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12:20 AM
@Josh why should I explain it. Some day someone will come by with the solution and I will accept it
meanwhile you can try and solve it
 
 
6 hours later…
6:01 AM
Heh. I can sort of understand the "pile of poo" symbol. :)
But why does Unicode 6.0 have "woman with bunny ears"?
 
Probably Japan again.
 
user457812
6:22 AM
Definitely Japan.
 
6:36 AM
lol
 
 
2 hours later…
8:28 AM
Hi.
 
@MartinhoFernandes Hi
 
does the usual wikipedia check for today
Today is the 97th anniversary of the start of World War I.
 
hooray?
 
I'm doing a Boost 1.47 build. How come the build executable is called b2?
 
Wasn't it bjam in 1.46?
 
8:34 AM
bjam2 was too long or something?
 
Oh, it's a new build system?
 
I don't know; also I've never built 1.46 myself.
I'll check if there's a help/version message when it's done.
I'm too lazy to open another terminal >.>
 
For me, a new terminal is usually a keystroke away.
Ctrl+Shift+N.
 
Ctrl-Shift-T here (I guess it's a Gnome thing)
But then I'd have to navigate into the directory and all!
 
8:39 AM
I have to confess that I'm building Boost because Phoenix is making me salivate so much.
 
No package for your distro yet?
 
Heh, 1.47.
 
Well, it's Ubuntu remember. So I'm actually using the Debian repos even for 1.46.
 
We are just moving to 1.42.
 
No idea why 1.42 is picked as the current 'stable' release.
 
8:40 AM
It's also the stable release on Gentoo.
But I already found an overlay for 1.47-r1
(not sure what the r1 is)
 
What's overlay?
 
It's like a modification to the official package tree.
 
is this offensive?
 
@MartinhoFernandes I see. The Debian package system has PPAs (but perhaps you already know this). I've never thought of looking for one that provides Boost though.
Oh, the irony. A PPA for 1.42 to backport to even older distros.
 
@TonyTheTiger: Likely, our corporate proxy filter does not let me see it.
 
8:48 AM
@wilx hahah
 
The Gentoo community is usually pretty fast in coming up with updated overlays because the "packages" in Gentoo are just streamlined build scripts. You can usually just modify an older one to download a more recent source code snapshot.
 
@MartinhoFernandes I seem to recall they had a discussion on their mailing list about coming up with a new name for it, because it had very little to do with jam, so the current name was misleading
 
Oh, so it is completely different and new?
Like the previous CMake attempt?
 
no, it's still bjam, but bjam was once upon a time based on jam, I guess
but it's diverged so much by now that it's silly to call it anything related to jam
 
I had no idea there was such a thing as jam.
 
8:50 AM
me either
anyway, I'd forgotten all about it until now, just rang a faint bell when you mentioned it here. So it's possible i've got the facts mixed up a bit ;)
 
I put it in toast.
 
> Boost.Build 2011.04-svn
I couldn't stand the suspense, this is from ./b2 --version
 
heh
 
I have not seen a single project use pure Jam.
And Boost is the only one I know that uses BJam.
 
8:52 AM
That would be messy.
 
 Usage:
  bjam [options] [properties] [install|stage]
From --help.
 
I think there was also some kind of disambiguation and/or unification going on between bjam and boost.build. It was never clear which was which to me, or what the responsibility of each was
 
And someday there will be Ryppl.
 
perhaps... ;)
Boost has a lot of things they're good at, but managing their build tools doesn't seem to be among them
my only experience with bjam is in building boost, and it's pretty awful for that
 
Distributing C++ software is hard, isn't it?
 
8:55 AM
Why is it awful at building boost?
It's just $ ./bjam
 
@MartinhoFernandes Needs more -j 4 imo.
 
:)
(btw, I usually go for ncores+1 as the default: I don't want threads stopped waiting for I/O :)
 
@MartinhoFernandes because it uses 1.8GB of memory for 20 minutes before it even starts compiling teh first file?
 
