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9:00 AM
@JanDvorak cross browser support IE < 9
 
add that to the answer
 
user1125394
question: if you have 3 really similar pages, is it bad to load them in dom, and display them or not with javascript (I'm refactoring 3 index.php with 2k lines each /client/index.php, /managers/index.php , /sales/index.php)
 
:answer
 
@Zirak any opinions on angularjs ?
 
@cx or not
 
9:07 AM
@jAndy Delete it.
 
@jAndy Knockout.js
 
@Neil elaborate :)
 
@jAndy I dislike angularjs :P
 
That's my opinion on Angular.js
 
@omegaiori Welcome to the JavaScript chat! Please review the room pseudo-rules. Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.
 
9:08 AM
I'm actually intersted in opinions about the architecture/model/priciple behind angular
 
user1125394
These contents clients, manager, sales would be loaded in dom according to user's rights, then just switched, with javascript
 
@jAndy Never used it
 
Really, dump Angular ... Knockout.js is by far cleaner.
 
personally it feels like.. "1 step ahead, 2 steps back" if I need to express myself
 
I mean, it is a smart library, but I don't really like libraries that think they know how I should model my program
 
9:09 AM
But @BenjaminGruenbaum will have a say in the matter
 
@OctavianDamiean does Knockout also use the same MVC concepts ?
 
@jAndy Technically none really use an MVC concept but a MV* concept.
 
user1125394
@OctavianDamiean hmm yes right, I shoudn't care, and just template nicely in php
 
However, to answer your question, yes it does.
@cx That was more like, or not because I don't understand what you're saying.
 
user1125394
nvm I don't either, but have to do it
 
9:11 AM
the view and controller for a web application are the same for the most part, assuming it's heavily client-based
 
does nobody share my concerns on code and logic mixins (HTML/JS) ? I mean, for years people were told to stay onobtrusive and seperate code concerns .. this feels like a huge leap back
 
@jAndy Wait, you've got that wrong.
 
@jAndy have been using angularjs for 6+ months now.. looks fine
 
It is used exactly for that ... to get separation of concerns.
 
yes but not code-wise
 
9:12 AM
How so?
 
@jAndy I do.
 
using angular, you always have to check at least two places, your "Markup" even if its stripped but it might use tons of special tags, attributes and dictates the logic
and your "code"
if you really want to know whats going on you have to look into the "controller code" or whatever its called there
 
o/
 
@jAndy Well, I can't comment on Angular. All I know is that I don't like it at all because it makes use of non-standard attributes.
@jAndy In web applications there is no controller. At least not really.
 
@OctavianDamiean let's say knockout then.
 
9:14 AM
but still, logic is shared in two places really
 
No.
Where?
 
what has always worked well for me is using objects purely for showing the page properly (not getting too bogged down in structure)
 
user1125394
what are the 2 places?
 
markup <> js
 
To make sure you get that, I'm talking about Knockout.js because that's what I know best.
 
9:15 AM
Then I can modify the pieces plugged in to that object any way that I want without worrying about the interface getting screwed up
 
@FlorianMargaine hey man, does "proche" means "next" or "next to you" ?
 
neither
 
how do you say "next to you" in one word? :D
 
you don't
 
@jAndy It might be an Angular.js problem I don't know. Checkout Knockout.js and come back. :)
 
9:16 AM
@badbetonbreakbutbedbackbone adjacent
 
"à côté de"
 
@Neil i need french :P
 
@badbetonbreakbutbedbackbone I know, I was being difficult :P
 
@FlorianMargaine aha... great so you use more than 1 word in french right?
@Neil eheh ;)
 
user1125394
àèêéù french shit
 
9:17 AM
@badbetonbreakbutbedbackbone guess
 
lol why guess? you french :P
 
parce que je t'ai déjà répondu...
 
