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Mar 25 at 21:35, by sehe
@AndyProwl sadly bucket lists are rarely optimal and sadly the standard specifies them
 
user1804599
They must be deprecated in C++17.
 
user1804599
also lol linked lists
 
@райтфолд I don't see where you gather that from (did you mean "should"?)
@райтфолд Linked lists have the benefits of node-based containers for sequential containers.
Notably, iterator stability. And perhaps the splice thing.
That's the end, but not nearly as bad as the unordered_* interface specification overreach
 
user1804599
How often do you care about iterator invalidation when working with hash tables.
 
10:03 PM
I just realized that the access to buckets completely kills the reasoning behind insisting that it is unordered_map not hash_map...
 
user1804599
@sehe yes.
 
@райтфолд Ah. You mean that the standard specifies the buck lists to be std::list (I didn't care enough to remember this if it is)
 
@gha.st wait, was there a reasoning (beyond "hash_map" is ubiquitously present as library extensions)
 
user1804599
LLVM has a dense hash table implementation but it probably has a shitty interface and a shitload of dependencies.
 
10:05 PM
@gha.st Open addressing collision handling schemes are still hash-tables
 
user1804599
@sehe I don't think so, though it may imply it as part of the complexity requirements of the functions.
 
@райтфолд shit{ty interface,load of dependencies}
 
To the best of my knowledge this was chosen, because C++ only specifies the interface and its performance bounds (e.g. O(1) lookup), but not the actual algorithms to implement it
 
@райтфолд So, what made you say "also lol linked lists"?
 
It is not hash_map is because the name was taken in practice.
 
user1804599
10:06 PM
It also has one specialised for string keys.
 
@sehe Of course, but the same also holds when you replace "hash" with "unordered" in your statement
 
@gha.st Also, there is still no order even with access to buckets.
 
user1804599
@sehe I think the iterator invalidation requirements pretty much imply it.
 
Add an element and everything changes.
 
@gha.st Did you forget your own claim? ("kills the reasoning")
 
10:07 PM
My professor liked my SquareMatrix library!! :D
he gave me extra credit.
 
user1804599
Could be std::deque perhaps.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes, but you want to call it the most exact term that still fits - otherwise just call everything "thing"
 
@райтфолд That's probably nice. Because std::whatever-associative-container doesn't have heterogeneous lookups (before c++17) and you don't want to construct temporary std::strings for each lookup
 
No idea what you are trying to say now
 
user1804599
No, std::deque invalidates everything on erase not begin/end.
 
user1804599
10:08 PM
So it must be a linked list.
 
user1804599
@sehe Yeah, string keys occur a lot.
 
@sehe No, but is there any alternative to chaining hash maps with a function like bucket?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Maybe I am just talking garbage (again ^^)
 
@gha.st No clue what that is in response to
 
user1804599
That's why there's a special hash table implementation for them which stores the keys more efficiently (inline instead of separately) and caches hashes.
 
user1804599
brb diarrhoea
 
10:09 PM
@sehe "Did you forget your own claim?"
 
4 mins ago, by sehe
@gha.st Open addressing collision handling schemes are still hash-tables
 
oooh pretty
 
Too beautiful to be deconstructed
 
@sehe Doesn't fit the performance requirements.
 
yo lounge, how does this constructor make you feel
 
10:12 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I know. (Although perhaps I should correct that with "Complexity", not performance)
 
auto rect0 = make_object<Rectangle>(
parent,
{"x",0.0}, {"y",0.0},
{"width",100.0},
{"height",100.0},
{"color",{64,128,255,255}}
);
pretty swanky right
 
It's left. And I really don't know why
Fixed font button is right.
 
@Pris UI in cplusplus rip
 
I'm thinking of using something like boost any and storing that data in a hash map and then looking it up like rect0["x"]... but I don't think that works. I don't think there's a magic way to do auto rect0["lookup_name"] and have auto be the right type
 
It's called using a different language
 
10:15 PM
how about never
ive played around with using V8 and duktape for scripting
 
never again unless at gunpoint
@sehe neat
 
lol a make factory function for a Rectangle?
 
