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7:00 PM
any offers to buy one for me?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes This quality is what makes such a high-quality source of drama.
 
Ell
Red warning
 
ok
Clang, what the fuck.
 
user3010322
@DeadMG :3
 
@thecoshman Ow.
 
7:00 PM
Is teen drama back
 
@ThePhD Is that a guy or a girl? Can't tell
 
@thecoshman Holy shit dat price.
 
user3010322
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I think it's meant to be Romeo and Juliet.
 
> Some skulls may show evidence of what could appear to be mould, but in actual fact this is chocolate bloom, or 'blooming', an inherent part of the casting process which does not affect the chocolate in any way (and only adds to the skull's gnarly, 'fresh from the ground' look!)
@ThePhD Really?
 
user3010322
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Something like that.
 
7:02 PM
@ThePhD ok
 
ValueError: Cannot find a UNIQUE constraint on table pages_flatpage, columns ['slug']
| slug                   | varchar(40)  | NO   | UNI | NULL    |                |
Okay
 
Not sure I want this on my screen at work
 
user3010322
well then, let's talk so much it goes off your screen!
 
inb4 bin
 
7:04 PM
@sehe Kinda late to be at work ain't it?
 
user3010322
So, you have experience with MySQL and C++ interop?
 
@CatPlusPlus dat column name
 
MySQL is everything that's wrong except for Ruby and PHP
It's a kitchen sink of shit
Dont' use mysql is what im saying
bbbbb
 
@ThePhD Yes, once. It's staying at once.
 
@CatPlusPlus Gets shit done.
 
7:06 PM
Unless it doesn't
 
@DeadMG Who cares. I said what I meant
 
Which is more often
 
@sehe Fair enough.
 
@CatPlusPlus Our backend runs on it. No real issues.
 
@CatPlusPlus why are you using it?
 
user3010322
7:07 PM
@TonyTheLion ~Business~
 
@TonyTheLion Someone in the past decided to use it, and moving projects away from it is suicide
I'll be pushing Postgres for new ones
 
ohh
poor Cat, suffering MySQLitis
 
@EtiennedeMartel Do you write code against it
 
@EtiennedeMartel Nice choice of words.
 
@TonyTheLion Could be threats of physical violence, but I'm betting on blackmail.
 
7:08 PM
lol
 
@CatPlusPlus I could ask the backend lead, but that would mean lifting my ass from my chair.
 
@EtiennedeMartel we use db2. That is pure misery, but not quite as bad as mysql :)
 
@EtiennedeMartel IOW :effort:
 
Honestly, though, if I had to use a RDBMS, I'd use Posgres.
 
@EtiennedeMartel So you don't
 
user3010322
7:09 PM
Is... programming against a database really that hard? o.o
 
But if you forced me to use MySQL, I wouldn't really mind.
 
Although, it's not a huge problem for me, because I have a strict policy of "if we need db work done, someone else is going to have to do it"
 
@EtiennedeMartel Ahahaha
Ahahahahah
ahahaha
 
@ThePhD MySQL is particularly prone to terribleness
 
That's my recipe for a long, happy life
 
7:09 PM
But hey, pragmatism and all that.
 
@EtiennedeMartel until you encountered all of its brokenness ;)
 
Seems to be a lost art.
 
30 minutes is all I give you
 
@EtiennedeMartel lol?
 
30 minutes and you'll want to be drunk and dead
 
7:10 PM
I have to work with DB's all the time
SQL server for me
 
Give a pragmatic reason to pick that piece of crap over something that works.
 
@TonyTheLion shudders
 
Not necessarily in that order
 
its not too bad
 
user3010322
Mmm... =[
 
7:10 PM
@TonyTheLion That's cool.
 
@ThePhD Not really
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Because it's easy to find people who can work around the bullshit?
 
MySQL is hardly a database
 
Me too, but Delphi, so interface not too bad.
 
@EtiennedeMartel That's not pragmatism
 
7:10 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes "we already have it stuck in the middle of all of our code, and it would be a lot of work to replace it"?
 
That's just dumb
 
@EtiennedeMartel So buying technical debt is what kids these days call "pragmatism"?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Also, political issues.
 
oohhhh
politics
 
@EtiennedeMartel Lounge<Idealism>, Lounge<Puritan>
 
7:11 PM
We're considering moving to CouchDB for our database. That might actually be fun, if we end up doing it
 
@sehe Louge<Fuck>
@jalf What about MongoDB? It's webscale.
 
