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12:02 AM
Hey, I just thought of something in terms about potential people to vouch for Red on the GSoC application who have open source credibility... what about Larry Rosen?
Can't hurt to ask... I'll send him a mail.
 
@HostileFork and everyone else involved: since I wasn't able to comment on the GOSC I'm telling you here I agree you did a great job raking together all those challenges!
 
@HostileFork Only you don't need people with open source credibility in general, but specifically Googlers or previously participating GSoC organisations :)
But maybe Larry can pull some levers at the ASF or SPI.
 
@onetom Thanks! I've seen some of the idea lists from other organizations and I think this one is pretty good.
@earl Well if working for Google is good enough I think having worked for Apache Foundation should be good enough...
 
@HostileFork No, that's not the point.
 
"Are you a new organization who has a Googler or other organization to vouch for you? If so, please list their name(s) here."
 
12:12 AM
Right. So, is Larry Rosen a Googler or other [GSoC] organization?
 
I'm not sure what the point is if "some guy I know at Google vouched for my project" is a good answer. It doesn't technically say "GSoC" organization, and I'm not really sure why that should matter either.
Well it's up to you if you want it blank. I dunno. I'm of the "something is better than nothing" philosophy.
 
I'm of the "read questions properly and don't provide fluff about things which you weren't asked for" philosophy. Esp when it concerns Google.
That Q is only about communication shortcuts for Google's program admins.
But the GSoC admins are generelly less picky, so in the end, it won't matter much. Worst case is less likely punishment for not following the rules but rather that they'll simple ignore you. Best case, I'm full of it, and it'll actually help.
(Not ignore you in general, but ignore the additional information in that particular A.)
No Softies-turned-Googlers among your professional friends, @HostileFork?
 
@earl I'm not one of those people who keeps "friends". :-)
 
Contacts, then :) ?
 
I know of people who work for Google but am not particularly in touch with them.
 
12:26 AM
Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 315 so chat away!
 
Greetings @GeoffMoller... we are here to discuss Rebol and Red. If you're not familiar with them... happy to explain what it's all about...
 
@HostileFork I made the required changes to Red organization.
 
@DocKimbel Looks nice! Is there a reason to not have the members list public?
 
0
Q: perform file encoding conversion with rebol3

giuliolunatiI need to read file latin1 and convert it in utf8, with rebol3. There is a builtin function, or some external library? Where I can find it?

 
@HostileFork It seems it's up to each member to declare himself as member publicly.
 
12:38 AM
@DocKimbel Well maybe ask them to... @earl is a member?
 
@HostileFork Yes, @earl and @PeterWAWood.
 
12:52 AM
0
A: perform file encoding conversion with rebol3

earlNothing built in at the moment, sorry. Here's a straightforward implementation of Latin-1 to UTF-8 conversion which I wrote (for Rebol 3) a while back (optimised for readability rather than for performance): latin1-to-utf8: func [ "Transcodes a Latin-1 encoded string to UTF-8" bin [binar...

 
@giuliolunati Notice that when you see those extra strings in the function specification block, those are what are used to automatically generate the help information...
@RebolBot
latin1-to-utf8: func [
    "Transcodes a Latin-1 encoded string to UTF-8"
    bin [binary!] "Bytes of Latin-1 data"
] [
    to binary! collect [
        foreach b bin [
            case [
                b < 128 [keep b]
                true [
                    keep b and 1984 / 64 + 192
                    keep b and 63 + 128
                ]
            ]
        ]
    ]
]

help latin1-to-utf8
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> latin1-to-utf8: func ["Transcodes a Latin-1 encoded string to UTF-8" bin [binary!] "Bytes of Latin-1 data"] [to binary! collect [foreach b bin [case [b < 128 [keep b] true [keep b and 1984 / 64 + 192 keep b and 63 + 128]]]]] help latin1-to-utf8
USAGE:
    LATIN1-TO-UTF8 bin

DESCRIPTION:
    Transcodes a Latin-1 encoded string to UTF-8
    LATIN1-TO-UTF8 is a function value.

ARGUMENTS:
    bin -- Bytes of Latin-1 data (binary!)
 
@HostileFork thanks ;-)
@earl good answer, is what I needed
 
@giuliolunati It's nice to comment your functions and parameters in this way instead of using semicolon comments, because they actually get used!
 
