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2:00 PM
@Raynos i done it
 
@IvoWetzel hit numlock
 
sory
@Ivo
 
@Raynos uh yeah, I'd hit it, but I guess it was already turned on >_>
 
Thanks Every one for helping me
 
opera, what's so hard about recognizing a mouseup event -.-
 
2:03 PM
@Raynos @IvoWetzel @NickCraver Can u give me some links on bubble tooltip for input controls
 
google for qtip, simpleTip, etc
 
@IvoWetzel: events aren't really Opera's strong point.
 
@NiteshKatare Can you define more clearly what you're looking for
 
@AndyE I know... I once did some kind of hacking game which emulated a command line.... that was fun...
 
@YiJiang i have a requirment to show the bubble tool tip for Textbox
Ex;
 
2:06 PM
Also dragonfly still... well let me put it this way: It sucks.
 
if there is two textbox on page called user name and password den when the user clicks on user name textbox i have to show a pop up next to the user name textbox and display the message that please enter your user name and the same for password
 
@IvoWetzel Yeah... It's incredibly slow, for no apparent reason
 
Although both the web inspector and firebug slow down the script, only Dragonfly manages to slow it down by more than 40%
 
@NiteshKatare Depending on how long the form is you might want to consider looking at the jQuery validation plugin, else @NickCraver's suggestions would work fine
 
@NiteshKatare title attribute?
 
2:09 PM
No tool tip like showing the help
 
whoa
Chrome dev got a network panel
 
@Raynos Means ven the textbox gotfocus a div has to get pop up next to the textbox and have to dispay the tooltip with some help
 
@NickCraver still waiting for someone to allow for capturing web socket traffic though
right now it only tracks the intial http upgrade request
 
@NiteshKatare good luck
 
I'm looking forward to seeing (working)HWA in chrome
 
2:15 PM
HWA ?
 
hardware acceleration
 
as in webgl ?
 
canvas2d and layout too
They have canvas2d implemented, but the compositing is still done in software
which pretty much means: GPU thread takes one core just because of context switching
last time I checked compositing acceleration + canvas acceleration just resulted in an empty window :/
Not to say that canvas speed in chrome is even without HWA lightyears ahead of it's competition
That reminds me, I have to look up that spec one day in order to find out if there's actually an restriction which keeps people from implementing fast clearing code
it's a joke that clearing the damn thing alone takes up 30% CPU
 
:(
thats why you double buffer it.
and just render over the top
 
uh still have to clear the thing at one point
already using 2 canvas(canvases? canvi?) on top of each other, one for more static stuff in the background and one for moving stuff, update code's a mess :/
 
2:27 PM
Is that how you do things like background scrolling at slower speeds?
@IvoWetzel use a canvas api wrapper :D
 
Should I be honored? Or scared if some random site grants one of my games the "Famous Software Award"? download.famouswhy.com/nodegame_shooter
 
@IvoWetzel whats game dev with node like?
 
@Raynos Fun. Fast.
 
@IvoWetzel is the javascript any kind of bottle neck
@IvoWetzel was going to test multiplayer shooters this weekend to see what responsiveness is like
 
@Raynos No. Friggin Canvas is the bottle neck...
@Raynos Responsiveness only depends on the model you use, there are good reads out there about unreals and quakes models, of course it needs some work
Nice thing with node is of course that you can reuse code
And you don't have to context switch all the time
Add in live debugging of node with chrome and there you go
And node is just extremely fast :)
Especially when it comes to low level stuff like math and looping
 
2:34 PM
@IvoWetzel thats good :) Have you used the render engine by any chance?
 
V8 is just great in those areas
@Raynos what do you mean by render engine?
 