@jalf Ouch, never noticed that.
But then, I only manually built boost once.
 
or because the way to customize your build is so arcane, underdocumented and inconsistent that mere mortals can pretty much forget about it except in very simple cases
Some stuff has to go in a .jam file stored... somewhere, using one syntax. Other stuff goes in the command line, using one of two other syntaxes
 
8:59 AM
FWIW I've been done compiling for 5 minutes.
 
and unlike make, you're not just trying to understand a set of declarations and dependencies, but a goddamn imperative programming language
 
Mouahahaha
0
Q: table expanding after call data from database "PHP"

Egma<?php $dbhost = 'localhost'; $dbuser = '/////////'; $dbpass = '////////'; $conn = mysql_connect($dbhost, $dbuser, $dbpass) or die ('Error connecting to mysql'); $dbname = '///////'; mysql_select_db($dbname); mysql_query("SET NAMES 'utf8'", $co...

 
Turing-complete build systems seem fashionable.
:(
 
@jalf I thought Boost.Build was declarative though.
 
@MartinhoFernandes well, wake me up when they can do it with TMP then ;)
 
9:01 AM
You want to wake up because it was a nightmare, right?
 
@LucDanton from what I've seen, some of it is, some isn't
@MartinhoFernandes no, because the day someone writes a build system using TMP, it'll be so epic it'll compensate for its nightmarish qualities ;)
 
Would it make sense to use -isystem path/to/boost? I'm getting warnings for 'deleting a polymorphic object with no virtual destructor' from Boost.Exception.
 
Did you enable the Effective C++ warnings?
 
@jalf It would obviously need user-defined literals to build an analog literal dependency graph, too!
@MartinhoFernandes Good joke.
 
I got some warnings from boost a while ago when I enabled them.
@LucDanton Huh, I'm not joking.
 
9:03 AM
[-Wdelete-non-virtual-dtor] I guess I can disable that one.
 
Hello 2 all, can i post a linux/Java question here? Java topis is dead i think..
 
I may not know what I'm talking about, but I'm not joking.
@croisharp Last I checked wasn't dead.
 
@MartinhoFernandes The joke is that this warning is for the last decade, or even the one before that.
 
@croisharp you can, sure, but you may or may not get an answer :)
however, I hear stackoverflow.com is a pretty good place to ask Java questions
 
If Java is dead, then it's party tonight.
2
 
9:04 AM
I have a question, i am a .NET programmer, programming enterprise applications using cool stuff like wcf, asp.net MVC, entity framework, linq2sql.. I want to migrate to free and open source world, because i am tired of big microsoft product prices, windows server, sql server enterprise, visual studio ultimate, and non microsoft as devexpress which makes life easier and nicer..
I choosed a linux distributive: gentoo (experienced in debian, but not what i want), and Java programming language, will be this migration easy? Is Java good choice, because i am afraid of Oracle and their intends to make a Java premium version? Is python a better alternative?
I want freedom, sry for bad english :)
Thx in advance
 
@croisharp I've been working on .NET open-source for a while.
 
@croisharp Why the hell would you want to move to Java ?
 
All the languages you mentioned have free (libre) implementations, haven't they?
 
I don't understand your question.
 
Mono isn't good for enterprise, and who knows, what will NOVELL do with it..
 
9:06 AM
@croisharp About your last question: Yes, python is a better alternative.
 
But what with enterprise
 
> Mono isn't good for enterprise
I have no idea what that means
 
@croisharp Who knows what will Oracle do with Java?
That's not a good argument.
 
@croisharp who knows what whatshisname will do with Python? Or what the standards committee will do with C++, or what Matz will do with Ruby?
 
If you're going into web and want to have fun, have a look into RoR. It's getting big, and developers are rare.
 
9:07 AM
i know i tried it.. not all is implemented like in Microsoft .NET
 
Every language and every platform can change, if those in charge want it to
If you want freedom from that, write your own language
 
@MartinhoFernandes Probably nothing good.
 
@croisharp The Mono implementation is compliant with the 4.0 spec.
 
@croisharp Sure. That's why it's more fit for the web.
 
If you're saying they didn't implement the Microsoft-specific tools....
And you like those Microsoft tools....
 
9:08 AM
but honestly, I don't really understand what you need. Nothing outside of .NET offers the specific libraries you use now, so you'll need to rewrite your code anyway.
 
And what, python or Java, for enterprise perspectives?
 
What's "enterprise" perspectives?
I keep thinking of Star Trek when I hear that word.
 
busness aplications, systems that controls the work of a company
 
is this "enterprise" in the "daily wtf" sense of the word?
 