@HostileFork Somehow my comment got lost in the rollback. I strongly prefer "to-binary" over "to binary!", sorry :)
The excl mark just stands out a bit too much for my taste, so that it interrupts the reading flow.
 
1:03 AM
@earl I don't think we should be teaching new users that. It's about creating a bunch of pointless functions and obscuring the existence of the general purpose operator. I thought the tides were in favor of this.
You can't get away from the exclamation points... they're in the parameters and lots of other places.
 
To me, legibility isn't pointless.
 
foo: func [value [string integer]] [...]
Does that "flow better"?
 
In the function specs there's already lots of other punctuation, there they don't hurt. (Quite to the contrary.)
Elsewhere, you'll rarely see them (mostly only in type dispatching code written in a particular way).
 
Where number of types = N, to-T means you have N functions to avoid your exclamation point that belongs there, obscures existence of generalized TO (I didn't realize there was one because I copied from code where to-string was treated as foundational, so I think I had some switch statements on type and then calling TO-STRING or TO-INTEGER etc), compromises "words separated by spaces" ethos for a built-in, adds an additional function call in the interpreter...
 
@RebolBot
source to-string
 
1:09 AM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> source to-string
to-string: make function! [["Converts to string! value." value][to string! :value]]
 
Compound names separated with dashes is a foundational naming convention / style in Rebol, so no compromise there.
 
I'm also in favor of to-<type> rather than to <type>!, mainly because the combined words read as one word, so it makes the expression where it is used easier to read.
 
Yep, definitely.
 
@earl There should be as few compound names in the box as possible. When people see a compound name they should generally think "user lexical space"
 
@HostileFork Agreed, but only as a very very very low priority rule. The fetish to fit everything into single word identifiers has historically lead to some rather arguable naming decisions.
 
1:14 AM
But I often use the two words form in my own code, because of the missing [catch] attribute in the to-<type>wrappers, making error pin-pointing sometimes very difficult.
 
And yes, it's less efficient than to <type>. (Although it could be the other way round.) But oftentimes I absolutely don't want to care about that. Remember the insert tail vs append debacle ...
 
The dislike for substring type operations and then saying "ah, you get a toolbox" with COPY/PART and AT and you build it up. TO-STRING is not a good enough excuse for a compound.
Spaces in Rebol code are what make it look good.
 
Only that in this case the exclamation mark makes it look bad.
 
It looks consistent. If you're talking about string the type, it ends in exclamation point.
Losing the space, losing the generality, and being inconsistent... that looks bad.
 
So rename integer? to integer!? for sake of consistency?
 
1:19 AM
No. Notice I'm not suggesting creating TO-INTEGER! ... if it exists, it should be TO-INTEGER, but it shouldn't exist because TO INTEGER! is just fine and has a nice space in it.
 
An ugly space!
(Really wanna continue to debate taste?)
 
Yes. Because I don't want 30-some-odd extra stupid functions thrust upon the world when the goal here is supposed to be saliency, consistency, words separated by spaces. If you want it in your own code then define it, but the box is supposed to be small and elegant. This "I don't like exclamation points" line of thinking is selective, and one of those slippery slopes that would just lead to more bad cross products.
 
I don't see anything particularly inelegant about this.
"words separated by spaces" is a red herring as shown above.
 
The sooner people learn they can do to (either condition string! binary!) stuff the better. And the sooner either/if/unless doesn't require blocks the better, also.
 
Absolutely, that's an argument I can basically agree with.
Show them source, which is far more important.
 
1:24 AM
Well don't you see that the right intellectual toolset is to give them TO from the start, and not lead them down a pointless path?
 
Teach them to use the source.
Which enables them to make up their own mind.
 
Well let them make up their own mind on their own "macros for people who hate exclamation points" file, not something that just takes up space and adds overhead.
What about make-string and make-block?
 
Performance/legibility is a constant tradeoff in Rebol. I can't accept the "overhead" argument as valid in this case. You yourself always preach that people shouldn't be too concerned with performance micro-optimisations based on implementation details, in Rebol.
Not important in my opinion, due to significant differences in usage frequency.
Also, make type is rarely used in larger compound expressions. Also quite contrary to the usage patterns for to type.
 
