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12:00 PM
@Potatoswatter I am most assuredly a genius, and I expect to be addressed as Mr Genius Sir
 
In mathematical logic and computer science, lambda calculus, also written as λ-calculus, is a formal system for function definition, function application and recursion. The portion of lambda calculus relevant to computation is now called the untyped lambda calculus. In both typed and untyped versions, ideas from lambda calculus have found application in the fields of logic, recursion theory (computability), and linguistics, and have played an important role in the development of the theory of programming languages (with untyped lambda calculus being the original inspiration for functional ...
 
@DeadMG oh gosh, getting pompous now :P
 
heh
 
1
A: Error control in constructors

Luchian GrigoreUsually you have to put all sensitive code outside the constructor. Consider setting the radius in a init() method which you call after the constructor.

I'm tempted to downvote.
 
I did
 
12:02 PM
@Potatoswatter I mean, which language is that ?
 
@TonyTheTiger I am pompous and I enjoy a good pomping
 
@kbok That is the entire language. Can you clarify?
 
Hmm, the thick plottens.
 
omg what happened to the noob tips?
 
> Well base16 are shorter, but as I just realized this doesn't really do a very good job of masking the original Guid (seems equivalent to just removing the dashes). By all means, provide me with another option. – Ben 1 min ago
 
12:03 PM
backslash represents lambda…
 
I need someone IRL to talk to, I haven't spoken to a real life person in a few days, anyone volunteer? :P
@DeadMG yea I noticed :P
 
If you are new here, please read the newbie hints. Thank you.
13
 
@hexa Pins only last for a maximum of 14 days. They have to be re-pinned every so often.
 
@hexa Nothing.
 
@CatPlusPlus What's the problem with unsigned ?
 
12:04 PM
@MartinhoFernandes I feel safe again ty
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: The land of style Nazis
 
@kbok What unsigned?
 
We need someone who is pinpous… if they are pompous too they can be pimpous.
 
@jalf that's a dare
 
2
A: Error control in constructors

Konrad RudolphA good method is not to allow the error to compile! Use an unsigned type for variables that allow no negative values: the sooner an error can be caught, the better. If the error cannot be caught at compile time, exceptions are the next best solution in most cases.

 
12:04 PM
@jalf Heil Style-Hitler!
 
@kbok I didn't even read the code.
unsigned is specific to that snippet, but bailing out of the ctor is not.
 
@CatPlusPlus Ok.
I was wondering if there was something specifically wrong with unsigned.
 
> If you think in absolute terms (NEVER do that, or ALWAYS do it like this), you're probably going to run into trouble sooner or later.
Oh how I HATE when people use that argument.
 
Always validate your input. Always release your resources. Never access memory you don't own. Never attempt to free memory twice. Need I go on?
 
@DeadMG yes
 
12:10 PM
@TonyTheTiger shut it you :)
 
lol :P
 
You're always going to run into trouble sooner or later, so there's the fallacy.
 
true that :)
 
You should never put your fingers into the electric plug. No exceptions.
 
And it's always the most idiotic advice that is defended by that.
 
12:10 PM
No exceptions! No exceptions!
 
hi all i'm not able to post my question here in stack overflow due to the captcha not working properly
anybody can help me out!
 
@kbok How do you fix an electric plug without touching it?
 
If it doesn't work, report it.
@kbok Unless you're made of rubber.
 
@CatPlusPlus I feel sorry for people like that, who actually need it to be written into the rules that "sometimes you may need to break the rules".
 
12:16 PM
Ok, I'm giving up on that GUID vs. base64 question. The asker doesn't know what he wants.
 
@MartinhoFernandes Here's a shocker.
 
@jalf Rule #1: "Never" never mean "never".
 
"Never" never means "never" sounds better.
 
@MartinhoFernandes Putting your fingers into it is not going to fix anything, lol
 
My fingers would never fit in there… I'd need to get a small child.
 
12:20 PM
@CatPlusPlus Now he doesn't want to use hexadecimal because he doesn't want to expose the GUID. But base64 was fine.
 
encrypt the GUID!
 
weird. Just got an upvote on an old question regarding VS2010 beta 1
 
google
 
yeah, but even if someone found the answer, why would they want to upvote it?
what's the relevance?
by the way, it was an answer, not a question
 
Well I've more than twice did that. I think it still was worth an upvote, after all it helped me :P
 
12:42 PM
@MartinhoFernandes Lol.
Ah, browsers. JS code that doesn't work only on Opera, and only in production.
Greeat.
 
