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LOLOLOLOL
you guys know I've been messing around with sorting algorithms lately a bit?
 
FUCK YOU WINDOWS
 
well, a while ago I found a bug in libstdc++ that, after fixing, makes sorting already-sorted inputs 30% faster, and generally a few% faster
NOW I'VE FOUND THAT libc++ HAS A QUADRACTIC WORST TIME std::sort LOL
 
I can't both have the program running with stderr redirected to a file and copy that file so I can visualise it with dot.
Maybe I can go around it if I write my own program to call CreateProcess directly, but why the fuck does any damn little thing on Windows open the fucking files exclusively :<
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Because not doing so requires extra flags.
 
4:07 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Because everyone developing for Windows is terrible
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Who opens your files? std::ofstream?
 
The fuck should I know.
I'm not writing code.
I'm just using standard shell redirection.
So here I was, all happy and shit, download this wtee thing that is supposed to behave like Linux's tee and guess what.
 
@Jefffrey You've never heard of AJAX? Such a mechanism would be utterly trivial.
 
It still opens all fucking files exclusively.
 
lol
 
4:09 PM
I need to write my non-exclusive-open cat, it seems.
 
yes, I've heard of AJAX
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit HiJAX.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes exactly
 
Woke up at 18 again
 
@nightcracker Are you sure?
 
4:11 PM
This is going to be a terrible week
 
@CatPlusPlus 18am?
 
@CatPlusPlus Went to bet at ...?
 
Don't bet.
 
Yes, you are terrible at sleeping.
 
4:12 PM
17pm?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes 100%
@R.MartinhoFernandes currently working on cleaning up the SSCCE that shows quadratic behaviour
 
@nightcracker Dunno, sounds too dumb to be true.
There are several well-known ways to write std::sort properly.
 
user3010322
Borgleader generated Nonius reports that showed introsort (nightcracker's version) was faster.
 
user3010322
But, it might be missing subtle implementation details?
 
@ThePhD that's a difference issue
@ThePhD that's my bugfix for gcc, and is "only" 30% for sorted arrays
 
4:16 PM
@ThePhD Faster is irrelevant.
 
@nightcracker right. Lemme see it when it's done :)
Complexity > Runtime
 
Show me comparison counts or get your terminology correct.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes comparison counts ARE lower in my bugfix, but don't tell the entire story
 
And ideally functions, not numbers.
 
if comparison counts mattered everyone would be using timsort
 
user3010322
4:17 PM
timsort... sounds familiar.
 
it's python's sorting algorithm
it's a mergesort variant, very efficient in terms of comparisons
 
@nightcracker Comparison counts are all that matters when you go on saying "quadratic worst case".
 
but does a lot of swaps/copies/stuff
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh, yes of course, I was talking about the 30% speedup, that's not solely due to comparison counts
 
@nightcracker Python does so that's everyone enough for me
Also it's still Tuesday somehow
This sleeping schedule is breaking my brain
 
@CatPlusPlus yesterday it was 17. Also wut do you work from home or what
 
4:26 PM
Yes
 
well you're more of an animal than me right now :P
I just write haskell to 4am but wake at 9
 
@CatPlusPlus You get used to it after a while. You still don't like it, but you get used to it.
Not that it ever happened to me.
        using (var file = File.Open(args[0], FileMode.Create, FileAccess.Write, FileShare.Read))
            Console.OpenStandardInput().CopyTo(file);
There, I wrote a standard stream redirector that doesn't open shit exclusively.
And now I fixed the first bug.
 
ok
got an SSCCE that shows libc++ has quadratic time std::sort
 
    using (var file = File.Open(args[0], FileMode.Create, FileAccess.Write, FileShare.Read))
        Console.OpenStandardInput().CopyTo(file, 1);
And now I fixed the second.
I should not use chat as version control.
 
does anyone here have libc++ installed?
 