9:09 AM
like ticketing systems..
 
@croisharp for those, I'd pick the language that works best within that company. That might depend on what they need the application to do, which platforms they need it to run on, and what other software it needs to communicate with
There's no silver bullet
 
@jalf And support.
 
Although I would suggest C# and .NET.
 
Which is not uncommon, but less prevailing in the open-source world.
 
Java stinks, but it's widely used, and can run nearly everywhere. python is slow and schizophrenic and require a lot of discipline to use because of dynamic typing. Every language sucks
You'll just have to decide what kind of suckiness you can live with, and what kinds are unacceptable
 
9:11 AM
I think i will switch to Java and gentoo. Thanks for answers
 
The optimistic version: languages are hard to use because solving problems with programming is hard.
 
the realistic version: what kind of enterprise will tolerate a programmer rewriting everything in a different language just because he's worried about what Microsoft will do next?
 
Going open-source sure has many advantages, but these are not pertinent within corporate/bpm stuff.
 
Ok another question, is java spring mvc much harder that microsoft asp.net mvc?
 
no clue
 
9:14 AM
Bingo!
 
Morning.
 
i mean of configuration.. i heard that there i many xml
 
Java is not that much open-source. Oracle is anything but supporting open-source, and when your apps grows bigger, you'll have to rely on products like the ones IBM provides.
 
The last time someone mentioned Java Spring here, it was that factory-bean-singleton-abstract-proxy-thing
 
@croisharp Everything Microsoft has made in the last 5 years has been 60% XML anyway. How can that possibly scare you when you're looking at alternatives?
 
9:14 AM
It's starred on the left. We're very proud of it.
 
Then it's 30% guids, and 10% actual code
 
@jalf You forgot about XAML.
 
That's another XML variant (I think it's an XML subset, but I'm only 99% sure).
 
XAML is valid XML
 
@MartinhoFernandes My point is that it's mimicking XML, but it's not even XML-compatible.
 
9:16 AM
in the last 5 years has been 60% XML anyway
I dislike wpf - xml, i like wcf, less xml (using *.svc with IIS hosting), and some appsettings, isn't to much xml..
 
isn't it?
 
@kbok What breaks it?
 
It even has those awkward XML namespaces and everything. I can't see why it wouldn't be valid
but admittedly, I haven't tried running a xaml file through a XML parser
 
Are dots in element names valid XML?
 
I think that's allowed, yeah
 
9:17 AM
No it isn't.
Just checked.
 
So apparently ./b2 --install completely ignored the --prefix I set during ./bootstrap.sh, thanks Boost.Build.
 
ah ok
 
I can't remember, it's been 2 years. I'll look for some reference about it.
 
Wait, I checked bad.
I'll have to check more.
Damn, the XML spec is confusing.
Ok, it's valid: NameStartChar | "-" | "." | [0-9] | #xB7 | [#x0300-#x036F] | [#x203F-#x2040]
It's just not valid as a start character.
 
9:19 AM
yeah
 
I don't see any other thing that could be malformed XML.
Syntax extensions are usually contained inside attribute strings.
And you even have to use &lt; and such.
 
Yep. I think OpenXML was XML-incompatible some time ago, and MS fixed that.
I'm sure I have read a rant on a GNU page or something, but I can't find it. It seems now that XAML is fully XML-compatible.
 
Is there a short version on how to configure ld.so to look for libboost* in /usr/local/lib?
 
Set LD_LIBRARY_PATH appropriately?
 
Well, don't I look dumb now.
 
9:25 AM
Or add the path to ld.conf.
 
I think ldconfig can do something like that too.
 
sbi
> there's been a lot of talk about the C++ Renaissance. I'm happy to see that phrase get picked up, and I've got another one for you: Modern C++. Or as some folks like to say "not your father's C++". gregcons.com/KateBlog/GoingNativeOnChannel9.aspx
3
 
Sorry, I didn't paint the entire picture: the older version is still on my system, using ldd reveals that ld.so is picking that version instead of the newer one which I think should be visible to ldconfig given that it's in /usr/local/lib.
(At least the path is in one of the .conf file in /etc/ld.so.conf.d)
Well screw all this, I'm uninstalling the old version.
Well screw 'screw all this', I have dependencies.
 
Make sure /usr/local/lib is before /usr/lib or wherever the older version is in the config.
 