@IvoWetzel someone wrote a asteroids clone for it. It might be you
 
Tom
@IvoWetzel when I click start playing it just restarts
 
Oh, yeah running a different game server at the same port right now
Gonna start the shooter one
It's running now, lag might be an issues there's no client side prediction in the game
 
2:39 PM
@IvoWetzel I dont think its you. but take a look at javascript "the render engine"
 
@Raynos no that's not me
ok already fail, their asteroids demo uses 51% of cpu without drawing anything fancy
another demo is broken in chromium
 
@IvoWetzel the broken demo might be fixed in chrome lower down the page.
@IvoWetzel are there any good wrappers for the canvas?
 
@Raynos Wrappers, that depends, in most cases I do my own small wrapping functions for setting color, drawing a circle or a polygon, since canvas is soooo slow, using generalized stuff will give bad performance in most cases, at least that's my experience
 
@IvoWetzel balls.
 
4
Q: Using jQuery to replace textbox with <textarea> after certain character length

jakeI'm using the simple code below to replace a textbox (<input type=text />) with a <textarea> element after the user types in a certain number of characters. In the example below, this takes place after the 10th character. The code works, except that the contents of the <textarea&g...

^ onkeyup is a terrible way to detect input! gah!
 
Tom
2:45 PM
@IvoWetzel that demo now completely freezes my browser, chrome
 
@Tom Huh? Which version? I hadn't any problems here with chrome, but then again I'm always using the latest dev version
 
@IvoWetzel if it doesnt work in chrome < 9 then its not your problem :)
 
Tom
7.0.5 on ubuntu 10.10 @IvoWetzel
 
Had no problems here with 8+ on Ubuntu
 
Tom
@IvoWetzel I don't use dev versions
@IvoWetzel it's not loading in firefox either
Oh not it is, with server offline message
 
2:49 PM
Uses WebSockets, but should fall back to flash in that cases... although that flash is buggy and laggy :/
The whole gaming thing is still pretty much just starting with the next browser releases
 
@IvoWetzel I would just detect if websocket & if canvas and if neither then replace the game with a link to chrome 9
 
@IvoWetzel you let on you have experience with this. So now you will bare the brunt of tonights questions
 
Tom
@IvoWetzel actually I agree, because at the moment you're just letting their browser crash or give invalid status messages
 
Still most tech people are like "Doesn't show up, I don't care"
 
2:56 PM
@IvoWetzel what do you mean "doesnt show up"
 
IE users, no canvas... many people no WebSockets
 
@IvoWetzel just write a message saying "go away"
 
they expect it to just run
:D
 
@IvoWetzel replace the game with "go away"
Oh dear god IE debugging time
 
Doesn't even run in IE9 anyways, at least the last time I'd checked
object tags were broken
no exposure of flash objects methods = fail
 
2:58 PM
What is this <script for="GridControl" event="onresize"> ie specific nonsense do?
@IvoWetzel do not support anything but safari 4.x opera 10.6 chrome 7+ & ff4
 
opera 11, has websockets
@Raynos searching google for that stuff, I end up with ActiveX stuff...
 
@IvoWetzel msdn claims its part of dom level 2
 
@Raynos MS also claims that they've got the best and most secure browser on earth :P
Is that supposed to only executed when "GridControl" get's resized?
 
probably
 
Looks like some ancestor of real events...
 
3:06 PM
@IvoWetzel On Vista and above, it's certainly not as bad as say... Safari... (sigh)
 
@YiJiang So should we be happy that WMP doesn't run under MacOS then?
iTunes was the slowest software I've ever used on any PC
 
@IvoWetzel It'll run as well as iTunes runs on Windows, I'm telling ya!
 
@YiJiang Well at least WMP isn't written in deprecated frameworks is it? :D
Anyways for Safari testing I normally just use Chrome
You only need to test 2 Browsers: Chrome and Firefox
Opera... nobody uses that anyway, and you already know that it's broken in IE
 
poor opera :(
 
Actually I'm always testing in Opera :)
 
3:11 PM
What about konqueror >:(
I want your game to work in konqueror
 
<- Gnome(!)
 
@Raynos What? That browser!?
@IvoWetzel Hee...
 
@YiJiang whats wrong with kk ?
 