@Pris (hint: of course not; it's nice but should be used to expose a type erased interface for a library API, not your use-case)
@Puppy I agree. It calls for a DI framework
 
@Puppy all widgets are created with make_object, one of my wonderful design decisions at work
 
10:21 PM
terra novas are pretty cute dogwallpapers.net/wallpapers/…
 
a rectangle is not a widget, it's a rectangle.
 
and big holy shit i.imgur.com/xisM71f.jpg
 
Shiiit ran out of things that make throat not hurt; fuckin cold
NEED THROAT DRUGS
 
I'm talking on both libstdc++s and libc++s mailing lists about merging pdqsort as std::sort, and reception is positive on both :D
@sehe @JerryCoffin @LightningRacisinObrit @Mysticial ^
 
@CatPlusPlus Such things exist?
 
10:22 PM
@AndyProwl Yes?
 
@AndyProwl syrups
honey
hot tea with honey
 
syrups don't make your throat not hurt
 
Magic tablets full of drugs
 
they help with cough or something
I never found anything that could actually relieve me from throat pain
 
Benzydamine (also known as Tantum Verde and branded in some countries as Difflam), available as the hydrochloride, is a locally-acting nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug with local anaesthetic and analgesic properties for pain relief and anti-inflammatory treatment of inflammatory conditions of the mouth and throat. == Medical use == Odontostomatology: gingivitis, stomatitis, glossitis, aphthous ulcers, dental surgery and oral ulceration due to radiation therapy. Otorhinolaryngology: pharyngitis, tonsillitis, post-tonsillectomy, radiation or intubation mucositis. It may be used alone or as an...
 
10:23 PM
@orlp didn't they ask for academic paper/credentials?
 
@CatPlusPlus look up benzocaine
 
Tantum Verde is the worst shit
it makes it worse!
 
it's over the counter here
 
Maybe you're allergic or something
 
benzococaine
 
10:24 PM
I don't know, I don't think so. I've done tests for allergies
 
I never had any problems with benzydamine
 
the only thing that helps me with a sore throat is time
a lot of time
 
Benzocaine works pretty well for an oral anesthetic.
 
@sehe One particular contributor on libstdc++s list stated he was nervous about merging something new rather than something that stood the test of time, but later that same person also stated he was happy someone else gave their opinion, and that opinion was positive.
 
Yeah. I'd be nervous
 
10:26 PM
Link the threads maybe
 
But the fact of the matter is that people have been using "something(s) that stood the test of time" all the time, with varying results
 
@Rapptz Oh, found which drug has that and I've used that too
Dunno which one works better
 
how are dogs able to tell human kids apart from adults
do they mistake midgets for kids
 
@CatPlusPlus @sehe #1 #2, #3
 
I wish we were able to somehow clearly see how animals think from their perspective
 
> Randomvägen 5
@JohanLarsson Read too much XKCD
 
@JohanLarsson is what too dark
 
The humor
@orlp heads-up I'm not gonna read that, at least not today :S
 
@Pris I meant the opposite :)
 
@AlexM. any animal senses "maturity" (we do too!) as this is directly useful for them to assess threat
 
10:32 PM
@sehe Don't have an address yet. Address is spelled adress in Swedish btw, errorprone.
 
@sehe it's not terribly interesting, mostly a back and forth about particular implementation details/requirements - nothing really specific to pdqsort
 
@orlp I think I'd have worked a little harder at emphasizing the fact that this is ultimately a quicksort, so it has most of the same qualities as a quicksort in all but a few fairly specific cases. Then I'd point to the bad behavior of a normal quicksort in the bad cases, and what pdqsort does to prevent the same. I suspect that would help allay some misgivings.
 
@JerryCoffin did you read all the messages, or just the ones I linked there?
 
reading mailing lists is not very intuitive
 
s/reading// s/is/are/
don't really know why they still communicate through a platform from the 70's
but oh well
 
10:37 PM
@orlp I meant in the original post. I'm not sure I read the whole thread, but did see that you eventually got into that area.
 
@JerryCoffin In particular, I think I did exactly what you said here: gcc.gnu.org/ml/libstdc++/2015-04/msg00021.html
 
@orlp Because they are from the 70's
 
@CatPlusPlus Next up in "That 70's show!": Stallman prohibits AST exportation
 
@JohanLarsson hehe It's adres in Dutch
 
@orlp Yup, I saw that.
 