4:36 PM
Coliru?
 
does coliru have libc++?
oh it does
it doesn't have -lc++abi, but that doesn't matter now
woops
edited, forgot one std::
 
@nightcracker wolframalpha.com/input/?i=fit+{{100%2C+2479}%2C+{200%2C+10229}%2C+{40‌​0%2C+40729}%2C+{800%2C+161729}%2C+{1600%2C+448698}}+to+polynomial+of+degree+2
 
sick url bro
might wanna try that again :P
 
user3010322
Das URL
 
Chat parsing is terrible.
@nightcracker Better
 
user3010322
4:44 PM
That's a pretty close R2.
 
you should compare to n log n
ok, added two more datapoints: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/d2083dd558f88600
the reason I stumbled on this is because I was looking at libc++'s sorting algorithm and noticed they didn't have anything resembling introsort/other worst case protection
 
@nightcracker Oh, right. Duh.
 
lololol
eehm, you sure you did it right?
 
4:52 PM
it looks like log n
 
What does n log n looks like?
The computed model is 979011. log(0.00364916 x), btw.
Oh, you're right.
Dammit.
 
well
wolfram alpha doesn't understand "fit to polylogarithmic"
 
I certainly don't.
 
err
that's wrong
Linearithmic
 
Well, fuck it.
 
4:55 PM
still doesn't understand it
either way, R = 0.9999 seems rather convincing :P
especially if you compare it to the same file compiled with libstdc++
 
it's libstdc++, not stdlibc++
 
fixt
libc++ needs 5,264,298 compares to sort a 6400 element array, libstdc++ only 244,850
just sayin'
 
Btw, make sure your comparator is SWO.
 
SWO?
 
strict weak ordering
 
5:00 PM
oh
 
This sounds like MSVC-level negligence.
I'm thinking of all possible reasons it is not.
 
well
you can look at my comparator
it's just <
so yes, it's SWO
 
Oh, I got confused by the function above. Nevermind.
 
I've sourcedived into the actual implementation, they just don't implement introsort
they implement quicksort with some fancy stuff, but no worst case protection that introsort does
reporting bug
should I put "release blocker" under severity?
 
I don't think that decision is up to you :v
 
5:04 PM
well, I have to select one
 
Give it normal sev and let them decide
 
quicksort worst cases are rare (if you don't construct them like I did) but can hang up your machine for quite some time if the array is large (yay N^2)
 
@nightcracker Be conversative.
 
Unless they have separate priority then maybe you should set it
Anyway someone will fix it
The field not the bug, the bug will probably linger on for next 2 years
 
by the way, the technique I've used to construct the worst case is from fucking 1999
 
5:08 PM
Quicksort's worst case is well-known.
 
but this algorithm to construct worst cases using just a comparison function is not?
 
I've heard of it when I was in university.
 
lol
THE ETHER
 
@nightcracker No.
 
hmm
should I provide a patch as well?
 
5:33 PM
German C++ pun:
using frankfurt = int;
frankfurt main(){}
 
Wait.
There's no factorial function in Haskell?
 
Frankfurt am Main ist die größte Stadt des Landes Hessen und die fünftgrößte Kommune der Bundesrepublik Deutschland mit etwa 690.000 Einwohnern. Die Stadt ist Zentrum des Ballungsraums Frankfurt/Rhein-Main mit knapp 2,2 Millionen Einwohnern. In der erweiterten Stadtregion Frankfurt gemäß den harmonisierten Maßstäben von Eurostat leben etwa 2,5 Millionen (2012), in der gesamten Metropolregion Rhein-Main etwa 5,5 Millionen Einwohner. Seit dem Mittelalter gehört Frankfurt zu den bedeutenden urbanen Zentren Deutschlands. 794 erstmals urkundlich erwähnt, war es seit dem Hochmittelalter Freie Reichsstadt…
 
We just took a troubled load balancer out of rotation, we're investigating what caused it to go crazy.
 
@Jefffrey factorial n = product [1..n] or something.
 
I was expecting a more efficient version for it.
 
5:35 PM
@Feeds ".. and then we'll investigate how commas are supposed to be used".
 
user3010322
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That should be a ; right?
 
user3010322
Also being ill sucks.
 
user3010322
This is the most I've been so frequently ill and with such severity in my life.
 
i'm slightly immobile today
 
user3010322
5:36 PM
Fuck summer. Fuck all the bugs and shit it brings.
 
user3010322
Let winter descend and kill everything. :l
 
if I exert myself too much my tooth socket will start bleeding again and I'll be back to square one
 
@ThePhD All because of a comma.
 
plus i can't really eat properly yet so I have reduced energy
on the upside, got a LOAD done in the house earlier
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes Grammar can kill. :(
 
5:38 PM
@Jefffrey Just as inefficient, but more obscure: factorial = product . enumFromTo 1
 
@ThePhD You could get sick like I did.
 