@CatPlusPlus what's up vanilla face?
 
@jalf If i find an old answer that has helped me with my problem, I will upvote. Shows my appreciation.
 
@jalf I usually do that too
@jalf upvote if I find an answer that helps me
 
Who would be helped by a post about a bug in a beta version?
Who the hell is still using VS10beta1?
 
Huh, they just closed the "chat to question" feature request.
 
12:56 PM
Was the bug certainly fixed?
 
@kbok Closed as a dupe.
 
@MartinhoFernandes good question, some guy sticking to the old beta maybe ;P
 
huh, nothing came up when I looked for it
 
I think the betas have date-based expirations hardcoded.
 
sbi
@kbok Link?
 
1:00 PM
It's not really a duplicate, and the linked question is quite old and has no activity.
 
3
Q: Move to question from chat

DeadMG Possible Duplicate: Chat “propagate” function? We have a new feature where extended use of comments is moved to chat. I'd like to propose the reverse- chat room owners should be able to move (potentially multiple) lines of chat to a new question. The question would be "aske...

 
lol, fastest gun in the west ;)
 
@Collecter yeah, but who finds an answer specific to the beta version of a product that was released a year ago useful?
 
@jalf That guy apparently.
 
4
Q: Chat "propagate" function?

Mark PetersTo avoid cannibalizing the main Q/A bodies of our sites, and to make sure that things which are better suited as a question are asked there, what do you think of a "propagate to question" button for your own message or conversation in a chat room? I'd envision that you could click this button wh...

I posted in the duplicate
 
1:02 PM
Using old betas is asking for trouble.
 
Goooood morning everyone.
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel It's 3pm.
 
It's 9am in UTC-5.
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel You guys are so far behind us.
 
@EtiennedeMartel So the one guy here with a European name is the only one not in Europe…
 
1:04 PM
I am 9 am as well.
 
My ancestors were French.
 
@Potatoswatter My name is European.
 
And french is my first language.
Soooo.
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel So what?
 
So yeah.
 
1:05 PM
@EtiennedeMartel good afternoon
 
@MartinhoFernandes Ah, fair nuff. For that matter, it's 6 AM for me :vP .
 
Slow day is slow.
 
sbi
@Potatoswatter What are you doing in a chat at 6am??
 
good morning @EtiennedeMartel
 
@sbi Chatting?
 
1:06 PM
@Drahakar Hey, get back to work.
 
Stupid boss...
 
sbi
@ManofOneWay Are you at work? :)
 
What? @Etienne is @Drahakar's boss?
 
nah :)
 
@sbi You know it baby
 
1:07 PM
@MartinhoFernandes No. "Friends" is more accurate.
 
@sbi are you?
 
sbi
@ManofOneWay How would I know where you currently are?
 
@sbi Because you're a gorilla
 
Touché.
 
I wonder if @MartinhoFernandes is at work
 
sbi
1:08 PM
Jul 24 at 10:12, by sbi
@Raynos That gorilla avatar is just a disguise. Actually I'm a bonobo.
@EtiennedeMartel Actually not.
 
sbi
@ManofOneWay No need to say that. We knew.
 
@ManofOneWay Well, I'm at my workplace, but work only starts at 14:30.
 
@MartinhoFernandes Sounds lazy.
 
@MartinhoFernandes Don't know your timezone but I'm guessing that will be in 20 minutes from now. Which means you are in time! Good!
 
sbi
1:11 PM
@CatPlusPlus It's slower than slow.
 
I should do some work today
hardly even opened Visual Studio
 
> visited 662 days, 226 consecutive
Heh.
 
sbi
If this day were any slower, it'd be yesterday.
 
eh, old man sbi hasn't joined us yet
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus I knew it was there, just took me a while to dig it out.
@0A0D ???
 
1:14 PM
@sbi oh hey there ol chap :) How are you today
 
sbi
@0A0D I'm grumpy. What did you expect?
 
by the way
 
@sbi Nothing more, nothing less of course
 
I'm guessing that it's really, really hard / impossible, to automatically verify the thread safety of a function
 
@DeadMG From wikipedia -
However, there are several indicators that suggest the need for careful examination to see if it is unsafe:

accessing global variables or the heap
allocating/reallocating/freeing resources that have global scope (files, sub-processes, pipes, etc.)
indirect accesses through handles or pointers
any visible side-effect (e.g., access to volatile variables in the C programming language)
 
1:16 PM
It's impossible to do if you don't define what "thread safety" means.
 
it means, "Has the same externally visible effect if called concurrently as called serially".
 