10:40 PM
@orlp maybe because they have a need to communicate
> allay some misgivings
W00t for new words
 
user1804599
yum
 
user1804599
elecrtolytes
 
  File "bot.py", line 288, in prepare
    #         for ban in bans:
IndexError: tuple index out of range
 
@orlp My oldest brother likes to talk about how several governments spent several million dollars on a program to invent a highly resilient protocol to collect data from sensors in Antarctica. Several million dollars later, somebody suggested trying NNTP--which immediately worked better than anything they'd invented.
 
how do commented lines give errors :v what is happening
 
10:43 PM
@Rapptz Bad pyc
 
@orlp well done
 
Probably
 
what is NNTP?
 
Usenet protocol
 
deleting the .pyc did nothing
 
10:44 PM
@sehe Thanks
 
@Puppy ...but officially "Network News Transport Protocol".
 
Note that the post I've made here was just to open discussion and poll interest
 
Hm.
 
to see if the reaction would be 'never' 'fuck off' 'cool, but won't merge' or 'we're interested'
 
user1804599
@Rapptz SSCCE
 
10:45 PM
The reaction was "never fuck off" ?
 
@CatPlusPlus I have been known to have to debug LLVM IR sometimes to figure out what's wrong in the Wide compiler.
 
@orlp I think it's pretty cool, but can't remember the last time I had a sort take long enough to make optimizing it a particularly high priority.
 
@Puppy That's a given when you're writing a compiler
But not when you're using one
 
true enough.
 
@JerryCoffin if everyone used the proper data structures all the time, sorting wouldn't be remotely as important
 
10:47 PM
you make it sound like it currently is remotely important.
I must say that I have almost never even called a sort function.
 
The important part isn't how often you call a sort function in your code
the question is whether it happens in a spot where it gets called often
 
user1804599
Zinc is like magenesium.
 
@orlp Nope.
 
...
Peeps. Sort is important. We've been automating it since punch cards (and before). And before that it was someone's full time job. We're always optimizing sort.
 
@райтфолд In some ways (both transition metals) but in other ways quite different. One obvious difference: one of the main reasons for many uses of magnesium is that its quite strong and light. Zinc, OTOH, is heavy and weak.
 
10:57 PM
If we assume that 1% of global computing energy is spent on sorting, and I managed to shave off 0.5% in average usage, that's still more energy saved than I can possibly use in my life
 
user1804599
Alloys are nice.
 
lol
 
@райтфолд That they are--especially steel.
 
someone on the mailing list referred me to 'recent' previous discussion
2012..
 
in the pace of sort algo evolution, 2/3 years is exceptionally short
 
11:08 PM
it wasn't particularly related to sorting though - it was about code deduplication for comparison objects
 
@JerryCoffin and if they're really cool, they can be quite strong
 
but I guess 2/3 years is still short on a libstdc++ timescale
 
Awkward. This orchestral track is making me think a phone is ringing all the time.
Raising the volume worked, apparently
 
not my kind of music :(
it sounds like 3 unrelated songs are playing at the same time
 
? it's so highly congruent (as in classicist) that I find it only useful for background listening for now
But it's new for me too. Never heard much Hindemith
 
11:15 PM
Does it ever make sense to have move/copy constructors but not move/copy assignment?
 
Yes no maybe
 
@orlp hehe. The phone is back at ~6:12 onwards...
It's undoubtedly a compression artefact that manifests really audibly with the percussion there (I think it's a suspended cymbal, but english jargon may be wrong for me)
 
Xeo
Hmmm, so Tony's maybe not coming to the Unconference it seems. Guess I need to find a new place to crash.
 
let me put it like this
I already don't have a thing for orchestral music
 
I have a feeling you mean "classical" really
 
11:18 PM
No, I love many classical piano pieces
Or flute
 
@Xeo Not the mountains
 
Just piano though. I (obviously) love piano, but too much of "just piano" gets on my nerves
 
or orchan
I just generally don't like violins, who dominate orchestral music
 
@orlp organ
 
Violins are great
 
Xeo
11:19 PM
@CatPlusPlus There are mountains in London or en route there?
 
@orlp not in this piece :)
 
@sehe woops
 
@CatPlusPlus agree
 
@Xeo Fuck if I know
 
@Xeo not in london. On the way, from Germany, no
 
11:19 PM
but I don't think it's fair to say that I don't like classical music in general because of my dislike of orchestral music
 
I dunno. I don't think so.
I don't think it's fair to say "I {like/dislike} classical music" in any respect.
The domain is waaaay too broad.
 
2 mins ago, by sehe
I have a feeling you mean "classical" really
 
This being one of the particular elements I like about classical music
@orlp I know what I said. Note the irony quotes
 
in response to
3 mins ago, by orlp
I already don't have a thing for orchestral music
@sehe Then your subtlety went past me
 
Also, I'm allowed to develop a more precise standpoint. What's worse, I'm even allowed to take the points you make into consideration!
 