@cx why shit? :D it's not so bad
 
    I mean code blocks like this

        <p>
            <a ng-click="triggerDigest()">Trigger Digest</a>
        </p>

or this

         <li ng-repeat="friend in friends | filter: random">

            {{ friend.name }}

        </li>
 
user1125394
@badbetonbreakbutbedbackbone complicate
 
9:18 AM
you get an idea whats going on looking on the markup/html/"view"
 
@FlorianMargaine lol that sounds like italian slang really :D the last sentece you put i mean :D
 
@FlorianMargaine Alright, now that's without Google Translate! Did that mean, because I've already answered you?
 
but there are still js methods referenced and you have no clue what those are really doing
 
@OctavianDamiean yep
 
Man, I'm so bauce.
@jAndy Checkout Knockout.js, really.
 
9:20 AM
Maybe "proche" is not used alone
 
hi friends
 
@Zirak it can be
 
any one here with titanium appcelerator experience?
 
regardless what lib one is using, as long as he purely uses the markup "logic" for placedholders of data, I'm totally fine with it
 
life sucks
 
9:21 AM
but as soon as "logic" is referenced, I have a very bad feeling about it
 
@FlorianMargaine Then it does mean "nearby" in one word?
 
@FlorianMargaine auprés it seems ok to me what about ?
 
Or is it a different meaning?
 
@Zirak proche can mean lot of things. "Il est proche" -> "He's close" (in both senses)
 
@jAndy You know my answer. :D
 
9:22 AM
yaya :P
 
nearby is also "proche"
 
Stop wasting your own time with Angular.
 
so which to use dude :D ?
i feel good with auprés what about?
 
anyways, knockup violates the same principles of unobtrusivness imo
<tbody data-bind="foreach: seats">
    <tr>
        <td><input data-bind="value: name" /></td>
        <td><select data-bind="options: $root.availableMeals, value: meal, optionsText: 'mealName'"></select></td>
        <td data-bind="text: meal().price"></td>
    </tr>
</tbody>
what is seats doing ?
 
@Zirak OH HAI
 
9:24 AM
or meal()
 
@jAndy That's obviously an array ...
 
What'cha boys arguing about?
 
@FlorianMargaine :P i go for "auprés" ok ? :P
 
Nothing as long as he doesn't actually care to learn any of the frameworks.
 
@jAndy Of course you know what they are doing, Angular's scoping is really nice..
@Neil If you model your program after the library and not the other way around it's not a library it's a framework
 
9:26 AM
by just looking on the markup (or "view" as the new hipster word), you don't really know whats going on
best case scenario, you get a good idea about it
 
@FlorianMargaine in italy we say vicino
 
No, you really know what's going on pretty well
 
Not to mention that a good IDE will let you 'jump to definition' when you hover over an app and infer context.
Angular has a clever notion of scoping.
 
I don't like Angular.
It's bad.
 
9:27 AM
@jAndy i love your t-shirt, italian design?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum scroll up, I pasted some example in angular, the snippet with "triggerDigest" and "filter"
 
That's not a real snippet.
 
how would you have a clue about what the "code behind" or however you want to call it does
 
3
Q: Why is the first four bytes of Java class file format is CAFEBABE?

zengrWhy is the first four bytes of Java class file format is CAFEBABE? Who named it? Your views/guesses? Source: IBM Java Programing Dynamics

 
@jAndy because you wrote it.
 
9:28 AM
you reference "code blocks" all the time in markup synopsis don't you
 
The design principles behind are:
- HTML if it was designed for web apps.
- Inversion of Control through service location to create easily tested code
- Easily shared code - view behaviors through directives, code through models.
 
:D
 
what is faster to get number from string with followiing structure 12|some_data, 2|some_data
regex or split?
 
@jAndy Because what you posted aren't real snippets, it's more like:
    <div ng-controller="FriendsController">
         <li ng-repeat="friend in friends | filter: random">

            {{ friend.name }}

        </li>
    </div>
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum No, it's a library that serves as a framework
 
9:29 AM
@badbetonbreakbutbedbackbone thanks dude :p I actually don't know what kind of design it is, its generally nice
 
@Neil It's a framework, that's the definition of a framework.
 
