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4:03 PM
@mikeTheLiar Heard that when you finally get that working it's one of the better macros. Not "Retrieve Alcohol" or "Retrieve Coffee" good but still pretty good
 
Update: My queued build failed. I'm now back to #5 in line.
 
@KendallFrey Estimated wait time?
 
JS pisses me off
it seems no one on SO is good at it
myself being no exception
 
@KendallFrey if only there was some architectural paradigm that was both popular and effective that could adapt to varying demand in some way
 
@JABFreeware Well duh silly head. It's not possible to be good at it. That's half the point of Javascript
 
4:09 PM
Its so people can have jobs
 
@Griffin I just want ng-model in angular to work the way it does on simpler data...
 
If JavaScript made sense and was easy, everything would have been automated already and we couldn't pay bills.
 
I know...
 
Imagine how many jobs would be lost if shit made sense
It would destroy the American dream for millions
 
so don't complain to loudly... I mean... without C++ I would be shoveling shit.
 
4:10 PM
Probably a good bit
 
same with M$... I wouldn't have a job without them
 
but sometimes I think the writers were smoking crack while simultaneously drinking bleach
 
@Darkrifts I'd say over a 1/3 of the programming work force at least.
 
things that should work don't
 
Hey, anyone here wanna help test a core war style thing?
 
4:11 PM
C# makes sense. C# is beautiful. JS is ugly and unpredictable
 
What about Java :P
 
@Darkrifts We try to avoid using naughty words here...
 
lol
 
@Darkrifts tell me... I've build a machine for a variant on it
 
Insecure and like insecure people it tends to get anxiety when its needed most and slow to a crawl
 
4:12 PM
with explicit N way split/splice command
 
@JABFreeware Javascript and Python smell fear
@JABFreeware If you're at all worried about what you're doing they eat you alive. But COCKY ASS KYLE can face roll his keyboard and because he believes it will work it does.
 
Does anyone know if it is possible to Initialize a Database as a 'Other User'?
 
I can't believe I'm arguing pointers, PC's and offsets with someone I assumed would be a senior developer. Why does it matter if I use an array or a pointer to the first element? It doesn't make the code any more readable
 
@Griffin That just sounds wrong
JavaScript is the most supported language on the planet
 
@Griffin I find this more hilarious than I should. The monstrosities of languages I've made only work if you don't expect them to, because math
 
4:16 PM
It's not like C stores the length of the array automagically
 
if I was going to write a virus, it would totally be in JavaScript @Sippy
 
You can write anything with JavaScript regardless of how much you suck
 
Give or take some effort :P
 
Cos stackoverflow is 80% jQuery, 10% javascript and 10% other shit
 
Yes, cosine stackoverflow @Sippy
 
4:17 PM
@Griffin Well, 38m*5 = 3:20
 
The mastermind of SO predicted that everything that can be written in JavaScript will eventually be written in JavaScript e.g. Office
 
@Griffin ptttfff this pathetic js code doesnt scare me. Its nothing. I could kill it in my sleep. Im just playing with it
gotta make it feel like its got a chance
like a cat with a mouse
 
@JABFreeware Faking it will only make it worse
 
Man I've been here 10 seconds and I already wanna kick you moon
 
@MoonOwl22 I know someone... who implemented native COM... in JavaScript
 
4:18 PM
@Griffin THEN HOW DO I WIN?
 
so he can open XL* sheets
 
@Sippy me?
 
You dont @JABFreeware
 
@JABFreeware You don't.
 
@Sippy Why
 
4:18 PM
fuck me
 
Griffinpls
Hey JAB, wanna help test a worse language to actually get working than JavaScript?
 
Shit b chatted 24/7.
 
orly
 
@Darkrifts what is it?
 
@JABFreeware Or you play Screeps until you're #1 and then you become Javascript god
 
4:19 PM
It's especially junky when I'm on :D
 
@roscoe_casita He is a ninja
 
@JABFreeware This monstrosity
It also has a core warfare environment up :P
 
@roscoe_casita I've used COM in JS quite a bit
That used to be my job
 
@MoonOwl22 aye, we built a NASDAQ ITCH/OUCH simulator together, anyways
 
@Griffin I played the tank bots battle game Johan wrote a few years ago. I found I spent WAAAAAY too much time. Its addictive and time flies but I felt like a failure wasting time because I was so slow
 
4:20 PM
@KendallFrey Ouch... I deal with C++ COM, how is the JS side?
 
and my tanks were buggy
 
@roscoe_casita Um... meh?
 
@Darkrifts thats disgusting
 
Wanna help test Fos-x corewar?
 
@Darkrifts ... tell me...
 
