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7:00 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Uh, let me sum that up. You asked me what my preferred method is, I responded reflection, and then you said I "have next to no experience", and after my denial, proceeded by "right okay, you know best, what is even the point in having the rest of us".
way to go.
 
user1804599
You know.
 
@BartekBanachewicz No, you will see that the final message was a response to "that's both incorrect and not an actual argument."
 
user1804599
I want return goto;.
 
Keep on building those strawmen, though, because you're really fucking good at it.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit fixed.
doesn't change a thing (as usual)
 
7:02 PM
@BartekBanachewicz No, it's not fixed. Your "that's both incorrect and not an actual argument" was a response to "That's because you have next to no experience" which was a response to "I see no reason why they should not". This is fun
 
@rightfold I'll send it to you as a Christmas gift.
 
Let's repeat the whole conversation; see if you get it this time
Are you aware that SO chat has little "replied-to" markers by each post, that show you which message the reply was intended to follow?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit since the whole conversation is above, I still don't fucking get how you could go so much downhill so fast.
 
this is such a gentle conversation
 
@rightfold I'll send you a spare one
@BartekBanachewicz Huh?
 
7:03 PM
I wanna see blood God dammit.
 
@StackedCrooked fuck off
 
user1804599
Thanks. :D
 
user1804599
I will return them back to you when I’m done with them.
 
7:04 PM
@rightfold Please clean off the sperm.
 
@StackedCrooked Aaand an innocent bystander takes a hit! :)
 
@ScarletAmaranth He explicitly asked for it!
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Why don't you say why, in your opinion, reflective query generation is worse than building queries by string concatenation instead?
 
@BartekBanachewicz I don't recall ever stating such an opinion.
 
He's terribly sorry to have you caused you such... terrible pericombobulations.
 
7:06 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Why did you call me out on lack of experience when I mentioned that I use such system, then? Oh wait that was after I said Django is using pony magic, which is effectively equal to "it's a black box to me" to me.
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked je moeder doet dat al meteen als we klaar zijn.
 
My point is that, at some level, you're still building a query by string concatenation. Django's DB model is pretty horrible, consisting of reams of completely illegible code, and it doesn't really buy you anything. That's my opinion.
 
@rightfold I teached her.
 
@BartekBanachewicz What the fuck? I didn't.
 
user1804599
Aug 1 at 10:51, by StackedCrooked
He insulted my mother just like unusual. So I didn't suspect anything wrong.
 
7:06 PM
> rightfold: That will work great because your models always map 1:1 with your database!
> Bartek: I see no reason why they should not.
> Me: That's because you have next to no experience.
Why don't you use the little replied-to icon to find out what I'm replying to?
 
Ok, wet, cold, but cheered up by best bug of the day:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/20666196/homepage-videoplayer-expands-vertically
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit But you don't interact with that code directly, do you? And I think that the production speed gain of using that is rather obvious.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I think the speed loss of using that is obvious.
In the vast majority of cases, such complexity is totally unnecessary.
I do not need to install a fucking web framework in order to compose an SQL query.
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz @LightnessRacesinOrbit Have a snicker.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit so it's faster to write functions that concatenate SQL queries by hand than to state a class such as MyModel: string name, shit, foo; int bar; ?
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Again, are you referring to the complexity in the framework implementation?
Because from user's perspective it's dead simple
 
user1804599
7:09 PM
My model has bar, but in my database bar is actually in two tables with custom data types. Oh, and also a reference to a foreign table.
 
you can have foreign references in django models
 
@MartinJames I don't understand what's funny about it..?
 
@StackedCrooked Maybe it's just me:)
 
Is it the vertically huge part?
 
And I see the tradeoff. That's why I specifically mentioned edge cases; django shines when eliminating boilerplate.
 
7:11 PM
@BartekBanachewicz How do those declarations aid you in stating ordering, filtering and pagination parameters?
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz foreign table ≠ foreign key.
 
@BartekBanachewicz The complexity in using one in the first place, for a start.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit that's a part of the view, not the model
 
user1804599
Hmm.
 