Technically I wouldn't be wrong to call it a library since it is an included script library
 
@jAndy ;) you look fashionated programmer dude ;)
nice
 
no one know?
 
@Kuraiinazuma Split but it really doesn't matter just write what's clearer
 
9:30 AM
thanks
 
No such thing as adding a js framework to a web page, it's still technically a library
You use a framework, but you include a library
 
@Neil Right, now go along, read Fowler, come back, tell me I was right.
 
@OctavianDamiean can i suggest you to change avatar? :P seriously it seems you are sucking your thumb in that avatar :P
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum as I mentioned, as long one is using angular/knockout/whatever as pure "data template" and references data-types, its totally fine, but I see tons of snippets where actually code is references direct or indirect
self written ng- stuff for instance
 
@badbetonbreakbutbedbackbone Yea, no. I'm not taking style advice from a burger.
 
9:32 AM
Self written ng-stuff can be very useful - it's called directives and it encapsulates view behavior. It can encourage very semantic and declarative code
 
@OctavianDamiean lol ok just my 2 cents :P
 
@Darkyen I'll use that sometime. "You're a real 3405691582."
 
Also, Angular is the new jQuery, it's very easy to pick up so you get a lot of horrible code by people that have no idea who they're doing.
 
I just have a problem at this point, that I'm forced to always care about two spots, which feels like a step back from unobtrusivness again
I guess there is no way around but to actually dig in to one of those guys
(please don't misinterpret, no gay meanings :p)
 
@jAndy Well, but without it, you have the problem of spaghetti-code.
Ain't awesome either.
 
9:33 AM
@jAndy It feels that way until you actually code Angular. In fact, it's a lot easier to know what the list or button do by looking at them than by selecting them or adding listeners not on them directly.
You do care about two spots, your presentation logic and your model logic (business logic). As you should.
 
another point which disturbed me is that, at least angular because I laid my eyes on it, ridiculously often inserts and removes node and touches the DOM in general
it doesn't feel very nice to lets say, mobile devices
 
MorNING fOLKS!
 
@jAndy You shouldn't touch the DOM in the first place with Angular outside of directives.
 
jQuery hide function is hiding the elements but still the space is left in its place...
I saw a similar question here-
 
@udaysagar Didn't rlemon perma-mute you?
!!/mute
 
9:36 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Nobody is muted
 
1
Q: JQuery hide does not remove the space of the object?

Satch3000I am using some jquey code where I hide a list item... $("ul.items").each(function() { $("li:gt(4)", this).hide(); My problem is that .hide seems to hide the element but the space for it is still allocated. Is there a way to remove this space... like display:none on css does? UPDATE: .h...

 
Ah, nevermind
 
Why shuold i be muted?
 
Jun 12 at 14:28, by rlemon
!!/mute udaysagar 9999999999999
 
!!mute udaysagar 9999999999999
I'm sure he had his reasons.
 
9:38 AM
@OctavianDamiean Muted user 2050594 for 9999999999999m
 
Wait, maybe he was unmuted
 
Until proven so, he's muted.
It might have been the bot forgetting the muted list.
 
Yea, he's not been unmuted by anyone of us.
 
@jAndy Give it a try, for like one project use Angular. Personally, I use Angular but I also use a bunch of other stuff - I'm far from an Angular 'fanboy' and I think they have a bunch of design mistakes. However, I still think it's a great framework.
 
9:41 AM
That's...odd
 
@Zirak a what
 
Honestly I'd probably unmute him, perma-mutes seem cruel to me. I have no intention to go above @rlemon 's decision here though - he has every right.
A real problem like a user being really abusive should be handled by mods anyway.
 
@Darkyen What was I writing a reply to?
Now, what does that hex mean in decimal?
 
interesting... yeah got that after u said :3
sorry i am kind of slow man ... after oracles docs
my teacher teaches better then oracle docs :P
 
The Oracle docs are actually really good.
I have to say, one of the nicer things about Java is that all the built ins have pretty good documentation
We're getting there though :) MDN is getting better by the day
 
9:51 AM
It'd be great if they allowed anonymous editing.
 