9:38 AM
'Unfortunately' ld.so.conf is only doing include /etc/ld.so.conf.d/*. Let's try putting that before the include.
(The only thing being unfortunate is that I hate doing this kind of things.)
Ah yes, what I'm trying to do isn't possible I think. I'm linking in something that depends on 1.46. Time to build another lib!
 
... and then another! And another! And eventually you're rebuilding your entire system!
Highly unlikely.
 
Nah, it's the only thing that depends on 1.46 Boost.
 
It would be... weird... if your entire system depended on boost.
 
I remember weird things happening when I did shady configuring for libstdc++ actually.
 
Oh, that's dangerous.
 
9:45 AM
Not enough that all of the system is unusable but yes.
 
When a GCC update becomes stable in Gentoo BAM! There goes a whole day in a full system rebuild.
 
Oh god Boost.Build can't find my Lua install I have to modify the Jamroot file or something.
 
What are you building? Wasn't it working before?
 
I'm building Luabind instead of using the distro package, it depends on Boost and uses Boost.Build for building.
 
@MartinhoFernandes glibc takes longer.
 
sbi
10:03 AM
 
10:14 AM
Damn, people can't read.
5
Q: covariant return types with multiple inheritance. how does this code work?

LeoCan anyone tell me how does return type covariance work in the following code? class X { public: int x; }; class Y: public OtherClass, public X { }; static Y inst; class A { public: virtual X* out() = 0; }; class B : public A { public: virtual Y* out() { return...

It says "multiple inheritance" in the title, has multiple inheritance in the code, and has .
And I learned that C++ has covariant returns.
 
@MartinhoFernandes That's not that surprising, is it?
 
No, it's just that I never wondered if C++ had it.
Though I don't think I ever needed it.
Usually when I use virtual functions, I tend to make all calls through the base class.
Here's a tip for writing documentation: Avoid writing "All members are threadsafe" if your class is full of potential threading bugs.
 
10:38 AM
"All members are equally thread-(un)safe"?
 
it's even risky to enter them from a single-threaded program...
 
Also yay, Boost.Phoenix operational!
 
how many of you guys are using std::copy with an output iterator in real life? just curious...
 
This looks a lot like the original author knew what he was doing and made everything threadsafe, then someone else came and added new members, and messed everything up.
 
@6502 I do, but I use C++ as a hobby.
I don't get why the StaticVisitor concept of Boost.Variant requires a result_type nested type instead of using the Boost.ResultOf protocol :(
 
10:41 AM
Same here.
 
@6502 I've done that quite a few times. Is pretty handy IMO
 
@6502 Although I may use std::transform more than I use std::copy and I don't use ostream_iterator (and related) that much.
 
@6502 Oh boy, you're right.
This is not even safe to use in a single thread.
> If a thread calls AcquireWriterLock while it still has a reader lock, it will block on its own reader lock; if an infinite time-out is specified, the thread will deadlock.
This could happen.
 
@MartinhoFernandes what's that from?
 
What's not safe to use in a single thread is a class in the code I'm working on, not .NET's RWLock.
Just in case someone misunderstood that.
 
10:54 AM
Adding all of Phoenix in a project-wide precompiled header means a 1min43s full-compilation time (for a small, hobby project), but a 12s partial build. Worth it?
 
You mean 1min43s to regenerate the pch, and 12s to compile with the pch existing?
 
Whether or not it's worth it depends on how much of the Phoenix functionality you're actually using
 
The pch and all of the project.
 
I'd say, worth it.
 
12s isn't that long
 
11:00 AM
It isn't, and AFAICT including or not Phoenix doesn't seem to influence that timing.
It's the first time I'm using a PCH (besides experimentation) and the time to generate it initially surprised me.
 
How long would it take to compile without using the PCH?
 
Chat's UI is the best I've seen anywhere. \m/
 
I has several deficiencies, though.
Like some crappy "by-design" Markdown behavior.
 
I'm reading the Phoenix getting started guide and it's interesting stuff
 
@MartinhoFernandes I haven't tried that for some time now and I'd need to tweak ccache for the timing to be accurate. I'm being lazy again.
 
11:09 AM
Well, if a no-PCH build takes 15s, and a PCH build takes 12s, you're not gaining much.
 