7:13 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit is using django complicated? How many apps have you built with it? (actual question, not meant to offend)
 
@BartekBanachewicz So you want to accept 150,000,000 rows, then order and paginate them in-memory on each request?
@BartekBanachewicz Zero. I don't use bloatware.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I see.
 
user1804599
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Lazily with cursors might work.
 
@rightfold And how does that fit into Bartek's model of purity?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Lazy evaluation, as hornypony said. The query is made after you view a particular model
 
user1804599
7:13 PM
Though I have never used cursors and I don’t know the caveats.
 
I don't see any code to do that in his "comparison" example. Apparently you can do it all just by writing MyModel: string name, shit, foo; int bar;
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz “hornypony” :D
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit uhm, that's obviously data structure. Selecting rows is not a part of that.
 
Plus cursors don't help you with ordering, and you end up with a recordset open far longer than it needs to be. Do you know what that does to contention? In a high-performance system?
@BartekBanachewicz What? So we're back to ordering in-memory, then.
Get 10 rows in ascending order of field X, with Y,Z columns. Take data, use data. Done.
 
user1804599
They named a function isEquals?? — phresnel 3 hours ago
 
7:15 PM
None of this airy fairy bullshit is necessary or helpful
 
user1804599
ewww
 
> error C2660: 'std::shared_ptr<Component>::reset' : function does not take 1 arguments
what the hell
 
user1804599
> 1 arguments
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I don't think you get how that works.
 
7:16 PM
@rightfold Java, why you no operator overloading
 
@rightfold compiler can't into grammar :p
 
But I can't really go into detail now because I have to go. If you read a bit about Django, we could get back to this discussion later.
 
user1804599
@Griwes Java has overloading; + is overloaded for integers, floating-point numbers and strings, among other types. Just not custom overloading for any user-defined type.
 
user1804599
Pedantry is great.
 
I am not like loving it to death, but I think it's decent for common, boilerplate tasks.
 
7:17 PM
@rightfold You just went more pedantic than me. Awesome.
 
And after you know how to use it, speeds up the process significantly.
I've made pages using raw string concatenation and that's fit for very specific scenarios, not generic yet-another-shop-chat-whatever page
 
user1804599
Django’s ORM does not support compound keys. :(
 
@BartekBanachewicz Why don't you go ahead and explain it, then?
@BartekBanachewicz I know all about Django.
 
@rightfold Have you been reading my old posts again? :-)
 
user1804599
SQLAlchemy is relatively nice, but I heard rumours about it not working well with Django (auth and stuff). Have to check it out, though. Also dynamic typing meh.
 
user1804599
7:19 PM
@JerryCoffin Again? That would imply I ever read them in the first place.
 
user1804599
Oh wait, I did read that post. :F
 
@rightfold Good point, now that you mention it.
I just couldn't think of anybody else (around here, anyway) who'd been quite that pedantic about that exact subject before...
 
user1804599
I didn’t even remember that question.
 
what the hell would make a shared_ptr's reset(T* ptr) member not exist? :E
 
user1804599
I was such a noob back then. :D
Now I’m still a noob but slightly less.
 
user1804599
7:21 PM
@melak47 C++.
 
@rightfold ._.
 
@rightfold did you see this?
Wim Helsen is always a bit strange.
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked No. Did you?
 
I just did.
It's about how Holland sucks compared to Belgium.
Apparently.
 
7:24 PM
@melak47 A buggy stdlib. libstdc++?
:D
 
@Griwes msvc ._.
 
user1804599
> Plaats*je* Amsterdam.
 
@Borgleader ?
 
@melak47 Even better! ;D
 
@StackedCrooked Everyone sucks compared to Belgium :P
 
user1804599
7:24 PM
Huge city compared to anything else in this country.
 