Daniel Lisik, Strömstad, Sweden
2.2k 1 4 21
Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 2172 so chat away!
 
@earl +1
 
1:34 AM
Greetings @DanielLisik ... we're debating language naming issues, as is often the case here. :-) Are you here because of the Red ad?
@earl "exclamation points are ugly, and if a construct has an exclamation mark in it more than some psychological threshold I'm uncomfortable with, then we should find a way of memoizing the construct so the exclamation point goes away. If it's less than the threshold, oh well." Does that sound like a rational way of choosing the design of primitives provided in a language?
 
Does spoken language strike you as particularly rational?
 
I think it could be more rational than it is to no great detriment, if it were being put together by a centralized design team.
 
Besides, Nenad's argument of reducing the cognitive load by establishing a stronger "one operation" indication is far more important than the unneccessary visual noise introduce by the exclamation mark.
Also, you're not choosing the design primitives here, but rather the surface which needs to withstand the harsh reality of practicality.
Heh, big fan of Esperanto?
And probably of elitist utopias as well :) ?
 
Never studied it, but I think arguing that Esperanto is bad and English is good should push one more to say "well just use JavaScript". Yes, utopian ideas and thinking through things are a strong inspiration for me... things will be messy enough without you making them that way on purpose.
 
Esperanto is a bad example actually, but not sure how much Volapük and it's background is generally known.
Volapük ( in English; in Volapük) is a constructed language, created in 1879–1880 by Johann Martin Schleyer, a Roman Catholic priest in Baden, Germany. Schleyer felt that God had told him in a dream to create an international language. Volapük conventions took place in 1884 (Friedrichshafen), 1887 (Munich) and 1889 (Paris). The first two conventions used German, and the last conference used only Volapük. In 1889, there were an estimated 283 clubs, 25 periodicals in or about Volapük, and 316 textbooks in 25 languages; at that time the language claimed nearly a million adherents. Volapük ...
 
1:43 AM
This isn't the biggest issue to worry about, obviously, but I do prefer that we be using TO STRING! to show people the primitives. If anything, TO-STRING should be for the "experts" (who I'd think wouldn't be so squeamish about the exclamation point in a type after writing so many function prototypes... and not need it.)
 
The whole argument here is precisely not that something happens because of "making [it] that way on purpose".
Human language is shaped by its users, more strongly than by any other force. It's this usage, the always and without exception introduces irregularity to cater for practical aspects.
To my eyes, TO-STRING is a nod to a nuanced and reasoned practical reflection.
Again, the design primitive TO isn't going away.
 
I rarely think manually writing out cross-products in languages has much reason to it. Anyway, it's not the biggest problem, I just wish we weren't showing it to new users off the bat when they're trying to understand the language. Kind of how I want us to update all the FUNC to FUNCTION (as soon as that pull request will get into the mainline :-/)
So I'm not as concerned about it being in there as I am in people putting it in answers to questions and creating a speedbump where people aren't learning what's really going on. I'd rather they learn the basics and then how to abstract it while they're getting a grip on things.
 
@HostileFork Again, show them source! That is several orders of magnitude more instructive and useful.
 
1:59 AM
I mention Volapük in this context, because it was an interesting attempt at being very prescriptive about language. In a "let's not add a word like 'fuck' then people can't and won't swear" kind of naiveté.
 
@hostilefork I wonder if the slow updates to SO chat are related Jeff A leaving SO and recently setting up discourse.org - maybe it was a pet project for him before he left?
My 2 cents: to-string is my preferred variant. ! seems to be shouting or ending a sentence
Room for both to be in the language
 
@earl Well there's setting an example, with the ends-in-? thing, I don't think anyone's suggesting "only functions returning logic will be allowed by the interpreter to end in ?" I'm suggesting that this attitude about exclamation points does not resonate with me; being able to see my variables more easily amidst the primitives and having more spaces is more important.
 
@HostileFork I'm with Nenad on this in that having more spaces in this case is actually harmful.
 
2:47 AM
@earl If you had your 'druthers, would you want downloads.rebol.org pointing to the server that serves rebolsource? (108.162.197.75) How do you feel about rebolsource.net being the daily builds and downloads.rebol.org being the builds that come from "stable" branch? The proposal is two automated builds.
 