Is this question worthy of Stack Overflow? stackoverflow.com/q/17339949
I would vote to close it as "Non-constructive", but that option is gone.
 
Yeah, CV'd as well. It's not a real question.
 
@RobW That option is gone.
 
"primarily opinion based" x4
 
Which is basically what you already said. :D
 
9:53 AM
huh. I just noticed how extremely fast SO is.
It's...quite impressive
 
@RobW One way to express that usually is a cv tag.
It's not that it's opinion based as much as it's constraint based.
"Lowest"
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yes, I am aware of that, but I was not sure which option to pick in the new close vote system
 
We'll have to rename it to hv-pls
 
@RobW I meant the tag :) like " QUESTION" , this usually indicates 'please check out that question, and if you feel like it should be closed - close vote it'
 
Ugh.. visual studio has the crappiest intellisense of any development environment
If I'm writing a method called MyClass::Method(), can you not realize that perhaps I'm creating a new method, intellisense? HUH?!!
 
10:06 AM
@Neil Get ReSharper - that fixes it. Also use the right shortcuts. Code complete and code suggest are two different shortcuts :)
 
I think the biggest advantage to using a computer is that there is no law saying that you can't slap them around every now and again when they misbehave
 
@Neil NO
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum If that's true, you are a godsend. Looking into it right now..
 
@Neil Learn how your IDE works ^_^
(I could just tell you the shortcuts :P)
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I prefer to wallow in self-pity
 
10:10 AM
Ah ok :)
 
It doesn't seem to support C++ though
 
Although, for C++ probably just use VIM
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum You're giving him a whole-tomato!?
 
@Zirak No, that would be extremely offensive.
 
This project is too big to edit with just vim
It's all legacy code
 
10:12 AM
We are back to fruits now?
 
@OctavianDamiean Did you just completely miss a Community reference?
 
@Zirak Is it from a newer episode?
Oh no it's not.
huh.
 
@ManishAgrawal Welcome to the JavaScript chat! Please review the room pseudo-rules. Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.
 
cool, I found a use-case for "╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", checking how the db handles weird unicode stuff.
 
10:28 AM
0
Q: Character movement on a 2D tile map

Chris MorrisI'm working at making a HTML5 game. Top down, closest thing I can equate it to is the gameboy zeldas, but open world and no rooms. What I have so far is a procedurally generated map in a multi dimensional array. And a starting position on the map. Along with this I have an array of movable and n...

 
10:41 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum You are a saint and a scholar
 
@Neil I'm glad it worked out for you :)
 
Finally an intellisense that actually saves information in memory
 
@Neil I'd suggest ReSharper but it costs twice as much :)
(Also, it's poor with C++, if at all)
 
I didn't even see it mentioned
 
Yeah, it's not designed for C++
 
10:44 AM
If it supports C++, then it can't be that wonderful
 
Anyway, I'm glad it worked out for you :)
 
C++ is, afterall, the mammoth of programming language complexity afterall
 
I'd still probably use vim for C++, just because that's what I used before for C++ and it worked out nicely.
 
Have you ever used it? It is a refreshing change from the norm
I guess I assumed that was normal after all this time
 
VS without plugins isn't a very potent editor
 
10:45 AM
VS is a memory hog and attempts to do everything anyway
I'm using VS 2010, so I figured it shouldn't be so outdated for what concerns intellisense
 
I usually work with 16GB of memory, I don't care that it hogs memory, it's nowhere nearly as much as Chrome anyway.
(Also, VS2010 is pretty old now :P)
 
In this company, VS2010 is the freakin' enterprise
 
We still code in RPG, which is a coding language in which the lines are saved in a database
 
I want 16GB of memory and a SSD.
 
10:48 AM
I'd want a Turing machine so I could exploit the infinite memory
 
@OctavianDamiean So get em, they're both very beneficial
Also, if you get those you can actually use windows which is superior operating system and not use inferior ones that are less resource intensive and thus work on shitty PCs
...*waits calmly*...
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yea, I know but my system is quite old ... I'd have to uprade the entire system if I want to really make use of the additional memory.
 
jsfiddle.net/v4Fu4/15 Does anybody know why the middle "Don't like" link don't work?
 