@StackStatus "... and then we'll investigate how commas are supposed to be used"
@nightcracker Is there a link?
 
5:54 PM
@FredOverflow like I said; someone leaked those nudes...
That was to feeds. But I'm on mobile so won't correct
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes still working on patch
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes -.-
 
user3010322
<_>
 
6:17 PM
I guess let ls = (read n) :: Int doesn't really make ls an `Int.
 
> Couldn't match type `[Char]' with `Int'
Expected type: Int
Actual type: String
In the second argument of `($)', namely `n'
fuck
I'm an idiot
 
Thought so.
 
:D
 
6:21 PM
@nightcracker To be honest, I think not. A patch here pretty much means writing heapsort or something.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm already done with the patch, testing
@R.MartinhoFernandes heapsort is already in the standard library - no need to write it
 
I know I can plant guam because my farming level is high enough, I know I'm planting guam because I'm planting guam seeds, but I don't know the result is guam because I don't have a high enough level in herblore to identify the plant. runescape's logic.
 
@AlexM. My dorfs are smarter than you.
 
lol
 
And they'll run to take those socks off that dead body surrounded by zombies unless I explicitly forbid them.
OMG SOCKS
 
6:23 PM
you mean foot hand gloves?
 
hehe
Foot hand shoes, you mean.
 
Dammit, I misspelled the letter F :-)
 
it's a gamma
WTΓ
2
 
It's a ghe!
 
6:38 PM
you misspelled М in МТГ
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it seems my patch is working
I did my best to have it follow what seem to be their standards, but I probably fucked something up - this can easily be fixed in a non-function-changing-patch
 
> How do I beat procrastination?
> In short, by not reading reddit.
lol
 
@AlexM. lol
 
@sehe @R.MartinhoFernandes bug report and patch is up: llvm.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=20837
 
user3010322
7:00 PM
@nightcracker Kinky.
 
> I had a friend who told me that he cried when he first read GEB because he then knew that there were other people who understand.
I guess I need to re-read this classic again :)
 
I have to take a C++ class this semester!
 
@FredOverflow GEB?
 
user3010322
GMAP is gonna be my PNG chunk.
 
user3010322
For GLYPHMAP.
 
7:03 PM
@AlexM. Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid
Oh, James McNellis Unicode in C++ talk: youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MW884pluTw8
 
@bartek I'm building your potato. :3
 
@corvid Will I be teaching it? ;)
 
it is an independent study, so if I ask you enough inane questions, I guess you could be considered to be teaching it
 
Is it true that teachers mock students with other teachers?
 
of course
 
7:10 PM
WHAT
 
@Jefffrey What does that mean?
 
You know, like in the teachers lounge or whatever.
 
Yes they do.
Just like we mock noobs here.
 
They? You don't?
@FredOverflow That much?
I think I'm going to puke.
 
We only mock students who are obviously lazy and don't put any time into learning the subject.
 
7:12 PM
you guys mock me then? I'm a noob
 
@Jefffrey no, teachers are not human
 
oh thanks god
 
@corvid I don't know who you are.
 
He is the Crow guy
 
I bet teachers also laugh at the crap some students write down on exams at times too
some even make them public on their websites (w/o giving names)
my assembly prof sure listed a lot of stuff students said during exams
e.g. "the registers are in the upper right part of the processor"
 
7:17 PM
I'm corvid .-.
I'm here all the time
 
@FredOverflow corvid changed his username recently
he used to be Crow
 
> [ ] In his classic article "The Free Lunch Is Over", Herb Sutter complains that programmers have to pay for their own meals at Microsoft.
15
^ I almost used this question in a written exam, but I was afraid too many pupils would check the box and make me lose my faith in teaching.
8
@Jefffrey Didn't he die in a shooting?
 
Too dumb to get the reference to that question. Sorry.
 
@FredOverflow haha, too good
 
7:21 PM
@bamboon If you like it, you should put a star on it!
 
@FredOverflow Done, Sir!
 
@FredOverflow I mean this message.
 
And for the sub-10kers...
 