3:02 AM
@HostileFork Sounds good. Re the pointing: CNAME it to cn01-dro.rebolsource.net (unless we control the rebol.org DNS, then we can probably do better).
 
I'll propose that for a start.
 
3:32 AM
@HostileFork when did you say that the GSoC selections would be made?
 
@Adrian Application is due Feb 14. I think their announcements are made March 10th at the same time that student applications begin, because that's when all the projects go up on the website for students to start looking into them. Student applications due March 21st, so that's not a whole long time to choose to apply for.
 
I wonder how many organizations they get applying. Could it be in the thousands?
 
Well, it's worldwide. I don't know. It's enough that last year they turned down Haiku, after sending them students the previous couple of years. Maybe the proposals weren't as good, or maybe they didn't feel there was good outcome from the previous year's students. Hard to say.
 
@Adrian Last year, 177 out of 417 organisation applications have been accepted.
 
hmm, surprisingly few applicants
You'd think there were a lot more, worldwide.
 
3:44 AM
Well, it's a bit of work. I'm regularly suprised the other way round :)
 
 
1 hour later…
5:03 AM
Q: "Why is your organization applying to participate in Google Summer of Code 2014? What do you hope to gain by participating?"
A: Our belief is that the Red project has an inspiring mission, with a design and implementation that verges on alien technology--and will capture the attention of top-tier students. Because of this confidence, we don't plan to wind up as babysitters. What we mainly hope to gain is great code and insights for our system, from students with great talent.
"We'd also love to see an expansion of the interest in Red among younger programmers. Most of those working on Red (and its parent language, Rebol) were users of Amiga computers during the mid-80s and early 90s, or even involved in the development of the hardware and operating system. Transferring some of the knowledge and enthusiasm of that culture (which had a strong community in Europe but was overrun by IBM PCs in the US) would help market Red to a wider audience."
Something like that? Or too long? I could just leave it at "We'd also love to see an expansion of interest in Red among younger programmers." I kind of tend to write more than people want to read.
 
6:01 AM
Moderator elections coming up. Candidates have to answer questions. Whether you care or not to weigh in, it's still kind of interesting:
130
Q: 2014 Moderator Election Q&A - Question Collection

Grace NoteIn connection with the moderator elections, we will be holding a Q&A with the candidates. This will be an opportunity for members of the community to pose questions to the candidates on the topic of moderation. Participation is completely voluntary. Here's how it'll work: During the nominati...

As an SO economist, I think I'd like to see the price of downvotes raised.
I wonder what the effect of making downvotes cost -5 would be.
 
6:32 AM
So my post a couple days ago to the Google Group had precisely one response, from @earl.
I don't use these things, they strike me as... poor ways to keep up with information, no versioning... it's not enough of a game. As far as I'm concerned, Usenet and its clones are dead. Things going on here are more alive. I sometimes get in disagreements with SE management, and like anything it can turn bad if we don't keep copies, but there already are copies of the Q&A, anyway. And RebolBot logs chat, supposedly.
@johnk Is it possible for RebolBot to track gaps in its operation and fetch missing chat messages into the database? I think a complete record of the chat would be nice. It's not clear that SO considers that a priority or really desirable to let you download; they deliberately disable some features in the chat search/RSS due to the belief that it should be "sort of transient" and not a way to stalk people.
 
@hostilefork that is one of Graham's features that I haven't looked into yet. So far the bot is very rarely down. Even when she can't talk she can still listen
 
@johnk We should try and get a R/O mirror up just as proof of concept to make sure it's working...
 
6:48 AM
I also have to teach my phone not to correct bot to bit
 
I got a bunch of email when I was trying to find a new home for pathetic dog about the "dig".
 
Okay, 1 file per message in json format. Filename =message number
 
One bit and his dig. Like one man and his droid...
@johnk One file per message? :-/ That sounds... excessive.
 
Simple though
 
Well ext2 has a limit of 10^18 files. Guess we're not close to that yet. But FAT32 only does 65K files. We might be somewhere around there on messages. :-)
 
6:59 AM
Might run out of space before then
 
@rgchris had a suggestion of going kind of towery with a logo, something like that, mock-up. I think I'm liking the idea.
So for favicon, Redbot, etc.
Think I like it white on Red better than red on white.
Should work well shrunk to small sizes. Fits the motif better than the skewed E, though a similar premise. Ties things together.
 