KDE is like.... Windows.... uh
I switched around a year ago from Win to Ubuntu, I didn't regret it, nor will I ever do.
 
I switched to macos, didn't regret that either
 
3:14 PM
@IvoWetzel CS and a bunch of other stuff still keeps me half tied to WIndows
 
but I know a lot of folks which also likes ubuntu pretty much
 
@AndyE oO really?
 
@YiJiang Each time I need to do something under Windows, I scream... especially when I'm running on battery and that damn thing decides to install 40 updates on shutdown -.-
and now that Canonical got that stupid console-kit-daemon fixed in 10.xx my box is running more stable than ever before
 
anyways, I was forced to work like a lot on win7 last couple of weeks. I can't blame that os, actually I almost like it
 
I don't know what hold me that long on windows...
oh wait... WoW
 
3:18 PM
but they copied quite a lot of stuff .. from osx :p
 
Windows, I don't know I would miss tons of stuff there, like... a Terminal
and easy compilation of *nixy stuff
cygwin.. shudders
 
I guess the name 'Windows' implies not to use a Terminal
 
:D
Well I always thought it would imply "If it doesn't work, throw it out of the Window"
like in it "windows" the act of "windowing" something
 
that would have crashed a lot of windows the last years
but again, win7 looks more reasonable to me
 
The crashed Windows, crashed my Windows
@jAndy Unless it's Win7 Starter...
 
3:22 PM
that's btw the reason I like snowleopard (or any osx) so much. you don't need to do much on the terminal, but if you choose to.. well just do it, fine
but that argument is also good for even KDE I guess
 
Oh and one thing I'd miss on Windows, multiple workspaces
Having them + a mouse with a sideways scrollwheel!
<3
 
but then again.. a terminal is not always fun. for instance, pushing git repositorys just via terminal is like walking on thin ice.. one step away from going crrazzyyyyyy
 
I normally use COLA for that one or gitg for checking the things out
 
I really need to get one of those
 
my top bar is filled with like 8 shortcuts for starting repos in COLA
 
3:26 PM
@rchern yup :-p
 
That reminds me of git under windows...
 
morning everyone
 
it's about 6.30 pm here
 
lol - howdy everyone I should say instead
 
4:30pm
 
3:29 PM
howdy, sup :p
 
just say "moin"
 
ive got a design pattern question
 
@IvoWetzel: indeed
 
im using a closure to define a set of functions as part of a common library
and one of the methods has an ajax request child
actually let me get a code snippet to help describe my questin could save a ton of confusion
 
@brianbrinley: depending on how much code that is, consider on posting it on SO instead
 
3:31 PM
"A piece code says more than a thousand words."
 
but then again, I hate question which I open and my screen is full of (at best bad or unformatted) source code.. that's an instant close in most cases :p
 
@jAndy Formatting is for newbs, real programmers do it on a #f0f0f0 background with #ffffff text, no indentation as well as 80 columns :P
 
@IvoWetzel:yes, that's why I adapted the google closure compiler theme to my style
 
yeah that was my intention jAndy
 
Worst things ever: White text on a black background(gotta love DevShow for flaming that all the time) and Black text on a white background
 
3:35 PM
I know its a simple answer philosophical answer im ust not getting it now
 
gedit cobalt theme forever <3
 
naaahh.. codA colorinverted theme is GROSS
anyway, codA is just <3
 
codA is so lovely, I'd go and create lots of little codA's with it :p
@IvoWetzel: is that a snippet from your code?
 
@jAndy yeah horrible simple login check for a game server :P
 
3:39 PM
@IvoWetzel: instanceof Array does not work frame or iframe wide :p
 
Node.js
 
oh well
 
I'd choose that piece because it did show most of the colors
 
@jAndy: neither do any of the library-based solutions, not in a cross-browser manner, anyway. whattheheadsaid.com/2010/10/…
 
@AndyE: you're saying that Object.prototype.toString.call(obj) does not work either ?
 
