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5:14 AM
morning
 
5:33 AM
may I ask advice on winforms here ?
 
heyy
 
5:49 AM
ask, if someone knows he will answer it most likely
 
What is love?
 
There's a new TFS release candidate apparently...
Why? Why do they keep trying?
 
6:04 AM
Morning.
@TomW Because it keeps making money, I assume.
Because like many MS attempts at web services, it really is good enough. Not great, but good enough for conservative shops who want to stay in MS-land.
 
Hello, i want to persist data InMemory which will be accessed from multiple threads, i should create static ConcurrentDictionary?
 
I've worked in many projects over the years, with many combinations of source control and issue tracking. I've used source control better than TFS, and used issue trackers better than TFS, but I've never used a combined solution that was as effortless as TFS.
@QuietNaN That depends. Do you need to update from multiple threads or just read?
 
update, read and delete
 
@QuietNaN Also, do you need it accessible from many classes, or just different threads in the same class?
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan i am practicing Saga pattern, i have several bounded context which talk to saga, so i have to persist it and than restore to continue process, i have seen in NServiceBus sources that they use ConcurrentDictionary for inmemory persistence, thats why i ask
 
6:09 AM
Generally speaking, I'm leery of static members because of their inflexibility.
A ConcurrentDictionary is probably the right tool - it's lock-free on reads and has granular locks on write, so it's both thread-safe and relatively performant. It's the "one static dictionary to rule them all" approach that might be a problem.
Do you currently use any DI solution in your project?
 
StructureMap
 
In that case, I would probably create a class that wraps that dictionary - a MemoryStorage class or whatever - and register a single instance in StructureMap.
 
i am newbie practicing mostly, i am open to advices :P
ok than i ll create lets say SagaDataPersister, and gonna create its Singleton instance using StructureMap? did i get correctly?
 
Now any class that needs persistence can get a reference to the MemoryStorage class and call get/update/delete on it. It abstracts away the fact that it's a ConcurrentDictionary (maybe you'll want to add disk-based persistence in the future? Just add it there) while also allowing test code or alternate scenarios to replace the implementation.
 
yes atm i dont want to use db to persist sagas i just to do inMemory to finish example and test process
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan thank you mate
 
6:14 AM
@QuietNaN Yes, but if you want to do so in the future, you'll just have to update your SagaDataPersister class, without any other class caring about its internal implementation.
 
nailclippers with storage are awesome <3
 
@QuietNaN You're welcome. You might be a newbie, but you already see to have a solid grasp of some not-that-basic concepts.
 
@Proxy wtf.
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan thank you ;)
 
@Proxy Thank you for that.
I was just sitting here and wondering "What do other C# Room members do with their nail clippings and other unwanted bits of their anatomy"
 
6:17 AM
@JakobMillah well before i had a "normal" clipper so stuff was flying around, now i bought a new one with "storage" and its an improvement... you know stuff you wanted to have that is simple but yet you were unable to find it :)
 
I asked this question about 2 hours ago stackoverflow.com/questions/39092215/…
I still did not get any reply. So May I ask in this room
I am new, so I don't know if this is the correct place or not
 
@Proxy Never use clippers sadly... My restlessness and anxiety strikes on my nails pretty hard
 
powerful strike if its able to solve all your nail problems :P
 
Well, it's definitely not a good solution :)
 
Do we have stress issues now guys?
 
6:31 AM
Not really, just boredom after earning money from doing shiet for months ;)
But now I have some stuff to do: Patch the sinking boat before next man takes over after me
 
let it go, let it goo ..
 
Can't patch it anymore
 
@ElieSaad can't hold it back anymore
 
Such a lovely morning you guyysss
How is your day ..?
 