@HostileFork +1 for the logo, it expresses both Rebol / Red syntax and Red Full-Stack language
 
I haven't really seen anything that looks like that, either.
@gwailo59 Well this is one of the reasons I do like the idea that the logo is a motif... if you haven't seen: Red Logo on Trello
I like it better than the three lines skewed. So I'm going to try drawing a 16x16 favicon.
 
@HostileFork seen it now. Unfortunately, I don't have your time. I don't understand how can you manage to do so many things.
 
@HostileFork listening to a good podcast by Bas Vodde - he just mentioned he used to work at MS on VC++ - one of you old team mates possibly?
 
7:12 AM
@gwailo59 Well, lots of people here can be quite productive. I am assisted by the lack of any full-time profession, or family, or friends to distract me from whatever thing I might feel like doing. :-)
@johnk No, had a couple VC guys come to work on our project but I never worked on it myself
 
@HostileFork No job, no family, no friends... you're kind of Robot sites.fastspring.com/amanitadesign/product/… Maybe Joseff can be our mascot ;)
 
This was the pre-favicon concept (kinda looks familiar :)
 
@gwailo59 I suggested that, we had the contacts...
 
@HostileFork Great ! This game is the best game have ever played. And it was powered by Rebol for the Flash version !
 
7:21 AM
@rgchris I think a version more like my direction will make for a better RedBot that miniaturizes to avatar, as well as favicon. The more variants the better, but we do have some very specific slots to fill.
But definitely a good suggestion, hadn't thought of putting together the brackets with the tower yet.
 
@RebolBot
print "Time to commute"
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> print "Time to commute"
Time to commute
 
@gwailo59 TTYS, don't forget we need the French for the What is Red video :-)
 
@RebolBot
[time to commute [alert "Must Leave"]]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> [time to commute [alert "Must Leave"]]
== [time to commute [alert "Must Leave"]]
 
7:27 AM
@Respectech congratulations on getting your article published. Nice work!
 
7:40 AM
@johnk Listened to most of the talk, bit of skipping :-) ... gardening metaphor interesting; I agree that it's kind of dumb to be using metrics on codebases, but rather on things that measure the quality of the product and customer/employee satisfaction. Lines of code is the textbook example of a "bad" metric.
 
@HostileFork yes, I publish my work on my github. Near half done.
 
That was quick. I usualy listen to podcasts at 2x speed, but it still takes a while
 
I skip when I know what they're saying, look for the pictures. :-)
Is it a podcast if it's a video?
I thought that was just audio
So the guy on the Google Group who couldn't run dungeon.red is using Manjaro linux... I didn't see his recent post here in the feed, @rgchris. Did I miss it or is it not picked up?
 
I just listen to the audio using a screen scraper app to generate the RSS feed with just the mp3, so for me, yes, a podcast ;)
github.com/mattalbright/infoq-rss useful if you like audio only feeds like me
 
7:56 AM
@HostileFork Some weirdness in the RSS feed—for some reason their feed doesn't sort by newest first: I'm pulling the 15 items feed and it's not included, it's in the 50 items feed though...
 
Runs on heroku - another target platform for rebol and red
Can anyone else * this one as it has dropped down the list already - chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/14626665#14626665
(or maybe I should get a screen with a higher vertical resolution)
 
@HostileFork And apparently there is no way to alter the sort order, so I either take a bigger gulp (sucks) or miss posts! F'ing Google!
 
@rgchris Shh, shh, we are asking something of them. :-)
But, um, I just posted to it and it said my post is awaiting moderation (again? Can't I get whitelisted) but then I reload and it down at the bottom has an invisible post that says "this post has been deleted". Whose post? The one I just made? I don't feel the communication loop is closed properly, here.
 
F'ing is short for Fascinating
 
Yes, thanks @johnk—that's what it is. Yep.
 