@MartinhoFernandes Well, using ccache with PCH doesn't feel like ccache without PCH (due to some restrictions), so I'm a bit wary for the time being.
For instance right now I modified a file, compiled, reverted to before the modification, recompiled, and the recompilation took 7s instead of being instant.
 
Ok, so this guy has a GUID but apparently a GUID has characters that are not usable, so he decides to base64-encode it. Turns out base64 has invalid characters for some filesystems (/), so he decides to manually replace those with safe characters like _. Turns out Azure blob storage or something doesn't allow _ in some stuff. So he now turns to SO to ask how to get him out of this pit he just dug.
 
haha
 
11:25 AM
lolcopter
 
it's roflcopter, you nubbin
 
And apparently, they base64-encoded it to have "short and friendly" names.
 
If they want short and friendly names, I'm too afraid to ask what they're using GUIDs for.
2
 
@DeadMG I want a lolcopter though
haha
@DeadMG wow you called me a clitoris LOL
 
Seems like some people try really hard to get a spot on TDWTF.
 
11:36 AM
@TonyTheTiger That's why those urban dictionaries are worthless. A nubbin is a poking-fun-at-you version of "noob".
 
@DeadMG hAhA
 
Because it's a fugly PHP code?
 
Which file ?
 
Vulnerable.log
 
Maybe they've decided that writing to files is not something a 'web' language should do, and removed that.
 
11:43 AM
"Azure blob" has a ring to it. Something I would order at a restaurant.
 
I'm going to the PHP room next time I have a doubt about C++.
 
I run that code in PHP CLI!
 
And?
Hi @Potatoswatter, long time no see.
 
(1) We need to see `save_log()` to know
(2) Because the array may be empty
(3) You're in the C++ room.
 
@MartinhoFernandes yo, 'sup?
 
11:47 AM
@kbok 1- I've updated the code
2- uh hum
3- I know :P
 
@Mobinga www.stackoverflow.com
 
lol @fopen
 
-_-
 
There could be a gazillion reasons to why it doesn't work. You have to debug your code.
 
And close your files. And get someone that knows PHP.
 
11:50 AM
Just not me.
 
lol
 
Not only is this the C++ room, this is the land of style Nazis, and that is NOT stylish code.
2
 
@MartinhoFernandes (And is willing to look at PHP code again)
 
I LOL'ed, though, so thanks.
 
I think you can find some willing here and here.
 
11:51 AM
Later
 
wow, I clicked a link and ended up in the PHP room, ugh :(
 
u mad bro?
 
seems like it
 
You're still there you know.
 
Wow, is this troll day or what. First Java, then PHP.
 
11:52 AM
Closing tabs doesn't leave the rooms.
 
@Mobinga Poor troll, 0/10.
 
@MartinhoFernandes now I've left
gosh
so we had a troll here huh
wow
 
Ok, I think I made this Cache class single-threadsafe.
 
I'd like to meet a real life troll someday
would be interesting
 
@TonyTheTiger You mean like in Harry Potter movies ?
 
11:54 AM
even a cubicle troll?
 
@kbok an internet troll
@Potatoswatter that's sounds sexual for some odd reason
and weird
 
"Cubicle trawl" could be a sexual practice
 
LOL
I am the sex troll in this room, I manage to mention it somehow :P
3
 
I'm not a troll.
 
you come into the C++ room asking a question about some PHP code
unless you explicitly wanted to direct it at a person, then I fail to see how that's not trolling
 
11:57 AM
that's trolling, if you ask me
 
Ooh, I have a problem in a language besides C++: ideone.com/V5MyE
 
you're on completely the wrong section of the site for asking a question, and you're not even in the right language room
 
@Mobinga And then leave saying that "C++ sucks"
 
TROLL ALERT!!!
 
it's pure lambda calculus… the build_binary_tuple function incorrectly reverses its second argument
 
11:58 AM
@Potatoswatter what is that ?
 
0
Q: Move to question from chat

DeadMGWe have a new feature where extended use of comments is moved to chat. I'd like to propose the reverse- chat room owners should be able to move (potentially multiple) lines of chat to a new question. The question would be "asked" by the person who placed those messages into chat. If the room owne...

what do you guys think?
 
man, that sounds like a plan!!!
 
@DeadMG genius!
 
that would really help get stuff done :)
 

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