11:21 PM
from what I understood you were implying I don't have a thing for classical music
 
It's one of those things people often claim. So, I wanted to to hold it up to you to see whether you would embrace it :)
 
I claim no such thing
I claim the contrary :)
 
That much was clear. No problem.
 
I even play quite a bit of classical music, if they're within my capabilities (mostly slow melancholic pieces)
 
I will be the last person to black&white any music issue :)
 
I wouldn't be the first person to be racist
@orlp I think now I remember you posting your take of this on a digital instrument?
It was well done - very consistent in tempo
 
in a very shitty recording, I think, yes
and only a portion
I can play more of it now, just not the entire thing yet
 
I since played it thinking I wouldn't do it so consistently, but also, partly because I wouldn't be able to
 
I should invest in a proper line in for my laptop
so I can record my compositions
 
> A year later, remarkably, Windows XP isn’t quite dead yet. Its exact share can be debated. Net Market Share data suggests its share as of March 2015 is at around 17%
Sweet
 
11:25 PM
very dissatisfied with MIDI synths (and MIDI in general) on linux
 
I'm suddenly realizing that the lounge seems filled with more evidence to corroborate that musically interested people are overrepresented in geek/STEM fields
 
who the hell are you talking to
hi btw
 
seeing that most of the conversation in the last 10 minutes was between sehe and me, probably me
 
Hi. Lightning. Nice to see you. In all your self-deafened glory. Again
 
This whole lounge is racist - too many white animals ... :p
 
11:27 PM
@orlp oh nm
@chmod711telkitty wot
 
@sehe I conjecture there's a strong relation between intelligence and musical interest in general
@sehe and in turn a correlation between intelligence and STEM
 
Am I still plonked?
 
Mmm. I see many people into music. But the analytical side of music seems to attract the techies
@Cinch Yes
 
White cat, white bear, white fox etc
 
11:29 PM
@LightningRacisinObrit the world?
 
@orlp that explains my fifteen musical qualifications
 
@sehe Well, yeah, when I said 'musical interest' I meant from the musician's perspective
 
@orlp and my job in STEM
@Cinch ok
@orlp cool :)
 
@sehe and then there's the really cool songs I can only dream about ever coming close to playing
 
user1804599
Do you prefer “shouldn’t’ve” or “should’ven’t” when they're the same?
 
11:30 PM
@райтфолд the former
 
sh'dn't'v
 
> qualifications
whatever that may be
 
go full hebrew
 
I guess they are equivalent but I've never seen the latter used
now someone quote that at the plonking git
 
who plonked you, rightfoald?
 
11:31 PM
yes
 
            for(int size = max_size; size != 0; size/10) {
                ++max_digits;
            }
 
What
 
@Cinch infinite loop bro
 
What's wrong with that?
 
user1804599
11:32 PM
OMG.
 
nice infinite loop
 
@Cinch you never mutate the counter
 
user1804599
I don't need std::reverse. I always forget about reverse iterators!
 
did you mean size /= 10?
 
@Cinch /=
 
11:32 PM
ohhhhhhhhhh
 
too slow old man Rekktz
 
tournament organising
 
excuses excuses...
 
@Rapptz tournament of what
 
SSB Melee
 
11:33 PM
you're a smasher?
 
yes
 
TIL
 
are you good?
 
Rapptz SMASH
 
11:34 PM
top tier game
@orlp I'm okay.
I can beat most casual players.
 
user1804599
Nice.
 
Maybe all.
 
user1804599
Now I both have my nice std::vector::reserve, std::vector::push_back and constant-time reversing.
 
@Rapptz If they are casual enough
 
yep
 
11:35 PM
std::vector<orlp>::rekktz_iterator // editing is fun
 
did you mean devector<orlp>? // indeed it is
 
are we back to the entire 'sorry' episode?
 
I waited two days to get home and check out the video of Kylie Jenner shoving her hand down her sister Kendall's jeans. Disappointing.
@orlp sorry
 
2015 called, they want your me-me back
 
11:38 PM
I love meymeys
 
Also, why is your name "Fighting Racists On Borat" now?
 