8:06 AM
I'm logged in--why can't I see my message and if it's pending, how long it's been there, etc?
@rgchris Maybe there's a way to request the 15 most recent posts vs. the comments on the 15 most recent topics? (or something?)
I'm not sure what they're giving you, but there may be hidden options, that they don't document and change on a whim.
I mean... I'm sure they have their reasons. :-)
Hm, doesn't like dropbox URLs.
Well, I wasted my time signing up for DropBox today since... it doesn't seem to actually serve images without weird boilerplate HTML or missing file extensions
 
@HostileFork Need to use your Public folder for image sharing.
 
Greetings @liumengjiang - long time no see :-) We are asking for people who have some time to help us translate What is Red into other languages if you find you have the time...
@rgchris The folder is public. :-( dungeon running on that manjasomething linux
That plush Machinarium robot is pretty cool. It's a disgrace that Flappy Bird is getting all this ridiculous press while real artists live in relative obscurity. Something... not right... about... this planet.
I played Flappy Bird and can decisively tell you: It is terrible.
I guess, in a way, it is terrible in a notable way... being just playable enough that you might play a few rounds, and maybe even show it to someone to show them how terrible it is, and they might play a few rounds. But if you spend any amount of time trying to get good at it, something is wrong with you.
 
@RebolBot delete
 
@rgchris sometimes edits don't trigger a delete pickup. It probably should.
@rebolbot delete
 
@RebolBot delete
 
8:19 AM
@rgchris Can you elaborate on that?
@rgchris What do you mean?
 
I was wondering if I could tell it to delete things you asked for :-)
@johnk Only admins should be able to do that, I assume...
I feel like @RebolBot delete, if it's not a reply to a specific message, should mean "delete the last thing I asked for". If you want to delete something someone else asked for (a) you should be a room owner, and (b) you need to reply specifically to it
 
Meh, no curl on TryRebol any more...
Anyway, with a count of 5, get:
"2014-01-09T17:31:40Z"
"2014-01-10T02:53:01Z"
"2014-02-09T08:02:00Z"
"2014-01-10T08:22:08Z"
"2014-02-09T23:33:46Z"
And with a count of 50, get:
"2014-01-09T17:31:40Z"
"2014-01-10T02:53:01Z"
"2014-02-09T08:02:00Z"
"2014-01-10T08:22:08Z"
"2014-02-09T23:33:46Z"
"2014-02-03T21:12:31Z"
"2014-01-28T15:03:42Z"
"2014-01-28T08:42:37Z"
"2014-01-13T06:11:51Z"
"2014-01-28T11:34:34Z"
"2014-01-27T10:10:49Z"
"2014-01-21T20:35:05Z"
"2014-01-22T14:03:53Z"
"2014-01-21T22:06:33Z"
"2014-01-22T07:37:56Z"
"2014-01-23T06:25:54Z"
"2014-01-13T07:40:19Z"
"2014-01-14T07:19:14Z"
"2014-01-14T10:12:19Z"
"2014-01-15T10:04:23Z"
"2014-01-16T02:21:03Z"
"2014-01-17T08:19:23Z"
So, must select with some non-date criteria, then truncate for shorter requests.
 
@rgchris The URL I put up was just something I found on a "how do you get the feed for a group", it may not be canon. There could be another way to get latest
 
@HostileFork As far as I can tell, it is—if you hit 'About' above the message listing, that's the feed you get.
@HostileFork Can't remember how to do this through the web interface, but for files in the 'Public' folder, you can do this from Finder:
 
It seems now you can only publicly share by picking "share link" but that link gives you stuff with boilerplate or obfuscated extensions. So not stuff you can use to embed images in websites/etc.
Reminding me of some of the cruft on PhotoBucket and other sites that want to put their banner on there, so even though the URL ends in PNG it's a wrapper
Sending content-type HTML
On one angle I don't mind, people have to find their angle I guess... but don't be sneaky about it. If it's not a PNG, don't end the URI in PNG
 
8:34 AM
That's too bad. I use an older (pre-Evernote redesign) Skitch to upload to my own host. Another one is Puush...
 
@rgchris Heh, I actually did some contract work on Skitch :-)
 
:) It's a nice little app...
 
@rgchris Couple of cute features; but I prefer the bigger apps like ScreenFlow, even if you have more buttons to push.
I wish SO chat did drag and drop images like the main site, don't know why I have to click "browse" to upload.
 