3:41 PM
top = { layer: { data: 4 } };
alert( top["layer.data"] === 4 );
Is there any way I can make that work?
 
eval?.... runs
 
@Raynos: why not calling top.layer.data ?
 
dataChanged(string, value) {
     top[string] = value;
}
@IvoWetzel thanks ill use eval
 
AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH WHAT HAVE I DONE!
 
@Raynos for the love of all things good DON'T DO THAT
 
3:44 PM
@IvoWetzel its valid use of eval
Server tells client this thing in your nested tree changed, this is the new value. Change your internal structure and handle appropiate valueChanged event
 
There's no valid use of eval. Period. Even JSON before native JSON was evil. Anyways gonna hide from Crockford from now on for making someone use eval...
 
I think its a good way to deal with it. The client has internal state stored in a nested tree. The server tells the client its state changed merely by passing in "top.layer1.layer2.layer3.data.complexStorage.temp" changed to "newValue"
 
btw..
 
Unless you really have that much data to keep track of that you need to segment it like that, I think you really need to rethink how your data is structured. "top.layer1......temp" ... hmmmm
 
@drachenstern top.ui, top.physicsState, top.worldState, top.physicsState.world.treeElement.animation4 =true; etc.
 
3:48 PM
I suppose ... doesn't seem very balanced, if it's nested that deep, but then again, I have no idea what the data looks like
 
well, there are valid cases for eval()
 
@jAndy and this is not one of them
 
I didn't say that
 
31
Q: Why is using Javascript eval function a bad idea?

Brian SinghThe eval function is a powerful and easy way to dynamically generate code so what are the caveats?

 
@jAndy not in IE7 and lower (not sure about IE 8)
 
3:49 PM
@jAndy I'm sure you know what this thread says before you open it, but does @Raynos
 
@AndyE Interesting. \o/ regardless though I guess.
 
@jAndy a bit too low on contrast for my taste, but still looks very pleasent
 
abusing eval is bad. But I think its elegant for the server to pass in a string telling the client what part of its complex state changed by method of namespace nesting rather then that way the data name and data location are the same thing
ugh -.- I can just take the input and split it by "." and then use a nested top[1][2][3][4]
 
@IvoWetzel: well I'm slaved in a dark dark room here in my company. No sunshine, not light at all. In that context the contrast is bright like sun.
2
 
I stand corrected.
 
3:52 PM
And yet again! Good prevails over eval()! Tune in next week for the next episode of...
 
@IvoWetzel yay we got to him in time :D
 
But there are valid uses!
 
@IvoWetzel Erm... CrockfordMan!
 
@YiJiang And EichBoy!
dadadadadadadadadadadadadada Crockfordmaaaaaaannnnnnnnnn
 
Crocky
:p
 
3:56 PM
@Raynos we're not saying there aren't valid uses.
don't misunderstand
it's just that if you think you've got a valid usecase for Eval, then you should do three things: try every other way. ask a lot of other knowledgeable people about the usecase. make sure you've tried every other way.
then, after those three, then, and only then, you should use eval.
it's just not safe
 
I really love that vocaloid synthesizer only thing missing for the next release is the 3D hologram: youtube.com/watch?v=YmSoLpzhqUk&feature=related
 
@Raynos, have you thought about writing a function to fetch descendant properties for you?
// e.g.

function getDescendantProperty(obj, props) {
    var arr = props.split(".");
    while (obj = obj[arr.shift()]) { }
    return obj;
}
 
doh.. is it possible to force a native scrollbar to be always enabled? even if there isn't enough content to actually scroll through
overflow-y: scroll is set obviously, but the scrollers gets disabled on too less content
 
@jAndy Erm... height: 101%?
 
@YiJiang that's the only one I know of
but it does force the document height to actually be 101% if applied to the document. Not sure about scrollable divs and fluid layouts
 
4:05 PM
@AndyE I thought of something like that but your solution is slightly neater then mine
Why does my table have border spacing in ie7 but not in ff2
Lieing piece of rage.
 