6:48 AM
it's ok
yours?
 
slept for 8 hours, feels like i was risen from the dead. So rusty ..
 
yeah
i got cramps this morning as well
for some reason i have them from time to time in the same spot when i wake up
 
u need some stretching my friend, some muscles are getting rekt. Or you just sleep badly for that particular position.
 
but its in my right leg... at least i walk a lot
the legs at least should be fine...
 
@ElieSaad We feel the same at the office today :P
@Proxy Walking can do that. Especially with wrong shoes
 
6:56 AM
You need to give some extra detail, talk it like a coding problem :P
@JakobMillah I think it's monday in disguise.
 
Indeed :P

Swedish Idol began yesterday... Most of the people that managed to grab a golden ticket were worse than the people I hung out with when I applied
Will be interesting to see who managed to snag a ticket in the city I applied.
 
@JakobMillah i'm just breaking down like a badly written program :P
 
@Proxy Too young for that boro!
 
you applied for idol :O
 
^^
 
6:59 AM
Yeah, I did haha
 
Jakob .. what did you do. You have skills?
 
I will probably do it again, since it was a great day :D
@ElieSaad Swedish Idol is singing only
 
All ** Idol is for singing only :P
what do you mean by a golden ticket? That got accepted?
 
Yeah, golden tickets == managed to get one step further
But yeah, I sing ^^ It was very spontaneous though. Managed to get past first step :) But yeah, the show is pretty BS
 
It's all about the people you know
 
7:03 AM
yep
 
Everything made marketable is BS
I watch shit from those shits.
 
haha
I love music, so that's why I am watching :P
 
Yeah we can see that :P
 
wut dat ..
I do not trust sudden downloads :P
 
7:08 AM
I have a user control in wpf
it is hosted in Winform
Now, I need to raise an event in winform control and listen to it in wpf user control. Is that possible?
 
@ElieSaad A guy checking if some psychics actually are psychics. From Reddit today :)
@arpit1611 I think not, but hey. Me no WPF guy. Listen in winforms and pass forward to wpf.
I think..
 
any sql tutorial that you guys would recommend?
 
sql basics or?
 
@JakobMillah Yeah. Actually I hosted a WPF ribbon in winform. And I want to change the ribbon's content according to the winform's requirements. So was confused.
 
sql, from basics to stored procedures to binding ( I know binding using EF )
I know a bit on sql basics, learned them some time ago, but didn't use them. So poof, they are gone :P
 
7:16 AM
if you are looking for some more advance stuff send me links as well i would like to know more about database optimization :P
but i could not find material
 
Don't know what there is to learn really. Just look up and learn Relational Database Design and you've come a long way. Or it's just me being naive
 
https://mva.microsoft.com/en-US/training-courses/querying-microsoft-sql-server-2012-databases-jump-start-8241?l=WFbhCtJy_7204984382
Is this good for after work?
http://www.tutorialspoint.com/sql/sql-rdbms-concepts.htm
Am gonna go and read all these shits for now
 
MVA is good shizzle so
 
That's not naive @JakobMillah. Learning about database design is the critical step, normalization forms are important but when you're designing you often reach the normalization form with sane design. Rule of thumb; make proper foreign keys, make indexes on columns you use for searching, and if you have a performance issue, profile it rather than guess.
 
@RoelvanUden Thanks. Yeah, my thoughts too. Then you have all the fluff if you are going with SQL server that is stored procedures and what not. Nothing I've worked with and something this company is moving away from, so not sure if it's useful or not
 
7:22 AM
roel you have any idea where i could learn about optimizing hughe databases
 
Also, o/
 
@JakobMillah stored procedures are for easier work imo ..
\o
 
@Proxy Sure, your database is the perfect place to start. Just identity slow queries using the profiler, look at their execution plan, and see if you can optimize the plan through indices and/or a different order of execution.
 
well i did that a bit but i'm talking about databases with over few millions records over a lot of tables
 
@JakobMillah Yes and no. It depends. If you want to put control on the application side, that's convenient for developers, source control integration, and a more direct line to the database. A large organization with a huge database, a dedicated (good!) DBA, and you will prefer stored procedures for every mutation the application can make. The constraints and rules would be managed by the DBA, and can be optimized/changed independently of the application.
 