8:49 AM
Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 2812 so chat away!
 
Greetings @GuntisTreulands... curious about the Rebol and Red projects? We are here to help, 24/7! Sort of. Except the part where I do need to go to sleep at some point. :-)
 
9:16 AM
posted on February 10, 2014 by fbou

Hello Brian, i am using Manjaro Linux. uname -r -> 3.10.28-1-MANJARO cat /etc/issue -> Manjaro Linux I removed the long comment and it is still not working on my Linux Box. On Windows 7 it works without changes. As i wrote i added a few print lines for debugging to the script to get an idea where th

 
@HostileFork yes, but I don't think it will cause world war 3 for a while yet
 
9:46 AM
So is redbot going to be male or female?
 
0
Q: How do I use the Red cURL binding?

redbotI am just getting started with Red and I need help to get the cURL binding working. The cURL link from the main red-lang site takes you here http://red.esperconsultancy.nl/Red-cURL/dir?ci=tip But there is only a small example using Red/system hence I am not sure how to load the binding in Red ...

 
Welcome @redbot ;)
 
Red2D2 :-)
 
I was thinking, it might not be that hard to do a cut down version of rebolbot in red
The lack of I/O makes it a bit of a challenge, but if we just did the tryrebol bridge it might not be too hard (and then it would not clash with existing rebolbot - we don't want a bot argument)
 
 
1 hour later…
11:04 AM
Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 70 so chat away!
 
 
2 hours later…
1:16 PM
Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 25002 so chat away!
 
1:43 PM
@johnk a couple things about the bindings. Right now there is a regression that seems to be messing with imported files being double loaded, I guess. You need to revert the fix for 626 to be able to compile them
 
2:25 PM
0
A: How do I use the Red cURL binding?

kealistA few things to address: Currently there is a regression with the fix for issue 626 that needs to be reverted in order to compile the bindings. Next, there are some dependencies between bindings. I am maintaining a github clone if you don't want to use the script download.r in the Red-test fil...

 
Didn't get to finish that, but need to play around a bit more. I believe Kaj's console version has a higher level abstraction for read (see how you can use read on TryRebol to access internet)
Gotta run, but I will try to build something this afternoon as time allows
 
3:07 PM
@RebolBot do/red
read "http://www.google.com"
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> read "http://www.google.com"
== {<!doctype html><html itemscope="" itemtype="http://schema.org/WebPage"><head><meta itemprop="image" content="/images/google_favicon_128.png"><title>Google</title><script>(function(){^/window.google={kEI:"UI77Uuz_GOXoywPps4GQAg",getEI:function(a){for(var b;a&&(!a.getAttribute||!(b=a.getAttribute("eid")));)a=a.parentNode;return b||google.kEI},https:function(){return"https:"==window.location.protocol},kEXPI:"17259,4000116,4007661,4007830,4008067,4008133,4008142,4009033,4009565,4009641,4010806,4010828,4
 
3:47 PM
@johnk Thanks!
 
 
2 hours later…
5:50 PM
Had a temptation to use new-line breaks as meaningful in a dialect. But I think I decided one should never do this, and must use explicit keywords or otherwise for any effect--even if that effect is outputting newlines. Would anyone argue otherwise?
 
6:09 PM
So I was thinking that I'd look at the idea of dialecting HTML in such a way that blocks were used to indicate distinct lines, with maybe some kind of notation for indent and outdent if you wanted it.
<html>
+
[<h1> {Some heading} </h1>]
[html {<div id="} (model/main-div-id) {">}]
+
[<p> {Some paragraph} </p>]
-
</div>
-
</html>
 
Why don't you just generate one line of HTML? Why you need new lines?
 
I'm trying to avoid the notion that tags with dynamic content are parsed and turned into code, and that you can really find all the dynamic parts by looking for PAREN! in a structural sense.
@rebolek Well, I'm trying to provide control for those who want it. You wouldn't have to use it.
I'd be okay with a compromise of not controlling the indentation but using newlines in the output, which is the minimum for me being able to read it.
The idea of having constructor macros triggered by issues, like [#div id: (model/main-div-id)] appeals to me; I'm just looking to find a way out of parsing strings to find code.
+ and - don't seem like very good characters for the indentation management, as you'd wind up putting them on the beginning of lines, and that is contentious with diff reports. But > and < seem a bit confusing as it will be some HTML. :-/ entab, detab? Any conventions on anything like this from other dialects?
 