I changed it for the morning of April Fools' Day, not realising that Snack Overgrow sealed the loophole allowing us to change our nicks as many times as we have Stack Exchange accounts. Long story short, (a) I can't change it back until May 1st, and (b) the joke's on me.
So I've been bitching about Spotify upgrades for a while, and I maintain that the desktop client is generally getting less reliable and performant with each new version. But. I just spotted that within the last couple of releases (read: weeks) they added a decent track/album-repeat control. So that's nice.
 
well I've been on the fence about spotify too
because in recent version they added incredibly obnoxious loud ads that play when you start up spotify (read: your PC)
and in general they seem to have changed the volume balance algo, I can't listen to soft classical music without getting absolutely blasted by the ads
 
Fuck I can't do anything
I suck
switch is shitty
 
but I'm on the fence to actually upgrade, because I don't want to reward such practices with money
 
meh
@orlp I haven't used free Spotify in years
@orlp Except the entire point is that you remove such practices with money
I suppose there's a principle there but ultimately it's kinda stupid and you're just cutting off your nose to spite your face
End of the day, don't pay don't moan?
Dunno
You can't really blame them for wanting more people to contribute
Certainly as one of the relatively few paying customers, I don't blame them for it at all
If I thought they could still attract users, I'd say they shouldn't have a free service at all
Alas the stench of piracy still pervades and people don't like to pay even an incredibly cheap price for music
I mean seriously it's fucking USD9.99/mo!
If Tidal is as good as it's supposed to be, I'll switch because the UI issues do piss me off. But I won't go free or pirate again.
I want to contribute like a good Targaryen girl.
inb4 "who the fuck are you talking to" :P
 
"Targaryen girl" topkek
 
@Pris me too
 
When you joined this site, all of thirteen minutes ago, you were presented with a wealth of documentation regarding how to use this website. It would behoove you to actually read it rather than thinking you could just skip that effort and get your free help faster. — Lightning Racis in Obrit 17 secs ago
votes innit
 
It's slightly less annoying to use than tubyube and that's the only reason I'm paying
 
11:51 PM
same I guess
plus I'm a hoarder
logic that only partially works with Spotify but there is at least the "Make Available Offline" option and the fact that basically every song I have on Spotify is under a single playlist :P
though I am becoming increasingly concerned about losing this "back catalogue" and intend to find a way to export my playlist and convert it into hard MP3s or summat. soon
 
Also did they drop Unlimited tier?
 
the way YouTube doesn't tell you what your since-deleted Favourites are really ruins that for me
 
I'm still paying like 2€
 
there are songs I know I loved but I will never again know what they are
dno
 
I don't know why people idolize Danaerys anyway. She's an uptight merciless aristocrat who literally got where she is by birth in a privileged and sex with powerful men. Then she abuses those powers in an attempt to greedily grab more power she is delusional enough to believe that are rightly hers.
 
11:52 PM
£9.99/mo for Premium
feels pretty unlimited
@orlp She's a terrible ruler and a cocky little gobshite. But she's got gravitas, and the right family name, and good intentions.
And, yes, she's fit as fuck.
If she learns to sort herself out, and she will, then she could be a top queen.
 
'good intentions'?
topkek
 
Everyone's a dick in that universe
 
freeing all the slaves. making people free and happy
 
she intends to terrorize the entire world by use of her dragons in order to remain in control
 
11:54 PM
I'm not saying she went about it the right way. she totes fucked up
pfft
She intends to terrorize the entire world by use of her dragons in order to love you
 
She'll probably die anyway
 
probably?
 
She is pragmatic: she knows there must be a ruler. It might as well be a nice kind ruler who will keep everyone fed and free and chirpy. She believes she can effect that result by being that ruler.
Seems fair to me.
 
it's RR martin we're talking about here
 
Killed by dragons not giving a fuck about her opinion about how to do things
 
11:55 PM
@LightningRacisinObrit everyone on her side* sometimes*
 
A bit different to going "fuk u guys innit i wanna be queen i dont care if u starve lol"
 
Spotify free is pretty much garbage
 
@orlp she has not been terribly ruthless to anyone who wasn't objectively a twat (e.g. mass slaver)
although she could have been nicer to Jorah
but that was a personal disagreement
hormones innit
 
@LightningRacisinObrit you might want to rewatch that shit
 
@orlp don't be a dick
erlp
oh fuck me it's THIS SUNDAY
wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
 
11:59 PM
Wooooooo
 
callin' it
episode one
opening credits
BAM she dead
 
A koala will maul her!
 

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