7:24 PM
fuck, you beat me
 
It's like we finish each other's sentences :)
 
I'm like crow, but I'm more ambiguous. I could also be a jackdaw or a raven now
 
user3010322
Guys
 
user3010322
PDF reader
 
user3010322
for Windows
 
user3010322
7:25 PM
what'chu use?
 
foxit
 
How come I spent the last year of my imprisonment in a prison for women? Because my wife and I, we finish each other's sentences!
 
what is this "PDF" to which you refer?
 
People's Defensive Front!
 
user3010322
7:27 PM
@AlexM. I tried Foxit before, it was quite annoying to use.
 
try sumatra
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes I had Adobe Acrobat pro BUT I DON'T HAVE MY REGULAR COMPUTER BECAUSE 3 WEEK REPAIR
 
user3010322
So Sumatra it is. :3
 
I am writing this guide: gist.github.com/anonymous/c7aa30b528817f16824e. Need feedback.
 
7:28 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes needs more sample c0dez
 
@ThePhD it opens pdfs, it doesn't take years to do so... what more do you want?
 
> To be added: what's required, what's optional, actual examples
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes Something or other about they don't have the audio jack bit that's broken on my Mother Board, so they're going to replace the mother board. ... But that's going to take 10 days to ship. 20 bucks says it's 5 BUSINESS days, so that's 2 weeks right there. Then, it's Tech Support for a company, and they'll just sit on the computer for a long while as it gets fixed before finally sending it back.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I would say 'execution' rather than 'run'
 
user3010322
EVGA is the only company that's ever responded quickly to my maintenance fixes. Like, they sent me a replacement next-day.
 
7:33 PM
so hungry -.-
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I guess it's up to you, but you'd need to clearly state what these mean, and I suggest the following meanings. "execution" is on where nonius calls the user code once, "sample" is where nonius makes many executions in order to get a better time value, "run" is where nonius goes through it's end-to-end sampling to provide a benchmark figure.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You should clearly specify that users with non-reentrant code can go suck a donkey.
 
user3010322
I just realized putting my GMAP data in PNGs is a bad idea.
 
Xeo
 
user3010322
There's a lot of encoders and decoders that can disrepect my chunk.
 
Xeo
7:36 PM
New 10 Second Songs
 
> No one should ever use UCS-2 ever again
You're right, James, but you should have told that to the C++ Standards Committee.
 
user3010322
"It's the user's fault for using UCS-2", they would say.
 
Oh, yeah, I also need to mention the special ctor- and dtor-oriented functionality.
 
user3010322
@Xeo Dat Daft Punk impression.
 
@Xeo nice
 
7:46 PM
hahaha dat eminem
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit What's your imgur profile?
 
@Jefffrey Male, ugly?
 
@Jefffrey A solid 9/10. Why?
that Sinatra is a bit off
also lol "click subscribe to watch .... all of our latest videos."
> all
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Nothing, I was looking for this pic that apparently was posted by chris.
 
Ah.
Most of my uploads to the Lounge aren't linked to my Imgur, anyway.
 
7:52 PM
How do you pronounce "imgur"?
 
like "imager"
 
25
Q: Can an OS be used without RAM?

VusPIs there an OS which can be used without RAM, specifically the kind I can create a bootable pendrive from and use it in the computer? This gets awkward since booting is essentially loading OS in RAM. I have an old laptop which powers up but does not boot. The screen stays blank and I suspect th...

 
or so I do
 
imgur
 
^^ lol, XY problem much?
 
7:53 PM
like, literally
the G is like GIF, not JIF
like "imma" + "gur" - "ma"
 
"I'm gur"?
 
immagurma?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes More like "e mgur"
 
And "goor"?
 
@Mysticial It's a valid question. It would be nice to run without RAM because it costs $$$$$/KB and so.. oh wait..
 
7:56 PM
the "I" of "IM" is pronounced the same as the "I" in "Image", not like "I" in "I am"
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes
 
> Imgur (pronounced /ˈɪmədʒər/ like image-er; imager;[2] and stylized as imgur) is an online image hosting service founded by Alan Schaaf in 2009 in Athens, Ohio.
 
"e-mgoor"
well fuck
Come on guys, I know you have contributions to this. Help me out.
 
@AlexM. I kinda liked 'Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict'
 
@Jefffrey Nah, that's pointless.
it'd be like enumerating every possible GUID.
 
:lol:
come on puppy, it's fun
you have to pick the most terrible
 
7:59 PM
no.
 

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