@melak47 Oh I thought you meant it didn't exist in the specs and I got confused
 
@Borgleader It seems you are well informed :)
 
@Borgleader no, it works in one function and in another it says "reset doesn't take 1 arguments" >_>
 
Oh o.O that's even stranger
 
oh, hold on.
 
user1804599
7:26 PM
@StackedCrooked Vergelijk die dommeriken maar eens met onze schaatsers, zwemmers en voetballers.
 
one's a template function, the other not
it works in the templated one
 
It's a comedy act. We know NL is superior at most sports.
 
user1804599
Do you have a government ATM?
 
Today, yes.
 
user1804599
Right-wing or left-wing?
 
user1804599
7:27 PM
Oh, wait, Brussels. Obviously the latter.
 
user1804599
My favourite politician was voted politician of the year.
 
@Borgleader blergh. taking the std::type_index I use as a key in my map by value instead of by reference fixes the problem. o.O
 
@rightfold who?
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked Ons Geertje. :x
 
Wilders
 
7:30 PM
oh lovely.
 
user1804599
Hey I got an upvote.
 
@rightfold Congrats, you don't suck monkeyballs.
 
How do you know?
 
@Borgleader bleh, no it doesn't :E
 
user1804599
Hmm.
 
user1804599
7:35 PM
 
user1804599
I don’t know. ;_;
 
@rightfold can't read. What are the two columns?
 
@rightfold I'm gonna say doesn't compile. interleaving code like that on one line doesn't work :p
dafuq is happening ._.
 
user1804599
#include <cstdlib>
#include <iostream>
struct A { A() { std::cout << "A()" << std::endl; } ~A() { std::cout << "~A()" << std::endl; } };
static A a;
void f() { std::cout << "f()" << std::endl; }
int main() {
    std::atexit(&f);
}
 
user1804599
@rubenvb this.
 
user1804599
7:38 PM
The quiz is: “what’s the output?”
 
@rightfold dammit neither do I. But I guess that atexit will be executed before ~A().
 
user1804599
I say the program will be terminated because << throws due to failing memory allocation in an implementation detail in ~A().
 
My reasoning is that the atexit callback should be able to safely access static instances.
 
C++14 says concurrence
C++11 says in the reverse order of static inits.
Which is also what C++14 says.
But anyways. I guess you weren't after that.
And I now spoilt it for you.
 
7:41 PM
How is this chuck yeager hat secret to people that have earned it
 
Geez... the sheer number of duplicate answers on this question is staggering. I wish a moderator could come and clean them up. I can't vote-to-delete anything that doesn't have a negative score. — Mysticial 7 secs ago
 
@Collin My guess is that you answered a question fast. Chuck was the first pilot to break the sound barrier.
 
^^ not sure if we care about a Java question. But it'd be nice to get some help deleting some of those duplicate answers.
 
makes sense.. did not put yeager together with fast for some reason
 
user1804599
7:43 PM
 
@Mysticial Deploying votes.
 
@StackedCrooked You're right. "If the completion of the initialization of an object with static storage duration is sequenced before a call to std::atexit (see <cstdlib>, 18.5), the call to the function passed to std::atexit is sequenced before the call to the destructor for the object."
 
@Griwes can't move from initializer_list
 
@Rapptz That's exactly why I throw arrows at it!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Awesome :)
 
7:43 PM
Types bool, char, char16_t, char32_t, wchar_t, and the signed and unsigned integer types are collectively called integral types. - why the hell does the standard name these types as integral types -> is int just a "theoretical typedef" of one of the said types dependent on the architecture? or how am I supposed to interpret this?
 
@JerryCoffin And that's all what matter in a quiz. YAY!
 
@ScarletAmaranth What?
 
For sanity of use, I will probably let my classes be variadic templates taking std::unique_ptrs instead of vectors of them.
It's so broken.
 
Ell
@ScarletAmaranth It's the other way around (I think)
 
@Mysticial Ha, your hat is awesome.
 