@OctavianDamiean Maybe when you do you'll be able to use a real OS :)
 
@OctavianDamiean Trade you those for a Gazelle?
 
10:50 AM
*waits calmly*
 
@Zirak Mhmmm, not sure about that.
Do you want to eat the Gazelle?
 
There's a common expression: "Don't feed the trolls". I'd like to take it a step forward: "Don't feel the trolls."
 
is it possible to cut photos on the fly with js?
 
Hah, the timing is priceless!
 
!!mute badbetonbreakbutbedbackbone 9999999
 
10:51 AM
will it be too slow for large amount of photos?
 
@OctavianDamiean why?
 
@OctavianDamiean Muted user 895174 for 9999999m
 
@badbetonbreakbutbedbackbone Sure it is
!!/unmute 895174
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Could not process input. Error: infoFromName is not defined on line 5277
 
@Zirak ^ fix your thing
 
10:52 AM
Because he thinks we're his personal Google interface.
 
@OctavianDamiean He wasn't offensive, if you're not interested in his question just ignore it..
!!/unmute 895174
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Could not process input. Error: infoFromName is not defined on line 5277
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum It's not about being offensive.
 
@badbetonbreakbutbedbackbone stop starring my messages....
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum erm, crap.
 
10:53 AM
room mode changed to Public: anyone may enter and talk
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum If it would have been offensive I would have flagged it as such ...
It's about being a general tit.
 
@OctavianDamiean Which would lead to nothing at all since flagging is broken which is why we have muting
 
@OctavianDamiean no comment :/
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Muting is not a replacement for flagging ... it is there to get rid of disturbing users.
 
@OctavianDamiean I don't think we should give users the finger because we dislike them.. he was just asking a question - not a very clever one, but he wasn't trying to be a jerk or anything
@OctavianDamiean That's what flagging was intended for..
Only flagging is totally broken
 
10:54 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum You should quit being so fucking friendly ...
@BenjaminGruenbaum No.
It was not.
It was intended to flag offensive users or spammers.
That's all.
 
@OctavianDamiean No, not being assholes is what separates us from the c++ room.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum thanks for understanding
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum They are a completely different level of assholes.
 
@OctavianDamiean You would never see this sort of thing in the PHP room or the Rebol room.
 
What sort of thing?
 
10:56 AM
Doesn't the php room just generally ignore people, and the Rebol room doesn't have that much traffic to cause these problems?
 
Also, I don't care for the PHP nor the Rebol room the slightest.
I care about this room.
 
Ok, so let's try to be a little more friendly in this room
 
@OctavianDamiean you one of my preferred of the chat you know (i'm not trolling :/ ) but this time you pissed of really also if it wasn't me related you shouldn't ban for no.reasons at all please
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum A little more friendly? What do you want to give him a flower next time he just joins to ask something he should have asked Google?
We already touch trolls and help vampires with velvet gloves ...
 
@OctavianDamiean and i do not think anyone as muy personla Google, i was trying go on asking if it's a best practice to cut photos on the fly in js
 
10:58 AM
@OctavianDamiean Had I asked that question I bet you wouldn't have said a thing. Heck, if a random user came here and asked that he would have gotten a fair answer. Researching google for image resizing in JS doesn't yield any good results and this rooms contains people who know how to do it.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I would have asked you why you didn't just google it, I even did so once.
 
being constructive why not introducing a google it command in the chat?
if you boried about ... could be great
 
!!/tell badbetonbreakbutbedbackbone help google
 
@badbetonbreakbutbedbackbone google: Search Google. /google query
 
@OctavianDamiean That's besides the point, telling him to use Google would have been preferable to muting him by a ton. However, allow me to entertain you , I'm on google right now searching for 'resizing an image with JavaScript'
 
10:59 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Oh, like we've never done that ...
 

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