7:26 AM
All depends on what data they contain, what kind of queries you are making. Sometimes more tables with less data is better than few tables with more data and vice versa. I still believe that splitting as much as possible using relational thinking is the way to go in all cases. Easy to administrate and add new stuff
@RoelvanUden I see, cool!
 
Oh, or if the db is approached by multiple programming languages ;-)
E.g. having all your validation in C# is cool, but that Java app must reproduce them all?!
 
I see
 
Does anyone here have experience with speeding up npm install during builds?
 
i was working a bit on a project where all the logic was implemented on database level, the win form were basically just s presentation
 
@Squiggle does npm cache packages?
 
7:31 AM
Morn all
 
I'm guessing it doesn't
otherwise this wouldn't exist, would it? github.com/swarajban/npm-cache
 
@RoelvanUden That's fun until the DBA quits :)
 
@StevenLiekens not by default. Plus, on our build server we do clean installs each time.
I'm looking at local cache, but the documentation is kinda fragmented
 
@scheien Never have a single point of failure :P
@Squiggle Why do you do clean installs every time? You can keep the dependencies around
 
Yep. I totally agree. Too many projects are too bound to a single individual. If that person quits or is unavailable for some reason everything halts.
 
7:34 AM
we don't use npm, but we do use nuget
 
@RoelvanUden we have different build agents
and the builds clean up after themselves
 
Can you not add a rule that leaves node_modules around?
 
won't that impact on other projects?
 
the way we cache nupkgs is by having a shared folder on our build server where we drop our nupks, and each project has a nuget.config file that looks in the shared folder before hitting nuget.org
can you do something similar with npm?
 
@Squiggle Aren't your node_modules installed locally? So, no.
 
7:37 AM
@StevenLiekens that's what I was thinking. Like I said, the documentation isn't so clear. Still reading up :) Just wondered if anyone had any experience here.
 
Private feeds? I think that's a paid option @StevenLiekens
 
yes the role I am in, there is 1 guy when he goes on holiday its just choas
 
@RoelvanUden sorry, I'm not quite following :(
 
you can turn any old folder into a private feed
even works using UNC path syntax
 
@Squiggle app1\node_modules and app2\node_modules are two different folders.
@StevenLiekens In NuGet, yes, in NPM, I think it's part of the "enterprise build"
 
7:38 AM
ohhhh
 
we have 4 TFS build agents handling ~6 different projects on any given day. Just looking for a way to cut down our build time.
in our current project, npm is the worst offender
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Hey can i have multiple events when i am working with sagas. Example: OrderPlaced (this one is used to notify by email), OrderPlaced_v2(this one is handled by saga)
to start next step e.g Billing
or Resrvation -> Billing
thanks
or it is better to have 1 Event and handle notification + next step command in Saga handler
 
7:58 AM
Ask yourself this - does the class raising the event care what is done with it order?
I mean, if I have to make the decision to throw EventA to do X or EventB to do Y, then I haven't really decoupled any logic here.
I don't know the specifics of your app, but I would expect the order placer to raise the OrderPlaced event, and have some sort of centralized workflow handler know which is the next step.
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan PlaceOrderCommand => OrderPlaced => NotifyCustomer => Saga Start Resrvation => StockReserved => Saga Start Billing => CustomerBilled => Start Delivery
OrderPlaced, StockReserved, CustomerBilled Handles OrderSaga
 
i got email notification in Service layer and i asked maybe i should move it into OrderSaga, Handle(OrderPlaced message)
 
@Proxy I want the totoro one :P
 
that one too :P
maybe 400 euro is a bit too much though
 
8:07 AM
It is..
 
more then half of the salary for snorlax
add the necessary food and i'm broke :)
 
That would be the most hilariously impractical gift ever
Particularly for someone with a small home
 
i.e. most Japanese people?
 