Fuck<Lounge>
 
user3010322
@sehe Lounge<Holy>
 
There's literally no reason to use MySQL except for bad decisions made in the past
 
@EtiennedeMartel Blinders are not a workaround :) They're denial
 
7:11 PM
But defending that shit for any reason is :laffo:
 
@CatPlusPlus There is no shortage of bad decisions made in the past though. It's pretty much a fact of life. :)
 
Pragmatism does not mean being as lazy as possible when making decisions.
 
"Yeah, our shit is running on broken crap we have to actively work around, no biggie"
 
MySQL is literally Hitler.
 
MySQL is literally Hitler
 
7:12 PM
There you go, discussion is finished
 
Databases have huge mass and stupendous inertia. Once you have gone through the effort of getting them moving, it's very difficult to stop them again.
 
Reminds me, I never really bothered to ask why we use MySQL at work.
 
@TonyTheLion Thanks!
 
"Because we always did"
 
@sehe :)
 
7:12 PM
That's the answer
That's always the answer
 
user3010322
@CatPlusPlus "Dependable corporate solution."
 
Worst disease there is
 
@MartinJames Which is one more reason to not pick the worst of all your choices.
 
There's no technical advantage to MyCrap
None
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's not the worst!
 
7:13 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Indeed.
 
@CatPlusPlus Taken literally, that's certainly true
 
It will happily allow you to create foreign keys in tables in two different storage engines
 
fuck JSON. I wanna have a trailing comma in arrays and objects.
 
Anyway, never had a problem with MySQL. You're all losers.
 
I found out it takes over 5 seconds to insert 24 rows in one of our db's today
Eeeek
 
7:14 PM
And then complain week later when you actually query them
 
@EtiennedeMartel For srs? :p
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Nicely added fuel to the fire there.
 
@jalf Ask @rightfold.
 
The only acid in MySQL is the one you'll want to bathe in to end your misery
12
 
@CatPlusPlus That sounds dumb of who did it too.
 
7:14 PM
@TonyTheLion thx
haha, disagree but star cos funnies
 
@Abyx You can! Just marshal some proprietary format over JSON/YAML. Much like how IBM made a format to marshal JSON over XML, IIRC
 
Problem here is that I realize that, if I try to defend MySQL, I'd end up using tactics that can be used to defend PHP, and that would make me a rather huge hypocrite.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Default engine changed, nobody noticed
Migrations ran, everything was fine
 
@CatPlusPlus I stole that
 
Then it broke down because :mysql:
 
7:15 PM
lol
 
@sehe well I can't.
 
Sounds like something in TDWTF.
 
And the error message is also really helpful
 
@TonyTheLion MsAccess-97, shared on a network drive, with 25 concurrent users?
 
Because it says the foreign row doesn't exist
 
7:15 PM
@Abyx Good. Because that would have be stupendous
 
@sehe Sql server :|
 
But it does!
 
user3010322
Who knew data storage could be so hard...
 
@EtiennedeMartel There's a reason PHP and MySQL go together so often.
 
7:16 PM
I've only done a couple of migrations. They were very unpleasant.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Then don't defend it. All the "defense" it needs is that "I didn't pick it, and I'm not the one who has to work with it daily, and we're already invested in it". It doesn't have to be rationalized away as an objectively correct decision. :)
 
@ThePhD It's not that hard when you know what you're doing
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Because they're always in the same tutorials?
 
> when you know what you're doing
 
MySQL devs don't
 
user3010322
7:16 PM
I... I think I'll just stick to shooting a bunch of files into tmpfs for my "database".
 
@jalf Yeah.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Because both are designed by people who don't know what they're doing, for people who don't know what they're doing :p
 
@ThePhD Use Postgres
It's fine
 
@TonyTheLion SQL Server is good.
 
user3010322
64 GB of RAM is all I need. >.>
 
7:17 PM
@EtiennedeMartel not if the db is terrible
 
@jalf The very essence of SQL.
 
@ThePhD And no liability
 
Anyway, I think most of us in this chat use icky shoddy tools somewhere in whatever we're working with
We have a few php scripts :/
 
and, like I said, db2
 
7:17 PM
Some of the shit I've seen
 
user3010322
I don't!
 
Wait, I know.
We use VS.
 
@ThePhD You have your C++ code!
 
user3010322
7:18 PM
@jalf :c That doesn't cooount.
 
@jalf inb4 stack_cast
 
@ThePhD that doesn't coconut?
 
user3010322
Hey, stack_cast worked great!
 
it sounds terrible
 
7:18 PM
@ThePhD Just like MySQL!
 
user3010322
forward_stack_cast and backward_stack_cast were good proofs of concept. :c
2
 
user3010322
Then I replaced it with type-safe CRTP, so there. :c
 
my despair
is overflowing
 
There is always worse. I threw my MS Access manuals on the garden incinerator a couple years ago. They didn't even burn well.
 
user3010322
At least I replaced them!
 
user3010322
7:19 PM
Don't judge me. ;~;
 
I'm one those unfortunate souls who has to maintain a family member's MS Access DB.
 