4:21 PM
@Sippy If having support for a lot of systems makes you a good programming language then I think assembly wins? Maybe?
 
@roscoe_casita Tell you what?
 
Do you think it was a good idea to have CLI/C++?
 
Corewar is fascinating because of the SPL/SPI commands, its actually mirroring some abstraction of CUDA cores now
 
@Darkrifts "This is a standard for developing for the FOS system so you can create compilers for other languages to develop with." First sentence and I'm already done.
 
@Griffin Can't think of the word, you know what I meant.
 
4:22 PM
@Griffin That would make Java the best language, which is false
 
LISP FTW.
 
Python is a face-rollable language too.
 
just implement your LISP interpreter in assembly first... and then you have portable code!
 
Just not used enough to get hate
 
int a = kernel.stack.pop();
kernel.stack.push(a * a);
break;
 
4:23 PM
int a = kendall.stack.pop();kendall.stack.push(a * a);
 
Apparently this decides it wants to raise ^4 instead of ^2. Any idea why?
 
I wonder why we didn't do any concurrency in assembly
 
I need to look into this
 
@MoonOwl22 was that to me? CLI/C++? yes, it was key to getting C# buy in
 
@roscoe_casita Yes.
 
4:25 PM
@MoonOwl22 hasn't really been invented yet (no native assembly ops to start new threads .. which propagate to higher level languages), hence my fascination with SPL/SPI in corewar.
 
I think Microsoft should just make sure that they are up to par with the standard
Wait...
 
@Sippy Dem Kendall stacks doe
 
So what does the compiled result of concurrent code look like if there are no ops for that @roscoe_casita
 
@Sippy don't push me
 
second
 
4:27 PM
Technically I only pushed your stack
 
user47589
You can only pull on Kendall, not push.
 
your invoking the OS
 
to modify the list of threads, and add your thread
the next time the timer interrupt ISR fires, it pushes your thread into the registers and returns from interrupt
magic now your new thread is running
 
such an epic song
 
4:29 PM
6
Q: How is concurrency done in Intel x86 assembly?

TowerI'm curious to know how one would code concurrent software on Intel x86 assembly. Both threads or coroutines with yielding are interesting. I realize this isn't practical to do in assembly, but I'm just curious.

 
@Amy can we checkout him?
 
War
@NeilNorris hehe ... got there in the end huh?
 
user47589
you can check him out, but if he catches you looking, he'll start throwing exceptions. so be circumspect.
 
In principle it's simple, you just set the IP (instruction pointer) register of the CPU to where you want it to start running.
"" from comment in answer
 
@Amy circum what?
 
4:31 PM
Spect
 
@roscoe_casita what the fuuuuuuuuu
 
user47589
use a dictionary.
 
Or google
Or Cap
Or any one of literally dozens of options to find out what a word means
!!define circumspect
 
@mikeTheLiar [circumspect](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki?curid=67904) Carefully aware of all circumstances; considerate of all that is pertinent.
Being aware of the danger of upsetting her audience, she was somewhat circumspect in her comments.
 
4:32 PM
@roscoe_casita I think I get why it's unnecessary to have native ops if you already have access to the CPU cores
 
writing the routines to take a single execute engine, into a simulated many execute core (aka preemptive multi-tasking) is ... dark and black magic
 
!!define asshole
 
@JABFreeware asshole (vulgar) The anus.
 
vulgar lol
 
@roscoe_casita Concurrent sorting is something you might enjoy
 
4:33 PM
@MoonOwl22 sure, if you have an execute engine, you can implement a software package to 'simulate' multiple points of entry
but native ops are far superior ...
 
@roscoe_casita are you a wizard
 
course you need to redesign your cpu arch then
@TomW I make no such claims.
 
@KendallFrey Me trying to test what you said about 38m*5 ..... Attempt 9 jsfiddle.net/b2gcvxhs/8
Still doesn't work
 
JS doesn't support dimensional variables, duh
 
@roscoe_casita I need to buy me a few multicore CPU's to play with
 
4:36 PM
@KendallFrey I copied pastad off W3C and replaces the text with 38m*5 and then tried doing 38m*5 as a variable.
 
@MoonOwl22 check out CUDA,
 
@roscoe_casita I will let you know of the results of my investigation
 
its far closer to what you want, but basically you're still making a software / firmware interpreter for OPS
that or Erlang
 
@roscoe_casita I tried to do some reading the other day about instruction pipelines, and how waits etc are implemented
+ instruction reordering + blahblah
It lost me fairly quickly
 
@TomW yeah, pipelining prediction ... not my cup of tea either
 
4:38 PM
<< did not take CS
 
All the cool kids are superscalar these days.
 