* in cities
 
Scaled down version of the stone head from the Simpsons
 
8:18 AM
Ahh, SpinWait.SpinUntil(). When you want your app to block infinitely, but without sucking up CPU cycles.
 
Wouldn't a simple wait handle or sleep do the same?
 
SpinUntil wraps a conditional check as well. SpinWait.SpinUntil(() => service.IsCompleted)
Instead of a loop with check var + sleep.
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan I felt I had to check that, as it didn't.sound right. Google results suggest that actually spinning is quite cpu intensive whereas sleep consumes very little
So I don't understand what you mean
 
Hmm, you might be right. It was in our codebase with a "instead of while(true)/sleep loop", but it's possible it was stupidly in our codebase.
 
A case of "well this is what everyone does, which must be wrong, whereas I, the smart developer, an smart and so will do it differently"
?
 
8:28 AM
Possibly.
 
does Thread.Sleep return it to the threadpool?
or how does pooling work
 
If you're running in a threadpool thread, then... maybe? Yes? I think?
 
It appears yes. Sleeping the thread will context switch, whereas spinming keeps the thread active by putting busywork on the cpu
 
If you're running on a dedicated thread or (gasp) the main UI thread, it just suspends.
 
According to stuff I have just seen for the first time now. Still researching, but that seems like the gist
 
8:34 AM
@TomW did u fix ur vs ?
 
I want to know if it's possible for a program to get a thread from the thread pool, let it sleep for some time, then crash because the thread can't resume for some reason (like running out of threads)
 
Hi
 
@Kob_24 no, have been busy with other things. A complete reinstall didn't work so I need to think about what to do now
 
I hate those pooling design patterns where even calling Dispose() doesn't actually free up resources but insteads causes the underlying object to be returned to a pool
I never know what's really going on
 
Hey Roel! just wanted to inform you that I have successfully implemented the stdout option, and its just 4 lines of code on python side :D took me a while to figure out
i will update my stackoverflow answer so that it could help others too
 
8:39 AM
\o/
@tourist congrats :)
 
did u install the latest updates?
 
@Squiggle thanks to you guys for directing me ;)
 
i hade this issue before. i removed everything, all files from C and then reinstalled it with the latest updates
its working fine now
 
@tourist does it feel like a good solution?
 
it does, i have implemented both already - socket + stdin/stdout.
stdin/stdout seems much optmised as i dont have to run my C# application additionally + easy to debug
 
8:43 AM
guys, what font are you using in visual studio? standard consolas?
 
Papyrus
 
comic sans
because this job is a joke
 
default :D
 
Consolas works for me. I have a friend who started using FiraCode and seems to like its ligatures.
Seems like they might take getting used to.
Although he just tweeted that the ligatures helped him understand the logic of Haskell's bind operator.
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan I just looked - they have a ligature for www :-/
 
8:47 AM
@tourist \o/ congratulations
The standard input/out streams should be really good and performant.
Do note that you can also pipe them independently now ;-)
csharptool.exe > pythontool.exe
 
or re-use it, like, csharptool.exe > somefile.dat and then reuse that dump pythontool.exe < somefile.dat. Power of standard streams.
 
interesting @AvnerShahar-Kashtan
 
@Squiggle are you for real using papyrus?
 
@ElieSaad ...no
 
8:53 AM
missed another pun, great.
even tho it looks pretty badass :P
 
My current status:
 
That seems like a good status!
 
Which would you identify yourself with @Squiggle?
 
Shotgun the guy in the back for me.
 
probably the guy on the left
 
8:59 AM
@RoelvanUden good to know, it seems really useful. i will update my stackoverflow question soon and will inform you about that :)
 
my neck isn't rubbery enough to be Jim
 
so .. who's driving us @Squiggle?
 

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