@YiJiang: doesn't work for a div
 
@jAndy Absolute position it in a relative positioned parent
 
hm sounds like trouble for my markup here
 
@Raynos welcome to the club. Also, what solution? on the scroll?
 
but thanks I'll try to set that up
 
4:07 PM
@jAndy it should work in a div
 
@drachenstern Percentage height doesn't I think... erm...
 
@YiJiang might have to wrap them with a set height tho
 
I hate ie. It tells me it inherits something in the style tracker -.- but it didnt and I needed to add it manually.
 
@jAndy are you forcing a min-height on your scrollable area? max-height?
 
"A script is causing ie to become unresponsive" How do I deal with this message? Optimise the code? or is there any way to make the message ignored. ie8 is just too slow for my functionality :\
 
4:10 PM
@drachenstern: neither nor
 
@jAndy can you? Might help with the situation? ... lets' see the jfiddle
 
@drachenstern: it's positioned absolute within few other absolute div's. anchored my left:0 top:anythingpx
 
@YiJiang see, that's what I was thinking, forced height, with a 101% inside
take out the height and see
oooh, has to be a height, not a min-height max-height
 
 
1 hour later…
5:18 PM
BREAKING NEWS!!! Firefox 4.0 beta 7 implements the strict mode of ECMAScript :D
2
 
@Å imeVidas <3
Time to drop everything im doing and download it
Can anyone confirm hes not lieing?
 
@Raynos I ran this page kangax.github.com/es5-compat-table in beta 7 and the last row says "Yes". Clicking on the "Strict mode" link on the left reveals that all tests except one return "Yes". The one that fails is eval('var x'); x; is a Reference Error.
 
@Raynos you could confirm it if you downloaded it
 
@drachenstern cant download ff4 at work
 
then it's a moot point
 
5:32 PM
I'm trying to google some sources here, but it seems that the news hasn't spread yet :)
 
would the changenotes not say so on the release?
is there an initial bugreport on it that you could reference?
 
@drachenstern The changelist is down for some reason: bugzilla.mozilla.org/…
 
that doesn't sound good, could be because they're in the midst of pushing a new beta tho...
 
5:47 PM
@drachenstern The release notes ( mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/4.0b7/releasenotes ) mention that beta 7 uses JaegerMonkey - a new JavaScript engine... so I guess, strict mode support came with this new engine.
 
 
2 hours later…
Tek
8:16 PM
@NickCraver are you there? I could use your help for a small question regarding TinyMCE
 
shoot
bleaching my eyes at this at the moment: stackoverflow.com/questions/4158789/…
 
hehehe, small question, tinymce
 
Tek
lol
I try
All right well, I'm using $('#textarea').focus(function(){$(this).tinymce()});
how do I get the cursor to focus tinymce?
the textarea is converted to tinymce on focus, but it doesn't actually have a cursor inside tinymce
you have to click the text area, then tinymce, it's kind of annoying
 
pretty sure there's a mceFocus
 
Tek
oh?
 
8:20 PM
tinyMCE.execCommand('mceFocus',false,'myeditor');
whatever the ID is on the end there
 
Tek
lets see
tinymce().execommand() eh?
let me give it a try
I'm using jquery for tinymce, should I put it at the end of like so?: $(#textarea).tinymce.execommand()
 
tinyMCE should still be there
it's a global object
sorry, 19 windows open, working on some SQL views...@ me to get my attention
 
@NickCraver how many monitors are you doing that on?
 
2x30" at the moment, adding one after we move
 
nice, much jealousy. I have but a single 19 inch at work :(
 
8:32 PM
oh I work from home
advice: if you're a contractor, trick out your setup at home while it's tax deductable
 
ahah, I don't think i'm quite pro enough to be a contractor yet. I have a 22inch and an old 19 inch CRT at home...
 