7:46 PM
@StackedCrooked Yes--incorrect reasoning, but still the correct conclusion (in this case).
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes :D
 
posted on December 18, 2013 by Anders Schau Knatten

Today was my first day at my new job as a staff engineer at Outracks Technologies. Outracks is a small startup in Oslo creating Uno, the world’s first hybrid CPU/GPU programming language, and Realtime Studio, a powerful, easy-to-use IDE for real-time graphics in 2D and 3D. In other words, theywe’re the coolest technology company in […]

 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You're really fast at citing the standard :).
@R.MartinhoFernandes I was looking for "integral type" in the standard, this is what the standard says, I am confused
 
@ScarletAmaranth Practice :D
 
Dammit, I mess up.
My message seemingly disappeared so I posted it again. Turned out my first message was an edit.
 
7:48 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit It's really funny because I had the standard open as I randomly refreshed the C++ tag.
(no clue how you managed to do it faster really)
 
@ScarletAmaranth I've usually got it open, for use on SO. Then it's a case of spending 30 seconds scrolling down to about where I think library exceptions should be discussed, giving up, and ctrl+f'ing what(). F3, F3, F3. Done.
 
@ScarletAmaranth I don't understand the confusion. That set is the set of "integral types". That doesn't imply anything other than that set having that name.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit The game of SO.
 
:13608645 But @rightfold also has sort of the right idea. Due to uncertainty about order of static initialization, it's possible that the A gets created before and destroyed after cout, so it produces no output.
 
@StackedCrooked Yepper. I don't have 95k for nothing ;)
 
7:51 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes So, this means that "int" is not an integral type, but an arithmetic type? But that's weird, because then we have stuff like floats and doubles in that group too.
 
@ScarletAmaranth int is included through "and the signed and unsigned integer types"
 
@ScarletAmaranth You did pretty well though
 
@JerryCoffin I would expect cout is created in iostream header? (as a static?)
 
Some previous paragraph defines which are "integer types".
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes OH! MY GOD :D
 
7:52 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You have 95k because you cannot get that extra 5 :)
 
Which would make cout's lifetime greater than A's lifetime.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes thank you robot, here's a... can of oil for you?
 
if cout is an extern variable then it's really undefined
 
I don't have a flash drive big enough to put the Windows installer in it.
FFS
 
7:53 PM
how big is it?
~3gb?
 
@StackedCrooked Not really. Both are required to be initialized before entry into main, but their relative order isn't specified.
 
ISO is 2GB.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You're insane, just saying :)
 
Also... FUCK, I downloaded Visual Studio instead of Windows 7.
12
 
@StackedCrooked cout is extern, but <iostream> has this weird Init thing with static instances.
 
7:54 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes haha. Buy one, it'll set you back what? €10?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes, Windows 7 is 3.3GB.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh, an easy mistake to make... LOL!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes too good
 
@Griwes A weird Init thing? The plot thickens..
 
I have 8GB on my key ring.
 
7:55 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes you can implement Windows 7 with Visual Studio.
 
@ScarletAmaranth I know :)
 
@StackedCrooked It's actually a little more complex than that. There's a class named ios_base::init that's supposed to create and destroy cin, cout, cerr and clog. The standard describes the class, but (at least as of the '03 standard) doesn't seem to have any requirement that an object of that class be created to do its thing.
 
@rubenvb Yeah, but I didn't want to make an excursion to an electronics store at 9pm.
Sigh.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
Gonna ask my flatmates first.
 
7:57 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes buy online, delivered the next day?
 
@JerryCoffin Initialization and destruction of streams happen in ctor and dtor of Init. See my link above.
 
Download more flash.
 
@rubenvb If I have to wait, I can buy it tomorrow.
 
Download more ram.
 
burn a DVD.....!
 
7:57 PM
No DVD drive.
 
ask a neighbour!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes If you don't have it, then download it.
 
@StackedCrooked It's basically a reference counting thingy, where the streams are the shared object and TUs are owners. :P
 
So, when embedded in our tool, our engine runs faster at 60 FPS than 200 FPS.
(Man that was hard)
 
:D
 
7:59 PM
Heh - my box has a DVD drive, but I've never used it. I stole its data cable at some stage to connect another hard disk.
 
Probably has something to do with the cross process communication overhead at every frame.
 

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