to display its output. == Usage == To read a manual page for a Unix command, type: Pages are traditionally referred to using the notation "name(section)": for example, ftp(1). The same page name...
 
@fredoverflow That's hilarious
 
I like Walter's presentations.
Although his slides are very minimal.
 
user1804599
Hello.
 
user1804599
12:34 PM
@fredoverflow Which Walter?
 
Hi
@rightfold White
 
user1804599
Walter Hartwell White (also known by his clandestine alias Heisenberg) is the main protagonist in AMC's American television drama series Breaking Bad. The character, who possesses qualities of an anti-hero, antagonist, and tragic hero, was created by series creator Vince Gilligan and is portrayed by Bryan Cranston. A graduate of the California Institute of Technology, Walt was once a promising chemist who was one of the founders of the multi-billion dollar company Gray Matter Technologies. He abruptly left the company, selling his shares for $5,000, and subsequently moved to Albuquerque, New Mexico...
 
I found a picture of Arnold flexing his muscles:
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow Tracing GC or GTFO.
 
What memory allocation strategy is GTFO? Garbage tracing functional objects?
 
12:48 PM
reclaiming the memory and tell the garbage to GTFO?
 
user1804599
I like how pointers work in Go:
 
user1804599
func f() *int {
    x := 42
    return &x
}

func g() {
    fmt.Println(*f()) // prints 42
}
 
Where does x come from?
 
user1804599
It's a local variable defined in f.
 
user1804599
x := 0 is short for var x = 0.
 
12:49 PM
interesting
 
user1804599
It does escape analysis.
 
user1804599
If you return a pointer to a local it'll use the heap instead of the call stack.
 
you mean that x := 0 is for var x integer = 0?
 
Ven
What's even the point of using pointers? to avoid having a reference-type kind of thing?
 
user1804599
If you don't want a copy, you need a pointer.
 
12:52 PM
@Ven you hold reference type kind of things in pointers
 
user1804599
You don't want a copy when something is huge or when you want somebody to mutate the pointee.
 
Ven
@khajvah that's what I mean, yes
 
user1804599
Struct types in Go aren't reference types.
 
11
Q: What is the point of pointers?

BabikerWhat is the point of pointers in C++ when I can just declare variables? When is it appropriate to use them?

 
user1804599
@fredoverflow now I want to write code in D again.
 
1:11 PM
it is father's day
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow In Go you can use concurrency to implement ranges! play.golang.org/p/_aN7-XMA4N :D
 
did you scrubs get anything for your dads
 
yuppp
 
Xeo
 
@Xeo d'awwwww :3
 
1:17 PM
@Prismatic Not yet, it's 23.06 here
 
man I forgot how to declare an array earlier today
seriously when's the last time you've used c style arrays in c++
 
Xeo
A few days ago
 
I kept writing int[] x; instead of int x[];
 
Xeo
T const blah[] = { ... }; is too strong
 
@Xeo I hope my next game wont get trolled so hard. i want the badge :(
fuck trolls
 
1:28 PM
do you guys ever get jelly of JS devs
 
Xeo
no
 
today I was looking over some webgl code and trying to figure out what it was doing
I couldn't understand how the thing wasn't keeping track of any of its variables or doing clean up or whatever
and then I was like 'oh yeahhh'
 
Ven
@fredoverflow WAT?
 
user1804599
@Prismatic No. Fuck JS.
 
user1804599
1:40 PM
JS may very well be the most terribly designed language ever.
 
One of the things I'm pretty curious about is how you would manage a large JS project without having really hard to deal with bugs and stuff
 
user1804599
You can't.
 
I'm so reliant on the compiler telling me I'm an idiot that I can't imagine what would happen with JS
 
You can mitigate this by having a lot of tests that essentially do the job a compiler + type system would do
 
People have made some really cool stuff in JS though. I linked it before, but because its so impressive: github.com/AnalyticalGraphicsInc/cesium
 
1:42 PM
but its both a lot of work and error prone
 
user1804599
Masochism detected.
 
It took 15 years to evolve JavaScript from "falling snowflakes" to actually doing anything useful
 
I could think of a new movie 'the lo of the ring' ... it's not 'the ring', it is not 'lord of the ring'. But instead it is a romantic movie about a long haired girl named Samara (貞子), who worked as a exotic dancer and liked to crawl out of televisions in her flimsy dress mistakenly crawled out of a television in a bachelor pad belonged to an orc. The orc immediately fell in love with her ...
 
I wonder what the future will be if WebAssembly becomes the norm. Like, will a systems language be the mainstream choice to compile to WebAssembly? Or something like JS instead (maybe Dart?)
 
user1804599
The web will die.
 
1:44 PM
What do you think will replace it?
 
Jun 17 at 16:57, by milleniumbug
@Ven In about 10 years, we'll rewrite web browsers and operating systems to JavaScript. And we'll have another language on top of that.
 
user1804599
Something more horrible will be invented and all sorts of morons will want to use it and then the web won't be a thing anymore.
 
Inner platform effect
Web browsers have too much functionality
They're monoliths of bad ideas
 
@milleniumbug someone should link that one presentation where this is actually suggested
 
I don't get why everything needs to be web based
Is it installation you want to avoid? Then fix it
Make installation painless
 
1:50 PM
Hai guys, I'm having an issue - ideone.com/uDmyMR compiles, but on the while loop it allows any file. If I remove reader.clear(); and reader.close();, it loops forever no matter if the file exists or not.
 
uniform access pattern, platform independence, strong service control (since clients can just be dummies), etc
 
user1804599
TIL x86-64 has a PUNPCKLQDQ instruction.
 
@rightfold What does it do?
 
@Prismatic IOW virtual machine and thin clients
 
user1804599
> Unpack low data
 
user1804599
1:53 PM
My guess: UNPCK means "unpack".
 
@rightfold These mnemonics are getting out of hand
One could have a IDE that autocompletes it
 
user1804599
@milleniumbug There's also AESKEYGENASSIST.
 
You type longer form and it shortens it to mnemonic form
 
@VOTProductions what are you trying to do
 
1:55 PM
If file does not exist, loop until user enters a file that does exist
 
e.g. you type "shift a left", and using fuzzy matching it autoexpands to "shift arithmetic left", which after you press Tab, it inserts "SAL" mnemonic
 
user1804599
Or just write in a higher-level language.
 
Or having help after highlighting
@rightfold Sure, but I read assembly after compiling sometimes
 
user1804599
Mill has decent mnemonics.
 
1:58 PM
I like it
 
user1804599
Me too!
 
user1804599
I have to rename PushParameter to PushArgument though.
 
Yeah, that
arguments are simply better
 

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