@TonyTheLion why would you do that?
 
The worst part of it is, many years I go, I suggested using MS Access
 
ouch :p
 
@TonyTheLion Oh - drunk.
 
7:20 PM
Reap what you sow.
 
I guess that answers my question
 
@jalf cause parent
 
FUCK VC++. FUCK THAT BUGGY CRAP.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yep.
 
You been disinherited yet?
 
7:21 PM
Not that I know of
 
also fuck raw string literals.
and macros
all of them
 
@Abyx why?
 
ITT Abyx enumerates C++ features he'd love to fuck.
 
room topic changed to Lounge<Coconuts>: Full of C++FILFs [java] [no-thing] [teen-math-drama]
 
user3010322
7:22 PM
VC++ would be very kinky in bed, but when you leave your dick might be missing.
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes FILF ?
 
Features I'd Love to Fuck
obvie
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum because I generate JSON and it's easier to make [1,2,] than [1,2]
 
user3010322
Ah.
 
7:22 PM
@Abyx nonononononononono
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit what?
 
@Abyx you're asking to ruin a data interchange format to account for your implementation details! abstraction leak!
 
@Abyx ostream_iterator ?
Also wait, why are you doing this yourself? Use a library..
 
I generate JSON and I have no problem dealing with the interspersions
 
what library?
 
7:24 PM
My own (wait for it...)
 
user3010322
Rolling your own is great ~
 
I just want to write a single array
 
user3010322
@sehe ♡
 
JSON doesn't have singles
 
7:25 PM
I'm single
 
why do I need a library to write [1,2,3] ?
 
though I don't have JSON
 
user3010322
@TonyTheLion No you're not; you're my union partner. <3
 
user3010322
Speaking of, why isn't the government giving us any benefits?
 
7:25 PM
lol
 
@Abyx You don't.
 
fuck programming. it's tough.
 
std::cout << "[1,2,3]";
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit omg that produces valid json how did you do that :O
 
@TonyTheLion Don't worry, you'll find someone eventually.
 
7:27 PM
@Abyx you need it to properly deal with number formats (and rejecting +/-inf or NaN), numeric overflow, not to mention character encoding and comments
 
@ScottW Fuck it hard baby
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I have 105k rep baybee
 
@sehe what? JSON has no comments
 
ah, so rep === leet programming skills. Got it.
 
You don't know it.
It has an incubation of ~3 years
 
7:28 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum There you go
 
@sehe :/
 
@Abyx Just naming a few things that you'd rather not do yourself
 
Another fun thing about MySQL: no transaction support for schemas. Hope your migrations never fail mid-way because of other MySQL bugs
 
@ScottW bad day?
 
7:29 PM
@sehe I don't need those things.
 
Someone was arguing that JSON should support comments. Lol.
 
@Abyx Good for you! Be merry
 
@CatPlusPlus wat
 
grabs popcorn
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit It shouldn't. But in practice most dialects do
 
7:29 PM
@ScottW lucky you
 
@CatPlusPlus so if your schema doesn't update all the way and gets messed up midway it'll just keep it that way?
 
well comments would be useful, but I generate JSON - I don't parse it
 
That's rather stupid.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yup
Welcome to GOOD DATABASE MYSQL(TM)
 
7:30 PM
@Abyx Then why would comments be useful?
 
@Abyx Like I said, good for you!
 
Although you make backups before schema changes anyway. That's still really dumb.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I mean in general. it would be great if JSON had comments, types, ... oh wait it's yaml =\
 
I haven't used MySQL in quite some time - so I'm rather distant from all that. I've used PostgreSQL and MSSQL for the last few years (as well as some NoSQL stuff) and while I'm not a huge PostgreSQL fan nor a MSSQL fan they've been heaps better.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit To explain the extra ",0" entry in the array (/* this added for convenience of the implementor */ ...)
 
7:31 PM
Either they couldn't figure out how to hide new schema from other transactions, or their retarded storage engine design struck again
Or both
Likely both
 
Worse. I fully expect them to have dismissed the feature as "YAGNI"
 
@sehe :)
@Abyx No, it wouldn't.
 
@Abyx well apparently raw string literals are OK but VC++ sucks at parsing (preprocessing) macros with them
 
Schizophreniac
 
@Abyx I NEED THEM FOR MY REGEXES !
 
7:35 PM
Actually, that's a lie
 
@A.H. yep. same here.
 
@Abyx Why is that?
 
@EtiennedeMartel why what?
 
@Abyx Why would you want comments in JSON?
 