6:51 PM
Hm. I am for the first time troubled that there is no "empty tag!" in normal source.
 
7:01 PM
How about to seek contact with the (Free)BSD community for getting Red to the FreeBSD platform? (They have an application for GSoC 2013 on their web, probably unsuccessful)
Tried to solve issue #626 by introducing a percent-rule in the lexer that catches a single % sign followed by a space. Alas with no success. I tried some variations on the slash rule to solve it. Maybe I didn't get the right combination or maybe the key is in the routine! that should be copied through to the Red/System level.
 
7:58 PM
@earl ah yea I've kinda started with it as well. I also started from the begginning though
 
8:31 PM
posted on February 12, 2014 by Jacob

I have not programmed in red yet(waiting to be able to fully program android stuff kiss style), I was wondering... If functions are called this way; do-stuff arg1 arg2, does that not make the code hard to read?  When would one be able to tell if arg1 is a function or just a value?  I suppose an ide

 
8:55 PM
@graph How far did you get?
 
9:29 PM
prosseek, Austin, TX
19k 35 185 386
Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 19044 so chat away!
 
10:07 PM
@Feeds Responded to this Google Group question.
 
10:49 PM
I'm surprised at the behavior of the keyword 'to' in the function 'parse' with charset arg: according to my intuition it should work like this:
v:"aeiou"
rule: [ to v insert "!" to end]
w: "bcdat"
parse w v
print w
=> bcd!at
but Rebol 3 give me
=> !bcdat
can someone give me a tip?
And: how can I quote a string?
hj"hj => "hj\"hj"
 
@giuliolunati The easy answer is to use a different string delimiter: {hj"hj}
But you can also use the caret sign (^) for escaping: "hj^"hj".
 
But the string comes from a file, it isn't literal ...
 
Why do you need to quote it, then?
 
I must convert a text file in a json-like
 
@RebolBot
replace/all {foo"bar} {"} {\"}
 
10:57 PM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> replace/all {foo"bar} {"} {\"}
== {foo\"bar}
 
@giuliolunati You can use REPLACE/ALL to replace " with the JSON-escaped \" version. See the bot example above.
@giuliolunati Your intuition is probably right. That's a known bug: issue.cc/r3/1457
 
@RebolBot
replace/all {foo\bar} {\} {\\}
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> replace/all "foo\bar" "\" "\\"
== "foo\\bar"
 
@earl Ok it works! Many thx.
 
@giuliolunati If you want to use a parse rule, you could use TO with several alternatives, instead of a charset:
@RebolBot do
parse s: {foo\bar"baz} [any [to [#"\" | #"^""] insert #"\" skip]] s
 
11:04 PM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse s: {foo\bar"baz} [any [to [#"\" | #"^""] insert #"\" skip]] s
== {foo\\bar\"baz}
 
I'm using literal characters in the alternatives, that's the #"..." syntax. But you could just as well use single-character strings.
 
ok, this was my goal :-)
 
@RebolBot do
parse s: {foo\bar"baz} [any [to [{\} | {"}] insert "\" skip]] s
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse s: {foo\bar"baz} [any [to ["\" | {"}] insert "\" skip]] s
== {foo\\bar\"baz}
 
@earl That issue is very old... is the code actively maintained?
 
11:08 PM
@giuliolunati The issue is back from long before the open sourcing, when maintenance was basically stalled.
Should not be too hard to fix now, but it probably wasn't on anybody's radar.
 
@earl Because now focus is on Red, I suppose?
 
@giuliolunati Well, also because there's literally hundreds of little issues such as this.
 
@earl If I want to contribute?
 
@giuliolunati That'd be very welcome.
 
@earl Ok maybe I'll do. Thank you!
 
11:14 PM
@giuliolunati Here's the implementation for PARSE: github.com/rebol/rebol/blob/master/src/core/u-parse.c
Also, be warned that you'll need a bit of patience and perseverance. We're still fighting out the aftermath of the open sourcing. So the process is far from being as smooth as it should be.
 

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