I've got a single 23" 2048 x 1152 WS at home.
@NickCraver This is stuff I may have to think about soon, oy!
3x19" squares at work.
 
all about pixels for me here, when I bought these it was the only option for 2560x1600
I think there are some 24 or 27" with that res now
 
The 23" was pretty much best-bang-at-a-not-ridiculous price buy.
 
I'm torn between getting a new monitor (like a zr24w) or getting a projector for funs
 
8:39 PM
@rchern oh you need WS at work too!
 
Yeah, we've been saying this for a bit.
 
@david better monitor
 
Ok, well maybe a couple weeks, but I kinda feel like having WS+reg would be weird.
 
It is at first
but I like it
I just wish I had about a million more pixels to my left :\
ok, 1.5million
ok 2million :p
 
8:44 PM
how much $$?
 
jesus
LOTS of $$
 
has envy
 
Did I miss the price on the page?
 
i got em just under 1k to my door when on sale
 
hit customize
 
8:45 PM
nah i looked it up on a local price place cos i'm in nz
 
wow, not bad @NickCraver
<snips> Market Value1 $1,499.0
 
Dang.
I got mine for $150 at the store down the street. Maybe $175.
 
i mean yeah they're up there...but working from home I spend 50-70+ hours a week in front of them
 
o_O converting from USD to NZD on that price tells me our Dell stores overcharge by $1000
 
use them more than my bed heh
 
8:46 PM
@david S&H?
@NickCraver so sad
 
0
Q: i know there's a limit to the number of style sheets a webpage can have, but what about attached javascript files?

changokunIE has a limit of 31 style sheets (there are ways around that) but is there a limit to how many javascript files i can include? if i go above it, what happens? i've got a page now with 40+ included js files.

this has potential
 
@drachenstern Nah i'm pretty sure they're just ripping us off :p
 
@NickCraver hopefully they are talking about a dev environment ;)
 
@ElijahManor I'm praying that's the case
 
@NickCraver Nice, I have three U2211Hs :)
 
8:50 PM
When we get time I'll post an updated version of chirpy.codeplex.com
put a lot of enhancements in over the last few days, addin for VS 2010 that on save combines/minifies whatever...T4, LESS, CSS, JavaScript, etc
 
@TimStone hahaha, wow. I saw the 55 first and thought it was a 55" monitor.
 
notice I'm not sharing a link to my PoS monitors :P
especially since the one died this morning
 
@NickCraver yeah that is a cool project... been out of VS last several months though
 
@rchern Hahah, even with these I didn't have anywhere decent to put my speakers...I can only imagine the size of desk I'd need if they were that big. :P
 
@TimStone you liking those? considering a 22 or 24 vertical for messaging
@ElijahManor for shame!, what are you into now?
 
8:52 PM
6 upvotes in 20 minutes, I think you're loosing your touch there @NickCraver
 
@NickCraver Mostly all front-end stuff (jQuery/JavaScript). I use VS some on the side for MVC related articles. Use WebStorm these days for standard webdev stuff
 
@NickCraver Yeah, I like them a lot. The model first caught my eye since it was one of the few with DisplayPort at the time I bought them, and quality wise I have zero complaints so far.
 
yesterday, by Nick Craver
Disclaimer: I have no idea what I'm talking about
@ElijahManor how's the intellisense for JS?
 
@NickCraver pretty good. i like all the refactor stuff. made by same people who did VS Resharper (so there are many of those types of things, but for JavaScript & CSS)
 
@TimStone awesome, I need to take a look at the pixel density and see what it's like compared to my current
@ElijahManor ah cool, I didn't know jetbrains did any of that...haven't looked past r# really
 
8:55 PM
@NickCraver yea I starred it then too ;)
 
@NickCraver the IDE was written in Java so I can run it on my Mac or PC... there is a PHPStorm as well (but I don't do that... it is basically WebStorm w/ bunch of PHP features added)
 
VS not seeing $ inside (function($) { })(jQuery) is pretty annoying most times
oo, going to have to check that out this afternoon
 
:( it's not free? damnit ><
 

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