@A.H. If your regexes are so godawful that you can't handle them without raw string lits, it's time to find a different tool.
 
7:37 PM
@Abyx You even replied to yourself. Don't act as if you can't follow response arrows now
 
@EtiennedeMartel for example for JSON config files
 
@Abyx You use JSON for configs?
 
@DeadMG they are not that bad, but raw strings are still useful. screw double backslashes
 
I thought JSON was meant for data interchange?
 
@EtiennedeMartel I don't, but I would if it has comments =)
 
7:38 PM
@DeadMG Not so sure about that
 
@A.H. i.e. screw regexes.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Configs are data
 
@Abyx So it's a non-issue, then.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Yes, but it's not interchanged.
 
@DeadMG I agree
 
I decided on JSON configs, too, but I also expose it via CLI (ala git config) and not expect anyone to edit them manually
 
7:38 PM
btw at least sublime text uses JSON for configs
 
Editing JSON by hand is annoying
 
What's wrong with XML fil... oh, never mind.
 
@CatPlusPlus it's better than XML
 
JSON is meant as an intermediate format between two systems.
Usually, two ends of a communication protocol.
 
What would you use for config?
 
7:39 PM
YAML?
 
Binary:)
 
@EtiennedeMartel Don't let Bartek hear you
 
@EtiennedeMartel where can I find a C++11 YAML parser?
fuck bartek
2
(he plonked me so he can't hear it)
 
(now he can)
 
yeah
 
7:41 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Not sure.
Alright, who flagged this?
 
Ell
Yamlcpp is one
 
@CatPlusPlus Why would that matter?
 
LRIO, at a guess:)
 
ITT you have any right whatsoever to ask who flagged anything
 
@EtiennedeMartel You must've missed the recent YAML rants
 
dragging my arse in here when I hate Coconuts.... Flagger, show yourself!
 
Also don't flag shit like that idiots tia
 
@CatPlusPlus That guy rants all the time on a varity of subjects.
It's rarely rational, even.
 
Bartek The Ranter
 
7:43 PM
Bantek
 
Cantek
 
Why do I get so many "what have I done?" moments :(
 
7:43 PM
@EtiennedeMartel There's no P in Bartek
 
Aztek
@R.MartinhoFernandes You do to much
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes > All the code I post on this site is released under the CC0 license, unless I mention it was written by someone else.
Are you sure you can do that?
 
@TonyTheLion There is if you lowercase it in the mirror, upside down
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit What? Dual license my code?
 
@TonyTheLion But there's one in penis.
 
7:44 PM
Oh you see through Bartek
 
Ew, See-through?
 
Vorsprung durch BarTech
 
dat pun
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I don't give out my copyright to Stack Exchange. I merely license it to them as CC-BY-whatever.
 
aaaaaaaannnnnnd rain
 
7:46 PM
I still possess all copyright over that IP, and am allowed to license it to others under different terms.
 
ITT everybody hates bartek
 
"I don't think you should ask this. I don't think we should answer you. ... Email me and I'll answer you" #lolwut
 
except me of course
<3 bartek
 
> You agree that all Subscriber Content that You contribute to the Network is perpetually and irrevocably licensed to Stack Exchange under the Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike license.
 
We're all Barket loving individuals
just sometimes...
 
7:47 PM
@Lightness from the TOS
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Spam it.
 
> This question is about a Project Euler, which responsible members of the CS community should not be answering in a public fashion. – Jonathan Henson
 
Basket cases.
 
in other news: evening ladies
 
OH NO NOT PROJECT EULER SOLUTIONS
 
7:48 PM
They kill kittens
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit So, yes, I'm fairly certain I can do that.
SO licenses my content to you under CC-BY-SA, and I license it under CC0. Your pick.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes They don't conflict? SO says it's CC-BY-SA so it's CC-BY-SA. You can't just choose a different licence on a whim.
 
Project Oiler deleted.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit If I, the owner of the copyright, give you that choice, yes, you can.
But thanks from bringing that up. I realised I needed to s/code/content/.
 
room topic changed to Lounge<Barket>: Loving Bartek more. [barket] [no-rants] [teen-math-drama]
 
7:53 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit By licensing the content to SO under CC-BY-SA, I give SO a license to license it to other people. That doesn't conflict with my ability to keep licensing it to others.
 
Une barquette de Bartek.
 
woops
 
What do you mean you can use your own content without attributing yourself!?!?!
 
I may have programmed pointers to be true if they're null, as opposed to not null.
3
 
:lol:
I'd keep it
 
7:57 PM
welp
succeeded in exporting a Wide function as a C++ member function.
despite Clang's best efforts to generate totally batshit insane code.
 

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