@DeadMG the same visible effect as some serial order?
 
yes
 
Which serial order?
And you cannot determine thread safety of functions in isolation.
 
@MartinhoFernandes just "a serial order exists which has the same effect"
 
1:19 PM
yeah, but I'm not talking about in isolation
in "DeadMG++" then it's quite rare to not be compiling from (effectively) source, and I've introduced a threadsafe specifier
 
@DeadMG depends on how you feel about solving the halting problem, I guess. ;)
 
the issue that I'm facing is how I can aid the user in proving or disproving thread-safety
 
give the user better primitives than locks/mutexes
 
yes
as my current implementation is going to pre-process into C++, then I can pre-process into using Microsoft's PPL or Intel's TBB
 
This room seems to get more and more people.
 
1:21 PM
what I've also been thinking about is a kind of negative test
like
I can prove that you don't have some kinds of thread-related bugs
 
sbi
@0A0D Then why did you even ask?
@DeadMG Yeah, please come over and do that.
 
by propagating threadsafe, kind of like propagating const
 
How do you propagate threadsafe?
 
sbi
@Collecter Yeah, if it'd be any worse, we'd be typing on each other's toes.
 
well, just like C++ propagates const
that doesn't, of course, mean that the actual function ordering is valid in as of itself
only that each individual function called would be safe
 
sbi
1:23 PM
@DeadMG There was an article about propagating arbitrary attributes in C++ somewhere... <rummages_through_google>
Here it is.
 
I can totally do arbitrary attributes
whether or not they'd be of use is, of course, another question
 
threadsafe void f();
void g(); // no threadsafe
threadsafe void h() {
    take_some_lock();
    f();
    g();
    release_said_lock(); // let's ignore exceptions for the sake of argument
}
 
sbi
Now the room is almost dead, because I sent everybody away reading some old article.
 
Well, some people are actually working.
 
@DeadMG that's generally doable if you ensure that inter-thread communication/synchronization is expressed explicitly through message passing or perhaps transactional memory. With locks, I don't think anyone has managed to prove anything very useful, other than that they suck for synchronization
 
sbi
1:30 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Well, we have 27 users currently in this room, on a Thursday GMT afternoon. That is a lot.
@jalf LOL!
 
And yet no one new chats.
 
we have even more users than the JS room
 
And every C++ user is worth like 5 JS users, so do the maths
 
sbi
@Collecter You seem new to me and you chat. Did you forget yourself or am I being rude not recognizing you?
 
@sbi Yeah, I'm not talking about those people.
 
1:32 PM
@sbi You're being rude- I've seen him a few times before :P
 
@sbi Well i have been here a few weeks.
 
In fact I'm not including myself in the "working" bunch.
 
I can totally do the D approach here
 
@EtiennedeMartel ahahha
 
@DeadMG What's the D approach?
 
1:32 PM
not only are types objects in "DeadMG++", but you can inherit from that type which represents types
 
sbi
@Collecter Ah, so you are new. :b
 
so you totally could do such a thing
 
@sbi Yes.
 
@sbi I believe he dropped in while you were on your vacations trolling your kids, or something like that
 
sbi
1:33 PM
@MartinhoFernandes The D approach is to do every thing: SP, OOP, FP, GP, TMP...
 
Damn scroll-to-bottom doesn't allow me to see earlier messages.
Bloody JavaScript.
 
sbi
@hexa I never troll my kids. I bully them.
 
@sbi Not RAII, though
 
@sbi :P
 
@sbi You were not here when I first stopped in, so probably.
 
1:34 PM
@sbi You beat them for their lunch money?
 
sbi
@DeadMG When it comes to D, I'm operating on hearsay. I never looked at it closely.
 
@sbi Same here- @jalf said it had no RAII
 
@DeadMG I did?
I hope not. I know no more than you about D :D
 
@jalf That is what you said the last time we discussed D. You said "Why would anyone move from C++ to D when D does not offer C++'s killer feature?"
that's virtually word for word, by the way
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes That would be stupid. I rather let them work for their lunch. (That also has the advantage of being a socially recognized form of bullying your kids.)
 