@roscoe_casita I have been wanting to learn Erlang but haven't found the time
 
me either, I'm a SE/HE
@MoonOwl22 they solve the lock problem
there are no locks!
only solution: immutable memory... which makes sense.
 
From what I understand, Go learnt its concurrency from Erlang
 
it runs the backbone of the internet, so I would suspect it did =)
and you know where Erlang got its concurrency?
LISP <3
 
4:40 PM
wizards
 
Lisp?
OMG
 
call/CC
 
I understand Lisp is the granddaddy of a lot of "modern" things
 
I should learn LISP
 
((((LISP))))
 
4:40 PM
@KendallFrey you should program enough in it, that you 'get' it
 
@Griffin but that
 
when you generate some code on the fly and execute it... the world changes a little bit
 
@KendallFrey You shouldn't. In your hands, the world would be forced to bow down
I first learnt metalinguistic programming with Lisp
 
when you hack the execution tree at runtime...
or evaluate the values of expressions... before you run the program
 
@MoonOwl22 that's like reflection, right?
 
4:42 PM
Lisp exists on a higher level than reflection.
 
symbols vs pointers @KendallFrey
 
user47589
LISP transforms are amazing.
 
user47589
Scheme transforms are slightly less powerful, but cleaner and easier to write.
 
you need cell/object/type information embedded in every struct in the system to do that
 
@KendallFrey Kind of but in Lisp it's more than just that
 
4:43 PM
All I know about LISP is that it's a super simple language
@MoonOwl22 right
 
second... there are two pieces of lisp code which should blow your mind
 
user47589
its been too long, i can't remember the code for creating a syntax transform anymore :(
 
Lisp was a highlight into what computer science could achieve
 
(transform syntax (this that) )
 
@roscoe_casita I made a remark to that effect in Lounge<C++> once. Nobody was very impressed
About being able to modify how dispatching of methods worked at runtime
 
4:44 PM
you can do that in C++ as well
you can't generate new compiled code and execute it
you can get access to the Vtable in C++, and modify the function pointer
 
but you're not going to gen asm and jump to it
 
I think at the time I was actually thinking of malicious modification
 
well... you can
 
OK what's one step down from malicious
Not intending to do actual harm, but definitely to mess with people's heads
 
If I'm not mistaken, CommonLisp was the first standardised object-oriented programming language
 
^^ highly recommend that book
every new 'modern' language feature,... was implemented in lisp 20 years ago.
 
@roscoe_casita What's your take on Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs?
 
its good
not as good as this book though ^^
you have to be at a certain level to understand SICP
 
On a ranking of importance for a computer science student, how would you rate it?
 
4:47 PM
eventually? essential.
you need to write a compiler & interpreter... so you can understand why you never write a compiler & interpreter.
 
We are doing lambda calculus two weeks from now
 
I have some code you might want
 
lol 25% of reviews are 1 star
spot the contingent who didn't understand it
 
it does fully symbolic lambda calc
 
Please link it away
 
4:49 PM
I proved 0+1-1 = 09
er... 0 + 1 - 1 = 0
without numbers.
searching
 
Please elaborate
 
using lamba calc / set notation, you can implement the concept of '+'
 
I implemented the surreals in Haskell not too long ago
It wasn't practical though
infinite sets and all
 
oooo... tell me
 
tell you what
 
4:52 PM
./shrug, I have a passion for knowledge... what did you learn that was a valuable insight?
 
Umm
Surreals are hard to use in computers?
 
I'm back from my internet crashing
 
what if surreals don't exist?
 
@roscoe_casita They do though
 
> BOY I TELL YOU HWHAT
 
4:54 PM
@roscoe_casita What would you say is the modern equivalent of Lisp today
 
is it better to represent them as a number... or as a series of functions
 
0A/0A would spell check again
 
@roscoe_casita It is clear you have no idea what the surreals are
 
Isn't Lisp the modern equivalent of Lisp?
It's not like it went away.
 
I'm looking at them now @KendallFrey no, I'm not 'familiar' with them exactly.
 
What are "surreal numbers" anyway?
 
@Darkrifts ^^
 
thanks
so
 
The surreal numbers are kind of an extension of the reals, with infinity and infinitesimals
 
familiar with grammars?
 
4:57 PM
There are an infinite number of surreal numbers between zero and the smallest positive real number
@roscoe_casita I've worked with them a bit, why?
 
so... they are a 'meta' encoding... they describe another encoding.
but you can encode... the grammar... meta encoding... in a grammar
THE GRAMMAR GRAMMAR!
and it will parse itself.
 
CALL THE GRAMMAR NAZIS, THEY WELL HELP
 
Yeah, you can write a grammar for EBNF in EBNF
I imagine you can write a regex for regex
I should do that
 

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