1:36 PM
D has garbage collection.
 
sbi
@DeadMG Just quote the damn message and stop affirming.
 
@MartinhoFernandes Optional garbage collection, IIRC
 
not something us native programmers usually view as an upside
 
@DeadMG no, I meant source compatibility with C and C++ ;)
 
@sbi I've no idea when it was, how on earth would I find it?
 
1:36 PM
It does seem to have scoped destruction. digitalmars.com/d/2.0/exception-safe.html
 
@jalf oh :P no language is ever going to be source compatible with C++, the grammar is just too bad
 
that's C++'s one indisputable killer feature. That alone makes up for a lot of horrible syntax and ridiculous complexity
 
@jalf Yep.
 
sbi
@DeadMG You click on @jalf's icon, go to his chat user page, and enter the appropriate terms into the search box. Really, how long have you been here?
 
1:37 PM
In fact, that compatibility is the source of most of C++'s flaws.
 
@sbi A long time, and I have never needed or used it :P
 
Double edged sword, I guess.
 
@DeadMG I do. GC is a nice bonus, but it only solves a small subset of the problems solved by RAII, so it's obviously not a suitable replacement. But having a GC is not, in itself, a bad thing
 
@jalf * a lot of endless charm <= fixed that for you
 
sbi
@DeadMG Amateur.
 
1:38 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Exactly why nobody will by source compatible with C++- you'd have to introduce way too much crap into your language and C++ is practically the example of how it goes horribly wrong.
 
Endless chasm.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Huh?
 
Fun all the way down.
 
1:39 PM
@DeadMG I think considering how an horrible idea that is, it could have been much worse.
 
I've generated meself a brand new DF region.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Digital Fiction?
 
You're playing the latest version?
@sbi Dwarf Fortress, I guess.
 
Yeah.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Was that in reply to me or to @Martinho?
 
1:40 PM
I've tried graphical tilesets, and after a year, they still suck.
 
anyway C++ has optional semantics for GC support, but it remains to be seen if anyone will create an environment pure enough to use it
 
@sbi I guess you'll never know.
evil laugh
 
which is pretty much the same situation with any such non-sandboxed, compiled language, right?
 
sbi
@Potatoswatter Whom are you talking to?
 
Yeah, who?
 
1:42 PM
@sbi anyone still talking about GC
 
So, yourself.
 
sorry, I was delayed by my cereal
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Oh, I won't lose any sleep over it. One more or less incomprehensible gibberish from you...
 
sbi
@Potatoswatter So your GC stands fro Grand Cereal?
 
1:43 PM
@sbi Granola — nice how that works out!
 
Back soon. doughnuts were delivered.
 
sbi
Oh, the irony: Google's web-page-speedup wants me to wait 24min. to have my page tested to see if can be sped up http://t.co/HoNM94Q
 
Sucks to be Joel.
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel You are Joel??
 
@sbi Not yet.
But one day, I shall be.
Muhahahahaha
 
1:46 PM
@sbi plastic surgery is planned for December
 
I'm not sure what to make of that.
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel Sounds a bit like Being John Malkovich
@MartinhoFernandes Of what?
 
Damn, I need to buy a fancy keyboard. I think I'm getting RSI or something.
 
Damn you, JavaScript heisenbugs.
 
Mmmm. doughnuts.
 
sbi
1:50 PM
@MartinhoFernandes I'm using a wrist pad made of leather. A former boss bought that for me, when I asked him, and I took it with me when I left there. That works pretty well, actually.
 
Like this:
 
sbi
@Collecter I'm tempted to "flag this message as spam, inappropriate, or offensive".
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes That's not quite leather, from what I can see.
 
@sbi Do so if you must.
 
1:52 PM
@MartinhoFernandes The French way
 
sbi
@Collecter Thanks. (It wasn't me, BTW.)
 
Well that's what Google gave me. Is something like that, but made of leather, that you're using?
 
@sbi I am tempted to think it is like the wrist thing archers use. Is it?
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes No. I'll go hunting for a pic on google.
 
I got of bunch of different things for "wrist pad".
 
sbi
1:56 PM
@Collecter Something like the pad underneath that keyboard.
 
@sbi I was thinking something you strapped to your wrist. I know what you are talking about though. I have one at home.
 
That seems a lot better than a fancy keyboard. And is probably a lot cheaper.
If it helps. I'm not even sure a fancy keyboard helps. I just heard so.
 

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